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View Full Version : Will BCA lose more money to players switching leagues than it costs to replace balls?


Luxury
06-22-2009, 05:36 PM
FYI: this thread is over three years old. It was bumped by someone that didn't take constructive criticism very well. Wanted to remind me that my polls aren't perfect either.

I in fact criticized this poll as well at the time I made it lol :)

The issue of banning phenolic tips was reversed as I predicted so all is well. Thanks.

derekdisco
06-22-2009, 05:53 PM
I'm quite certain that they will lose more money than they were paying for balls. I know they lost business from me. Bad business IMO.

I'd pay for a new set of balls every week if we had bca instead of apa.

SpiderWebComm
06-22-2009, 06:19 PM
I don't play in leagues but I'm not sure what the big deal is. If you can't use phenolic and no one else can either - how does it affect your game or the outcome?

I'm not a league type of guy, but if I did play in a league - it would be a BCAPL league. The other leagues seem to have retarded rules, imo. So what's worse? Not being able to use a phenolic tip or to play in a league with stupid rules? I'd break with my playing cue before playing in a league where slop counts, you have to mark a pocket, no ball in hand, etc.

Don't you have to own a pocket-chalker before the APA lets you in?

cbi1000
06-22-2009, 06:29 PM
I don't play in leagues but I'm not sure what the big deal is. If you can't use phenolic and no one else can either - how does it affect your game or the outcome?

I'm not a league type of guy, but if I did play in a league - it would be a BCA league. The other leagues seem to have retarded rules, imo. So what's worse? Not being able to use a phenolic tip or to play in a league with stupid rules? I'd break with my playing cue before playing in a league where slop counts, you have to mark a pocket, no ball in hand, etc.

Don't you have to own a pocket-chalker before the APA lets you in?


TAP TAP TAP - I agree 100%

Luxury
06-22-2009, 06:55 PM
Well I had plans of playing in vegas and Lincoln city but I love my bk2 and don't want to alter my tip or buy a different cue that I don't want to play with so I will go when they figure it out and remove the ban which I'm sure will be soon.

Visualize how angry players are going to get when told at the event that they can't use their break cue. Those guys probably won't come back. You ate going to lose money BCA and I don't think you thought this through.

cbi1000
06-22-2009, 07:16 PM
Well I had plans of playing in vegas and Lincoln city but I love my bk2 and don't want to alter my tip or buy a different cue that I don't want to play with so I will go when they figure it out and remove the ban which I'm sure will be soon.

Visualize how angry players are going to get when told at the event that they can't use their break cue. Those guys probably won't come back. You ate going to lose money BCA and I don't think you thought this through.

Before you start freaking out you might want to do a little research first.

You need to contact the Western BCA to find out what rules they are going to follow @ Lincoln city. Western BCA has been famous for doing what they want. Some national rules they follow and some they don't. At this time Western BCA has not ruled on this matter.

One last thing, i've brought this up to my local league rep to find out when the Western BCA will be ruling on this, and like all things they do they have no idea.

Good luck.

bullshooter69
06-22-2009, 07:21 PM
Well I had plans of playing in vegas and Lincoln city but I love my bk2 and don't want to alter my tip or buy a different cue that I don't want to play with so I will go when they figure it out and remove the ban which I'm sure will be soon.

Visualize how angry players are going to get when told at the event that they can't use their break cue. Those guys probably won't come back. You ate going to lose money BCA and I don't think you thought this through.

What did you do before phenolic. You do know that the guy you will be playing doesn"t have phenolic also. I have phenolic on my cues i installed myself. I welcome the change. I am sorry that you want to quit the BCA. I had a chance to try out the yet to be released OB-1 Break cue i was impressed it also has a leather tip and i could not tell the differance in it and my break cue. The jump shaft they are building is the best i ever hit with. I dont believe the BCA will change back.

akaTrigger
06-22-2009, 07:27 PM
I am shocked people would quit a great league because they can't use a certain tip. It makes me wonder what I have been missing by not ever using/trying the banned tip. A lot people seem quite upset about this and I admittedly do not understand.

However, the BCAPL does not make rush decisions on anything. I stand behind them 110% b/c they truly are the best league in the country. If they made this rule, then they had good reason for it. I am saddened it's upset so many people, though.

Milo
06-22-2009, 07:38 PM
i am shocked people would quit a great league because they can't use a certain tip. It makes me wonder what i have been missing by not ever using/trying the banned tip. A lot people seem quite upset about this and i admittedly do not understand.

However, the bcapl does not make rush decisions on anything. I stand behind them 110% b/c they truly are the best league in the country. If they made this rule, then they had good reason for it. I am saddened it's upset so many people, though.


tap,tap,tap!!!!

mantis99
06-22-2009, 07:46 PM
I find it hard to believe that people are making such a big deal of this. You are entitled to your own opinion but it seems a little over the top to quit a league for a rule thaf was made for a legitimate reason.

NINEBALLART
06-22-2009, 07:55 PM
Trigger said it better than I could...I agree 100% with her view....:smile:

Luxury
06-22-2009, 08:16 PM
I know that I'm going to get to keep using my bk2 at my weekly league where we use our own cue ball. I am not going to travel to vegas or any events where they are enforcing this rule. I'm a 9 and would be playing really tough matches and I want to play my best game. I won a check for most break n runs last session mainly due to my break.

I don't ever judge things on a basis of well the Bca always makes sound decisions so this must be good. I look at things like this: How much money are we spending on balls? How many guys that love their break cue won't pay entry fees? How much money will we lose there?

I know that some guys like me won't compete in vegas but I also know all the guys that show up not knowing the new rule will have a very bad experience and not come back.

I'm good at pool but great at sales and marketing. Am I missing something? Did the Bca feel they were having to replace cloth too? If so then I would understand but I don't think the tips really hurt the cloth that much.

cardiac kid
06-22-2009, 08:19 PM
And just where are you planning to play? APA or TAP where a ball shot at a specific pocket misses and goes in another counts as a made ball? Where sandbaging is a way of life? VNEA or ACS where entire states or regions have no league system and essentially use BCAPL rules anyway? Because the BCAPL banned phenolic break cue tips? You sure are going to miss playing on those Diamond Smart tables. Just think, Valley bar boxes forever! Weighted cue balls and all that. Good luck!

According to some players (and AZ posters), BCAPL has made several bad decisions over it's five year life. In retrospect, those decisions have turned out to be the correct ones. There was lots of smoke over the $5.00 increase in membership fees. Reading the BCAPL website, the increase may be a decrease for some players. Specifically me.

Lyn

cardiac kid
06-22-2009, 08:22 PM
I'm good at pool but great at sales and marketing. Am I missing something? Did the Bca feel they were having to replace cloth too? If so then I would understand but I don't think the tips really hurt the cloth that much.

Do you really believe this is about the cloth?

Lyn

sunnyday
06-22-2009, 08:28 PM
I'm good at pool but great at sales and marketing. Am I missing something? Did the Bca feel they were having to replace cloth too? If so then I would understand but I don't think the tips really hurt the cloth that much.

Well, before you get so deep about your marketing strategies and offer advice, lets get the name right first. It's BCAPL, not BCA.. There is a BIG difference.

Let's not be that guy who walks into the interview and calls Mr. Dumas a Mr. Dumb Ass....

"Mr. Dumb Ass, I am the guy you want for your company!":rolleyes:

S.

Luxury
06-22-2009, 08:35 PM
And just where are you planning to play? APA or TAP where a ball shot at a specific pocket misses and goes in another counts as a made ball? Where sandbaging is a way of life? VNEA or ACS where entire states or regions have no league system and essentially use BCAPL rules anyway? Because the BCAPL banned phenolic break cue tips? You sure are going to miss playing on those Diamond Smart tables. Just think, Valley bar boxes forever! Weighted cue balls and all that. Good luck!

According to some players (and AZ posters), BCAPL has made several bad decisions over it's five year life. In retrospect, those decisions have turned out to be the correct ones. There was lots of smoke over the $5.00 increase in membership fees. Reading the BCAPL website, the increase may be a decrease for some players. Specifically me.

Lyn

Actually TAP is not a slop league. You have to call your pocket. I played tap for 6 years up until a year ago and I miss it. Every week I got to play a race to 5 and I could walk away proud after a thrilling hill hill win. In Bca I'm not proud of beating anyone just the one game and playing 4 different guys 1 game just took all the pressure and excitement out of it. We only have the Bca where I moved to.

JDB
06-22-2009, 08:40 PM
Actually TAP is not a slop league. You have to call your pocket. I played tap for 6 years up until a year ago and I miss it. Every week I got to play a race to 5 and I could walk away proud after a thrilling hill hill win. In Bca I'm not proud of beating anyone just the one game and playing 4 different guys 1 game just took all the pressure and excitement out of it. We only have the Bca where I moved to.

I gotta agree with you here. I love the race format in the leagues that have it and hate the format where you play 5 games against 5 different opponents, waiting after each game for your next game. That is one of the primary reasons I don't want to play BCAPL, although I would like to have the higher level competition.

I really enjoy the APA Masters format where it is a race to 7 and is a combination of 8 ball and 9 ball with no handicaps.

Luxury
06-22-2009, 08:46 PM
Well, before you get so deep about your marketing strategies and offer advice, lets get the name right first. It's BCAPL, not BCA.. There is a BIG difference.

Let's not be that guy who walks into the interview and calls Mr. Dumas a Mr. Dumb Ass....

"Mr. Dumb Ass, I am the guy you want for your company!":rolleyes:

S.

Thank you SO much. I will have to get my new BCA SUCKS! Tattoo updated. Luckily I had it done like this:
BCA
SUCKS!
so there will be room on my chest for the P and L.

sunnyday
06-22-2009, 08:53 PM
Thank you SO much. I will have to get my new BCA SUCKS! Tattoo updated. Luckily I had it done like this:
BCA
SUCKS!
so there will be room on my chest for the P and L.

Hey, what ever you tattoo "your body" is your decision. You can tattoo "Dumb Ass" for all I care:p LOL. Don't be so sensitive:rolleyes:

S.

Johnnyt
06-22-2009, 08:56 PM
Well, before you get so deep about your marketing strategies and offer advice, lets get the name right first. It's BCAPL, not BCA.. There is a BIG difference.

Let's not be that guy who walks into the interview and calls Mr. Dumas a Mr. Dumb Ass....

