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View Full Version : Sandbaggin thief !!!


nabeel
01-04-2010, 01:46 PM
HIS NAME IS MATT VRAAGH OR SOMETHING WITH THOSE LETTERS FROM PETERBOROUGH !!! HE JUST ROBBED THE TOURNAMENT AT ON CUE BILLIARDS AND GOT OVER 800$ WITH THE CALCUTTA LAST SAT WITHOUT A CHALLENGE FROM ANYBODY !!! FIRST OF ALL GEORGE HAD NO PROOF THAT HE WAS A 3 HANDICAP IN CPA AND HE JUST TOOK HIS WORD FOR IT !!! BIG MISTAKE !!! I'LL BET THAT IF U CHECK cpasouthont.com U'LL PROBABLY FIND HIM AS A 5 HANDICAP AT LEAST !!! HE PLAYS OUT OF PETRINAS I HEARD AND SOMEBODY SHOULD ASK FRANK KAKOUROS WHAT HIS REAL HANDICAP IS !!! HE SHOULD KNOW !!! SO ALL U GUYS KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN FOR THIS GUY MATT AND DON'T BELIEVE A WORD HE SAYS !!! GEORGE, YA GOTTA DO YOUR HOMEWORK MAN !!! OTHERWISE THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN !!! :angry:

D_Lewis
01-04-2010, 02:32 PM
For that amount of cash, I would imagine some sort of homework should have been done.

nathandumoulin
01-04-2010, 03:13 PM
I know Matt personally. He's a pretty nice kid from what I've known. I'm fairly sure his last name is Wager.

I'm not sure of the handicapping system, so I'm not aware of what Matt's rating should be....but Matt isn't exactly a sharpshooter. In a recreational league, he'd rank somewhere in the top 15%-20% range. No idea what that translates to in CPA ratings.

In 9 ball, he'd be lucky to break and run one rack in a long race. 8 ball is much easier IMO, so maybe he'd run the odd rack. If he played better than this, then he must have been on his game that day. A 3 sounds pretty ridiculous though.

tarcisio
01-04-2010, 11:39 PM
I don't post on sites but I must on this one. I am a 7 in cpa and a 6 in tap. with that said I was playing some pretty good pool that day and when i played Matt I had waited about 2-2.5 hrs and my match with matt only lasted about 15 minutes. He too had been waiting that long. This is how it went. I broke dry,he shot a few shots and missed and then I ran out. I broke dry again and he ran the table. he broke dry and i ran the table. then I broke and ran all the way to the 8 ball where I had to bank it and missed it. He potted 4 balls and then purposely missed a ball. I tried a shot in the corner where i had to pot his ball in and the 8 bobble in the pocket and he ran the last 2 balls and then the 8.
Matt was not talking to anyone except his crew. didn't practise until the end of the night. he would just win his match and sit down until he was called up again. The only other lost I had was against Mel who crushed me 5-2.
Before I even played MATT there were already 2 people that complained about his handicap and i asked that if I had a ref watch my match with matt and if the ref deemed him not to be his handicap then he should loose the match and have his skill level adjusted or atleast have him go to the next round with the proper skill level and i was told that it was not possible to change his level. Matt played just as well as any other strong 6 in league play that I have ever played against. We all complain when we see a 3 that shoots like a 5, Just imagine a 3 that is really a 6.Alot of other players that played hard should have won this tournament. NOT MATT. All in all I would like to thank George for setting this tournament up, richard for having us at his pool hall and all the shooters that played and tried their best and made this tournament succesful. I'd like to thank everyone except for Matt. But then again why would he care.... he's the one that's laughing at us with about a $1000 in his pocket....

JD_Hogg
01-05-2010, 01:20 AM
Is Matt looking for a team? I could use a good 3.

Gatz
01-05-2010, 01:50 AM
I love his smurk in that picture...

I love how George didn't know his real handicap, but believed he was a 3 and let him in. If know one knows their handicap they should be rated fairly high, to stop things like this happening.

taxi man
01-05-2010, 08:02 AM
I love his smurk in that picture...

I love how George didn't know his real handicap, but believed he was a 3 and let him in. If know one knows their handicap they should be rated fairly high, to stop things like this happening.I agree if a guy comes in and offers himself at a 3 and no one has a clue about the guy,he must play at a higher handicap,and if he doesn't like it ,oh well!It's better to disappoint 1 player than to hurt the rest of the field.Granted I like George and think he a good guy,but I know he's smarter than that.Someone should of stepped in right away and not let it go on as long as it did.But the flipside to this story is,can the guy not have a good day without being tortured for it?If they do find out he plays at a 6 then the guys a bird who deserves a verbal lashing and should not be welcomed back to any events in the future!Take Care ( P.S George,I still like your haircut).:eek:

MarcusG19
01-05-2010, 09:29 AM
I love his smurk in that picture...

I wish I could wipe it off with the back hand of that cue he's got in his hand. Theres nothing wrong with getting into a tournament a maybe one handicap lower. But in a league like the CPA where u have to be registered and all that. I don't see a reason for it.

poolpro
01-05-2010, 09:56 AM
okay, I do not know anyone involved with this, but I have run and played many tournaments.

I think the fault is with the administration though. A guy walks in and says he is a 3 and nobody questions it? This is a registered system, how does that happen? No proof was asked for or given?

Just make a rule that it is only open to members with proof of handicap! If you don't have any proof and say you are a 3, then you can play- as a 6!!! Watch how fast a REAL 3 will come up with some proof! I am sure all it would have taken was a phone call or a login on a website to clear up some confusion. I can see why a busy tournamnet director did not have time to do it, and it is not his responsibility to do so. That is why you put the burden back on the player. Either they offer up the proof, OR they risk having to play at a much higher handicap. Their choice!



Jw

Galleyman
01-05-2010, 11:56 AM
I know from personal experience that Matt bounces back and forth from a 3 to a 4 in the CPA, more of a 4 though. George asked Matt what he was ranked in the CPA at the time, he responded correctly with his present handicap. It was not the skill level of Matt which was the problem, the problem was that the 6's and 7's were shooting like 4's and 5's(maybe they cant handle 9 footers, lol). I was watching Matt's games and he was getting 5 to 6 shots a game on average. Just because so called 6's and 7's were not shooting like they should, they get upset. Stop complaining and shoot better next time and you wont have this worry. Matt's handicap was the only one not in question up there, there were others. If one of those guys won the tournament they would be complaining about them as well, its an inperfect system. By the way, George you ran a great tournament and I hope you more success in the future.

dlabout
01-05-2010, 12:20 PM
My 2 cent,
I don't know Matt. I'm not familiar with this tournament. I AM familiar with the APA. After spending almost 15 years in the APA I can say that most of the fault here is with the system. The APA's ranking system moves slowly. Anyone who started in the APA knows that those first few weeks your rank is all over the place. Once a player is established the system uses the best 10 scores over 20 weeks. Depending on who is scoring matches it can further skew the problem.
In 1990 I played as a skill level 5 and bounced between a 5 and a 6. I decided to play in my first APA tournament and ended up winning. I too won my calcutta and the 1st prize money. I too was down to a skill level 5 when I entered the tournament and I too was branded a sandbagger. I learned after many years of the APA that it is the nature of the league. When a skill level 7 looses to a 4 then it MUST be sandbagging. I am now a 7 in the APA. I have played many matches against skill level 3 and 4 players that have ran a good deal. I still remind myself that this is a game. If I don't like the rules of the league or the handicap system then I should direct my discontent at the system and NOT at the player. Trashing someone who is coming through the ranks does nothing for the game that we all love. Talk to the league operator or the tournament director about the situation. If the skill level is correct then all you can do is decide if you want to continue to play under those circumstances.
-Doug

chokeacola
01-05-2010, 12:20 PM
U KIDDIN ME ? WHAT WAS UR END GALLYMAN ? HOW MUCH DID U PAID 2 SAY THAT ? :scratchhead:

Get_A_Grip
01-05-2010, 01:03 PM
The question that I have, is if this Matt guy is actually rated on this same scale in some other league and if he KNEW that they were rating him lower than he should have been.

I think that it may be hard to judge your number level if you don't play in a league that rates people like that.

My experience was that an APA 5 player invited me to play in a 8-ball tournament. When I got there, the guy wasn't there yet. They asked me my rating and I told them that I'm a little better than my friend that is a 5. The TD told me that he would start me as a 5 but that he would watch me play and raise me mid-tournament depending on how I play and how much I beat the other players by in my matches. So in mid-tournament, he raised be to a 6, but I ended-up winning the tournament anyway.

The next time that I played in that tournament, I played as a 6 the entire time and won again (by beating a 7-level player 4-3 in the finals). I had to go to 4 games and he had to go to 5 games. So they told me the next time that I play, that I would be a 7.

Just recently I played again as a 7. I beat a 5-level player 5-0 my first match -- then got a bye -- and played another 7-rated player and lost 2-5. Now granted, I played really bad in this last match -- so I concluded that I probably SHOULD be a 7.

Did I purposely under-rank myself to win = NO. I was willing to let them raise my rating if THEY thought that I was better in the middle on the tournament -- because I thought that was fair and I really didn't know what rating that I should be.

So I think that my example is another possible way to look at this type of thing....

