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9BallPaul
06-24-2009, 08:47 PM
Browsing in a sporting goods store today and I happened upon a section with cheap pool cues. One caught my eye -- all black, made of graphite, with the name Mizerak placed discreetly on the butt. For $30 bucks, I figured it was worth a gamble.

I fish with graphite fly rods, and am a big fan of how they perform. I'd never heard of graphite as a cue material, nor seen it discussed on this forum, though I confess I don't pore over every post or even every thread.

Anyway, I took this cue home, worked over the tip, then began playing with it. At first I laughed out loud, if felt so crappy. But I hung with it, and then a funny thing happened -- it began to work for me.

The graphite truly delivers a different hit. I'm thinking of investing a few more bucks on a better tip and seeing if this baby will work for me.

Anyone else used this cue?

McChen
06-25-2009, 09:25 AM
i tried someone's graphite cue a very long time ago, in the 90's. as i recall it made a weird pinging sound every time you hit the ball. and it vibrated weirdly. that was hard to get used to. and it was sticky. i did not really like it at all.

tjlmbklr
06-25-2009, 09:34 AM
Browsing in a sporting goods store today and I happened upon a section with cheap pool cues. One caught my eye -- all black, made of graphite, with the name Mizerak placed discreetly on the butt. For $30 bucks, I figured it was worth a gamble.

I fish with graphite fly rods, and am a big fan of how they perform. I'd never heard of graphite as a cue material, nor seen it discussed on this forum, though I confess I don't pore over every post or even every thread.

Anyway, I took this cue home, worked over the tip, then began playing with it. At first I laughed out loud, if felt so crappy. But I hung with it, and then a funny thing happened -- it began to work for me.

The graphite truly delivers a different hit. I'm thinking of investing a few more bucks on a better tip and seeing if this baby will work for me.

Anyone else used this cue?

No no no no no no no no, BAD, don't do it! If you were in front of me I would say NO no no no no no no, just like I am now. Graphite, fiberglass, they all suck!

joeboxer
06-25-2009, 11:13 AM
Browsing in a sporting goods store today and I happened upon a section with cheap pool cues. One caught my eye -- all black, made of graphite, with the name Mizerak placed discreetly on the butt. For $30 bucks, I figured it was worth a gamble.

I fish with graphite fly rods, and am a big fan of how they perform. I'd never heard of graphite as a cue material, nor seen it discussed on this forum, though I confess I don't pore over every post or even every thread.

Anyway, I took this cue home, worked over the tip, then began playing with it. At first I laughed out loud, if felt so crappy. But I hung with it, and then a funny thing happened -- it began to work for me.

The graphite truly delivers a different hit. I'm thinking of investing a few more bucks on a better tip and seeing if this baby will work for me.

Anyone else used this cue?

If you like it, and it works for you, then use it. Nothing wrong with that.

highrun55
06-25-2009, 11:59 AM
Some people love them, personal choice,
I think they make great break cues

highrun55

poolplayer2093
06-25-2009, 12:04 PM
Browsing in a sporting goods store today and I happened upon a section with cheap pool cues. One caught my eye -- all black, made of graphite, with the name Mizerak placed discreetly on the butt. For $30 bucks, I figured it was worth a gamble.

I fish with graphite fly rods, and am a big fan of how they perform. I'd never heard of graphite as a cue material, nor seen it discussed on this forum, though I confess I don't pore over every post or even every thread.

Anyway, I took this cue home, worked over the tip, then began playing with it. At first I laughed out loud, if felt so crappy. But I hung with it, and then a funny thing happened -- it began to work for me.

The graphite truly delivers a different hit. I'm thinking of investing a few more bucks on a better tip and seeing if this baby will work for me.

Anyone else used this cue?


i know i don't know you but you just lost a cool point

if you really do dig it though it's not a big deal to spend 4-10 bucks on a new tip. hell at least it'll scare up some action

poolhustler
06-25-2009, 12:08 PM
I heard that really old, senile, beer drinking, waterboarding, pool players love them !!!!
