"Mr. Dumb Ass, I am the guy you want for your company!":rolleyes:

S.

LMAO. Johnnyt

Luxury
06-22-2009, 08:56 PM
Do you really believe this is about the cloth?

Lyn

I really don't know how much more often cloth has to be replaced with pheolic tip use. I don't believe it would be often enough to justify this ban. I could be wrong. I started this poll to better understand the decision and to help get it changed soon.

I shouldn't have made the poll just about guys switching leagues. I should brought up the players that won't go to the national events or won't come back after their break cue is banned and they have to find a house cue cuz they didn't know the rule.

brhawk
06-22-2009, 09:04 PM
I bet it won't be long before other leagues follow, and probably see a lot of tournaments require leather tips.

pdcue
06-22-2009, 09:07 PM
I don't play in leagues but I'm not sure what the big deal is. If you can't use phenolic and no one else can either - how does it affect your game or the outcome?

I'm not a league type of guy, but if I did play in a league - it would be a BCA league. The other leagues seem to have retarded rules, imo. So what's worse? Not being able to use a phenolic tip or to play in a league with stupid rules? I'd break with my playing cue before playing in a league where slop counts, you have to mark a pocket, no ball in hand, etc.

Don't you have to own a pocket-chalker before the APA lets you in?

Neither Snooker nor One Pocket require a player to call shots.

You may need to do a bit more analysis.

Dale

Milo
06-22-2009, 09:09 PM
I know that I'm going to get to keep using my bk2 at my weekly league where we use our own cue ball. I am not going to travel to vegas or any events where they are enforcing this rule. I'm a 9 and would be playing really tough matches and I want to play my best game. I won a check for most break n runs last session mainly due to my break.

I don't ever judge things on a basis of well the Bca always makes sound decisions so this must be good. I look at things like this: How much money are we spending on balls? How many guys that love their break cue won't pay entry fees? How much money will we lose there?

I know that some guys like me won't compete in vegas but I also know all the guys that show up not knowing the new rule will have a very bad experience and not come back.

I'm good at pool but great at sales and marketing. Am I missing something? Did the Bca feel they were having to replace cloth too? If so then I would understand but I don't think the tips really hurt the cloth that much.



I am a little confused. What are you a 9 in?? Tap, APA, or BCA ??
If you are a 9 in BCA then your rating has nothing to do with anything, when you participate in upper level tourneys. (Vegas or Lincoln City)
In Lincoln City, you would be allowed to play in the open division. (Your league operator will determine either open A or open B) Vegas, you will be able to play in the open division. Before you make a decision about your participation, maybe you should give it a try. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. :smile:
Remember, EVERYONE is in the same boat.
My point is, you will not be in the masters division. (which, of course, is a tougher division) So the disadvantage that you feel you will be under is not so much of one. I hope I communicated my point correctly.:D

I agree with Trigger. BCAPL is the best league in the country, Hands down.!!!!!!

SpiderWebComm
06-22-2009, 09:11 PM
Neither Snooker nor One Pocket require a player to call shots.

You may need to do a bit more analysis.

Dale


*ORIGINAL REPLY DELETED*

You're right.... I need to do a bit more analysis. siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggghhh

Excuse me while I learn to not poke my non-understanding nose into things.

Luxury
06-22-2009, 09:14 PM
Hey, what ever you tattoo "your body" is your decision. You can tattoo "Dumb Ass" for all I care:p LOL. Don't be so sensitive:rolleyes:

S.

Please read my post about the tattoo and know that I was 100% just trying to make a witty joke and wasn't feeling sensitive at all. I if some corrects my grammar or spelling or anything trivial like that I can't possibly feel offended cuz that's just nothing. I hope you don't really think I got the tattoo. My only tattoo is a John Lennon tattoo with the cover of "Imagine" sketch of his face. "give peace a chance" "all you need is love".

cardiac kid
06-22-2009, 09:20 PM
I really don't know how much more often cloth has to be replaced with pheolic tip use. I don't believe it would be often enough to justify this ban. I could be wrong.

Luxury,

The ban on phenolic break cue tips was instituted because the BCAPL believes they damage cue balls. Specifically Aramith cue balls used on Diamond tables. The owners of the BCAPL also distribute Diamond Billiard Products on the West side of the Rocky Mountains. They deliver complete Diamond pool tables with Aramith billiard ball sets and Simonis billiard cloth. They have a vested interest in cue ball damage.

Lyn

Luxury
06-22-2009, 09:26 PM
Luxury,

The ban on phenolic break cue tips was instituted because the BCAPL believes they damage cue balls. Specifically Aramith cue balls used on Diamond tables. The owners of the BCAPL also distribute Diamond Billiard Products on the West side of the Rocky Mountains. They deliver complete Diamond pool tables with Aramith billiard ball sets and Simonis billiard cloth. They have a vested interest in cue ball damage.

Lyn

I'm sure they have a vested interest in how many phenolic tip breakers choose not to participate as well.

Luxury
06-22-2009, 09:33 PM
Thanks. I assumed I would have to play against other 9s in BCA that get to keep breaking with their same old leather break cue where I would have to buy another cue and not be used to it which would be a big advantage for them.

I will probably still wait a year or two at least for the ban to lift. I really hate playing without my equipment. The break is so important and I always want to play my best game. For instance, even if there is some east money to win in a bar but I would have to use a house cue I choose not to play ever with a house cue.

Trust me Luxury, I know what I am talking about. (I am on the ratings committe for Western BCA, and I have seen you play. You would be allowed to play in the open in Lincoln City)
Please think about it before you make your decision.

I am a little confused. What are you a 9 in?? Tap, APA, or BCA ??
If you are a 9 in BCA then your rating has nothing to do with anything, when you participate in upper level tourneys. (Vegas or Lincoln City)
In Lincoln City, you would be allowed to play in the open division. (Your league operator will determine either open A or open B) Vegas, you will be able to play in the open division. Before you make a decision about your participation, maybe you should give it a try. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. :smile:
Remember, EVERYONE is in the same boat.
My point is, you will not be in the masters division. (which, of course, is a tougher division) So the disadvantage that you feel you will be under is not so much of one. I hope I communicated my point correctly.:D

I agree with Trigger. BCAPL is the best league in the country, Hands down.!!!!!!

pdcue
06-22-2009, 09:38 PM
*ORIGINAL REPLY DELETED*

You're right.... I need to do a bit more analysis. siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggghhh

Excuse me while I learn to not poke my non-understanding nose into things.

Glad I could help, Grasshopper.

derekdisco
06-22-2009, 09:44 PM
Neither Snooker nor One Pocket require a player to call shots.

You may need to do a bit more analysis.

Dale

I think he said mark a pocket, not call.

SpiderWebComm
06-22-2009, 09:45 PM
Glad I could help, Grasshopper.

You forgot to mention 9ball - there's slop in that too, right? What about cut-throat?

I deleted my post because your reply made no sense and didn't have anything to do with the thread or the post you quoted me on...grasshopper

Milo
06-22-2009, 10:03 PM
Thanks. I assumed I would have to play against other 9s in BCA that get to keep breaking with their same old leather break cue where I would have to buy another cue and not be used to it which would be a big advantage for them.

I will probably still wait a year or two at least for the ban to lift. I really hate playing without my equipment. The break is so important and I always want to play my best game. For instance, even if there is some east money to win in a bar but I would have to use a house cue I choose not to play ever with a house cue.

Not to take any credit away from you,but being a BCA 9 in your local area doesnt neccessarily mean you are a "9" regionally. Western BCA is not a handicapped system. In the mens, there are 3 divisions. Masters, Open A,and Open B. You race to the same number of games. (example: Master Men race to 7 in 8 ball and race to 9 in 9ball, Open A race to 6 in 8 ball and 8 in 9 ball, Open B race to 5 in 8ball and race to 7 in 9ball)

I think all leagues have their place, and they all have their good and bad points.
If you want to compete at a very high skill level, then BCA is the league you want. Trust me Luxury. ;) You will be very surprised. There are some killer players that play BCAPL. Just ask Mr Atwell and Mr Louie.;)
It will definately challenge your game.:smile:

Note: You wont have to play Glenn and Dan til you finish in the top 4% of the open field. (Whew :D)

Milo
06-22-2009, 10:07 PM
You forgot to mention 9ball - there's slop in that too, right? What about cut-throat?

I deleted my post because your reply made no sense and didn't have anything to do with the thread or the post you quoted me on...grasshopper


Dave, Are you still here!!!!!:D (Just saying, and just teasing)

Mark Griffin
06-22-2009, 10:30 PM
This is addressed to Luxury more than anyone else. I apologize now for the rant that follows.

Please try to get your facts straight. The BCAPL (not the BCA) stated this only applies to the National event and Regional tournaments promoted (directed) by the BCAPL.

It does NOT say that Wetsern BCA will adopt this policy.

It is NOT about the cost of cue balls. It is about damaging equipment. It has NOTHING to do about wearing out the cloth. No-one should have to replace any balls because a cue tip damages them.

If I am not mistaken, APA does NOT ALLOW jump cues. So what are you gonna do now. I assume you won't be playing APA either.

We do a LOT for pool - and it pisses me off when someone (such as yourself) tries to 'threaten' us by bringing up the 'imaginary amount of money we might lose' for making the right decision..

Why not get out and support some of the things CSI (parent of BCAPL) does - like the National Championship Series. Or maybe applaud the extensive rule re-write we did a year ago (which took and year and a fair amount of time or money) or how about the CTS (on line, real time brackets) which will allow tracking of players by people at home. (which also took 2 years and over $100,000.

No, you would rather ***** and complain (in a public forum - with the intent of 'forcing' us to change our position) then send an intelligent letter to our office. It just gets old.

Oh-and by the way, I am really sorry you will NEVER use a house cue. I always thought the great cue makers were trying to emulate the 'hit' of a good one-piece cue. But I am sure you know more about that than me.

Sometimes the squeeky wheel does not get the grease. Sometimes the wheel needs changing.

Oh, by the way, please tell SVB he NEEDS a phenolic tip to be able to compete with the 'big boys'. About half of your logic is all in your head. If you feel the game is all about breaking, then you have convinced yourself you have an advantage. That is what confidence is all about.

