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View Full Version : What would you shoot here? (8-ball)


Celtic
06-20-2009, 01:11 AM
Curious what most people would do here, you are stripes, your opponent left you here with a safety.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AVXl2BNsf2CLnm2DTAC2EBaV1FHvY2GQVI2HBKk2KVcR2PE FW2cBKk2cAtk2kEFW2kEFV@

On a Valley 7 foot, your opponent is up 4-2 race to 5 alternate break and it is their break next in a match worth $300.

This was my last turn at the table this year in the VNEA singles.

BRKNRUN
06-20-2009, 01:28 AM
You are supposed to lose if you end up in this position....but you do have easy two rail kick to hit the 11.

I would kick two rails behind the 11...calling it in the lower left corner pocket....and hope that I both make the ball 1-100 (or so) shot...AND hope the the CB lands in a position that gives me a shot in the lower right hand pocket....

Most probable outcomes....(I hit the 11 every time)....I miss the 11 and end up with perfect shape on the 8...........or I make the 11 and end up stone hooked on the 8.....or I make the 11 and get perfect shape on the 8, but since I misjuged the kick I end up making the 11 in the UPPER left corner pocket.


The other option is the long kick (either 1 or two rails) and try two make the 11 (or hang the 11) in the upper right hand corner pocket.

(I would opt for the first option as I can measure up and have more control on the accuracy of the hit on the 11 via the shorter kick)

TX Poolnut
06-20-2009, 06:59 AM
You're in deep doo doo.

Call the lower left pocket, two-rail below the 11-ball, and pray like you've never prayed before.

senor
06-20-2009, 07:31 AM
I like the one rail kick for a couple of reasons. I think you'll make it more often than the two rail kick, and if the cue ball speed is right, it appears you'll have a shot at the 8 ball. The other reason I like the shot is because if missed, it could block the pocket for your opponent and/or tie up a ball and possibly get you another chance at the table.

At the same time there are reasons I don't like the two railer. Although it is obviously easier to hit, moving the 11 to the other side of the table will make winning easier for your opponent. First, it moves the 11 completely out of the way and all of your opponents object balls will have a clear path. Also, if the 11 finds the bottom rail, your opponent doesn't even have to completely hook you to leave you an in an unenviable position.

Double-Dave
06-20-2009, 07:49 AM
I would probably make a foul by playing the 3 towards the rail just below the center pocket and try and tie up the 7 and 11 on the same rail aswell.

gr. Dave

ArizonaPete
06-20-2009, 07:56 AM
I'd go for the long rail kick to make the eleven. Hit slow, if the eleven goes, then the cue ball will ease between the 4 and 2 ball and end up either on or near the cushion for the eight in the side. If you miss and the cue ball is on the cushion, he's got a tough shot to make. By the way, I assume this happened in a match, what did you do?

Ironman317
06-20-2009, 08:29 AM
i think i would push the 8 towards the one and try and tie them up. it's not a simple out even with ball in hand with the 11 there. it's a bad spot for sure, but i would take my chances here and hope i get another shot in a better situation.

PoolSharkAllen
06-20-2009, 09:16 AM
The chances of pocketing the 11 with a one or two rail kick and then getting decent position on the 8 are very slim. So the next best option is to play a strong safe.

I would call a safety and play a one-rail kick shot on the 11 with medium speed. With some luck, you'll either pocket the 11 or leave it hanging near the upper right corner pocket. After the cue ball hits the 11, it should hopefully roll up close to the 4 leaving solids with no good shot or a very difficult layout to run out.

poolplayer2093
06-20-2009, 09:45 AM
i think you have to go for the 11 kicking 2 rails. you have to get a little lucky but that's your only chance of winning the game from that position.

tying something up isn't going to do you any good because he could play safe shooting a ball into what ever you tied up and put you back in the same position

Patrick Johnson
06-20-2009, 10:10 AM
..........

Celtic
06-20-2009, 11:13 AM
what did you do?

It got called right quick. I played the 2 rail kick into the lower left hand corner, the path of the cueball off the kick sending it into the 2 ball and leaving me a cut on the 8 in the lower side pocket.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AVXl2BNsf2CLnm2DTAC2EBaV1FHvY2GQVI2HBKk2KVcR2PE Vb2QQNd2VNsf1VGJx1VGay2cBKk4cdxB4cevB2fVcR4fcYr4fc xv2kEVb2kSbq2kbRw2kVsb2kQFd2lQNd2lDGw2lCht@

Then he broke and ran a tough rack to win the set.