D_Lewis
01-05-2010, 01:05 PM
I know from personal experience that Matt bounces back and forth from a 3 to a 4 in the CPA, more of a 4 though. George asked Matt what he was ranked in the CPA at the time, he responded correctly with his present handicap. It was not the skill level of Matt which was the problem, the problem was that the 6's and 7's were shooting like 4's and 5's(maybe they cant handle 9 footers, lol). I was watching Matt's games and he was getting 5 to 6 shots a game on average. Just because so called 6's and 7's were not shooting like they should, they get upset. Stop complaining and shoot better next time and you wont have this worry. Matt's handicap was the only one not in question up there, there were others. If one of those guys won the tournament they would be complaining about them as well, its an inperfect system. By the way, George you ran a great tournament and I hope you more success in the future.

I welcome Matt to come to my room and play me as a 4. I LOVE playing sandbaggers!

I'll be playing at my current CPA/TAP handicap as a 6.

5-3 for the cash! Tell him to bring that $800 with him.

Hope to see you both soon!

Cuetips
01-05-2010, 01:44 PM
U KIDDIN ME ? WHAT WAS UR END GALLYMAN ? HOW MUCH DID U PAID 2 SAY THAT ? :scratchhead:

Give me a break. Gallyman gives a little insight to how 6's and 7's were playing and you accuse him getting paid to make that comment to support why this guy won. Did you not read..... this guy was getting 6 to 7 times to a table, obviously the higher ranked guys were shooting poorly.

I just played a tourney on the weekend ( as a 7) and got knocked to the B side by a 4 handicap, and guess what, she must have got to the table at least 4 or 5 times cause I was missing shots like there was no tommorow. I can accept the fact that some days, it's just not meant to be. Happens all the time

By the way, with only 4 posts made, hope your not gonna be one of those guys that wants to bash everyones comments regardless whether they are good , bad, or indifferent. We don;t need comments like yours


Walter

D_Lewis
01-05-2010, 01:47 PM
Give me a break. Gallyman gives a little insight to how 6's and 7's were playing and you accuse him getting paid to make that comment to support why this guy won. Did you not read..... this guy was getting 6 to 7 times to a table, obviously the higher ranked guys were shooting poorly.

I just played a tourney on the weekend ( as a 7) and got knocked to the B side by a 4 handicap, and guess what, she must have got to the table at least 4 or 5 times cause I was missing shots like there was no tommorow. I can accept the fact that some days, it's just not meant to be. Happens all the time

By the way, with only 4 posts made, hope your not gonna be one of those guys that wants to bash everyones comments regardless whether they are good , bad, or indifferent. We don;t need comments like yours


Walter

9 ball is a different animal Walter, they were playing 8 ball.

Anita is a good player, I expect to see her move up to a 5.

I also played horribly in the London tournament and my handicap is going to be moved to minus 309, so if I can rack without poking my eye out, I win automatically.

tarcisio
01-05-2010, 02:10 PM
Hi there Galleyman.... I am sure you have taken the time to read my previous thread on how I shot horrible against Matt......lol. I described my match against matt exactly how it went. If I did not shoot like a 6 or 7, can you please let me know how I should have shot????? I am not what you call a super 7. I am a mid level 6 in tap that was shooting great. I am a bottom end 7 in cpa. I break and run here and there, i play save and all that. So please lend me your expertice on this matter. ( and if you say " well you should have just broke and ran every game" you clearly are not reading my posts).
I'll give you an example of this girl named elaine that was a 2 in the tournament. I personally know her and she is a 2. She had a great day . she won her first match against a 5 ( whish was not shooting to his level), lost her 2 nd match to a 6, then won her first match on the b side (against a 4) and then lost to a 7. No one complained about her level because she wasn't running table. she was playing smart. if the person left her a shot she would try to play two way shots. if she made it great if not she would try to leave it hard. she made alot of mistakes, got lucky a few times, she played great for her skill level and I was very proud of her. the guys that lost to her did not complain of her handicap. they complained that they could not beleive they lost to her and how lucky she was getting. see the difference GALLEYMAN. The tournament was not filled with cry babies. it ws filled with great players in all skill level.by the way elaine is a registered 2 in tap and a 3 in cpa. she has never broke and ran in her life. she wins games because the other person scratches on the 8 or because there are about 7-8 innings already in the game. But galleyman please let me know how else I should have played, as well as all the other 6's and 7's. I'm sure that you must be a 6 or 7 yourself. for you seem to have such knowledge on how we should be playing the game.

chokeacola
01-05-2010, 02:21 PM
how ? were u there ? i didn't think so ! so how would u know if he was gettin 5 to 6 shots @ the table or not ? how would u know if the 6's and 7's were playin poorly ? because of what some dip@#$t buddy of his said well he was there ? how do u know if the 6's and 7's didn't try their guts out and still there was absolutely NOTHING they could do about it because Matt played just as smart as them ? seems like he knows all the shots ! since u were not there, what the hell would u know about it anyhow ? MATT, I DON'T KNOW HOW U SLEEP AT NIGHT, BUT U OTTA BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF !!! AND NOW "(FINALLY)" THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT UR A TRUE SANDBAGGER !!! and thats all i got 2 say about that !!! ps: Dan, trust me ! 5 to 3 race ur in REAL TOUGH with that guy !!! this is for Cuetips by the way :cool:

D_Lewis
01-05-2010, 02:39 PM
how ? were u there ? i didn't think so ! so how would u know if he was gettin 5 to 6 shots @ the table or not ? how would u know if the 6's and 7's were playin poorly ? because of what some dip@#$t buddy of his said well he was there ? how do u know if the 6's and 7's didn't try their guts out and still there was absolutely NOTHING they could do about it because Matt played just as smart as them ? seems like he knows all the shots ! since u were not there, what the hell would u know about it anyhow ? MATT, I DON'T KNOW HOW U SLEEP AT NIGHT, BUT U OTTA BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF !!! AND NOW "(FINALLY)" THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT UR A TRUE SANDBAGGER !!! and thats all i got 2 say about that !!! ps: Dan, trust me ! 5 to 3 race ur in REAL TOUGH with that guy !!! this is for Cuetips by the way :cool:

Who are you?

Gatz
01-05-2010, 02:39 PM
MATT, I DON'T KNOW HOW U SLEEP AT NIGHT, BUT U OTTA BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF !!! AND NOW "(FINALLY)" THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT UR A TRUE SANDBAGGER !!!

This reminds me of someone........

D_Lewis
01-05-2010, 02:44 PM
This reminds me of someone........

Im going to do some detective work and find out who played in the tournament.

I only know one whiney baby, crying, sandbag calling POS from the area and that person was banned last week. The spelling and caps lock throws me off though.

I sent a text to G-Corn. Waiting on a reply.

Gatz
01-05-2010, 02:46 PM
Im going to do some detective work and find out who played in the tournament.

I only know one whiney baby, crying, sandbag calling POS from the area and that person was banned last week. The spelling and caps lock throws me off though.

I sent a text to G-Corn. Waiting on a reply.

It's definitely not Lee. There are a lot of whiney baby, crying, sandbag calling people around. Could take you awhile to figure it out.

D_Lewis
01-05-2010, 02:49 PM
It's definitely not Lee. There are a lot of whiney baby, crying, sandbag calling people around. Could take you awhile to figure it out.

Who does it remind you of?
Its someone who doesnt play league, went to the tournament and wasnt allowed to play and likes to complain about handicaps.

This person also joined Dec 28th, the same day a certain someone was also banned.

D_Lewis
01-05-2010, 03:08 PM
Updated list for this weekends event:

1) Gordon Duff
2) Frank Garisto
3) George Brocanier
4) Jack Reid
5) Fred Terry
6) George Cornelius
7) Nibz Manek
8) Tom Upward
9) Tyler Smith
10) Claudio Simoneschi
11) Chris Pegg
12) Chris Young
13) MyKull Gallacher
14) Tim Aylward
15) Jeff Batucan
16) Andrey Myhal
17) Brad Vale
18) Grace Nakamura
19) Mel McConnell
20) Irene Ulpindo
21) Matt Wagar
22) Manny Esteves
23) Aaron Bruce
24) Chris Timmins
25) Tarcisio Azevedo
26) Terry Hopkinson
27) Wayne Dwyer
28) Linda McKenzie
29) Anthony Apollinaro
30) Al Smart
31) Kevin Booker
32) Paul Regina
33) Carmelo Spiteri
34) Rick Garant
35) Jason George
36) Dallas Dyer
37) Steve Gagne
38) Brent Bedard
39) Brittany Bryant
40) Attilio Polsineli
41) Hossein Hosseinzadeh
42) Svetlana Kozak

There is the list of players that signed up. Im going to go out on a limb and say Aaron Bruce and Al Smart didnt show up. Id also assume that Brittany didnt show up either. Attillo played in the doubles tournament that the other TAP guys ran out in Oakville but I dont think he plays league.

Stumped!

tarcisio
01-05-2010, 03:13 PM
Brittany Bryant was there and it was great to watch her shoot. I know that she won her first match and I don't remember if she lost her next match but I do beleive that she lost to Mel McConnell (7) he was shooting great, and she also lost to George Cornelius (7) on the b side.

D_Lewis
01-05-2010, 03:15 PM
Brittany Bryant was there and it was great to watch her shoot. I know that she won her first match and I don't remember if she lost her next match but I do beleive that she lost to Mel McConnell (7) he was shooting great, and she also lost to George Cornelius (7) on the b side.

Hmmmm, I assumed I would have seen her name in the cash.

Mel shoots lights out 8 ball, very strong player.

Just going to throw this out there, what handicap did you play as? I know someone you know who is a little bit associated with sandbagging themself. Not saying you are, but a lot of people who they know, are also associated with it.

tarcisio
01-05-2010, 03:22 PM
I'm a 6 in Tap and 7 in cpa. Anyone that knows me. Knows me as Taz. this is how my day went. Had a bie the first round, won against andrey 4 (5-2), won against elaine 2 (6-0), lost to matt 3 (2-2), won against frank 5 (5-2), won against george 7 (4-4) and then lost to Mel 7 (5-2) I came in 5-6 place.