See how far a phenolic tip gets you in 14.1 or one-pocket. In fact playing 10 ball on a 9' probably nullifies most of the perceived gain of phenolic. I agree with previous posters (here and in other threads) - it is about technique. Many top players do not use phenolic.

I will get off my soapbox now. I feel better. Maybe my skin is a little thin these days. But it should not be necessary to put up with all these misguided posts.

Almost like boycotting a particular car because the tires are too big for the Indy 500. Never mind that you will never be in the Indy 500. AND if you ever were in the INDY 500, you would only have to change your tires. Oh-and everything else about the car is much better than the other brands available. You need to learn how to adapt. Or not.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI-BCAPL-USAPL-NCS

jmizzo
06-22-2009, 10:31 PM
From what I have heard, they consulted aramith and simonis, and took their opinions/information into great consideration when enacting this rule. Aramith has a vested interest in not saying that are balls chip all the time, without ever being touched by a phenolic tip, its better to blame it on that. Was any phenolic makers or cuemakers consulted with? Did they go up to Predator and give them a chance to prove that its not the phenolic tips on their BK2?

I am not saying this is what happened, but it kind of makes sense. Aramith would never give the opinion "our balls chip sometimes from regular use," so its easier for them to claim its the tip, it has to be the tip.

I would assume that break speeds have done nothing but increase of the years, and that could have led to some of these issues. So I propose a rule, No breaking over 15 miles an hour. This would eliminate that problem.

BVal
06-22-2009, 10:36 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. Break with a leather tip.

BVal

Mowem down
06-22-2009, 10:59 PM
I got tears rolling down my face, I dont come around much anymore, but am glad I did tonight........you are killing me. you must be pissed, ive never scene you make typing mistakes their going to start thinking your me again..:p

First off the rule shouldnt apply to you, you break like a GIRL...:eek:, Jasmin. Second, its not the rule, its your love for that peace of crap bk2:D thats got your thinking fogged over. My new Jack Madden (custom ordered, designed by ME) Jack hammer break cue will be hear soon, If your lucky I'll let you try it....And third, well there is no third but if your phone still wont get my pic. mails fix that would ya, your missing somr funny sh*t...

P.S. Its the friction caused buy the speed of the break is what burns the cloth, thats why at my house we use a break pad. I think a leather tip burns the cloth worse than a phenolic, it puts more spin on the ball at impact. They both will make the ball hop down the table and make dents so thats a wash. As far as cost do to damage, thats crap. I break way harder than most, have been pounding the same cue ball for years, yea its damaged, from the wall, floor, slamming into the back of the botom left pocket at 28,29 maybe 30 mph, and yea maybe my tip. And ya know what it rolls as straight as a string. They could replace the cueballs every year it wouldnt hurt them a bit (monateraly)and it would be over kill....

P.P.S.S. Pj pockets has a 200 added tourney on tues now I was told, 30 players the first night. Yea I know you have almost no chance of winning but you always smell nice trying :p.....Oh yea did I mention the 500 break pot and, YOU CAN USE YOUR bk2 BREAK CUE.....

edit...holly crap you pissd him off....

Pushout
06-22-2009, 11:04 PM
Wha....huh??

DogsPlayingPool
06-22-2009, 11:23 PM
I don't get it either. From everything I've read the BCAPL is far and away the best league for a player. And as SpiderWeb stated, the rule applies to everyone so if you have a better break with, then you probably have a similar advantage without.

This may not be the case but honestly, for someone to say they would leave the league over not being able to use a phenolic tip break cue to snap the rack kind of sounds like the mentality of a banger, not a player.

If it's about the money, I would just grab a house cue off the rack so the change costs me nothing. In fact it would actually put money in my pocket because I can then sell my turbo-tipped break cue to someone switching leagues. ;)

Mowem down
06-22-2009, 11:28 PM
This is addressed to Luxury more than anyone else. I apologize now for the rant that follows.

Please try to get your facts straight. The BCAPL (not the BCA) stated this only applies to the National event and Regional tournaments promoted (directed) by the BCAPL.

It does NOT say that Wetsern BCA will adopt this policy.

It is NOT about the cost of cue balls. It is about damaging equipment. It has NOTHING to do about wearing out the cloth. No-one should have to replace any balls because a cue tip damages them.

If I am not mistaken, APA does NOT ALLOW jump cues. So what are you gonna do now. I assume you won't be playing APA either.

We do a LOT for pool - and it pisses me off when someone (such as yourself) tries to 'threaten' us by bringing up the 'imaginary amount of money we might lose' for making the right decision..

Why not get out and support some of the things CSI (parent of BCAPL) does - like the National Championship Series. Or maybe applaud the extensive rule re-write we did a year ago (which took and year and a fair amount of time or money) or how about the CTS (on line, real time brackets) which will allow tracking of players by people at home. (which also took 2 years and over $100,000.

No, you would rather ***** and complain (in a public forum - with the intent of 'forcing' us to change our position) then send an intelligent letter to our office. It just gets old.

Oh-and by the way, I am really sorry you will NEVER use a house cue. I always thought the great cue makers were trying to emulate the 'hit' of a good one-piece cue. But I am sure you know more about that than me.

Sometimes the squeeky wheel does not get the grease. Sometimes the wheel needs changing.

Oh, by the way, please tell SVB he NEEDS a phenolic tip to be able to compete with the 'big boys'. About half of your logic is all in your head. If you feel the game is all about breaking, then you have convinced yourself you have an advantage. That is what confidence is all about.

See how far a phenolic tip gets you in 14.1 or one-pocket. In fact playing 10 ball on a 9' probably nullifies most of the perceived gain of phenolic. I agree with previous posters (here and in other threads) - it is about technique. Many top players do not use phenolic.

I will get off my soapbox now. I feel better. Maybe my skin is a little thin these days. But it should not be necessary to put up with all these misguided posts.

Almost like boycotting a particular car because the tires are too big for the Indy 500. Never mind that you will never be in the Indy 500. AND if you ever were in the INDY 500, you would only have to change your tires. Oh-and everything else about the car is much better than the other brands available. You need to learn how to adapt. Or not.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI-BCAPL-USAPL-NCS

He was tourtured as a young lad he usually hids it better but slipped out today...it is however, is dime that is going to pay to get his shaft changed over, and if preditor wont do it, good bye warranty.

Lux. he doesn have a good point about the pros and phenloic. I personaly like it when people duck and cover when the "crack" of a gun shot goes off and your break is almost as good as mine. But as I told you befor I know a 62 year old man who breaks with a leather tip and his brek makes mine look well just plain silly...

Luxury
06-22-2009, 11:28 PM
I started this thread to try to help the BCAPL see the light and save themselves some lost money and so that I and others could compete with the equipment we have spent hundereds of hours getting used to.

This is addressed to Luxury more than anyone else. I apologize now for the rant that follows.

Please try to get your facts straight. The BCAPL (not the BCA) stated this only applies to the National event and Regional tournaments promoted (directed) by the BCAPL.

I have said that I and I believe others wont be going to the national event if we have to buy a new break cue and play with something we are not used to.
It does NOT say that Wetsern BCA will adopt this policy.

I said that I'm sure I will still be able to play with my BK2 on my monday night BCAPL league.

It is NOT about the cost of cue balls. It is about damaging equipment. It has NOTHING to do about wearing out the cloth. No-one should have to replace any balls because a cue tip damages them.

No one should have to replace their break cue.

If I am not mistaken, APA does NOT ALLOW jump cues. So what are you gonna do now. I assume you won't be playing APA either.

I'm going to do as I said and continue playing monday night league. Did you read the thread?

We do a LOT for pool - and it pisses me off when someone (such as yourself) tries to 'threaten' us by bringing up the 'imaginary amount of money we might lose' for making the right decision..

It's not an imaginary amount. Real genuine money will be lost.

Why not get out and support some of the things CSI (parent of BCAPL) does - like the National Championship Series. Or maybe applaud the extensive rule re-write we did a year ago (which took and year and a fair amount of time or money) or how about the CTS (on line, real time brackets) which will allow tracking of players by people at home. (which also took 2 years and over $100,000.

Honestly I'm not really that impressed by these accomplishments or the high price paid for them.

No, you would rather ***** and complain (in a public forum - with the intent of 'forcing' us to change our position) then send an intelligent letter to our office. It just gets old.

You are preaching about an intelligent letter while writing this post?

Oh-and by the way, I am really sorry you will NEVER use a house cue. I always thought the great cue makers were trying to emulate the 'hit' of a good one-piece cue. But I am sure you know more about that than me.

All I need to know is how much better I play with my Predator 314/2 than every house cue I've ever tried.

Sometimes the squeeky wheel does not get the grease. Sometimes the wheel needs changing.

Oh, by the way, please tell SVB he NEEDS a phenolic tip to be able to compete with the 'big boys'. About half of your logic is all in your head. If you feel the game is all about breaking, then you have convinced yourself you have an advantage. That is what confidence is all about.

Tell a pro that they can't use whatever break cue they have spent countless hours practicing their break with when they are about to start their match which is going to happen to all the BCAPL players that don't know about this rule and watch their reaction.

If you don't think I've spent hours practicing my break with a break rak then watch this video of me breaking with my old x breaker. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCDQ7C8aC-o&feature=related

See how far a phenolic tip gets you in 14.1 or one-pocket.

Seriously what does this have to do with anything?

In fact playing 10 ball on a 9' probably nullifies most of the perceived gain of phenolic. I agree with previous posters (here and in other threads) - it is about technique. Many top players do not use phenolic.

Are these BCAPL events 10 ball? Try to stick to the topic.


I will get off my soapbox now. I feel better. Maybe my skin is a little thin these days. But it should not be necessary to put up with all these misguided posts.

Almost like boycotting a particular car because the tires are too big for the Indy 500. Never mind that you will never be in the Indy 500. AND if you ever were in the INDY 500, you would only have to change your tires. Oh-and everything else about the car is much better than the other brands available. You need to learn how to adapt. Or not.

Analogies are one of the most over-rated things in a debate.
Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI-BCAPL-USAPL-NCS

gunzby
06-22-2009, 11:35 PM
Considering that it just goes back to leather tips I doubt there will be a problem.

I could understand if they banned G10 where everyone paid to switch to phenolic and then banned phenolic soon after. Some will complain, but once the switch is done the complaining will be done as well.