J/K Paul, you know I love you........:D

Jude Rosenstock
06-25-2009, 12:09 PM
Has anyone tried the Mizerak cue with an OB1 shaft?

stormshadow1
06-25-2009, 12:11 PM
That is the kind of cue that equals instant action.If you can play with it I say f*ck it.Find your worst case and head to the nearest pool hall right now!

Caromsoft
06-26-2009, 01:02 AM
Has anyone tried the Mizerak cue with an OB1 shaft?
My OB-1 has the same joint as my first cue, a Halex graphite, but it doesn't screw down all the way so I didn't want to risk it...otherwise I would try it! :)

sfleinen
06-26-2009, 07:32 AM
Paul:

Interesting you bring this up. Early on in my pool "experience" (rather than say "career"), I'd had a cue like that (an all-graphite one) for the same reasons -- "hey, if they make fishing rods and fighter jets out of this stuff, it probably is more than qualified to make a really tough cue." It actually played quite well, and darn if the thing wasn't truly indestructible (I put it in my car's trunk, knowing that graphite isn't vulnerable to the same things that wood is). I actually ended up selling it for much more than I purchased it for (even after owning it for a couple years), because some player that I let borrow the cue, fell in love with it, and wanted it right then and there for the same reason -- a good cue he could throw in the trunk for hustlin' purposes.

The interesting thing with graphite is that man is in complete control of it, unlike wood. Man can weave that stuff into any shape imaginable, and can make it have just about any property he/she wants. Carbon/graphite is extremely resilient, doesn't warp (they make the F-117, B-1, and F-22 Raptor out of it, and that stuff has to endure extreme physical and temperature conditions!), doesn't corrode/discolor, and doesn't need maintenance. The only downfall? It doesn't have the perceived "feel" of wood. But remember, wood is wood, and each and every cut is unique. There's no guarantee that two cues made from the same block of wood -- much less from the same tree -- will have the same look or feel. It's just the luck of the draw. Graphite, on the other hand, can be engineered to have any feel that the designer wants -- it's all in the weave and the grade of graphite used.

Thus then, why hasn't a line of custom high-end cues made of graphite appeared on the market? Perception. It's perceived to be "cheesy" and no high-end or reasonably reputable cue maker will go near the stuff. It's a shame, actually. Imagine a workhorse cue that has the "feel" of a wood cue (or perhaps a feel even better than one -- man can certainly engineer that), but yet is indestructible -- no warping, highly ding-resistant? Granted, Mother Nature certainly does have the best aesthetics when it comes to wood -- there's nothing more beautiful than a cue with grain properties that bring it distinctive character. But foregoing grain properties, graphite can be made in any color (Henry Ford's Model "T" motto of, "you can have any color you want, as long as it's black" doesn't apply here), can have any designs integrated into the weave or inlays cut into it, etc.

I'd say don't worry about what the naysayers/old-schoolers/purists (fundamentalists?) try to impress upon you. If a graphite cue is working for you, you have a cue that's going to last and last and have a consistent feel every day -- not vulnerable to environmental conditions as wood is. And, as others have stated, this cue might attract you some action, if this interests you. If you really play well with it -- which it sounds like you adapted to it very quickly -- you'll really mess with your fishes' heads! Remember, Efren did some of his early career's best with a $10 cue (halfway down into this article (http://margarita-station.com/efrenreyes.html) there's a good writeup about this).

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean

Browsing in a sporting goods store today and I happened upon a section with cheap pool cues. One caught my eye -- all black, made of graphite, with the name Mizerak placed discreetly on the butt. For $30 bucks, I figured it was worth a gamble.

I fish with graphite fly rods, and am a big fan of how they perform. I'd never heard of graphite as a cue material, nor seen it discussed on this forum, though I confess I don't pore over every post or even every thread.

Anyway, I took this cue home, worked over the tip, then began playing with it. At first I laughed out loud, if felt so crappy. But I hung with it, and then a funny thing happened -- it began to work for me.