D_Lewis
01-05-2010, 03:27 PM
I'm a 6 in Tap and 7 in cpa. Anyone that knows me. Knows me as Taz. this is how my day went. Had a bie the first round, won against andrey 4 (5-2), won against elaine 2 (6-0), lost to matt 3 (2-2), won against frank 5 (5-2), won against george 7 (4-4) and then lost to Mel 7 (5-2) I came in 5-6 place.

If you're a 6, I will no longer associate you with those people when I think of your handicap.

Congrats on the good finish.

Cuetips
01-05-2010, 03:33 PM
how ? were u there ? i didn't think so ! so how would u know if he was gettin 5 to 6 shots @ the table or not ? how would u know if the 6's and 7's were playin poorly ? because of what some dip@#$t buddy of his said well he was there ? how do u know if the 6's and 7's didn't try their guts out and still there was absolutely NOTHING they could do about it because Matt played just as smart as them ? seems like he knows all the shots ! since u were not there, what the hell would u know about it anyhow ? MATT, I DON'T KNOW HOW U SLEEP AT NIGHT, BUT U OTTA BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF !!! AND NOW "(FINALLY)" THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT UR A TRUE SANDBAGGER !!! and thats all i got 2 say about that !!! ps: Dan, trust me ! 5 to 3 race ur in REAL TOUGH with that guy !!! this is for Cuetips by the way :cool:


Like I said, if all you know is how to slam people then I don;t think we will see you on this site for too long ( under this name anyways), and I don;t think too many people here will disagree with me on this prediction

The Beginner
01-05-2010, 03:41 PM
Updated list for this weekends event:


20) Irene Ulpindo

There is the list of players that signed up. Im going to go out on a limb and say Aaron Bruce and Al Smart didnt show up. Id also assume that Brittany didnt show up either. Attillo played in the doubles tournament that the other TAP guys ran out in Oakville but I dont think he plays league.

Stumped!

Dan, are you sure she's in to that list?..ill ask her if she signed up

chokeacola
01-05-2010, 04:02 PM
4 the record i didn't play in the tournament ! i wasn't even there that day ! i just seen him play b4 in peterborough ! and i live east of peterborough !

Danktrees
01-05-2010, 05:16 PM
since people dont seem to realize they're playing 8 ball so i will say this...

if it's true that he was getting 3-6 shots a game then u guys have absolutely nothing to complain about. he's racing to 3 and if u give him 3-6 shots a game then u shouldnt expect to win. heck he's racing to 3, if u give more than 2 shots a game u shouldnt expect to win.

obvious exception is if u guys get in a safety battle but that doesnt seem to be the case.

play better and u're good. not everyone is a sandbagger just because they won

B*Bryant
01-05-2010, 06:14 PM
I just want to say that Matt is Obviously not a 3, but owell!! shit it was only a 25$ tournament.
If i saw how well matt shoots before the tournament i would still play if he was ranked a 3. We were getting 36-1 on are money how can you say no.

1st 900ish
2nd 650ish
3rd 400ish
4th 200ish

i think....
matt won a 900$ tounament and will never get into another tournament lower then a 5.

it was a learning experience for everyone that was there.

ANYWAYS..it was a great tournament and i will definately play again.

Galleyman
01-05-2010, 06:53 PM
Hi there Galleyman.... I am sure you have taken the time to read my previous thread on how I shot horrible against Matt......lol. I described my match against matt exactly how it went. If I did not shoot like a 6 or 7, can you please let me know how I should have shot????? I am not what you call a super 7. I am a mid level 6 in tap that was shooting great. I am a bottom end 7 in cpa. I break and run here and there, i play save and all that. So please lend me your expertice on this matter. ( and if you say " well you should have just broke and ran every game" you clearly are not reading my posts).
I'll give you an example of this girl named elaine that was a 2 in the tournament. I personally know her and she is a 2. She had a great day . she won her first match against a 5 ( whish was not shooting to his level), lost her 2 nd match to a 6, then won her first match on the b side (against a 4) and then lost to a 7. No one complained about her level because she wasn't running table. she was playing smart. if the person left her a shot she would try to play two way shots. if she made it great if not she would try to leave it hard. she made alot of mistakes, got lucky a few times, she played great for her skill level and I was very proud of her. the guys that lost to her did not complain of her handicap. they complained that they could not beleive they lost to her and how lucky she was getting. see the difference GALLEYMAN. The tournament was not filled with cry babies. it ws filled with great players in all skill level.by the way elaine is a registered 2 in tap and a 3 in cpa. she has never broke and ran in her life. she wins games because the other person scratches on the 8 or because there are about 7-8 innings already in the game. But galleyman please let me know how else I should have played, as well as all the other 6's and 7's. I'm sure that you must be a 6 or 7 yourself. for you seem to have such knowledge on how we should be playing the game.

Do more run outs and less complaining, lol!

Galleyman
01-05-2010, 06:55 PM
how ? were u there ? i didn't think so ! so how would u know if he was gettin 5 to 6 shots @ the table or not ? how would u know if the 6's and 7's were playin poorly ? because of what some dip@#$t buddy of his said well he was there ? how do u know if the 6's and 7's didn't try their guts out and still there was absolutely NOTHING they could do about it because Matt played just as smart as them ? seems like he knows all the shots ! since u were not there, what the hell would u know about it anyhow ? MATT, I DON'T KNOW HOW U SLEEP AT NIGHT, BUT U OTTA BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF !!! AND NOW "(FINALLY)" THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT UR A TRUE SANDBAGGER !!! and thats all i got 2 say about that !!! ps: Dan, trust me ! 5 to 3 race ur in REAL TOUGH with that guy !!! this is for Cuetips by the way :cool:

I was there and watched Alfonso self destruct!!!!

Cornerman
01-05-2010, 07:01 PM
This thread just confirms that I'm in the Twighlight Zone.

If you say things like "he's a 3 that plays like a 6," you have to understand just how clueless you sound.

Fred <~~~ 7 that often plays like a 2

chokeacola
01-05-2010, 07:18 PM
WHO R U ? GALLEYMAN :nono:

Galleyman
01-05-2010, 07:21 PM
WHO R U ? GALLEYMAN :nono:

The one telling you how it is! lol! I was there bro, and the level of play was not that high. It doesnt surprise me a 3 won the tourney.

Danktrees
01-05-2010, 08:35 PM
The one telling you how it is! lol! I was there bro, and the level of play was not that high. It doesnt surprise me a 3 won the tourney.

that would be a checkmate

tarcisio
01-06-2010, 12:24 AM
Do more run outs and less complaining, lol!

Some people are just comedians, so predictable. but ok I'll take your advise and run more tables and do less complaining. I'll also try to snap in the 8 off the break every game and if that doesn't work then I will break and get all the solids in off the break and leave the 8 ball over the pocket so that I can just tap it in. lol. And if you were there what place did you end up in? Just curious.

tarcisio
01-06-2010, 12:27 AM
If you're a 6, I will no longer associate you with those people when I think of your handicap.

Congrats on the good finish.

Thanks. I'm going to try to enter more tournaments. I really like 8 ball but all around is just 9ball. Any one know of in house 8 ball tournies?? i don't have a ride so it would have to be in the gta area.

tarcisio
01-06-2010, 12:35 AM
since people dont seem to realize they're playing 8 ball so i will say this...

if it's true that he was getting 3-6 shots a game then u guys have absolutely nothing to complain about. he's racing to 3 and if u give him 3-6 shots a game then u shouldnt expect to win. heck he's racing to 3, if u give more than 2 shots a game u shouldnt expect to win.

obvious exception is if u guys get in a safety battle but that doesnt seem to be the case.

play better and u're good. not everyone is a sandbagger just because they won

Please read my first posting. I don't think you read it.

Danktrees
01-06-2010, 01:04 AM
Please read my first posting. I don't think you read it.

well first of all, i wasnt even addressing u which is why it doesnt refer to ur post. second of all, i was addressing the other posts where guys were saying he had 3-6 chances per rack. and like i said IF it's true that he had that many chances, there is nothing to complain about.

u said "I broke dry,he shot a few shots and missed and then I ran out. I broke dry again and he ran the table. he broke dry and i ran the table. then I broke and ran all the way to the 8 ball where I had to bank it and missed it. He potted 4 balls and then purposely missed a ball. I tried a shot in the corner where i had to pot his ball in and the 8 bobble in the pocket and he ran the last 2 balls and then the 8."

so basically u missed a bank on ur game ball cuz u screwed up position on it. then in ur next inning u rattled the 8 and left it over a hole when he had 2 balls left on the table. what is there to complain about? u had 2 shots at ur game ball. the first one u missed cuz u made it hard on urself, instead of punishing u and running an open table he let u back in and u rattled the 8 ball AFTER u helped him out by potting one of his balls and leaving the 8 over the pocket. if he doesnt win that game he should be a 1.

the only time in ur story where he did anything worth mentioning was when he ran out after u broke dry. but if its an open table i dont see whats so special about that. clearly a 3 can still pot balls, and in 8 ball if u can pot balls u can run out. in poolhalls i've seen guys that cant hold a cue steady run out a rack in 8 ball. not often, but i've seen it happen. but matt obviously knows how to hold a cue so whats so special about him running out an open 8 ball rack? if it was a rotation rack then i can understand ur argument but this is 8 ball.

the rest of ur post was nothing to respond to since it was just an anecdote about how u heard other players complaining. doesnt tell me anything about his actual game. so what else did i miss?