I quit playing softball for the ASA because of what I mentioned above. They would certify a bat to be legit for the league and then ban it a year or less later putting me out $300. This happened 3 times in two years leaving me with 5 bats going from $150 to $300 that I couldn't use. I got fed up and quit because of the BS.

Luxury
06-23-2009, 12:03 AM
I don't get it either. From everything I've read the BCAPL is far and away the best league for a player. And as SpiderWeb stated, the rule applies to everyone so if you have a better break with, then you probably have a similar advantage without.

This may not be the case but honestly, for someone to say they would leave the league over not being able to use a phenolic tip break cue to snap the rack kind of sounds like the mentality of a banger, not a player.

If it's about the money, I would just grab a house cue off the rack so the change costs me nothing. In fact it would actually put money in my pocket because I can then sell my turbo-tipped break cue to someone switching leagues. ;)

No the guys I would be playing that are used to their break cue would have an advantage over the players that are using a new break cue that they aren't used to. A lot of guys that play for money are not about to start using a leather tip all the time so they can get used to it for the BCAPL events.

ridewiththewind
06-23-2009, 01:26 AM
Luxury...and I mean this with all respect, but...you need to have more confidence in your break...period. There really is no such thing as the 'magick stick'...whether it be a breaker or a player or a jumper, it's till just two/ a few piece of wood and a fancy tip. If your breaking technique is sound, you should still have as similar a result as your opponent playing with the exact spec'd equipment. This just kind seems like a no-brainer to me. No one is at an advantage due to equipment...only good old-fashioned skill and technique. Seems to me like it would make the game more fun to play.

As to your point of players arriving for an event in LC or LV without the properly spec'd equipment.....oh well! Look, there is absolutely no excuse for not knowing the rules of any given league one is participating in, for any given year...at least with regards to the Western BCAPL, every player receives a small rule book with their membership. At least I did. Seems like it was even small enough to fit into the pocket of a cues case. But it has been a couple of years since I have been able to play in that league due to my work schedule.

I will say this...even before the ban on phenolic tips on break cues in the larger events...I LOVED the time I have spent in the Western BCAPL!!! Easily the smoothest running league in the country. :yeah:

Lisa

derekdisco
06-23-2009, 03:40 AM
I'm going to do as I said and continue playing monday night league. Did you read the thread?


No, but your thread title did say will it lose more money to players switching leagues. I thought you meant that youd be switching also.

Rich R.
06-23-2009, 06:16 AM
The real issue is not whether the BCAPL allows phenolic tips or not.
The issue is the BCAPL's total disregard for their membership.

It is not like phenolic tips just came on the market yesteday. They have been around for years. All of a sudden the BCAPL decides to ban the phenolic tips with total disregard to the thousands of members who have purchased tips and cues.

At the very least, these players have to change tips on their cues. Those who have purcased cues specifically designed with phenolic combination tip/ferrules have to decide whether to destroy the basic design of the cue or to replace it entirely.

It is this total disregard for their membership that turns me off of the BCAPL.

BTW, I have seen cue balls damaged in a lot of ways, but I have never seen one damaged by hitting it with a phenolic tip.

SCCues
06-23-2009, 06:28 AM
I'd pay for a new set of balls every week if we had bca instead of apa.

The BCA is my choice if I played in a pool league. The APA in my area is all about sand bagging and strategy to win a tournament to go to Las Vegas. It's not any fun at all playing in a league where players are told to lose on purpose and I don't see how they can ever stop it. Teams bring in new players for the sole purpose of winning the tournament for the trip to Las Vegas and these new players are told to lose until they need them to win important matches. It's a shame that this is how a lot of teams work to beat the system.

James

jason
06-23-2009, 06:57 AM
Without getting off track on comparing leagues, the BCAPL (IMHO) is the best there is and Mark Griffin one of the best, period.

The BCAPL has the right to choose what they think is best for their league. Personally, I happen to agree with them. I haven't did the research on the damage to the cue ball, but I will go on the assumption that they do cause damage. That being said, I don't understand why anyone would want to play with Phenolic tips. I personally don't like them, but obviously a lot of you do.

P.S. I'm glad baseball has never allowed aluminum bats in the majors.

cardiac kid
06-23-2009, 07:19 AM
Luxury,

I'm just taken back by your stance. Do you really feel the break shot is that important? Every other rack in BCAPL. What about the other potential sixteen shots between breaks? Do they matter?

As I posted on another thread, I will challenge you to a break contest. Most accurate cue ball placement after the break and fallen ball count. I use a fifteen year old McDermott to break with in Vegas. In Rochester I have an eighteen year old Schon. Both have leather tips. I can't even tell you which brand. I don't care. Neither should you. You are fixating on the wrong thing. It's not the cue, it's the player! It's not the material, it's the amount of correct practice time!

Mr. Griffin and I do not always agree. We've had our moments. In this instance he is absolutely correct! Regardless of why the rule was changed, it is his sandbox. Either play by his rules or find another sandbox to play in!

Lyn

cardiac kid
06-23-2009, 07:27 AM
Actually, on second thought, maybe you're correct. As of today, the phenolic tip rule is rescinded. Concurrently a new rule is now in force. All BCAPL events will be held using the old, old style 2 1/2" cue balls. Have fun!!!!!!

Lyn

Big Perm
06-23-2009, 07:43 AM
Luxury....first and foremost, like the avatar :D

Second, just like any rule change, they knew this would be a beating because people always bit#h about change.....that means they weighed the good against the bad and decided it was in the best interest to move forward with this change....if somebody quits a league or misses an important event due to a fair and consistent rule change, so be it.....some customers you are simply better off without....

Third, I beg everyone else, no more phenolic tip threads.....it's really getting to be a beating....it's a tip....if it's that important, quit league and just start matching up....you can make more money that way and you get more games being in action...

SpiderWebComm
06-23-2009, 07:48 AM
Without getting off track on comparing leagues, the BCAPL (IMHO) is the best there is and Mark Griffin one of the best, period.

The BCAPL has the right to choose what they think is best for their league. Personally, I happen to agree with them. I haven't did the research on the damage to the cue ball, but I will go on the assumption that they do cause damage. That being said, I don't understand why anyone would want to play with Phenolic tips. I personally don't like them, but obviously a lot of you do.

P.S. I'm glad baseball has never allowed aluminum bats in the majors.

What Jason said....

All ya need to do now is to do away with jump cues and everything will be perfect again. Force someone to kick when they're hemmed-up 2" behind an obstructing ball.

Luxury
06-23-2009, 08:05 AM
I feel that the break is incredibly important when you are a player who can break and run often which I do. As I said earlier in the thread I didn't win the prize for the league's best break, I won the prize for most break and runs so I definitely understand how important making the other shots are.

What's more important is the tons of players who have to get new equipment to play at the events. You think Mark is right because it's his sandbox I'm not questioning if a man can run his business how he wants I'm questioning whether this decision will lose players and money.

Most pool players are broke and will be pissed that they spent hundereds on a stick and now have to pay more money for a stick to use in Vegas. I think for this reason alone the ban will be bad for business in the BCAPL.

Mark clearly states in this thread that it is NOT about the cost of replacing balls or cloth so based on that and how defensive his rant was that was so full of nonsense I still can't believe it, I'm starting to think there is a hidden reason for the ban.

Luxury,

I'm just taken back by your stance. Do you really feel the break shot is that important? Every other rack in BCAPL. What about the other potential sixteen shots between breaks? Do they matter?

As I posted on another thread, I will challenge you to a break contest. Most accurate cue ball placement after the break and fallen ball count. I use a fifteen year old McDermott to break with in Vegas. In Rochester I have an eighteen year old Schon. Both have leather tips. I can't even tell you which brand. I don't care. Neither should you. You are fixating on the wrong thing. It's not the cue, it's the player! It's not the material, it's the amount of correct practice time!

Mr. Griffin and I do not always agree. We've had our moments. In this instance he is absolutely correct! Regardless of why the rule was changed, it is his sandbox. Either play by his rules or find another sandbox to play in!

Lyn

supergreenman
06-23-2009, 08:35 AM
I'm quite certain that they will lose more money than they were paying for balls. I know they lost business from me. Bad business IMO.

The BCA offers one of the best products as far as leagues go. When you take into consideration the diamond tables they use for thier tournaments it probably puts them over the top.

To quit a good league because they won't let you use a phenolic tip is just plain stupid.

I have a break cue with a phenolic tip, but I find I have far more control just using my playing cue. As far as jump cues go, I suppose it's a bit of a pain in the butt if you can't use a phenolic tip, but as many have said, you should be able to do it with leather so it comes down to developing the right skills.

In the end this should be better for your game.

supergreenman
06-23-2009, 08:46 AM
This is addressed to Luxury more than anyone else. I apologize now for the rant that follows.

Please try to get your facts straight. The BCAPL (not the BCA) stated this only applies to the National event and Regional tournaments promoted (directed) by the BCAPL.

It does NOT say that Wetsern BCA will adopt this policy.

It is NOT about the cost of cue balls. It is about damaging equipment. It has NOTHING to do about wearing out the cloth. No-one should have to replace any balls because a cue tip damages them.

If I am not mistaken, APA does NOT ALLOW jump cues. So what are you gonna do now. I assume you won't be playing APA either.

We do a LOT for pool - and it pisses me off when someone (such as yourself) tries to 'threaten' us by bringing up the 'imaginary amount of money we might lose' for making the right decision..

Why not get out and support some of the things CSI (parent of BCAPL) does - like the National Championship Series. Or maybe applaud the extensive rule re-write we did a year ago (which took and year and a fair amount of time or money) or how about the CTS (on line, real time brackets) which will allow tracking of players by people at home. (which also took 2 years and over $100,000.

No, you would rather ***** and complain (in a public forum - with the intent of 'forcing' us to change our position) then send an intelligent letter to our office. It just gets old.

Oh-and by the way, I am really sorry you will NEVER use a house cue. I always thought the great cue makers were trying to emulate the 'hit' of a good one-piece cue. But I am sure you know more about that than me.

Sometimes the squeeky wheel does not get the grease. Sometimes the wheel needs changing.

Oh, by the way, please tell SVB he NEEDS a phenolic tip to be able to compete with the 'big boys'. About half of your logic is all in your head. If you feel the game is all about breaking, then you have convinced yourself you have an advantage. That is what confidence is all about.

