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Bluewolf
04-13-2003, 08:23 AM
I am going to complain a bit. In no way am I complaining about the apa in general because I know that some teams try to play all of their players.

When I had not played for the previous two weeks, I complained to the captain that I did not like coming here week after week and not playing. There is also the fact that when I did play, he always played me last, when it was 11pm or later.


So after not playing me for two weeks,,he again played me last, this time against an sl4. We were playing at 1am. I was so tired, I played horrible on one of the games, then managed to get a little second wind in the last game for the win.Even with my handicap, it was a hard match, every game was on the wire, but I did beat her.Now two more weeks go past without playing.

When I asked my captain if he was going to not play me until the tournie so that he could play me as a two, he said he did not care if I became an sl3.

I would rather it if he had said yes he wasnt going to play me, then I could stay home and practice and just plan on playing in the sunday tourney instead.

I am seriously considering quitting the team

My apa 7 husband says that they are lucky to have a 2 who is almost a 3, I am relatively new, just two sessions, so do not have 20 matches yet, just 18.

I believe in keeping commitents but with the fact that I do not get to play much, even after talking to him and he always plays me last on the rare ocassions he has played me, is that justification for quitting. My husband could still play. He is a 7 and gets to play every week for obvious reasons.

Laura

Rickw
04-14-2003, 04:42 PM
Laura,

I don't play in the APA but I have played in leagues before. Sounds to me like you've already talked to your captain a couple of times. Why don't you give him the choice? Tell him again what your concerns are, and then tell him that if he is going to continue to plaly you only once every two weeks and late at night, you're going to have to quit the team. This way it gives him the option to decide and maybe you won't burn any bridges. Next year when you're an Sl-7, he might be begging you to come back. I have to wonder though, if you're rated a 2 and playing more like a 3, why wouldn't he want to put you up against the other 2's? Not everyone is cut out to be a leader!

Bluewolf
04-14-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Rickw
Laura,

I don't play in the APA but I have played in leagues before. Sounds to me like you've already talked to your captain a couple of times. Why don't you give him the choice? Tell him again what your concerns are, and then tell him that if he is going to continue to plaly you only once every two weeks and late at night, you're going to have to quit the team. This way it gives him the option to decide and maybe you won't burn any bridges. Next year when you're an Sl-7, he might be begging you to come back. I have to wonder though, if you're rated a 2 and playing more like a 3, why wouldn't he want to put you up against the other 2's? Not everyone is cut out to be a leader!

Thanks Rick for the vote of confidence. I think that he is not cut out to be a leader.

He has this new guy on our team who can shoot like a good three. Thing is, he folds in matches and gets beaten by twos, and now he is a two. Because the captain sees him in practice, he thinks he is better so plays him more. Then there is the three who plays like a sl4 when he is sober and very bad once he starts drinking. Those two, we feel are not relieable. But this captain,imo, is way over his head and cannot accurately gage the situation. Also we have these two sl4 crybabies who wont play unless you play them first or second.

In certain respects I feel for the captain but hey I just wanna play.
There is a league on another night that most b and less players shy away from because the players in it are such serious pool players. They are desparate for sl 2-3 players. Another reason to check this one out is because it would give my sl7 hubbie more competition. Right now he is one of three good sevens in our league. They dont get much better because of the small pool of good competition.

Laura

Koop
04-15-2003, 06:56 AM
I would definitely go where the competition is. As a lower sl you will certainly see more playing time and your game will elevate even faster. It seems no matter where you are there are always those cry babies who seem to get their way. Problem is, they never get any better and in the mean time bring your game down with them. You seem to be serious about getting better and from the sounds of it, would be better off going elsewhere. I never mind losing as long as I feel my game is improving. Just my two cents.

Dave

1-P
04-15-2003, 08:05 AM
Laura,

Did it ever occur to you that you may not be a league player? Ask yourself why you are in the league to begin with. Is it please your husband or someone else? Is your passion for pool or for leagues. They really are quite different.

If you really think the captain is an idiot, get out. Why would you want to continue to play for him? Pool is supposed to be recreation and stress relief, but this is obviously working quite the opposite under the current conditions.

To me, it appears that all of your posts here, and elsewhere, reflect a person that is far to concerned about ratings, league politics, etc. and not nearly enough on pool. But to some extent that is the nature of leagues. Leagues are team events--pool was never designed to be a team event because it always comes down a one-on-one match-up.