The graphite truly delivers a different hit. I'm thinking of investing a few more bucks on a better tip and seeing if this baby will work for me.

Anyone else used this cue?

9BallPaul
06-26-2009, 07:42 AM
Now that's in informed poster! Thanks. I actually own a couple expensive cues that I'm very fond of, but my plan for this stick is to keep it in my truck so that I've always got something to shoot with. And if it acts like a magnet for action, I'm up for that too.

Of course I'm attracted to the high-end cues, but playability trumps aesthetics every time, at least for me. Thanks for the great post, sfleinen.





Paul:

Interesting you bring this up. Early on in my pool "experience" (rather than say "career"), I'd had a cue like that (an all-graphite one) for the same reasons -- "hey, if they make fishing rods and fighter jets out of this stuff, it probably is more than qualified to make a really tough cue." It actually played quite well, and darn if the thing wasn't truly indestructible (I put it in my car's trunk, knowing that graphite isn't vulnerable to the same things that wood is). I actually ended up selling it for much more than I purchased it for (even after owning it for a couple years), because some player that I let borrow the cue, fell in love with it, and wanted it right then and there for the same reason -- a good cue he could throw in the trunk for hustlin' purposes.

The interesting thing with graphite is that man is in complete control of it, unlike wood. Man can weave that stuff into any shape imaginable, and can make it have just about any property he/she wants. Carbon/graphite is extremely resilient, doesn't warp (they make the F-117, B-1, and F-22 Raptor out of it, and that stuff has to endure extreme physical and temperature conditions!), doesn't corrode/discolor, and doesn't need maintenance. The only downfall? It doesn't have the perceived "feel" of wood. But remember, wood is wood, and each and every cut is unique. There's no guarantee that two cues made from the same block of wood -- much less from the same tree -- will have the same look or feel. It's just the luck of the draw. Graphite, on the other hand, can be engineered to have any feel that the designer wants -- it's all in the weave and the grade of graphite used.

Thus then, why hasn't a line of custom high-end cues made of graphite appeared on the market? Perception. It's perceived to be "cheesy" and no high-end or reasonably reputable cue maker will go near the stuff. It's a shame, actually. Imagine a workhorse cue that has the "feel" of a wood cue (or perhaps a feel even better than one -- man can certainly engineer that), but yet is indestructible -- no warping, highly ding-resistant? Granted, Mother Nature certainly does have the best aesthetics when it comes to wood -- there's nothing more beautiful than a cue with grain properties that bring it distinctive character. But foregoing grain properties, graphite can be made in any color (Henry Ford's Model "T" motto of, "you can have any color you want, as long as it's black" doesn't apply here), can have any designs integrated into the weave or inlays cut into it, etc.

I'd say don't worry about what the naysayers/old-schoolers/purists (fundamentalists?) try to impress upon you. If a graphite cue is working for you, you have a cue that's going to last and last and have a consistent feel every day -- not vulnerable to environmental conditions as wood is. And, as others have stated, this cue might attract you some action, if this interests you. If you really play well with it -- which it sounds like you adapted to it very quickly -- you'll really mess with your fishes' heads! Remember, Efren did some of his early career's best with a $10 cue (halfway down into this article (http://margarita-station.com/efrenreyes.html) there's a good writeup about this).

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean

conetip
06-26-2009, 08:50 AM
I make a high end carbon fiber pool cue and shafts. The shafts are being tested by some good players that seem to like them so far.
I have only been making custom cues and have a new shaft since people tried it at the Valley Forge expo.
The new shaft gets quite a bit more action on the cue ball and is in the low deflection range.
The shafts are all carbon , not carbon over wood.
On my playing cue, the front shaft weighs 1.6 oz with a tip .The handle is weighted front heavy so when it is all assembled the balance point is 1020 to 1040 mm from the tip with the cue in the 16 oz range.
Recent customers cues have been 17 and 18 oz woth the same balance point.
The hit and feel is different to a wood cue.
Neil