See how far a phenolic tip gets you in 14.1 or one-pocket. In fact playing 10 ball on a 9' probably nullifies most of the perceived gain of phenolic. I agree with previous posters (here and in other threads) - it is about technique. Many top players do not use phenolic.

I will get off my soapbox now. I feel better. Maybe my skin is a little thin these days. But it should not be necessary to put up with all these misguided posts.

Almost like boycotting a particular car because the tires are too big for the Indy 500. Never mind that you will never be in the Indy 500. AND if you ever were in the INDY 500, you would only have to change your tires. Oh-and everything else about the car is much better than the other brands available. You need to learn how to adapt. Or not.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI-BCAPL-USAPL-NCS

Well said sir!!!!!!!!!!

CreeDo
06-23-2009, 09:04 AM
For realz this is stupid.

You don't throw away a perfectly good league experience over a minor equipment rule. Anyone who does is a dink and misses the point of league. You're there to have fun and compete. You don't need a 20% harder tip to do that.

Luxury
06-23-2009, 09:18 AM
No one reads. Here is post 12 in this thread: I'm not quitting the BCA - Yesterday, 08:16 PM
I explained that they lost my business at the national events. I just think this is a bad rule that needs to be changed for the good of the players and the bcapl leagues profitibility. End of story.

The BCA offers one of the best products as far as leagues go. When you take into consideration the diamond tables they use for thier tournaments it probably puts them over the top.

To quit a good league because they won't let you use a phenolic tip is just plain stupid.

I have a break cue with a phenolic tip, but I find I have far more control just using my playing cue. As far as jump cues go, I suppose it's a bit of a pain in the butt if you can't use a phenolic tip, but as many have said, you should be able to do it with leather so it comes down to developing the right skills.

In the end this should be better for your game.

bob b.
06-23-2009, 09:30 AM
luxury-

simple, just buy another shaft?!!! now you can play with either one anytime, this is what i will be doing.....

catscradle
06-23-2009, 09:50 AM
The will lose very little if any business. People may grumble a lot, but they'll stay put.

jason
06-23-2009, 09:59 AM
What Jason said....

All ya need to do now is to do away with jump cues and everything will be perfect again. Force someone to kick when they're hemmed-up 2" behind an obstructing ball.

I'm with ya' brother. Ban the jump cues too. I would gladly put mine away.

Lux-

For all Mark and the BCAPL have done for pool, I find this thread rather insulting to him and his crew. This thread comes off very hostile to the BCAPL rather than a discussion about a simple rule change. This may not have been your intention, but that's the way I read it and I think Mark and some others did too.

I think this thread angered Mark and he felt he had to post to defend his decision and the league he has invested in. A simple letter directly to him or a phone call would have been more civil IMO. It is sad how easily we can forget that there are real people, real costs, and real consequences behind some of the things we say on the "internet".

I truly don't think there will be any significant movement of players boycotting the national tournament or switching leagues for that matter.

Tom In Cincy
06-23-2009, 10:11 AM
The National BCAPL events that you do not attend will only lose your $$$ and maybe a few others, but not enough to really make a difference. IMO your concerns about lost revenue is just your opinion and I can respect that, most of the other posters also respect this part of your posts.

At the BCAPL events that you are NOT going to attend, it is IMO, going to be a better event just because you won't be there. No one likes players that whine and complain about rules.

And, personally, I don't agree that 'for the good of the players' means what you think it does. From your posts, it is for your right to have a phenolic tip.
As far as the profitibility, just another guess on your part, nothing factual to back it up.

Who knows, maybe more players will join because now they won't have to buy a phenolic tip break cue... they've saved money...

IMO, You will not be missed.


No one reads. Here is post 12 in this thread: I'm not quitting the BCA - Yesterday, 08:16 PM
I explained that they lost my business at the national events. I just think this is a bad rule that needs to be changed for the good of the players and the bcapl leagues profitibility. End of story.

Big Perm
06-23-2009, 10:13 AM
luxury-

simple, just buy another shaft?!!! now you can play with either one anytime, this is what i will be doing.....


Easy, simple solution....best of both worlds....rep coming to you...

jrt30004
06-23-2009, 10:17 AM
Well I had plans of playing in vegas and Lincoln city but I love my bk2 and don't want to alter my tip or buy a different cue that I don't want to play with so I will go when they figure it out and remove the ban which I'm sure will be soon.

Visualize how angry players are going to get when told at the event that they can't use their break cue. Those guys probably won't come back. You ate going to lose money BCA and I don't think you thought this through.

i don't think they'll miss a step. the rule only officially applies to the event in vegas and only to the break cue not the jump cue (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=146527). and the rest is left up to the individuals who run the local divisions. our play offs for this session are tonight and i'll be using my j/b phenolic tip and all. if i do go to vegas next year i have a plain jane i used to use as a breaker and i break as well or better (more control from a leather tip) than i do with my j/b. i really don't think you'll have a mass exodus because you can't use phenolic on the break. other leagues ban other things (the apa and jump cues is the one pisses me off) and none of them suffer. i am pretty sure if guys like shooting in the bca they'll use a house cue to break or use a team mates break cue or figure something else out for the nationals.

BVal
06-23-2009, 10:23 AM
I have a break cue with a White Diamond tip on it. I have not used it in months. I break better and more consistently with my player. It has a super pro tip on it. I don't miss my break cue. Quitting a league or not participating because of a tip rule change is pretty petty imo. I had a BK2 with a phenolic tip on it and sold it. What is the point in having a $300 break cue anyways? It didn't make a big enough difference to justify the cost.

BVal

IbeAnEngineer
06-23-2009, 10:35 AM
In my opinion, it really is a non-issue. The BCAPL looked at the effect of the phenolic tips on their equipment, consulted their suppliers and decided to ban the tips due to the damage that was being caused. Hey, it is their league and they can set the rules as they like. I for one, am thankfull that the league had enough forsight to make the announcement in June right after nationals. This gives everyone plenty of time to obtain and adjust to a new break cue (or tip) if needed.

I really do not think that this will impact the participation in the league.

Milo
06-23-2009, 11:00 AM
I know quite a few players, especially one, that have different break cues for different size tables. He has a break cue with a phenolic tip, and a break with a leather tip.
He goes back and forth and adapts to what is needed for a specific tournament.
I havent heard him say one time that the ban on phenolic tips is going to be a problem for him.
Adaptibility should be the norm for all of us in this sport, and in all honesty, Luxury should know that already.

rossaroni
06-23-2009, 11:11 AM
tap,tap,tap!!!!

Never played TAP, but you seem pretty excited about it!:)

Jason Robichaud
06-23-2009, 11:13 AM
I think players paying for this rule change will have a problem. Like the players with a $500 cue that uses these tips. I would be safe in saying thousands of players will be spending money, some big money, to convert their cue. The part I don't like about this is how do I know if my cues are good. Does the new rules give a list of allowed tips and how do we determine if the guy next to me is legal? Is there an equipment check before events or is it "play until someone checks"... how will this be enforced? Is BCAPL going to start selling tips that we can order to make sure we have legal tips? Many, many questions here on this rule change.

Milo
06-23-2009, 11:14 AM
Never played TAP, but you seem pretty excited about it!:)

Very Funny!!!!:D

Im sure TAPP is a good league, but the scorekeeping is CRAZY!!!!

Luxury
06-23-2009, 11:42 AM
I know quite a few players, especially one, that have different break cues for different size tables. He has a break cue with a phenolic tip, and a break with a leather tip.
He goes back and forth and adapts to what is needed for a specific tournament.
I havent heard him say one time that the ban on phenolic tips is going to be a problem for him.
Adaptibility should be the norm for all of us in this sport, and in all honesty, Luxury should know that already.

Seriously this thread was never about me and if it matters if I play or not. I'm just one dude. This thread is about the masses that have break cues that they love and whether or not THEY will be willing to adapt. It's never about what people should do in a perfect world it's about what they WILL do.

I'm sure the lost revenue will be blamed on the economy. I tried to give them a logical warning as to what they stand to lose and all I got back was the realization that a certain CEO is on tilt and desperately needs a PR man to approve his public rants. LOL.

omgwtf
06-23-2009, 12:13 PM
Mark clearly states in this thread that it is NOT about the cost of replacing balls or cloth so based on that and how defensive his rant was that was so full of nonsense I still can't believe it, I'm starting to think there is a hidden reason for the ban.

Obviously, the reputation of your break precedes you. He's just trying to level the playing field for us against you... ;)

I believe the excellence of a break is in the player, not the cue nor its tip.

supergreenman
06-23-2009, 12:18 PM
Obviously, the reputation of your break precedes you. He's just trying to level the playing field for us against you... ;)

I believe the excellence of a break is in the player, not the cue nor its tip.

Could this be the makings of another TAR match? Inquiring minds want to know.

FWIW my money is one OMG who has a thunderous break with a leather tip.

bob b.
06-23-2009, 12:18 PM
luxury-

YOUR poll is telling YOU otherwise of your last comment......

Duane Tuula
06-23-2009, 12:41 PM
I've never liked phenolic tips on break cues so it won't affect my league choice.

I think the final decision to not allow phenolics on break cues but ok for jump cues is a very good choice.

Pool players in general are always changing equipment so what's the big deal? Don't forget if your local league operator wants to allow phenolic-tipped break cues then the only time you would be worried is at nationals (once a year).

MitchAlsup
06-23-2009, 12:51 PM
Well I had plans of playing in vegas and Lincoln city but I love my bk2

So, yould give up your whole pocket billiards experience because you are too cheap to put a new regulation tip on a cue?

Hint: Let it go.

Ponytail
06-23-2009, 12:55 PM
This is similar to the outrage that came after shaft jumping was not allowed due to the damage it was causing.

If your game is so dependent on the equipment you are using, and not your own ability, maybe you should consider taking up another sport.

There are many, many alternatives to phenolic tips out there. Many are said to perform better. Have you tried them, or are you too wrapped up in crying about what you perceive to have lost.

What if you find a new product that does everything phenolic does, but gives you more control, and is accepted by the BCA? To you continue to cry foul?

I think those people that love this game, and love to play this game in a league system that is currently one of the best run (IMO) will take this rule and adapt their game to what the rules are.