Perhaps it's time to think about scrapping leagues and focus on tournaments so you control when and where you play with virtually no politics involved. You will rise or fall based solely on your performance, and dictate when, where, and how often you will play.

If you elect to stay with the current team, here is an idea. Instead of simply writing your captain off as an idiot, try to work with him. Ask him, "What do I have to do to get ______? This tells him that you respect his position, and also tells him that you want to be a team player and will work to improve where necessary.

I am afraid that this post sounds judgmental or argumentative, but I offer these thoughts simply to help you expand your ideas and explore your own motives.

Good Luck,
1-P

Walt in VA
04-15-2003, 09:23 AM
Laura - You say you are always playing last - "11PM or later." APA rules specify that if the 4th match has not started by league time + 2 hours, (i.e., 9:30 for a 7:30 league,) the 4th match should start on a second table, and the 5th match starts on the original table as soon as the 3rd finishes. Is your captain aware of this?

We frequently go to 2 tables for the 3rd match if someone has an early day next day, for example, and usually finish up by 11PM, even with long matches. Almost all locations where we play have at least 2 tables, and there are penalties if the other team resists splitting the matches.

Part of the strategy of league play is in matching up; if you stay home and practice 'till the tourney, your captain has one less option in matching up players. On many teams, all the players hang around until the put-up for the 5th match; then those who want to can leave. This way the other team doesn't benefit from knowing in advance who will play the last match.

You say you have played 2 sessions and have 18 matches in. Even if these are long (18-week) sessions, you are playing an average of every other week. Most teams have a couple of heavy hitters like WW, S/L 6 or 7's, who play pretty regularly, and then fill in with lower S/L players. Captains usually try to even out the # of matches played among the lower S/L's; if you have a full 8-person team, you have 5 or 6 players rotating into 2 or 3 shooting spots each night, basically playing every other week.

Please excuse this long post; like 1-P, I'm not trying to come off as judgemental or argumentative, but just to point out some of the things team captains have to consider. League play can be a lot of fun, but if you aren't enjoying it, you can try another team (form your own?)or another league; just be aware that that may not be the answer, either.

In any event, best of luck and good wishes.

Walt in VA

Kerry
04-15-2003, 12:08 PM
Laura,
Let me tell you about my team (I am the Captain).
Me-SL7. Not to toot my own horn, but I don't lose much. I've played 7 times this season.

SL-6-He used to win a lot, but has had a couple of bad seasons. He won't be going up or down any time soon. Played 8 times.

SL-4-she was up to a 5, has great knowledge though sometimes can't execute it or use the right ideas at the right times. Rock solid 4, though could go back up to a 5. Played 8 times.

SL-3-She was up to a 4, but can't seem to stay there. Wins games in 2-3 innings as a 3, but loses as a 4. Right on the line. Played 6 times (she didn't come a couple of times and is most likely of everyone to want to sit out).

SL-3-She's a solid 3. Wasn't expecting that to change, but she is learning strategy and safties, and wins fairly often, dramatically improved her break (thank's Predator!!). She could go up to a 4 in the coming months. Played 7 times.

SL-3-She's a great shooter with a good stroke, but doesn't take her time. Pretty good under pressure, wins about 40% of the time. Not likely to move up or down. Played 7 times.

SL-4-He can shoot great, has great speed control, very limited positional capabilities, stubborn when it comes to playing safe. More of a "bar" player. Won't go up, probably not down either. Played 8 times.

Now, most weeks, I get the paperwork on Friday. If the other team has a 6 or a 7, I assume I am playing. If they have another 5 or above, I assume my 6 is playing. This then means that two of the 3's must play. I form general ideas of what I want, but I tell them the situation and ask them all how they feel. I have already worked out with everyone who likes to play first, last, etc. I try to make the best matches based on all that info--what I think the player is capable of, how they feel, if they're warmed up, settled in, in a good mood, etc. So while the ultimate decision is mine, I try to make it a team effort to give me all the info of where everone stands for the night. Some people don't feel like playing on a certain night. Sometimes I know that one 4 might be better for a particular opponent than the other. Maybe they have no high ranked players and I sit out. My team is usually in the top 4 in the division. No one feels like they get shafted. I think you better get clear with your captain. What is his motivation? If he feels like he only wants to play you if he has to (for the #'s), then let him say so. Find out why. Is it your win %? You know that you must have a win % less than 40 to remain a 2? Maybe you and he are not a good match, team wise.
And by the way, last night my team was done at 11:15. We start at 7:30, and rarely finish after 12. Does your team play REALLY slow? Do the other teams in your division finish so late?