3kushn
06-26-2009, 09:40 AM
I make a high end carbon fiber pool cue and shafts. The shafts are being tested by some good players that seem to like them so far.
I have only been making custom cues and have a new shaft since people tried it at the Valley Forge expo.
The new shaft gets quite a bit more action on the cue ball and is in the low deflection range.
The shafts are all carbon , not carbon over wood.
On my playing cue, the front shaft weighs 1.6 oz with a tip .The handle is weighted front heavy so when it is all assembled the balance point is 1020 to 1040 mm from the tip with the cue in the 16 oz range.
Recent customers cues have been 17 and 18 oz woth the same balance point.
The hit and feel is different to a wood cue.
Neil
Here's the difference. Conetip is taking it to a new level. A $30 cue is just that. Most of the graphite cues are low end and attract customers that have heard or experienced other graphite products. I have graphite fishing rods in the range of $200-$800. By the way you can purchase fairly decent graphite rods for $35. Why do I pay more? There's a big difference in sensitivity and weight.

Nobody except Conetip has taken this technology seriously and therefore all that's out there is products from manufacturers that have the machinery and say that's easy, all we need is the tooling to basically make a cone and glue in a joint. Our cost - $5.

With a 1.6oz (45+ grams) weight for a shaft vs over twice the weight, think of the flexibility in pinpointing custom balance points.

I think it's got potential if the research is done, but for now I think I'll stay with my Full splice Dieckman solid cedar shaft.

Manoman2444
06-26-2009, 09:48 AM
I've used the graphite cues before, but the best hitting cue for me was the Halex titanium (of all those type cues). I think it cost $27 and it outplays most of the 20 cues I have. My most expensive cue is about $700 and it outplays some of them. You can also use a little silicone spray on the shafts of those cues (spray on rag and wipe), makes them very slick.

sfleinen
06-26-2009, 02:24 PM
You know, I gotta give Conetip some kudos (and some rep, in the process). I firmly believe graphite is one of those materials that stands the best chance at being the best alternative to wood for cues -- much, much better than fiberglass.

3kushn does raise an interesting question about the cost of the low-end graphite cues, vs. the product that Conetip puts out. I'm sure the graphite cue products that Conetip offers are very unique and fly in the face of the perception that graphite cues = cheap and cheesy.

However, what an inexpensive graphite cue of the type that I used to have, and 9BallPaul currently has, is the ability to throw it in the trunk without worry. And if it gets stolen, ah, what the heck, another trip to the sporting goods store to plop down another $30 (read: no biggie).

One poster on here mentioned putting an OB-1/OB-2 shaft on a graphite cue, but I think this misses the point. That combination I certainly would *not* throw in the trunk (all the positives about the graphite cue is negated by sticking a wood shaft on it), and I certainly *would* be concerned if it got stolen (losing an OB-1/OB-2 shaft is not an inexpensive proposition).

I'd certainly consider a high-end graphite cue product as my main player -- something that, like my current main player(s), I keep with me at all times -- never to be thrown in the trunk, because they are simply not "commodity" and would certainly be missed if stolen. Nice thing about this type of cue, is that due to the resiliency of graphite, it could replace my breaker as well (i.e. break with my playing cue).

Great posts on this topic!
-Sean

Here's the difference. Conetip is taking it to a new level. A $30 cue is just that. Most of the graphite cues are low end and attract customers that have heard or experienced other graphite products. I have graphite fishing rods in the range of $200-$800. By the way you can purchase fairly decent graphite rods for $35. Why do I pay more? There's a big difference in sensitivity and weight.

Nobody except Conetip has taken this technology seriously and therefore all that's out there is products from manufacturers that have the machinery and say that's easy, all we need is the tooling to basically make a cone and glue in a joint. Our cost - $5.

With a 1.6oz (45+ grams) weight for a shaft vs over twice the weight, think of the flexibility in pinpointing custom balance points.