I play in a pool hall that does not allow jumps cues of any type. You are not allowed to jump. Period. But that applies to everyone (much like the BCA rulings). In the tournaments, no one cries about not being able to jump or masse' a ball. Because it's the rules. Period. We accept it and move on.

If you are not able to accept these rule changes, and deem them unfair to you because it takes away from your game.... so be it.

Maybe getting better at jumping, or breaking would help you overcome your dependency.

I will continue to play by the rules set for all, and I will continue to progress.

GMAC
06-23-2009, 01:01 PM
Well I had plans of playing in vegas and Lincoln city but I love my bk2 and don't want to alter my tip or buy a different cue that I don't want to play with so I will go when they figure it out and remove the ban which I'm sure will be soon.

Visualize how angry players are going to get when told at the event that they can't use their break cue. Those guys probably won't come back. You ate going to lose money BCA and I don't think you thought this through.

Let it go man. There is no way you could be attached to your break cue that much unless it has a mouth and lips.:shocked:

BVal
06-23-2009, 01:07 PM
Let it go man. There is no way you could be attached to your break cue that much unless it has a mouth and lips.:shocked:
Holy crap that is funny!!!

BVal

SpiderWebComm
06-23-2009, 01:14 PM
Luxury is a really good poster. The more I think of it, this thread had to be related to his dog shitting on the carpet, an unexpected bill, or his Drumstick ice cream cone jipped him on the chocolate at the bottom (and you all know what I mean with that -- that's enraging).

Lux, you should honestly just take that bk2 hunk of shizznit and break it into 10000 pieces on your driveway and post the pictures and tell Mark you just had a bad day. I break with my playing cue. My break cue has a bridge-head at the end of it and serves as my mechanical bridge under my table.

That thing never won you a game ever--- show that over-hyped piece of balsa wood how you feel about that and post the splinter pics. Turn this upside-down thread into something memorable and epic.

BVal
06-23-2009, 01:16 PM
Luxury is a really good poster. The more I think of it, this thread had to be related to his dog shitting on the carpet, an unexpected bill, or his Drumstick ice cream cone jipped him on the chocolate at the bottom (and you know what I mean with that -- that's enraging).

Lux, you should honestly just take that bk2 hunk of shizznit and break it into 10000 pieces on your driveway and post the pictures and tell Mark you just had a bad day. I break with my playing cue. My break cue has a bridge-head at the end of it and serves as my mechanical bridge under my table.

That thing never won you a game ever--- show that over-hyped piece of balsa wood how you feel about that and post the splinter pics. Turn this upside thread into something memorable and epic.
I have to agree.

On a side note - I have always been super curious what the inside of a BK2 looks like.

BVal

SpiderWebComm
06-23-2009, 01:26 PM
I have to agree.

On a side note - I have always been super curious what the inside of a BK2 looks like.

BVal

If he busts the bk2 into pieces and posts the pics as a sacrifice to the BCAPL, I'll FedEx him my break cue. My break cue is an under-the-radar custom... a production modded-up with a special joint and tip. Well, he can tear off the phenolic tip and put a water buffalo or something. My cue is prob worth $100 and I guarantee it breaks better than bk2, bk3, bk-whatevers.

Break cues are so gimmicky it's a joke.

Big Perm
06-23-2009, 01:31 PM
If he busts the bk2 into pieces and posts the pics as a sacrifice to the BCAPL, I'll FedEx him my break cue. My break cue is an under-the-radar custom... a production modded-up with a special joint and tip. Well, he can tear off the phenolic tip and put a water buffalo or something. My cue is prob worth $100 and I guarantee it breaks better than bk2, bk3, bk-whatevers.

Break cues are so gimmicky it's a joke.

Guys, this is serious.....this rule change is gonna cost the BCAPGAXNFL millions of dollars.....even worse, it just might enrage manbearpig....I just spoke with trapperkeeper, and he is pissed...:angry:

Milo
06-23-2009, 01:34 PM
If he busts the bk2 into pieces and posts the pics as a sacrifice to the BCAPL, I'll FedEx him my break cue. My break cue is an under-the-radar custom... a production modded-up with a special joint and tip. Well, he can tear off the phenolic tip and put a water buffalo or something. My cue is prob worth $100 and I guarantee it breaks better than bk2, bk3, bk-whatevers.

Break cues are so gimmicky it's a joke.

Good Post Dave :smile:

I will have to admit, I have an original BK.(bought it for $200 :embarrassed2:) It doesnt break any better than my cheapy break cue I sold to buy it.

Honestly, I bought into the idea that I wanted what was popular.
I SEE ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE in how I break. :smile:

BTW, anyone want to buy an orginal BK.:D

Cuebacca
06-23-2009, 01:56 PM
The BCAPL may have taken away the hardest tips, but at least they let me rack my own balls, which is a way bigger help to my break than a tip could ever be.

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to break with my "canvas resin" tip. I can control the cue ball just fine with it, and it doesn't require any maintenance. Plus it's not loud like other phenolics. I will keep using it where I can, and find some other solution to be in compliance for rare events where I'm not allowed to use phenolic. In the end, it is not the most important element in my break.

I would rather let you chose my break cue and have me rack the balls than for me to chose my break cue and have you rack the balls.

By the way, what's up with that video? You make 4 balls, but lose the cue ball. You also lose the cue ball in all the breaks in your BreakRAK video. So where is this great break of yours with the BK2? Surely you don't claim that 4 balls is typical 9-ball break for you. I'd be way more impressed if you posted a video of several breaks in a row where you hit the rack hard and stopped the cue ball in the center of the table, even if nothing dropped on any of them.

Rich93
06-23-2009, 02:03 PM
Obviously, the BCAPL ruling would have gone down better a few years ago before phenolic tipped break cues got into so many hands, but you have to start somewhere. They had to put a brake on the ingenuity of people trying to make a buck selling new types of equipment - the arms race, as I think of it. We've gone from leather to super hard leather to phenolic to ball-busting G10. Where was it supposed to stop? They had to do something, and fewer people will be upset now than a few years from now.

To Mark Griffin - Thank you for having the guts to suffer the slings and arrows. There is no doubt in my mind you have done the right thing. And, while I'm at it, thank you for all you have done for pool.

Klink
06-23-2009, 02:10 PM
I love my bk2 too!

Luxury
06-23-2009, 02:11 PM
Again, no one reads. When I posted the video I clearly state that in the video I was breaking with my old x breaker.

The BCAPL may have taken away the hardest tips, but at least they let me rack my own balls, which is a way bigger help to my break than a tip could ever be.

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to break with my "canvas resin" tip. I can control the cue ball just fine with it, and it doesn't require any maintenance. Plus it's not loud like other phenolics. I will keep using it where I can, and find some other solution to be in compliance for rare events where I'm not allowed to use phenolic. In the end, it is not the most important element in my break.

I would rather let you chose my break cue and have me rack the balls than for me to chose my break cue and have you rack the balls.

By the way, what's up with that video? You make 4 balls, but lose the cue ball. You also lose the cue ball in all the breaks in your BreakRAK video. So where is this great break of yours with the BK2? Surely you don't claim that 4 balls is typical 9-ball break for you. I'd be way more impressed if you posted a video of several breaks in a row where you hit the rack hard and stopped the cue ball in the center of the table, even if nothing dropped on any of them.

Cuebacca
06-23-2009, 02:19 PM
Again, no one reads. When I posted the video I clearly states that in the video I was breaking with my old x breaker.

Oh yeah. Sorry, I forgot; I read that post last night before going to bed. My reading comprehension may not have been the best at that hour.

To be fair, you, as well, missed the point of my statement... which was... you posted the video to show Mark how hard you worked on your break, but yet the video didn't demonstrate a good break.

Luxury
06-23-2009, 02:39 PM
Oh yeah. Sorry, I forgot; I read that post last night before going to bed. My reading comprehension may not have been the best at that hour.

To be fair, you, as well, missed the point of my statement... which was... you posted the video to show Mark how hard you worked on your break, but yet the video didn't demonstrate a good break.

No I got the point you were trying to make. I didn't miss it. I know that the video actually does show that I've worked hard on my break regardless of whether or not it was perfect. I'm not going to argue on an opinion of whether it was "good" or not. My opinion is it was good but not great and I think one can tell that I've worked hard on it.

Cuebacca
06-23-2009, 03:02 PM
No I got the point you were trying to make. I didn't miss it. I know that the video actually does show that I've worked hard on my break regardless of whether or not it was perfect. I'm not going to argue on an opinion of whether it was "good" or not. My opinion is it was good but not great and I think one can tell that I've worked hard on it.

If it is true that you've worked so hard on your break, then you will probably be able to adjust to a leather tip more easily than you expect to. IMO, the adjustment needed to go from breaking with phenolic to breaking with leather is less than the adjustment needed to go from breaking in big table 9-ball to breaking in bar box 8-ball.

In fact, since the breaks in the videos suggest that you're doing fine in the power department, but are lacking a little in control, the leather tip may actually improve your break.

The same could be said of my jumps (and perhaps my breaks too), and the BCAPL rule will ultimately lead to me switching to a leather jump tip even though it's not required.

BVal
06-23-2009, 03:12 PM
With a proper (tight) rack it is not necessary to break really hard. I use my player and break about 70% of my hardest possible break. The point is to make a ball and have another shot/control of the table.

BVal

sunnyday
06-23-2009, 03:13 PM
I tried to give them a logical warning as to what they stand to lose and all I got back was the realization that a certain CEO is on tilt and desperately needs a PR man to approve his public rants. LOL.

Luxury,

Stick to what you're great at - according to your own post, it's marketing and sales.

One thing we all know what you're not good at is ... giving warning - ha! LOL. Maybe, it wasn't threatening enough, or scary enough or just didn't make any sense:rolleyes: You should had applied your marketing skills to make the warning more serious and then maybe BCAPL would had jumped!

One thing for sure, it's a good thing you're not trying to become a real player! Yeah, with that certain CEO on tilt...

Oh, next time, don't take it so hard when someone doesn't take your warning seriously... really it's not worth it!

S.

bob b.
06-23-2009, 03:24 PM
Talk about sales & marketing.....a new shaft with a leather tip to fit all of those "popular" break cues. AND a booth at the Nationals selling them......LOL

poolpro
06-23-2009, 03:43 PM
You say that you worked very hard on your break, and you say that your good break is dependant on your cue (or at least implied that it would be severly diminished by not using it)..:confused:. These sound like opposite statements to me.