I hope you get straightened out--don't let it discourage you from playing. If you are just not that good and can't win, I guess you should work on your game before becoming upset with your captain. However, if this is the case, he should be honest with you. If it isn't the case, then he needs to take you more seriously.

Kerry
Sorry for the long post

Bluewolf
04-15-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Walt in VA
Laura - You say you are always playing last - "11PM or later." APA rules specify that if the 4th match has not started by league time + 2 hours, (i.e., 9:30 for a 7:30 league,) the 4th match should start on a second table, and the 5th match starts on the original table as soon as the 3rd finishes. Is your captain aware of this?


You say you have played 2 sessions and have 18 matches in. Even if these are long (18-week) sessions, you are playing an average of every other week. Most teams have a couple of heavy hitters like WW, S/L 6 or 7's, who play pretty regularly, and then fill in with lower S/L players. Captains usually try to even out the # of matches played among the lower S/L's; if you have a full 8-person team, you have 5 or 6 players rotating into 2 or 3 shooting spots each night, basically playing every other week.

Please excuse this long post; like 1-P, I'm not trying to come off as judgemental or argumentative, but just to point out some of the things team captains have to consider. League play can be a lot of fun, but if you aren't enjoying it, you can try another team (form your own?)or another league; just be aware that that may not be the answer, either.

In any event, best of luck and good wishes.

Walt in VA

Most of the APA teams go to 11-12pm. All of the tables are full except for one or two. That is one thing I do not like. I got in APA due to my husband when I was a beginner.

When I complain he says it is the best league. When I mention the other leagues, he says APA is the best. Hey,I am openminded but have uncontrolled petit mal seizures so at this point cant drive. I feel that is temporary but for now is reality.

18 matches and two sessions. I was trying to keep it simple but I meant that this was my second full session. One time the team folded and once I moved to a non league town.

I played two matches 3 years ago, one win, one loss. I then left the area and just practiced occasionally.

3 sessions ago I played one match and lost. The ph apa was on 8ft. The ph closed and the league moved to another ph with 9fts. Many did not want to play on the bigger tables. My team folded.

That makes 3 matches.1/3

Last session I played 9 matches, including one playoff match. That brought the total to 12. That captain was good about playing me as well as others.

Dont remember all of them but won the following, two of which were winning the last match and the playoff match. Seems like last session my win loss was 4/9

wins-sl2,sl3,sl4,sl2
losses-sl3,sl3,sl2,sl6,sl4

Not sure of my total apa w/l but even considering how crappy I played at the beginning of last session, believe it is 8 or 9/18 with last 6/8 wins. I mean that I have won my last 6 out of 8, which feel is good.

This session he has played me 6 matches. That, you know is the minimum for playing in the playoffs.
In weeks

1 sl2 win
2 -
3 -
4 sl2 win
5 -
6 sl2 win sl3 loss (makeup and played at 12a)
7 -
8-
9 -
10 - makeup sl3 loss ( he became four next week,was new)
11-
12-
13 sl4 win
14-
15-

We have 3 more and last week the team was in second place.

My theory about complaining, then some action will be taken, either bail, talk and accept whatever.

As to those who aplogized for being negative:contructive criticism is okay:)

Laura

Walt in VA
04-15-2003, 03:20 PM
Laura - If I understand your last post, you're in the 15th week of an 18 week session and are in 2nd place. You've played 6 times and are 4-2 on the session.

My Tues. night team is also in 2nd place, 2 games back, in the 15th week also. My team has 1 player who has played 10 times, one who has played 11, 2 who have played 9 times, one who has played 8 times, 2 who have played 7, and one (me) who has played 5 times.

My Wed. team is in 1st place by 2 games (with the same # of wins as the Tues. team) and the matches played are almost identical.

As a captain, I agree with Kerry's post: you have to decide who will be better against a particular opponent, who's "hot" on the practice table and who's not, who feels like shooting/who's down, etc. Balancing playing time against the need to win matches is always a tough call.

But if your team is nearing the end of the session in 2nd place, somebody must be doing something right. I've always said I'd rather play infrequently on a 1st place team than every week on a last place team, and most of my players feel the same way.

Hope you can work something out communications-wise with your team captain; if it isn't fun anymore, maybe a change is in order.

Best of luck,

Walt in VA

Bluewolf
04-16-2003, 07:21 AM
I am trying to play on two leagues next session. I think that will fix the problem.

Laura