I think it's got potential if the research is done, but for now I think I'll stay with my Full splice Dieckman solid cedar shaft.

Dead Crab
06-26-2009, 05:14 PM
It is worth noting that McDermott and Cuetec are both making hybrid shafts with a carbon core, and a wood skin.In fact, the G-Core, has become McD's standard shaft.

This would seemingly have the benefits of of synthetic (reduced risk of warpage, decreased vibration, improved straightness), as well as incorporating the feel and feedback of wood. Could be the future.

Regarding cheap graphite-skin cues, I have one, and I've gotten a lot of mileage out of it. It breaks well, and is dead straight. The pivot point is also well placed for me. I'm gonna put an Elkmaster on it and see how it behaves. If it plays well, I got a car cue. If not, it gets another hard tip and stays on as a breaker.

TX Poolnut
06-26-2009, 05:27 PM
I've never owned a graphite cue.

fsarfino
06-26-2009, 06:27 PM
I played one once and the hit IMO was horrible. The best part about it was the noise that it made when breaking.

That sound makes you wanna fall on the floor laughing :D

rossaroni
06-26-2009, 06:56 PM
I fish with graphite fly rods, and am a big fan of how they perform.

The only difference is that you are trying to catch fish, but with a graphite pool cue, most people are trying to catch you:)

rossaroni
06-26-2009, 07:01 PM
I have never played with one, but if it feels good, who cares what it is made of. If I could run out with a styrofoam cue, I would play with it!(Ok, maybe not)

McChen
06-26-2009, 07:38 PM
i have several shafts with graphite in the core and a wood outer layer (mezz hybrid pro 2, cuetec thundebolt, cuetec r360). all are very nice shafts, and I think this is better than a cue made of all graphite. the wood outer core slides a lot better on your bridge and is easier to maintain than graphite. there can be a different sound, but depending on the design, usually it is very little and not a bad thing. it does stiffen up the shaft quite a bit, so you can have long tapers without getting whippy. they are also pretty consistent in terms of radial flex. i assume they are more warp resistant as well, but obviously i have not tried to warp my shaft on purpose to test his :)

Jule
06-26-2009, 07:47 PM
@sfleinen

The problem is that its mostly just some cheap ass wood covered with a layer of graphite. That kinda spoils your theories.

conetip
06-26-2009, 09:54 PM
i have several shafts with graphite in the core and a wood outer layer (mezz hybrid pro 2, cuetec thundebolt, cuetec r360). all are very nice shafts, and I think this is better than a cue made of all graphite. the wood outer core slides a lot better on your bridge and is easier to maintain than graphite. there can be a different sound, but depending on the design, usually it is very little and not a bad thing. it does stiffen up the shaft quite a bit, so you can have long tapers without getting whippy. they are also pretty consistent in terms of radial flex. i assume they are more warp resistant as well, but obviously i have not tried to warp my shaft on purpose to test his :)

My carbon shafts are smother than wood. In humid conditions, they will get sticky from the sweat and oils from your skin,then you wipe the shaft with a dry paper towel or napkin. All is smooth again.
Another feature of my shafts is the ability to change to a break tip for the break and then back to the play tip for the rest of the match.
Alot of work has gone into developing the shaft and it is still ongoing.
Neil

McChen
06-26-2009, 10:01 PM
interesting conetip....sounds like your graphite shafts are different than the ones currently on the market. good luck with it, i'm interested to see how it turns out!

Dead Crab
06-27-2009, 04:58 AM
McChen-

Have you measured where the pivot point is on any of your carbon-core shafts? In particular, if anyone knows where the pivot point is on a G-Core I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Dead Crab
06-27-2009, 05:01 AM
Conetip -

Are your shafts carbon fiber tube (i.e. hollow) ? If so, do you use a ferrule? Do you know the pivot point?

Also... what are those conical tip things in your avatar?

conetip
06-27-2009, 07:54 AM
Conetip -

Are your shafts carbon fiber tube (i.e. hollow) ? If so, do you use a ferrule? Do you know the pivot point?