Also the video example you posted as evidence of said great break was accomplished with a DIFFERENT cue than the one you are so upset about not being able to use.

This means that you worked hard at your break, THEN changed to another break cue :eek:. Obviously there was some adjustments made, and you were able to move on. Yet you STILL claim to have a fantastic break ( even with this new cue).

You have already proven that not only is it possible to overcome this earth shattering handicap, but that you personally have done it yourself. Do it again, and have even more confidence in your ability.


There are always rules on equipment in any formal play. Just because I spent countless hours perfecting my techniques with my 32 ounce solid metal cue with no tip and a 3 inch 8 oz cue ball, DOES NOT give me any standing to expect to use it in formal competition.

It is no secret what the rules on equipment are. If players do not educate themselves on the rules, it is no ones fault but ther own. If they show up in sandals and cutoff shorts because they did not know there was a dress code, they will not be allowed to play. It is the players' responsibility to find out these things that are clearly stated if they choose to look.

Also, I have not heard a peep from "the masses" against the rule change. Any time ANYTHING changes , people will complain. Then most will get over it and move on ( as you will do at some point). I know, I have done it too.

I like my BK2, and would prefer to use it over a leather tipped break cue. I play in the APA, and I hate the rules of the APA. I do not show up every week complaining about their silly rules, like I am so suprised about it. I know the rules, and I play anyway. I would much rather play BCA rules, but I still manage to adapt and play fine anyway. My opponenet and I are both subject to the same rules.

It is like when someone keeps complaining about the table or the playing conditions. I am like "did the table change when it became your turn?". We are both playing on the same table. We have to contend with the exact same situation. Pool is a game of adjustments. It would be VERY unfair if they said that YOU were the only one not allowed to use a phenolic tip. Otherwise it is a fair rule, that they are well within their right to make.

Somehow, I do not feel that you are genuinely concerned about the BCAPL 's bottom line and profitabliity. If they proved that they could make more money by requiring every player to play with a brand X cue and specific brand of chalk, would you be okay with that as long as they were making more money?



Jw

Rich R.
06-23-2009, 04:56 PM
There are always rules on equipment in any formal play. Just because I spent countless hours perfecting my techniques with my 32 ounce solid metal cue with no tip and a 3 inch 8 oz cue ball, DOES NOT give me any standing to expect to use it in formal competition.

Your example doesn't make sense. Your ficticious 32 ounce cue and 3 inch cue ball were never legal. The phenolic tips have been legal for a number of years, with no problems. The BCAPL has decided to change what is legal, without any consideration for their members who were using this previous legal equipment.

I'm sure, if the BCAPL changed the rules, making your favorite playing cue, of the last ten years, illegal, you would be on the other side of this argument.

BVal
06-23-2009, 05:01 PM
Your example doesn't make sense. Your ficticious 32 ounce cue and 3 inch cue ball were never legal. The phenolic tips have been legal for a number of years, with no problems. The BCAPL has decided to change what is legal, without any consideration for their members who were using this previous legal equipment.

I'm sure, if the BCAPL changed the rules, making your favorite playing cue, of the last ten years, illegal, you would be on the other side of this argument.

That YOU were aware of.

Again it is really not that big of a deal. You just have to break with a leather tip. Just like every other single BCAPL player that plays in the regionals and nationals.

That is the rule - now it is your choice on what you want to do.
Is your favorite playing your your pehnolic tipped break cue? If not then I don't understand the comparison.

BVal

Rich R.
06-23-2009, 05:15 PM
That YOU were aware of.

Again it is really not that big of a deal. You just have to break with a leather tip. Just like every other single BCAPL player that plays in the regionals and nationals.

That is the rule - now it is your choice on what you want to do.
Is your favorite playing your your pehnolic tipped break cue? If not then I don't understand the comparison.

BVal

The comparison is that players are being forced, for no good reason, to stop using a piece of equipment that has been legal for years and is sitll legal in other organizations.

I would still like to see the proof that the phenolic tips were damaging cue balls. As I have said before, I have seen cue balls damaged in a number of ways, but never by being hit with a phenolic tip. I contend that there is more force involved in the collision of the cue ball with the head ball on the rack than there is between the cue tip and the cue ball.

BTW, we all know that room owners complain about every little thing, but I have never heard one complain about cue balls being damaged from phenolic tips. Frankly, I don't believe it happens.

poolpro
06-23-2009, 05:20 PM
Your example doesn't make sense. Your ficticious 32 ounce cue and 3 inch cue ball were never legal. The phenolic tips have been legal for a number of years, with no problems. The BCAPL has decided to change what is legal, without any consideration for their members who were using this previous legal equipment.

I'm sure, if the BCAPL changed the rules, making your favorite playing cue, of the last ten years, illegal, you would be on the other side of this argument.

I was merely responding to the argument that countless hours of practice with a piece of equipment justifies it somehow. It was a direct response to a paticular set of reasoning, and in THAT context it was an applicable example.

I did say that I do own, use and prefer the same exact cue (BK2). So, yes, I am still on the same side of the argument- and NOT in a hypothetical way.

Okay, then take the break box for some of the pro tournaments. They made a rule change that it WAS legal to break from anywhere behind the headstring, and then all of a sudden it was NOT. I think that is more of an adjustment than this example. This was limiting not just the equipment used, but the whole dynamic of the break shot. Not everyone was happy about that either. What happened? The players adjusted.



Let me say, I would rather use my BK2 in any competitive situation. I HAVE played at national BCA events. If it were soley MY decision, I would allow the use of phenolic tips. I am only saying that it is their right to make the change, and it is the players responsibility to know the rules and what the legal specs are when choosing to play in ANY organized event of any kind.

You have to be able to adjust to play the game well. It is like blaming the table for poor play. "Well, on MY table, I would have won!" does not really carry any weight with me. What I really like about such players is that when things are going bad for them it is always the equipment, but if things turn around for them, they still take all the credit! I tell them "If you are going to blame the table for all your losses, then you should give all the credit to the table when you win" They never seem to get it. You can't have it both ways. You do not get to take all the credit without ANY responsibilty.

If the cue is really what determines who the winner will be, then why bother playing the tournamnet at all. Just have everyone open their cue case and see who should win based on that. "Okay , well it looks like Joe is the winner. You guys obviously don't stand a chance, I mean look at that cue he has!" Talk about the BCA saving some real money! They could skip the whole tournamnet! No balls, cloth OR even tables! That would cut their costs way down!:D


Jw

Luxury
06-23-2009, 05:20 PM
Well it looks like this ruling will remain a mystery to me. Making countless broke players pay money for new equipment and lose there favorite stick which they now feel they wasted hundereds on should only be done for a very very good reason.

Mike said it's NOT about the cost of replacing balls or cloth it's about damaging equipment. I don't get that. Probably never will. A lot of people agree with me but a lot also feel I've tainted the forum and I agree so I apologize for that and won't debate anymore regardless of how passionate I feel about it.

Guaranteed last post in this thread from me. You are welcome.

BVal
06-23-2009, 05:26 PM
The comparison is that players are being forced, for no good reason, to stop using a piece of equipment that has been legal for years and is sitll legal in other organizations.

I would still like to see the proof that the phenolic tips were damaging cue balls. As I have said before, I have seen cue balls damaged in a number of ways, but never by being hit with a phenolic tip. I contend that there is more force involved in the collision of the cue ball with the head ball on the rack than there is between the cue tip and the cue ball.

BTW, we all know that room owners complain about every little thing, but I have never heard one complain about cue balls being damaged from phenolic tips. Frankly, I don't believe it happens.
Again you are assuming a lot of things that you dont' know. Honestly, I can't believe I am even wasting any energy on this non topic. Good day. Break well.

BVal

poolpro
06-23-2009, 05:26 PM
The comparison is that players are being forced, for no good reason, to stop using a piece of equipment that has been legal for years and is sitll legal in other organizations.

I would still like to see the proof that the phenolic tips were damaging cue balls. As I have said before, I have seen cue balls damaged in a number of ways, but never by being hit with a phenolic tip. I contend that there is more force involved in the collision of the cue ball with the head ball on the rack than there is between the cue tip and the cue ball.

BTW, we all know that room owners complain about every little thing, but I have never heard one complain about cue balls being damaged from phenolic tips. Frankly, I don't believe it happens.

So you are saying that AFTER the cue tip hits the cue ball ( and leaves the tip of the cue), the ball actually INCREASES its momentum before hitting the head ball? Where does this extra energy come from? The friction of the cloth is ADDING velocity to the cue ball?

So you have the energy in your arm transferred through the cue and narrowly focused on a 13-14mm phenolic tip--- this energy is transferred to the cue ball---- THEN at some point before coming into contact with the head ball ( with a larger surface area) of the rack the cueball has MORE force? What happened and where to add this force as you suggest? I would be very interested in knowing your technique in achieving this:rolleyes::confused:


Also, they have enough proof for them. They do not need to prove it to you at all. They are able to change the rules as they see fit. Everyone else has the right to complain about it, and either adjust, or not play.

Jw

Mowem down
06-23-2009, 05:48 PM
I know countless league players, have been to vegas 7 times have scene hundreds of league players and frankly, most of them suck at pool (including me and Im a 8 in the apa). these people cant break their way out of a wet zig zag but their doing all this damage.

I know for a fact i can hit the ball 28.5 (in uncomfertable conditions) Luxury breaks pritty dang hard (maybe not accurate enough for some to call it a good break) and I cant think of many in are area that break as good as either of us. so who is causeing all this "damage". and just how hard do you have to break to do damage. Ive scene Allison break, in person, under the gun its a whopping 18 mph every time. Im betting the average speed for league players is 15 to 18 mph. That aint doing squat. like I said, my cue ball has been pounded to death and it rolls just fine.

If there is 3000 players at a national tourney how many are breaking over 25 mph, it isnt 100. Ive been in many a break contest 26 27 28 are hard to find. my favorite was when the guy goes to get his buddy who "regularily breaks house cues when he breaks" he steps up and fires a 21, I couldnt help but laugh..

poolpro
06-23-2009, 05:49 PM
Well it looks like this ruling will remain a mystery to me. Making countless broke players pay money for new equipment and lose there favorite stick which they now feel they wasted hundereds on should only be done for a very very good reason.