D_Lewis
01-06-2010, 01:29 AM
Dan, are you sure she's in to that list?..ill ask her if she signed up

I took that list from George via the facebook event page, I heard there were 38 players so some on that list didnt show up.

4 the record i didn't play in the tournament ! i wasn't even there that day ! i just seen him play b4 in peterborough ! and i live east of peterborough !

Who are you?

Do more run outs and less complaining, lol!

Who are you? I would not be surprised if this was actually Matt.

rightoncue1938
01-06-2010, 05:27 AM
I was at the tournament that matt was at. I find it interesting that some of the comments say the higher ranks should have shot better. It is very interesting how people will side with a sand bagger . If someone comes in as a three ; he only has to win two games. I been playing long enough to know
matt was not playing like a three. At one point there were at least a dozen
people watching his game and his game was not that of a three. Yes people can have good and bad games even in the high ranks. But for a three to beat
the number of players he did and the caliber there is something really wrong.
I do not know any three in cpa or tap that could do what he did or even come close. Yes a three can beat a high rank but not that many and the way it was done.(even most fours are not playing at the level he was playing. It is
a sad time for pool when things like this happen and it puts a bad taste in people's mouth about the tournament
People should have to show ID and prove their ranking. We can all see what word of mouth does. Well Matt only you know the truth. I think maybe the next time you come to toronto the players can boycott you and refuse to play you and see how far you get then

tarcisio
01-06-2010, 05:42 AM
well first of all, i wasnt even addressing u which is why it doesnt refer to ur post. second of all, i was addressing the other posts where guys were saying he had 3-6 chances per rack. and like i said IF it's true that he had that many chances, there is nothing to complain about.

u said "I broke dry,he shot a few shots and missed and then I ran out. I broke dry again and he ran the table. he broke dry and i ran the table. then I broke and ran all the way to the 8 ball where I had to bank it and missed it. He potted 4 balls and then purposely missed a ball. I tried a shot in the corner where i had to pot his ball in and the 8 bobble in the pocket and he ran the last 2 balls and then the 8."

so basically u missed a bank on ur game ball cuz u screwed up position on it. then in ur next inning u rattled the 8 and left it over a hole when he had 2 balls left on the table. what is there to complain about? u had 2 shots at ur game ball. the first one u missed cuz u made it hard on urself, instead of punishing u and running an open table he let u back in and u rattled the 8 ball AFTER u helped him out by potting one of his balls and leaving the 8 over the pocket. if he doesnt win that game he should be a 1.

the only time in ur story where he did anything worth mentioning was when he ran out after u broke dry. but if its an open table i dont see whats so special about that. clearly a 3 can still pot balls, and in 8 ball if u can pot balls u can run out. in poolhalls i've seen guys that cant hold a cue steady run out a rack in 8 ball. not often, but i've seen it happen. but matt obviously knows how to hold a cue so whats so special about him running out an open 8 ball rack? if it was a rotation rack then i can understand ur argument but this is 8 ball.

the rest of ur post was nothing to respond to since it was just an anecdote about how u heard other players complaining. doesnt tell me anything about his actual game. so what else did i miss?

I tried to break out the 8 ball that was in a cluster. what I was left with was a 2 banker. Anyways I played my the best that I could against all my opponents and i'm happy enough with that.

Jason Robichaud
01-06-2010, 06:09 AM
When you see this many complaining, I tend to believe someone may have been too low. If the high is a 7 then a 3 shouldn't be able to run more than a few balls. Sounds like this guy ran a few racks during the event.:confused:

I think the ball got dropped by the TD, can't blame the shooter! For $1000+, I'm a 2 and travelling up for the next event:cool:

I use to play a handicap event in Bangor that had a horrible TD. He would up you mid match. I started as a 6 and beat an 8 hills. I got bumped to a 7 next match. I beat a 9 cause he missed tons of balls, they moved me to an 8. I was 4-4 with another 8 and they came over and told me I'm going to 9 maybe 10. I was like ??? it is tied, what the hell? I guess the guy was a really strong 8 or some damn thing. They kept me at 8 cause I told them to give my money back... now, my next time down they put me in at a 9. I had a 5 run a 4 pack against me! They didn't move him!

Cardinal_Syn
01-06-2010, 09:28 AM
Straight from the CPA website

http://cpasouthont.com/about_us/team_roster.asp?teamno=40001
oops sorry I guesse you would have to be logged in but it does say that his Handicap is a 5. It also list him as a 6 in 9ball.

Galleyman
01-06-2010, 10:32 AM
Some people are just comedians, so predictable. but ok I'll take your advise and run more tables and do less complaining. I'll also try to snap in the 8 off the break every game and if that doesn't work then I will break and get all the solids in off the break and leave the 8 ball over the pocket so that I can just tap it in. lol. And if you were there what place did you end up in? Just curious.

We have some 8 Ball tournies coming up here in Peterborough, I can post them when they come up. In regards to giving you a hard time, I guess I took it to far, but everybody is really riding my friend Matt on this.

chokeacola
01-06-2010, 10:33 AM
OOOOOO MATT IT'S OOOON NOW BOY !!!! LOL U JUST GOT EXXXPOOOSED BOY !!!! U REALLY IS A 5 AND A 6 IN 9 BALL !!! CAN'T HIDE NO MO MUTHA@#$A !!! I REST MY CASE !!! HAAAAA LMFAO....:yikes:

Galleyman
01-06-2010, 10:36 AM
I was at the tournament that matt was at. I find it interesting that some of the comments say the higher ranks should have shot better. It is very interesting how people will side with a sand bagger . If someone comes in as a three ; he only has to win two games. I been playing long enough to know
matt was not playing like a three. At one point there were at least a dozen
people watching his game and his game was not that of a three. Yes people can have good and bad games even in the high ranks. But for a three to beat
the number of players he did and the caliber there is something really wrong.
I do not know any three in cpa or tap that could do what he did or even come close. Yes a three can beat a high rank but not that many and the way it was done.(even most fours are not playing at the level he was playing. It is
a sad time for pool when things like this happen and it puts a bad taste in people's mouth about the tournament
People should have to show ID and prove their ranking. We can all see what word of mouth does. Well Matt only you know the truth. I think maybe the next time you come to toronto the players can boycott you and refuse to play you and see how far you get then

I guess he is a 5, my bad. Still the 6's and 7's in my opinion were not playing well, Matt probably still would of won the tourney as a 5.

D_Lewis
01-06-2010, 12:16 PM
Straight from the CPA website

http://cpasouthont.com/about_us/team_roster.asp?teamno=40001
oops sorry I guesse you would have to be logged in but it does say that his Handicap is a 5. It also list him as a 6 in 9ball.

This guy is GOOD!

I guess he is a 5, my bad. Still the 6's and 7's in my opinion were not playing well, Matt probably still would of won the tourney as a 5.

If it was your friend, you probably already knew he was a 5.

You'll never know if he WOULD have won because he played as a 3.

rightoncue1938
01-06-2010, 12:46 PM
well it shows cheaters will get caught. All the info about him will now
be known by all cpa players and tap players. And he calls him self a pool player. Well with his picture and the real facts, people will never trust this guy. again. I personally would ban him from all tournaments for that stunt.

lie about ranking; get money; run. this will be great news for matt's cpa
team . They can have the attention of a liar and cheat on their team

Matt you will now feel the pressure of all pool members who have your number now.

Gatz
01-06-2010, 01:56 PM
If Matt really is a 5, which looks like it. He should be banned from all CPA events and maybe other handicap tournaments. That shit right there is pure Bull shit!! :mad:

If this douche ever entered a 404 and I was there, I would tell the TD to tell him to go **** himself.

tarcisio
01-06-2010, 02:13 PM
I guess he is a 5, my bad. Still the 6's and 7's in my opinion were not playing well, Matt probably still would of won the tourney as a 5.

You are probably right that Matt would fair well even as a 5, but not because the 6's and 7's were all shooting like crap but because Matt brings a good game. If Matt was a 6 and I lost to him 4-0 I would not even complain about it. I would have enjoyed playing against him and enjoyed the good pool. That's the kind of guy I am. I love watching and playing good pool.It's just too bad that he did not have any confidence in himself and his playing capability. Now he has been branded.

ba2can
01-06-2010, 02:18 PM
you Peterborough guys should be ashamed of yourself...

one of Matts peeps came up to me...
"oh Matt doesnt play like this on Thursday nights"... give me a break...


any knowledgeable pool player knows that Matt was not a 3.... he plays at the very min a 5... i watch a couple of his matches...

-he kicks at balls (pretty good)
-he position he cue ball
-he knows how to bank
-he know how to play safe
-he knows how to play 2 way shots (misses and leaves opponent bad)
-he recognizes patterns on how to run out by breaking up balls.

WTF... if that is a 3... then i am a 3 too.

CONGRATS you P.O.S. haha you pulled a fast one

i dont sweat it if you are 1 S/L below your true ability but if you are more than 2 Skill levels... you are a low life worm.


below link to matts facebook page...
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000069160997&ref=ts#/profile.php?id=610320081&ref=search&sid=879460367.4228327391..1

just remember... what comes around, goes around.

ba2can
01-06-2010, 02:41 PM
Matt Wagar is LIAR and so are his Peterborough friends....Michael Gallacher and Chris Timmins.... Matt is on Mike and Chris's team... knowing that Matt was an S/L 5 and watched him entered tournament as an S/L3... thats lying and cheating.

Happy new year ...