Also... what are those conical tip things in your avatar?

The conical things in my avatar are the replaceable tip inserts that I have a patent on.There is a ferrule insert that these fit into.
The carbon shafts are hollow with my tip system. They do not need to be filled but I am working on making them heavier to suit standard cue handles
while maintaining the hit and feel that I have developed.
The shafts can also be used in a jump and a break cue , with different weight handles.The current shaft is 11 mm tip with 15 mm joint(for my cues) and weighs 1.6 oz, I am looking at making it with a .850 joint and the weight being in the 3 oz range but keeping the lightweight front end.
Neil

CocoboloCowboy
06-27-2009, 07:56 AM
Big 5 Sporting Goods sold off a bunch last year at like $15.00. They flew off the shelves, and ended in in the hand of my Sr. Player who did not know what they got, but it was a DEAL to them.

McChen
06-27-2009, 08:11 AM
McChen-

Have you measured where the pivot point is on any of your carbon-core shafts? In particular, if anyone knows where the pivot point is on a G-Core I'd be interested in hearing about it.

cuetec r360 - deflects the same as my OB-1. platinum billiard's tests had it at a 12.3" pivot, which in my casual testing seems right.

cuetec thunderbolt - deflects the same as my USS LS, which platinum has as a 10.7" pivot, which in my quick testing seems right. though platinum's data shows the thunderbolt to be a little higher deflection than the USS LS, mine seems to deflect about the same as the USS

mezz hybrid pro 2 - just got it, haven't played with it yet. it's supposed to be the lowest deflection of all the mezz shafts. i have a wd700 which i thought was pretty low already

keep in mind, that just because a shaft uses a carbon core, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will be low deflection.

mantis99
06-27-2009, 07:03 PM
I have a basic graphite $30 cue from walmart that I got when I first bought a cheapo table. To be honest, I can make the cue ball do the same things with that cue, that I can do with my better cues. The feel is a little different, but I don't think it is to the extent that some are saying on here. Mine is definately stiffer than my wood cues, and it will get sticky if not kept clean, but other than that, it plays fine. I currently use it as a break cue only, and feel it does a fairly good job at that. It also much more impervious to warping than wood cues.

I am a firm believer that it is really the stick user not the stick that makes the difference, and the lack of difference in performance from $30 cues to much more expensive cues is a major reason why. I have not used a low deflection shaft, and that may be a different story, but in my experience, those cheap walmart cues won't hurt my game any. Then again, maybe my game is just that bad to begin with :)

sfleinen
06-28-2009, 06:31 AM
@sfleinen

The problem is that its mostly just some cheap ass wood covered with a layer of graphite. That kinda spoils your theories.

Jule:

That may be the case for some cheap graphite cues, but certainly not for the one that I had for a couple years in my car's trunk. This cue certainly was solid graphite, not layered upon wood. This I knew for sure. Does that speak to all the graphite cues sold? No, it does not. So the net of all this is "buyer beware" -- examine the cue first before purchasing, and try to find out if it's all graphite, or a wood core with graphite layered upon it.

Thanks for pointing that out, Jule!
-Sean

TX Poolnut
06-28-2009, 09:22 AM
The only difference is that you are trying to catch fish, but with a graphite pool cue, most people are trying to catch you:)

:D:D:D:smile::smile::smile::D:D:D

mreightball
06-28-2009, 10:58 AM
Hello:
I don't know if anyone mentioned because I didn't read through every post but there a decent made graphite cues and what I will call Junk graphite cues. Some of the shafts are hallow and filled with foam on the junk ones.
Ron

Jule
06-30-2009, 07:23 AM
Now you've made me curious.
What brand was that solid graphite cue? I've never seen one.


btw: That "Halex Titanium Cue" someone mentioned before is made of a hollow tan plastic/fiber rod that has been sprayed grey (the whole thing). I know this for sure because I bought one at Walmart and sanded some of the coating off (being the curious guy I am :D)