The safety might have worked against some people, not this guy though, he played very well and very smart.

grindz
06-20-2009, 11:18 AM
Curious what most people would do here, you are stripes, your opponent left you here with a safety.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AVXl2BNsf2CLnm2DTAC2EBaV1FHvY2GQVI2HBKk2KVcR2PE FW2cBKk2cAtk2kEFW2kEFV@

On a Valley 7 foot, your opponent is up 4-2 race to 5 alternate break and it is their break next in a match worth $300.

This was my last turn at the table this year in the VNEA singles.

If you're a good kicker.... gotta go with the 2 rail (short then long) to play in top right corner... you have help with the 4. If you aren't then play the 7-11 combo to leave the 11 on the 4 and between it and the pocket. Then pray...... If he/she bunts back a safe, try and cluster 2 other balls.
If not comfortable with above, then 2 rail (right then top) behind the 11 hitting top edge and drift CB up table (to the right) and leave some longer shots with the 11 still in the cluster.

JMO, what did you do??

td

Ooops ....too late.... you've already answered.

dabarbr
06-20-2009, 07:19 PM
Against any decent player any safety or giving up ball in hand is most likely a sure loss. You need to go for the win right now.

The two rail kick from the short rail to the long rail is too much of a long shot even for good kickers. And even if it went there is not much chance for shape on the eight.

IMO the one rail kick gives the best chance to pocket your ball. Because the ball is so close to the pocket just by hitting it and driving it forward it has a good chance because the pocket occupies so much of that area. The cue ball may slide between his two balls and position itself for a shot on the eight.

With fair speed, if you don't pocket your ball, you may also lay your ball up to control that pocket and limit access to that pocket. No matter what you select you are on the short end of this.

P.S. or you can just shoot the eight into the side pocket and put yourself out of misery.

Craig Fales
06-20-2009, 07:28 PM
Just rake the balls and say "Nice shot." j/k...the kick down and back sounds like your only option.

CreeDo
06-21-2009, 05:02 PM
I'm surprised nobody mentioned this? You do your best to hit the upper half of the 11 somewhat thin. I know it's asking a lot but it's the best option because it gives you 2 chances to win. You leave distance with the cue ball, and the 11 goes into the middle of several solids and hopefully ties something up.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AVXm2BNsf2CLnm2DTAC2EBaV1FHvY2GQVI2HAtk2KVcR2PE FV2fVcR2fRsV2fQVf2kEFV2kSjk2kbJq2kXwQ3kRdl3kQFu@

sixpack
06-21-2009, 05:22 PM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AVXl2BNsf2CLnm2DTAC2EBaV1FHvY2GQVI2HBKk2KVcR2PE FW2cBKk2cAtk2fVcR2fRsf2kEFW3kQWq2kbgP2kXoO2kbay2kV tn2kUGR@

I think the other kicks are losers even if they are succesful exactly as planned.

Hit a little harder than lag speed with a touch (just a touch, no more) of running (right) english.
This kick gives you a better chance to win in every case. If you graze the 11 it moves the 11 into traffic and blocks your opponent's balls. It also puts the CB in a good spot.

If you hit the 11 too full, then it might block the pocket and put the CB in the trouble.

It's possible to leave a makeable shot with this kick, and, of course giving up BIH is death. But this is how I would shoot it.

~rc

Neil
06-21-2009, 07:09 PM
...............

chin0
06-21-2009, 07:25 PM
I would shoot mace into my opponents eye, grab the stash and dash lol, jk. I like the two rail as well. The one rail might be an option as well. Personally I would've went for the one rail.

CreeDo
06-22-2009, 09:02 AM
That looks good for THAT turn. But, think ahead a little... what do you think he is going to do to you when you do that?? Odds are, you will be giving up ball in hand after your next turn at the table. You really have no choice but to try and make the 11, or at least get it out where you can make it if he happens to screw up enough to miss and leave you something.

so you're saying your position might be basically the same, or it might have improved. It certainly won't be any worse unless he's fairly lucky and freezes you against something.

I don't like trying to make it, there is a much larger margin for error on the kick safety (like you can hit it too full and have the CB skip to the long rail) than there is for making it AND getting the cue ball to fall in that window on the 8, which is 1 in a zillion.