SpiderWebComm
01-06-2010, 04:10 PM
Matt Wagar is LIAR and so are his Peterborough friends....Michael Gallacher and Chris Timmins.... Matt is on Mike and Chris's team... knowing that Matt was an S/L 5 and watched him entered tournament as an S/L3... thats lying and cheating.

Happy new year ...

BTW.. watch your back.. dont accidentally fall down the stairs... or run over some nails on the road

So...you're threatening someone for winning some nit tournament as a 3???

Nearly everyone in the pool world has done this--- prob you included. I hope you don't push someone down a flight of stairs for winning a nitty event.

If you wanna prevent that stuff from happening....have everyone play each other with no handicap. Then, the BEST player wins the NITTY event.

Gatz
01-06-2010, 04:13 PM
I have never gone into a tournament and lied about my handicap to rob the cheese.

But I will say that no matter how much of a douche bag this guy is, I don't agree with posting up his Facebook etc...

johnnydub
01-06-2010, 04:22 PM
I agree get his facebook down, thats just below the belt. I dont know why its such a huge deal, I play out of peterborough and dont even know this guy, He's def not upper echelon of the peterborough players, sounds like it was more of the TD's fault.
Now if he was one of the better players and got in as a 3 thats a diff story.....

nathandumoulin
01-06-2010, 04:53 PM
lol, I love all this trash talk about Peterborough pool. It's my hometown, and even I agree that the pool scene there is about as melodramatic as it gets. It's the only place where the better players are more worried about their ego's than they are about enjoying the game.

Cameron Smith
01-06-2010, 06:33 PM
There are three possible ways to rectify the situation that I can think of. First, start everyone at a base handicap somewhere in the middle and adjust it, this seems reasonably fair. The problem is that if a AAA player comes from out of town to play and he gets started as B equivalent he gets labeled as a sandbagger.

Second, Start everyone at the highest handicap. Unfortunately a lot people arenít willing to give away their money just to get started in a tournament they might never play again. Can you imagine a C player spotting an A player?

The best option would be to have a someone qualified watch a new player knock the balls around for a bit and then give them an educated handicap. How many unknown players show up for tournaments needing to be handicapped? You can still sandbag but the honest players will be easily recognizable from the dishonest.

At the end of the day though, the problem in pool (mostly 8 ball and 9 ball) is so many people are capable of playing lights out depending on the day the equipment. So itís tough to handicap, and if they played really well a lot people assumed they were sandbagging.

I would think if your going to be dishonest at least be smart about it. If I was going to pretend to be a C or a D player I would keep my play at that level and only go slightly above it if I needed to.

On a related note, a lot of people glorify pool hustling and have partaken in playing on the lemon. How is this different?

nibz
01-06-2010, 10:28 PM
As irrelevant as it is now because it has become more a post about sandbagging than anything else, i would just like to clarify that my name is Nabeel Manek, i was registered in the weekend tournament as Nibz Manek as i am shown on the list.

I would like to clarify that i DID NOT play matt nor did i make the initial post about Matt. If an admin to the site would like to contact me i can send legal identification as to my identity and would you please remove the initial poster from the members database. And i would like to apologize to matt for what he said in my name.

Also whether you`re a 3 or a 7, idc to be honest, congrats on the tournament win!

Peace.

D_Lewis
01-07-2010, 04:46 AM
If Matt really is a 5, which looks like it. He should be banned from all CPA events and maybe other handicap tournaments. That shit right there is pure Bull shit!! :mad:

If this douche ever entered a 404 and I was there, I would tell the TD to tell him to go **** himself.

I have to change my offer then, Matt, if you read this. 5-4, 8 ball for the cash. Open invitation.

I <3 Sandbaggers from the CPA!

vladmin
01-07-2010, 07:18 AM
CPA/APA/TAP/BCA suck. Because of their handicap system. Because these handicaps are controlled by people who are part of teams and play every night - clearly a conflict of interest. Because people sandbagg and they get away with it

Galleyman
01-07-2010, 01:47 PM
I am going to say this once and once only. Our league operator went down to mexico and did not process our scoresheets for six weeks, on matts team some handicaps jumped up after scoresheets were inputted with the equalizer handicap. This explains the diffrence in handicaps. Do I agree with how certain handicaps are calculated, of course not! But because a certain player uses his handicap and wins a tournament, he gets harrassed for it. Like I said Matt is a strong 4, but at the time of submission he was officially a 3. Maybe a stronger structure needs to be developed for this not to occur again.

D_Lewis
01-07-2010, 02:01 PM
I am going to say this once and once only. Our league operator went down to mexico and did not process our scoresheets for six weeks, on matts team some handicaps jumped up after scoresheets were inputted with the equalizer handicap. This explains the diffrence in handicaps. Do I agree with how certain handicaps are calculated, of course not! But because a certain player uses his handicap and wins a tournament, he gets harrassed for it. Like I said Matt is a strong 4, but at the time of submission he was officially a 3. Maybe a stronger structure needs to be developed for this not to occur again.

There is a screen shot that shows Matt as a SL5, how can you continue to lie?

vladmin
01-07-2010, 02:03 PM
[QUOTE=Galleyman;2211573]I am going to say this once and once only. Our league operator went down to mexico and did not process our scoresheets for six weeks, QUOTE]

Let me guess, his name is John C ? :scratchhead:

Gatz
01-07-2010, 02:15 PM
I am going to say this once and once only. Our league operator went down to mexico and did not process our scoresheets for six weeks, on matts team some handicaps jumped up after scoresheets were inputted with the equalizer handicap. This explains the diffrence in handicaps. Do I agree with how certain handicaps are calculated, of course not! But because a certain player uses his handicap and wins a tournament, he gets harrassed for it. Like I said Matt is a strong 4, but at the time of submission he was officially a 3. Maybe a stronger structure needs to be developed for this not to occur again.

This really makes no sense at all, when it clearly states Matt is a SL5 on the CPA website. :confused:

LessThanMike
01-07-2010, 02:33 PM
There are three possible ways to rectify the situation that I can think of. First, start everyone at a base handicap somewhere in the middle and adjust it, this seems reasonably fair. The problem is that if a AAA player comes from out of town to play and he gets started as B equivalent he gets labeled as a sandbagger.

Second, Start everyone at the highest handicap. Unfortunately a lot people aren’t willing to give away their money just to get started in a tournament they might never play again. Can you imagine a C player spotting an A player?

The best option would be to have a someone qualified watch a new player knock the balls around for a bit and then give them an educated handicap. How many unknown players show up for tournaments needing to be handicapped? You can still sandbag but the honest players will be easily recognizable from the dishonest.

At the end of the day though, the problem in pool (mostly 8 ball and 9 ball) is so many people are capable of playing lights out depending on the day the equipment. So it’s tough to handicap, and if they played really well a lot people assumed they were sandbagging.

I would think if your going to be dishonest at least be smart about it. If I was going to pretend to be a C or a D player I would keep my play at that level and only go slightly above it if I needed to.

On a related note, a lot of people glorify pool hustling and have partaken in playing on the lemon. How is this different?



I do agree, sometimes people to play lights or over there head. I remember playing a few stops on the "K" tour, never won more than one match ina single tournament... then one day on the 30k in newmarket, I played really well and beat a few locals.. I heard so many people whinning to Willy about my handicap.. People never to notice when you do bad, but when you do have that one day everyone notices. As a tournament Director handicaps are damn hard anyways... if your off by a little, or someone has a good day.. everyone starts to whine, especially if they beat a higher handicap, dont matter how poor the higher handicap shot either, its almost always cos the other guy was underhandicapped!!!

chokeacola
01-07-2010, 02:51 PM
I do agree, sometimes people to play lights or over there head. I remember playing a few stops on the "K" tour, never won more than one match ina single tournament... then one day on the 30k in newmarket, I played really well and beat a few locals.. I heard so many people whinning to Willy about my handicap.. People never to notice when you do bad, but when you do have that one day everyone notices. As a tournament Director handicaps are damn hard anyways... if your off by a little, or someone has a good day.. everyone starts to whine, especially if they beat a higher handicap, dont matter how poor the higher handicap shot either, its almost always cos the other guy was underhandicapped!!!
listen u idiot ! apparently the difference between u and him is that he never played in any tournaments b4 ! and miraculosly he robbs a tournament as a 3 in his debut appearance when he 's actually a 5 ! it's already been proven ! so try explaining that 1 2 me will ya ! :cool:

Gatz
01-07-2010, 02:59 PM
listen u idiot ! apparently the difference between u and him is that he never played in any tournaments b4 ! and miraculosly he robbs a tournament as a 3 in his debut appearance when he 's actually a 5 ! it's already been proven ! so try explaining that 1 2 me will ya ! :cool:

Think you need to chill out a bit there Choke.

Galleyman
01-07-2010, 03:40 PM
This really makes no sense at all, when it clearly states Matt is a SL5 on the CPA website. :confused:

Did you even read my prior post of 6 scoresheets not posted untill the weekend of tourney.

Galleyman
01-07-2010, 03:44 PM
[QUOTE=Galleyman;2211573]I am going to say this once and once only. Our league operator went down to mexico and did not process our scoresheets for six weeks, QUOTE]

Let me guess, his name is John C ? :scratchhead:

doesnt matter who it is, he informed us ahead of time he was heading on vacation and the sheets would be processed when he got back, anyway he was a 3 before he left, and a 5 after 6 scoresheets. ppl do fluctuate in handicap you know.

Gatz
01-07-2010, 04:17 PM
Like I said Matt is a strong 4.

I guess he is a 5, my bad. Still the 6's and 7's in my opinion were not playing well, Matt probably still would of won the tourney as a 5.