Mike said it's NOT about the cost of replacing balls or cloth it's about damaging equipment. I don't get that. Probably never will. A lot of people agree with me but a lot also feel I've tainted the forum and I agree so I apologize for that and won't debate anymore regardless of how passionate I feel about it.

Guaranteed last post in this thread from me. You are welcome.


Hey, just to be clear- I did not mean any of my posts as a direct attack on you. I get it.

If you just said " hey, that really sucks that I can't use my favorite break cue anymore", I would say I agree with you. I am on the same side as far as that goes.

It is when you went on a grand campaign acting like you were the mouthpiece of every downhearted pool player out there, while at the same time losing sleep over the profitablility of the BCAPL, that I felt compelled to throw in my two cents. It really just comes down to you not being happy about not using your fav cue. I think everyone can understand and agree with that. I know I do.

Just say " that stinks" and call it a day. If this is the worst it gets, it can't be that bad!:thumbup:

No need to respond. Just thought I would throw that out there.


Jw

pooltchr
06-23-2009, 06:08 PM
I can't believe anyone would quit a league just because they make a rule about what kind of tips are allowed. I've been in rooms for tournaments where the sign on the wall said "No Jump Shots and No Masse' Shots" and it was enforced!

Deal with the rules. Everybody will have to, if they want to play.

Steve

gsm1sw
06-23-2009, 08:54 PM
Somehow I am missing something. The op believes the BCAPL will lose money but then he admits that even he isn't going to quit playing in the league. If somebody so adamant against the rule change wont vote with his wallet then where does he think the lost money will be from? It seems to be the usual, open mouth, spout out a bunch of b.s and then when it actually comes to action it's "umm nevermind".

Personally, I could not care less about the rule. Never own a phenolic. And it seems I agree with @ 80% of the other people who voted that the BCAPL will not lose money.

JDB
06-23-2009, 09:29 PM
Somehow I am missing something. The op believes the BCAPL will lose money but then he admits that even he isn't going to quit playing in the league. If somebody so adamant against the rule change wont vote with his wallet then where does he think the lost money will be from? It seems to be the usual, open mouth, spout out a bunch of b.s and then when it actually comes to action it's "umm nevermind".

Personally, I could not care less about the rule. Never own a phenolic. And it seems I agree with @ 80% of the other people who voted that the BCAPL will not lose money.

The OP was talking about losing money at the annual event, not weekly play. Based on everything that I read most local leagues will not have the same rule, it is only applicable at national events. Therefore, the OP was thinking that a lot of players, including himself, would forego the national event due to this rule.

DogsPlayingPool
06-23-2009, 09:57 PM
The OP was talking about losing money at the annual event, not weekly play. Based on everything that I read most local leagues will not have the same rule, it is only applicable at national events. Therefore, the OP was thinking that a lot of players, including himself, would forego the national event due to this rule.

???

Here's the title of the thread:

Will BCA lose more money to players switching leagues than it costs to replace balls?

It seems pretty clear the OP is about the loss of money from people switching to another league, not just about a lower head count at the National event. Frankly, if the rule will only apply at the Nationals, it becomes even less of an issue, and the thread poll results suggest it is a non-issue to begin with.

ftgokie
06-23-2009, 11:52 PM
I dont and have never used a phenolic tip.....and I can usually pocket as many balls if not more balls than the people in my league that are using a phenolic tip (which is only 3)

I think its funny over all the uproar on the ban of these tips...I feel if your going to quit because of a tip, then you dont love the game as much as I do. I am not going to quit playing pool because I cant use a certain tip...I willl just use what is not banned and make the best of it

JDB
06-24-2009, 06:30 AM
???

Here's the title of the thread:

Will BCA lose more money to players switching leagues than it costs to replace balls?

It seems pretty clear the OP is about the loss of money from people switching to another league, not just about a lower head count at the National event. Frankly, if the rule will only apply at the Nationals, it becomes even less of an issue, and the thread poll results suggest it is a non-issue to begin with.

You are correct based on the title of the thread and I am mistaken. It appeared in most of his posts he was talking about the nationals, which is why interpreted it like that; however, clearly from the thread title you are correct.

DogsPlayingPool
06-24-2009, 07:34 AM
You are correct based on the title of the thread and I am mistaken. It appeared in most of his posts he was talking about the nationals, which is why interpreted it like that; however, clearly from the thread title you are correct.

Completely understandable. I think what happened is Mark Griffin came in around page 3 and clarified the rule for the OP, explaining that it only applied at the National and nationally run regional events and that the individual weekly leagues are not automatically bound to adopt the policy. That's when some of the focus of the discussion changed. :thumbup:

Hungarian
12-03-2012, 10:20 AM
Now I realize why Luxury is so critical of other people's polls. It's because he's taken such a blood bath on his own polls so it makes him feel just a little bit better to criticize others. That's some disturbing shite..

Well it looks like this ruling will remain a mystery to me. Making countless broke players pay money for new equipment and lose there favorite stick which they now feel they wasted hundereds on should only be done for a very very good reason.

Mike said it's NOT about the cost of replacing balls or cloth it's about damaging equipment. I don't get that. Probably never will. A lot of people agree with me but a lot also feel I've tainted the forum and I agree so I apologize for that and won't debate anymore regardless of how passionate I feel about it.

Guaranteed last post in this thread from me. You are welcome.

Txstang1
12-03-2012, 01:47 PM
I've never owned a beak cue, so I find this completely laughable.

justadub
12-03-2012, 01:53 PM
I've never owned a beak cue, so I find this completely laughable.

What's laughable is dredging up a three year old thread that isnt even topical any longer (since the ban has been rescinded) only to make a point about polls...

Hungarian
12-03-2012, 02:10 PM
Yes, that is funny. You must have missed it but what else is laughable is how vehemently this OP criticizes just about every poll that comes out for how stupid the poll is and how much of a failure the polling results are.


What's laughable is dredging up a three year old thread that isnt even topical any longer (since the ban has been rescinded) only to make a point about polls...

Txstang1
12-03-2012, 02:12 PM
I didnt notice it was an old thread. Oh well.

RunoutJJ
12-03-2012, 02:23 PM
What's laughable is dredging up a three year old thread that isnt even topical any longer (since the ban has been rescinded) only to make a point about polls...


U mad bro???


:lol:

Mr Hoppe
12-03-2012, 02:25 PM
Yes, that is funny. You must have missed it but what else is laughable is how vehemently this OP criticizes just about every poll that comes out for how stupid the poll is and how much of a failure the polling results are.

Save the drama for your mama and stop bumping 3 1/2 year old threads. Get a tissue and go sob quietly if that's what you need to do.

Hungarian
12-03-2012, 02:28 PM
Yo mama is so old that that when she was in school there was no history class.


Save the drama for your mama and stop bumping 3 1/2 year old threads. Get a tissue and go sob quietly if that's what you need to do.

briankenobi
12-03-2012, 02:55 PM
Wow what a thread. Here is my 2 cents. First off, I am the owner of an original Pechaur Break (the 5th one ever sold) that has the white diamond phenolic tip on it. I love the cue and so does half my in house league team. That being said, if I go to a tournement or a league that says no phenolic, then I will break with an older break cue. Getting another shaft for your break cue is also possbile depending on the cue. Pechaur now has a leather tip for their break cue which I could use to change out.

This next part is a reply lo Luxury.

First off, I don't know you nor do I have any beef with you. You said in your response to Mark Griffin that "no one should ever had to change thier break cue." No offense but that is a childish thought process. What makes you so special? That is like going to a Chinese restaurant and ordering a hamburger when they don't offer one and demanding them accomodate you. Adaptation is a big thing in all sports. Defensive backs had to adapt to the new rules on head to head collisions. It is no different with us. You sound like a good player with a good break. I have a good break too. You got your break where it is by practicing and fine tuning. Why can't you do that with another tip/cue? It's not like it is going to take you the same amount of time to do that. You already have the fundamentals down. Shouldn't take longer than a week IMO. Again, nothing personal.

elvicash
12-03-2012, 03:16 PM
How old is this thread. I think this is now a dead issue so perhaps this thread should be left alone.

Hungarian
12-03-2012, 03:19 PM
To answer your question this thread is about 3 years and 6 months old.

This thread was brought up as evidence that I am not the only one with stupid polls. Luxury has been critical of many polls here on AZB and so being childish, I found this stupid poll that he started.

Please don't be mad bro..

How old is this thread. I think this is now a dead issue so perhaps this thread should be left alone.

Luxury
12-03-2012, 03:46 PM
I edited the first post so no one will waste too much time reading an old thread. I know I've unknowingly read an old thread and was annoyed at the end when it's pointed out that someone had just bumped it.

Hungarian
12-03-2012, 05:55 PM
Thanks but my preferences are set up to see the last post first.

I edited the first post so no one will waste too much time reading an old thread. I know I've unknowingly read an old thread and was annoyed at the end when it's pointed out that someone had just bumped it.

The Renfro
12-03-2012, 06:02 PM
THIS IS AN OLD THREAD>>>>

NOTHING OF VALUE TO SEE HERE!!!!!

If you like old threads resurrected for no reason search for pocketpoint...

There now even if you are sorted newest first you are covered =)

and yeah I'm mad I was totally lost when I started on page 1 LOL

Hungarian
12-03-2012, 06:24 PM
You guys take this way to seriously.

Chillax and enjoy the magic

Celtic
12-03-2012, 06:27 PM
Now I realize why Luxury is so critical of other people's polls. It's because he's taken such a blood bath on his own polls so it makes him feel just a little bit better to criticize others. That's some disturbing shite..

Disturbing is that you spent a huge amount of time going through his posting history just to find this antiquated thread so you could use it as a "gotcha!". You have WAY too much spare time on your hands sir.

Hungarian
12-03-2012, 06:35 PM
Disturbing is that you spent a huge amount of time going through his posting history just to find this antiquated thread so you could use it as a "gotcha!". You have WAY too much spare time on your hands sir.

Celtic,

Thanks for your input. Regarding time, it took only a few minutes to find. I simply searched all post made by Luxury and scrolled through until I found a poll. This was the first poll and a very stupid one.

Cheers,
Hung

xplor
12-03-2012, 06:52 PM
Phenolic tips should fail at the same or higher rate as cue balls.After all this time has any one noticed this?