Give your opponent enough rope to hang himself. Forget that stuff about going down swinging or 'don't sell out on a false safety'. What's more likely? An impossible dream flyer goes in with shape and you win? Or the opponent dogs his shot/safe attempt because he's 6-7 feet away from the nearest object ball?

blah blah
06-22-2009, 09:16 AM
I love AZB. All of the different ideas, viewpoints, jokes, bantering. Every post here made my Monday morning a little brighter. : )

And Celtic- props for getting out from there!

sixpack
06-22-2009, 09:34 AM
so you're saying your position might be basically the same, or it might have improved. It certainly won't be any worse unless he's fairly lucky and freezes you against something.

I don't like trying to make it, there is a much larger margin for error on the kick safety (like you can hit it too full and have the CB skip to the long rail) than there is for making it AND getting the cue ball to fall in that window on the 8, which is 1 in a zillion.

Give your opponent enough rope to hang himself. Forget that stuff about going down swinging or 'don't sell out on a false safety'. What's more likely? An impossible dream flyer goes in with shape and you win? Or the opponent dogs his shot/safe attempt because he's 6-7 feet away from the nearest object ball?

I think you make a great point Creedo. I think that this is definitely one of those game situations where you play your opponent and not just the table. If I'm playing someone who probably can't get out, then I just want to get the 11 out of there and take my chances. If I'm playing a player who runs out constantly then I probably try to make it. If I am playing someone who can run out an open table then I play the shot I diagrammed above and take my chances that they'll mess up a risky break out.

~rc

ajohnson13
06-22-2009, 09:37 AM
Here is my hail mary shot!!

<iframe src="http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@4AVXl2BNsf2CLnm2DTAC2EBaV1FHvY2GQVI2HBKk2KVcR2PE FW2cBKk2cAtk2fVcR2fcAr2fcAs2kEFW3kbHo3kTQk3kaxa2kU VE2kNEk2kHGB@" noresize="noresize" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" frameborder="no" width="600" height="400" ></iframe>

alstl
06-22-2009, 09:56 AM
You are in trouble if you are playing a decent player. I would try two rails under the four and try to leave the cue ball downtable and hope I get back to the table.

Patrick Johnson
06-22-2009, 10:11 AM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AVXl2BNsf2CLnm2DTAC2EBaV1FHvY2GQVI2HBKk2KVcR2PE FW2cBKk2cAtk2fVcR2fRsf2kEFW3kQWq2kbgP2kXoO2kbay2kV tn2kUGR@

I think the other kicks are losers even if they are succesful exactly as planned.

Hit a little harder than lag speed with a touch (just a touch, no more) of running (right) english.
This kick gives you a better chance to win in every case. If you graze the 11 it moves the 11 into traffic and blocks your opponent's balls. It also puts the CB in a good spot.

If you hit the 11 too full, then it might block the pocket and put the CB in the trouble.

It's possible to leave a makeable shot with this kick, and, of course giving up BIH is death. But this is how I would shoot it.

~rc

Hey Regas, where you been? Haven't seen you around Pressure in awhile...

I have a couple of concerns with your choice of shots and the way you say to shoot it:

1. Shot choice: Kicking into the back side of the 11 makes that corner pocket loom pretty large for a scratch. I'd say there's a better chance of scratching than of getting safe.

2. Execution: If I did shoot your shot I wouldn't try to add any running english - the kick angle is so steep that almost none is needed and it will almost certainly be overdone.

However, I do like your choice of going one rail off the far end better than going two rails off the near end. More precision is possible and there's a realistic chance of making it.

pj
chgo

Neil
06-22-2009, 11:39 AM
.................

sixpack
06-22-2009, 11:50 AM
Hey Regas, where you been? Haven't seen you around Pressure in awhile...

I have a couple of concerns with your choice of shots and the way you say to shoot it:

1. Shot choice: Kicking into the back side of the 11 makes that corner pocket loom pretty large for a scratch. I'd say there's a better chance of scratching than of getting safe.

2. Execution: If I did shoot your shot I wouldn't try to add any running english - the kick angle is so steep that almost none is needed and it will almost certainly be overdone.

However, I do like your choice of going one rail off the far end better than going two rails off the near end. More precision is possible and there's a realistic chance of making it.

pj
chgo

LOL! The only reason I would put running on it AT ALL is to offset the humidity and sticky rails at pressure. I'm not talking running english, just a TAD of NOT LEFT to make sure you don't stick it into the rail and get a bad hit on the solid.