So you say in your opinion hes a strong 4, but yet you say he would still win as a 5!? God damn son, you're complicated. I doubt Matt would of won as a 5. There are some pretty good 7's in there. 2 games is a huge difference.

Did you even read my prior post of 6 scoresheets not posted untill the weekend of tourney.

I guess I didn't. So why is it that hes a strong 4 according to you, when hes a 5 listed on the CPA site? Still confused here...

Jason Robichaud
01-07-2010, 04:21 PM
I would be happy improving 2 spots in 6 weeks, thats progress right there.

Gatz
01-07-2010, 04:27 PM
I would be happy improving 2 spots in 6 weeks, thats progress right there.

Yeah no shit! lol. That kid is learning super quick. Wish my game would jump up 2 games that quick.

The Beginner
01-07-2010, 05:08 PM
The best Thread ever!!!!! :grin-square:

CocoboloCowboy
01-07-2010, 05:36 PM
Sound like what happens in Pool Worldwide, when a HANDICAP System is ABUSED....

LessThanMike
01-07-2010, 05:54 PM
listen u idiot ! apparently the difference between u and him is that he never played in any tournaments b4 ! and miraculosly he robbs a tournament as a 3 in his debut appearance when he 's actually a 5 ! it's already been proven ! so try explaining that 1 2 me will ya ! :cool:

I was basically saying as a TD when its someone you dont know its hard to get a handicap for him... you dont wanna make them so high that it discourages them from coming back either.. it may have been proven after the fact, but beforehand the TD had no idea and took his word for it... apprently from what I read, the CPA handicap for him was updated AFTER the tournament, so in fact he may still have been a 3 going in....

LessThanMike
01-07-2010, 05:56 PM
Yeah no shit! lol. That kid is learning super quick. Wish my game would jump up 2 games that quick.

Without knowing too much about how CPA handicap works, if you started off and had a few bad weeks say against stronger teams or something would that not drop you handicap a lot, and then if you followed up with some good weeks against lower players, would that not spike your average back up? like i said tho, i know nothing of CPA.....

Wagz101
01-07-2010, 06:01 PM
Just so you all know all i play is 6 and 7 up here and i get my @#$ kicked our convenor of our cpa league went away on vacation and there where like 6 scoresheets that where not inputed onto the website so i don't know how i could be sandbagging if that is the case if you do not beleive me talk to john yourself this is bull@$%^ how i win a tourney and get labelled as a sandbagger that is the first tourney i have ever went into and for the record there where a few other players playing below there skill level and i wasn't even at the time i entered the tourney i was a 3 so is that my fault like really like what kind of childish games are these posting somebody facebook like grow up what are we 13 if anybody has any questions about my handycap talk to john c the convenor of our league

chokeacola
01-07-2010, 06:40 PM
Just so you all know all i play is 6 and 7 up here and i get my @#$ kicked our convenor of our cpa league went away on vacation and there where like 6 scoresheets that where not inputed onto the website so i don't know how i could be sandbagging if that is the case if you do not beleive me talk to john yourself this is bull@$%^ how i win a tourney and get labelled as a sandbagger that is the first tourney i have ever went into and for the record there where a few other players playing below there skill level and i wasn't even at the time i entered the tourney i was a 3 so is that my fault like really like what kind of childish games are these posting somebody facebook like grow up what are we 13 if anybody has any questions about my handycap talk to john c the convenor of our league
ya, let's just dump it all john croft y don't we ! what is he ur father ? nooo it's not ur fault right ? butter wouldn't melt in ur mouth right ? like u had nuttin 2 do wit it right ? it don't matter what u say no mo man ! we know what u r ! :cool:

Gatz
01-07-2010, 06:54 PM
Without knowing too much about how CPA handicap works, if you started off and had a few bad weeks say against stronger teams or something would that not drop you handicap a lot, and then if you followed up with some good weeks against lower players, would that not spike your average back up? like i said tho, i know nothing of CPA.....

I don't know either. I can't stand league's...

LessThanMike
01-07-2010, 07:16 PM
I don't know either. I can't stand league's...

I dont mind the cash leagues.. well at least the one around here... Volunteer Run, all cash paid back..cant argue with that at all.. Downside to go out and waste 3 hours or so, to play 5 single games of pool is a little rought, long waits in between games dont help much either... We also had a singles league that was pretty good too that I ran.. 8 games per night against the same opponent, in an out it generally around an hour

The Beginner
01-07-2010, 09:01 PM
Just so you all know all i play is 6 and 7 up here and i get my @#$ kicked our convenor of our cpa league went away on vacation and there where like 6 scoresheets that where not inputed onto the website so i don't know how i could be sandbagging if that is the case if you do not beleive me talk to john yourself this is bull@$%^ how i win a tourney and get labelled as a sandbagger that is the first tourney i have ever went into and for the record there where a few other players playing below there skill level and i wasn't even at the time i entered the tourney i was a 3 so is that my fault like really like what kind of childish games are these posting somebody facebook like grow up what are we 13 if anybody has any questions about my handycap talk to john c the convenor of our league


Did you sleep well in the last couple of days? :grin-square:

D_Lewis
01-07-2010, 09:20 PM
Just so you all know all i play is 6 and 7 up here and i get my @#$ kicked our convenor of our cpa league went away on vacation and there where like 6 scoresheets that where not inputed onto the website so i don't know how i could be sandbagging if that is the case if you do not beleive me talk to john yourself this is bull@$%^ how i win a tourney and get labelled as a sandbagger that is the first tourney i have ever went into and for the record there where a few other players playing below there skill level and i wasn't even at the time i entered the tourney i was a 3 so is that my fault like really like what kind of childish games are these posting somebody facebook like grow up what are we 13 if anybody has any questions about my handycap talk to john c the convenor of our league

Unless you are a new player this session (which we would be able to tell by your CPA number) there is no way anyone goes from 3-5 in 6 weeks. You also have to assume that you wouldnt play each week of the 6 weeks in 8 ball.

Again, my offer still stands, race to our CPA handicap any time you'd like. Hop in the car and head west. Lot more than $800 to be won. Oh, you'll need to bring an updated info sheet with you, just incase you go up 2 more rankings and have to spot me a game.

I <3 CPA Sandbaggers!

Cardinal_Syn
01-07-2010, 09:58 PM
Why is there a need to bring the league operator in this?:confused: He has nothing to do with this really..clearly the person at fault I would think is the TD himself. He was the person that gave the go ahead so I Don't know why no one is question him?

Cardinal_Syn
01-07-2010, 10:00 PM
Did you sleep well in the last couple of days? :grin-square:

I haven't....this thread has got me hooked and more drama than a soap opera lol:outtahere:

nibz
01-07-2010, 10:11 PM
I haven't....this thread has got me hooked and more drama than a soap opera lol:outtahere:

lol so true, to both your posts actually, dont blame John, he`s done nothing wrong and is tryin to get to the bottom of this


[edit] actually i change one thing, don`t blame the TD... he`s actually been a victim in this... he trusted people, and they took advantage of him.

tarcisio
01-08-2010, 01:06 AM
Hey Galleyman... If I'm correct, you played as a 5 in this tournament and yet you are on matt's cpa team as a 7.... did you also jump 2 spots in 6 weeks? Also how is your kawartha pool league coming along guys? It most be great being 9's there. Oh yeah the highest handicap is a 10....right?! Wait..... it must be a typing mistake right... Maybe I got the names wrong??lol no no I got it.... The league operators went to Trinindad and tobago for the carnival, but then realized that they went on the wrong month so they decided to stay there for the whole month of november, then they swam towards venezuela where they camped out with the venezuelan guerillas. After being shot at from the military they decided to hop in a truck heading towards columbia where they had tea and biscuits with the Medellin Cartel. After Receiving some partying gifts from the cartel they decided to bike to Ecuador where they strapped Sea turtles to their shoes and headed up north to the states. reaching the states in mid december they were greeted by the coast guard where they were detained for having crystalline tropane alkaloid. After a few lashings in guatanamo they were flewn first class to canada just to update the standings for the week of Jan 4th.....is that about right??? Or did I miss leave something out...hahahahaha. What a joke.lol.

JD_Hogg
01-08-2010, 01:28 AM
Working night shifts suck, but threads like this make them suck just that little bit less. :)

chokeacola
01-08-2010, 01:56 AM
Hey Galleyman... If I'm correct, you played as a 5 in this tournament and yet you are on matt's cpa team as a 7.... did you also jump 2 spots in 6 weeks? Also how is your kawartha pool league coming along guys? It most be great being 9's there. Oh yeah the highest handicap is a 10....right?! Wait..... it must be a typing mistake right... Maybe I got the names wrong??lol no no I got it.... The league operators went to Trinindad and tobago for the carnival, but then realized that they went on the wrong month so they decided to stay there for the whole month of november, then they swam towards venezuela where they camped out with the venezuelan guerillas. After being shot at from the military they decided to hop in a truck heading towards columbia where they had tea and biscuits with the Medellin Cartel. After Receiving some partying gifts from the cartel they decided to bike to Ecuador where they strapped Sea turtles to their shoes and headed up north to the states. reaching the states in mid december they were greeted by the coast guard where they were detained for having crystalline tropane alkaloid. After a few lashings in guatanamo they were flewn first class to canada just to update the standings for the week of Jan 4th.....is that about right??? Or did I miss leave something out...hahahahaha. What a joke.lol.

oooohhh wait, IT GETS BETTER !!!! MATT WAGAR IS NOT ONLY A CAPTAIN, BUT AN ACTUAL 8 IN THIS KAWARTHA POOL LEAGUE !!! LMFAO....... NICE........I REALLY TRUST YA NOW ? LOL :rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:

Galleyman
01-08-2010, 06:23 AM
Hey Galleyman... If I'm correct, you played as a 5 in this tournament and yet you are on matt's cpa team as a 7.... did you also jump 2 spots in 6 weeks? Also how is your kawartha pool league coming along guys? It most be great being 9's there. Oh yeah the highest handicap is a 10....right?! Wait..... it must be a typing mistake right... Maybe I got the names wrong??lol no no I got it.... The league operators went to Trinindad and tobago for the carnival, but then realized that they went on the wrong month so they decided to stay there for the whole month of november, then they swam towards venezuela where they camped out with the venezuelan guerillas. After being shot at from the military they decided to hop in a truck heading towards columbia where they had tea and biscuits with the Medellin Cartel. After Receiving some partying gifts from the cartel they decided to bike to Ecuador where they strapped Sea turtles to their shoes and headed up north to the states. reaching the states in mid december they were greeted by the coast guard where they were detained for having crystalline tropane alkaloid. After a few lashings in guatanamo they were flewn first class to canada just to update the standings for the week of Jan 4th.....is that about right??? Or did I miss leave something out...hahahahaha. What a joke.lol.

Hey Taz, Kawartha Pool league is a bush league, alot of weak players. Our CPA is more condensed with stronger players. No, I was a six that went up to a seven last wednesday, but since Jack reid played one lower I thought I would too, plus a few others. By the way Taz, if you ever want to play for anything give me a post, untill then shut your mouth and grow up!

vladmin
01-08-2010, 06:26 AM
[QUOTE=vladmin;2211614]

doesnt matter who it is, he informed us ahead of time he was heading on vacation and the sheets would be processed when he got back, anyway he was a 3 before he left, and a 5 after 6 scoresheets. ppl do fluctuate in handicap you know.

It actually does matter a lot who that person is. You can't say that that's how you run a business. You go away for 6 weeks and leave everything in the hands of ... faith ?

poolplayer2093
01-08-2010, 06:29 AM
good for him. it's good to hear someone's making money these days

vladmin
01-08-2010, 06:38 AM
Why is there a need to bring the league operator in this?:confused: He has nothing to do with this really..clearly the person at fault I would think is the TD himself. He was the person that gave the go ahead so I Don't know why no one is question him?

Well, the league operator should be the one responsible for making sure that people dont jump 2 levels in 6 weeks. As per the CPA manual, whoever does that could be expelled from the league for sandbagging. Or something along the lines...

At the same time, if the league operator goes on vacation (which he is most definitely entitled to) he should get his lackeys to take care of how the league is running. But, judging by the people who are below him in the hierarchy, there is no hope for that ...

vladmin
01-08-2010, 06:43 AM
Hey Taz, Kawartha Pool league is a bush league, alot of weak players. Our CPA is more condensed with stronger players. No, I was a six that went up to a seven last wednesday, but since Jack reid played one lower I thought I would too, plus a few others. By the way Taz, if you ever want to play for anything give me a post, untill then shut your mouth and grow up!

LOL, that just speaks to how honest you guys are.

tarcisio
01-08-2010, 06:46 AM
Hey Taz, Kawartha Pool league is a bush league, alot of weak players. Our CPA is more condensed with stronger players. No, I was a six that went up to a seven last wednesday, but since Jack reid played one lower I thought I would too, plus a few others. By the way Taz, if you ever want to play for anything give me a post, untill then shut your mouth and grow up!

I'll play you a race to 10 for a friendly $50 in 8 ball. Tap rules. at On cue next thursday at 8 pm. take it or leave.

tarcisio
01-08-2010, 07:09 AM
Hey Taz, Kawartha Pool league is a bush league, alot of weak players. Our CPA is more condensed with stronger players. No, I was a six that went up to a seven last wednesday, but since Jack reid played one lower I thought I would too, plus a few others. By the way Taz, if you ever want to play for anything give me a post, untill then shut your mouth and grow up!

On another note I don't see why you got to bring Jack into this, He's got nothing to do with this posting and He does play in tap. That is his skill level in tap. You on the other hand decided to tell people that you were a 5 when already you are atleast a 6. Am I missing something hear????
You tell me to shut up and grow up but yet your the one coming up with all these stories. Oh and yeah, you told me that I should break and run more often...on one of your posts. Maybe I should follow your lead and every tourny I join I'll tell them that I'm a 5.lol. Man your FUNNY!!! oh and by the way I'm sur that there are alot of other players that would love to play you. So If your game is so strong you should invite all the other shooters in on some of your hot action.... and hey you can bring Matt to be your backer, I heard he's got some extra $$$ in his back pocket.

p.s. Don't worry I'm not going to ask for a spot. Although you might be a better player then me, I will still play you heads up.

vladmin
01-08-2010, 07:22 AM
I'll play as well. I used to be a 6 in 8 ball and a 7 in 9 ball. But I feel like a weak 3 now. So let's set-it up. I believe 6-2 would be the race. $50s would do ? LOL

I have a guy that I will back to play you even. 8/9 ball, 14.1, Snooker, barbox, 9ft, you name the place and game.

But it's not gonna be for $50s ;)

Shawn Armstrong
01-08-2010, 07:34 AM
Hey Taz, Kawartha Pool league is a bush league, alot of weak players. Our CPA is more condensed with stronger players. No, I was a six that went up to a seven last wednesday, but since Jack reid played one lower I thought I would too, plus a few others. By the way Taz, if you ever want to play for anything give me a post, untill then shut your mouth and grow up!

Is this an open invite to play for cash, or just for Taz? Just wanted to know if you actually think you're good, or just better than Taz. If you play some sets with Dan, let me know - he has my number.

Cardinal_Syn
01-08-2010, 08:47 AM
Well, the league operator should be the one responsible for making sure that people dont jump 2 levels in 6 weeks. As per the CPA manual, whoever does that could be expelled from the league for sandbagging. Or something along the lines...

At the same time, if the league operator goes on vacation (which he is most definitely entitled to) he should get his lackeys to take care of how the league is running. But, judging by the people who are below him in the hierarchy, there is no hope for that ...

Well the league operator should have no concerns about some other leagues tournament. TAP leagues responsible for their own handicap no one else. I don't know on what really happened and why he got bumped 2 handicaps in 6 weeks (unless you're a new player) :confused: but my stats were updated. Maybe there was no one in Peterborough to do the updates I don't know but I'll give him that benefit of the doubt.

vladmin
01-08-2010, 11:26 AM
Well the league operator should have no concerns about some other leagues tournament. TAP leagues responsible for their own handicap no one else. I don't know on what really happened and why he got bumped 2 handicaps in 6 weeks (unless you're a new player) :confused: but my stats were updated. Maybe there was no one in Peterborough to do the updates I don't know but I'll give him that benefit of the doubt.

I wasnt reffering to Peterborough or Scarborough or TAP division. I am just reffering in general to the way some league operators allow things like this to happen.

You guys won a trip in the Scarborough divison so I understand your appreciation towards what the league operator has done there. However, you know as well the problems that are generating because of the way the "equalizer" works.

Galleyman
01-08-2010, 11:59 AM
On another note I don't see why you got to bring Jack into this, He's got nothing to do with this posting and He does play in tap. That is his skill level in tap. You on the other hand decided to tell people that you were a 5 when already you are atleast a 6. Am I missing something hear????
You tell me to shut up and grow up but yet your the one coming up with all these stories. Oh and yeah, you told me that I should break and run more often...on one of your posts. Maybe I should follow your lead and every tourny I join I'll tell them that I'm a 5.lol. Man your FUNNY!!! oh and by the way I'm sur that there are alot of other players that would love to play you. So If your game is so strong you should invite all the other shooters in on some of your hot action.... and hey you can bring Matt to be your backer, I heard he's got some extra $$$ in his back pocket.

p.s. Don't worry I'm not going to ask for a spot. Although you might be a better player then me, I will still play you heads up.

In your eyes, you guys got played. The cash went this way this time, it might go your way next. It gets washed around anyway. If your sour about it, tell your TD to investigate it a little further next time. I was the one telling him to call our league operator, he refused. We were not hiding anything by telling him that. Six weeks before tourney, this was our handicaps, why would I tell him to call League Operator if I did not honestly think it would rectify the situation in our favour. I think you should be aiming some frustration in another direction.

By the way I will accept cash games no problem. Let me know Taz! "A friendly game for 50.00 sounds good". I hope you are not angry with me I didnt even win the tournament, I was just following the rules of your TD! I am not here to make enemies!!! Good luck in your future play.

Cardinal_Syn
01-08-2010, 12:18 PM
I wasnt reffering to Peterborough or Scarborough or TAP division. I am just reffering in general to the way some league operators allow things like this to happen.

You guys won a trip in the Scarborough divison so I understand your appreciation towards what the league operator has done there. However, you know as well the problems that are generating because of the way the "equalizer" works.

Vlad, I respect you as a player and I fully understand why you're frustrated in the system which is probably the main reason why you quit. I'm not quite sure as to what you're trying to imply when you say that I appreciated what John has done for us winning a trip. As far as I'm concerned we worked hard for that trip and it was a team effort. I'm a fair guy, I call it the way I see it. I'm not trying to defend John just cause you think he did us a favour, just trying to be fair. I wouldn't have posted the stats if I was trying to cover someones ass, but like I said before he had nothing to do with the situation. Although it's subtle, it's obvious that you have issues with John. Whatever it is, it's not my business.