I disagree about the scratch. On a barbox with a heavy cueball, yes, but on a 9 footer, I think MOST of the time you're okay as long as you make sure to hit the 2nd rail far enough up.

I'm back in Cali now for a few weeks or so. Every day I was in Chicago the last month or so I worked 10-12 hrs ending after 9 p.m. By the time I made some dinner I didn't get over there until 11 or so and then I usually had so much work to do that I just sat there and worked in the cafe.

Next time I come back though I should have more time as the busy season is over.

~rc

Ponytail
06-22-2009, 12:01 PM
When the safe is as hard as the shot... always go for the shot.

Two rail it under the 4, or one rail it from the head rail and see if you can catch a roll.

Chances are really low, but even if you get safe on this shot, he'll just hook you again. You're not in a good spot, and that's just they way it is..

Big Perm
06-22-2009, 12:09 PM
I'd go for it.....go for the long bank, kick in the 11....if I make it, I should be able to see the 8....on a 7 footer, this shot is easier than it looks.....his balls are clustered a bit, so even a legal hit may not just leave an easy out....

Didn't read any of the responses yet, so this may have already been said...

mia
06-22-2009, 12:34 PM
Here is my hail mary shot!!

<iframe src="http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@4AVXl2BNsf2CLnm2DTAC2EBaV1FHvY2GQVI2HBKk2KVcR2PE FW2cBKk2cAtk2fVcR2fcAr2fcAs2kEFW3kbHo3kTQk3kaxa2kU VE2kNEk2kHGB@" noresize="noresize" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" frameborder="no" width="600" height="400" ></iframe>

This seems to me like the only real shot you have. And any C player or better should be able to pull this off no problem. Lol.




In all honesty, I would play the one rail kick, length of the table. Just make sure you make the hit because if you do and you DON'T make the shot (not likely that you will) you could leave the 11 in front of the pocket or at least between the pocket and the 4 on the rail.

Two rails would mean having to give your stroke a little muscle to make sure something hits the rail. And all that would do is open up your opponent's clutter a little and make getting out easier for him.

Playing safe is too hard. Your best bet safety-wise is the tie the 1 and the 8 up, but with that much room between the too, your touch would have to be PERFECT. Tying the 8 up with any other ball is not an option. With 5 other balls in the vicinty, the breakout would be easy for your opponent, especially coming to the table with ball in hand.

1 rail kick. Length of the table. Seems like the only smart option here.

CreeDo
06-23-2009, 09:19 PM
Creedo: Here's the probable result of your shot, and just one option of what I could/would easily do next. What are you going to do from there??


Not a happy place, I'll admit. Continue laying out rope and hope the opponent screws up trying to break 'em up and runout. Hope he'll eventually at least leave a reasonable kick safe.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXKH2BANw2CLnm2DTAC2EBaV1FHvY2GQVI2HAtk2KOBe4PY RO2cAtk2cNcM4kYRO1kBSb1kGBx@

2_Fast_4_Fleas
08-07-2009, 09:14 AM
excellent reply i was looking at the same thing until i realized i couldnt figure out how to move the lines on the table...lol

randyg
08-07-2009, 09:59 AM
Just enough room for a three-rail kick. Play the 8-Ball in the side/corner pocket.....SPF=randyg

Sensation
08-07-2009, 11:22 AM
What CreeDo says.

bradsh98
08-07-2009, 11:51 AM
I'd kick myself directly in the ass for running 6 balls and missing the 11 ball, leaving my opponent with 8 balls on the table to play safe with...

But that's just me..

In this situation, the only probable outcome is that your opponent will win this rack... Playing to make the 11 ball is not a high percentage shot. You could give up ball in hand by trying to tie some stuff up, but he does have 7 balls on the table.. The odds are in his favor any way you look at it.

Ponytail
08-07-2009, 12:11 PM
Oh.. that's easy....

You jump the 2, 7, into the 11, which hops into the rail, jumping over the two back into the corner pocket, and the cue ball drifts up to the 3rd diamond to shoot the 8 in the same corner..

no problems.

What?!?! you wouldn't play it that way?


*Please put on your boots.. it's gettin' deep :rotflmao1:

8ball-alex
08-07-2009, 01:46 PM
I think i would have shot the 7 in the 11, so the 11ball will block for the solids in that corner, and the 7 lies in to the side rail.