I've never heard of the term sandbagging until I joined a league 2-3 years ago. Before I used to just play tournaments. To be honest with you all the systems has their flaw and all leagues has sandbaggers. One would just have to choose between the lesser of two evils so to speak.

vladmin
01-08-2010, 12:43 PM
Vlad, I respect you as a player and I fully understand why you're frustrated in the system which is probably the main reason why you quit. I'm not quite sure as to what you're trying to imply when you say that I appreciated what John has done for us winning a trip. As far as I'm concerned we worked hard for that trip and it was a team effort. I'm a fair guy, I call it the way I see it. I'm not trying to defend John just cause you think he did us a favour, just trying to be fair. I wouldn't have posted the stats if I was trying to cover someones ass, but like I said before he had nothing to do with the situation. Although it's subtle, it's obvious that you have issues with John. Whatever it is, it's not my business.

I've never heard of the term sandbagging until I joined a league 2-3 years ago. Before I used to just play tournaments. To be honest with you all the systems has their flaw and all leagues has sandbaggers. One would just have to choose between the lesser of two evils so to speak.

Julius, first of all I apologize if I made it look like you guys didnt deserve to win that trip. You guys played your heart out, won the whole thing, hats off.
I'm not going to comment on the John part. What happened in the past is in the past and will be left there. That's why I quit CPA and I play tournaments. (later edit) John made it possible for you by bringing the league to Scarborough and providing the funds for the trip that you guys won. Thats all.

On a different note though, it is sad to see how people take advantage of the system and how whoever is in charges of running these leagues is not doing enough to prevent these things from happening.

It's about time, money, effort and all the other things that you invest in these leagues.

The Beginner
01-08-2010, 01:37 PM
Julius, first of all I apologize if I made it look like you guys didnt deserve to win that trip. You guys played your heart out, won the whole thing, hats off.
I'm not going to comment on the John part. What happened in the past is in the past and will be left there. That's why I quit CPA and I play tournaments. (later edit) John made it possible for you by bringing the league to Scarborough and providing the funds for the trip that you guys won. Thats all.

On a different note though, it is sad to see how people take advantage of the system and how whoever is in charges of running these leagues is not doing enough to prevent these things from happening.

It's about time, money, effort and all the other things that you invest in these leagues.


Julius team were sandbagging that's why they won the tournament and went to Vegas hahahahha...Julius should be an 8 not a 5 or 6...:grin-square: I'm a weak 4 in CPA..but i will play Julius even for 8 ball or 9 ball match....lol

ba2can
01-08-2010, 02:27 PM
i just tell it like it is...

you played as a s/l 3 knowing you are way better than a s/l3 (for TAP or CPA)
really its not all your fault
the sheet said your a 3
way to take advantage of the situation... very honorable

it doesnt matter how anybody else shoots,,, its how you shoot... and being s/l 3 was grossly under-handicap... i saw with my own eyes it wasnt even believable that you were an S/L3... anyone that is knowledgeble in pool knows that (britney, taz, alfonso, mel) ...

c'est la vie

the past is the past... hopefully everyone has learn from this debacle

Hey, someone should post how to prevent sandbanging form tournaments.

D_Lewis
01-08-2010, 02:52 PM
Hey Taz, Kawartha Pool league is a bush league, alot of weak players. Our CPA is more condensed with stronger players. No, I was a six that went up to a seven last wednesday, but since Jack reid played one lower I thought I would too, plus a few others. By the way Taz, if you ever want to play for anything give me a post, untill then shut your mouth and grow up!

Is this an open invite? Im a 6, gotta spot me. I'll bring a CPA/TAP sheet to show it. Im in for un-friendly $50s and up. (Im way too much of a jerk to play for friendly $50s)

Bring Matt! And cash!

Is this an open invite to play for cash, or just for Taz? Just wanted to know if you actually think you're good, or just better than Taz. If you play some sets with Dan, let me know - he has my number.

Im first, you can play second.

D_Lewis
01-08-2010, 02:52 PM
Julius team were sandbagging that's why they won the tournament and went to Vegas hahahahha...Julius should be an 8 not a 5 or 6...:grin-square: I'm a weak 4 in CPA..but i will play Julius even for 8 ball or 9 ball match....lol

I will play you as a SL4 in 8 ball, for $3.

vladmin
01-08-2010, 03:00 PM
I will play you as a SL4 in 8 ball, for $3.

I'll play you as a 6 but you gotta spot me 3 games. For $5 ;)

D_Lewis
01-08-2010, 03:12 PM
I'll play you as a 6 but you gotta spot me 3 games. For $5 ;)

$3 is my max, pay double for a shutout.

tarcisio
01-08-2010, 03:15 PM
In your eyes, you guys got played. The cash went this way this time, it might go your way next. It gets washed around anyway. If your sour about it, tell your TD to investigate it a little further next time. I was the one telling him to call our league operator, he refused. We were not hiding anything by telling him that. Six weeks before tourney, this was our handicaps, why would I tell him to call League Operator if I did not honestly think it would rectify the situation in our favour. I think you should be aiming some frustration in another direction.

By the way I will accept cash games no problem. Let me know Taz! "A friendly game for 50.00 sounds good". I hope you are not angry with me I didnt even win the tournament, I was just following the rules of your TD! I am not here to make enemies!!! Good luck in your future play.

Like I said Mike, I'll be at On Cue on Thurs. And it's not about being angry at you for winning and not winning. It's about How I have to "Shut up and grow up". If you read all my postings you'll see that not once, have I called anyone a SandBagger. Not Once did I bring any Mal Intent to anyone,etc. All in All I think I've been very diplomatic. I stated what I saw were facts.and I thought that trip thru south america was funny.... and somewhat informative. I bet any money that there were readers that googled or wikipdiad some of the stuff I wrote.lol. I know I did. :)
I'm the kind of guy that does not get pissed very often unless the guy is a total jerk or cheat's by saying that it's not a foul when it is.I like playing pool because it's a beautiful sport. It's a mixture of all types of skills needed to play this game.I also love fair competition.
I will be at On cue, See you there Bud.

Cardinal_Syn
01-08-2010, 03:43 PM
Julius team were sandbagging that's why they won the tournament and went to Vegas hahahahha...Julius should be an 8 not a 5 or 6...:grin-square: I'm a weak 4 in CPA..but i will play Julius even for 8 ball or 9 ball match....lol

ok Jun, I'll play you even for the cheese. Race to 1 8/9 for chicken wings and maybe korean bbq that's how serious I am. But only race to 1...that's the only way I might get lucky lol

nibz
01-08-2010, 04:58 PM
What time are you guys going? I wanna play...probably not as good as you guys but i`ll take a game either way? send me a pm for thursday

poolscool
01-08-2010, 10:07 PM
I've read this thread and I cannot help but laugh at it. :lmao:

So a guy plays in a TAP tournament at 2 levels below his APA handicap and wins it. What is so shocking about this? This happens on a weekly basis during regular league play. I've seen APA 7s play as 5s in TAP and APA 6s play as 4s in TAP. If this guy joined the TAP league he would likely be a 3 anyway.

If there is any blame to go around it would have to go to the tournament director, yet many of the posters here defend the TD and blame the player. If he ran a handicapped tournament he shouldn't register an unknown player as a low handicapped player. DUH!!

Methinks he wanted to recruit this guy to switch to TAP, and like all the TAP league operators, one of their best recruiting incentives is to offer all APA players a reduced skill level. This is no secret.

Danktrees
01-08-2010, 10:57 PM
ok Jun, I'll play you even for the cheese. Race to 1 8/9 for chicken wings and maybe korean bbq that's how serious I am. But only race to 1...that's the only way I might get lucky lol

Race to 50 for buko juice...get it done.

The Beginner
01-08-2010, 11:51 PM
I will play you as a SL4 in 8 ball, for $3.

Sorry dan I can only afford $2.99 cdn :(


ok Jun, I'll play you even for the cheese. Race to 1 8/9 for chicken wings and maybe korean bbq that's how serious I am. But only race to 1...that's the only way I might get lucky lol

Done...my break first...lol or just what Cedric says...race to 50 for buko juice or make it 2 buko juice..hahahaha

poolscool
01-09-2010, 01:33 PM
how ? were u there ? i didn't think so ! so how would u know if he was gettin 5 to 6 shots @ the table or not ? how would u know if the 6's and 7's were playin poorly ? because of what some dip@#$t buddy of his said well he was there ? how do u know if the 6's and 7's didn't try their guts out and still there was absolutely NOTHING they could do about it because Matt played just as smart as them ? seems like he knows all the shots ! since u were not there, what the hell would u know about it anyhow ? MATT, I DON'T KNOW HOW U SLEEP AT NIGHT, BUT U OTTA BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF !!! AND NOW "(FINALLY)" THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT UR A TRUE SANDBAGGER !!! and thats all i got 2 say about that !!! ps: Dan, trust me ! 5 to 3 race ur in REAL TOUGH with that guy !!! this is for Cuetips by the way :cool:

:crying:

Whine much?

How is he a sandbagger? Sandbagging is defined as deliberately playing below one's ability. From the sounds of it, he played above his assigned skill level. The TD told him what his skill level would be in the tournament and happily took his entry money. He went through all the rounds unscathed and won it. He wasn't DQ'd nor even had his skill level raised in the tournament. As such, he deserved his win.

chokeacola
01-09-2010, 09:03 PM
:crying:

Whine much?

How is he a sandbagger? Sandbagging is defined as deliberately playing below one's ability. From the sounds of it, he played above his assigned skill level. The TD told him what his skill level would be in the tournament and happily took his entry money. He went through all the rounds unscathed and won it. He wasn't DQ'd nor even had his skill level raised in the tournament. As such, he deserved his win.

boy u sure r STUPID !!! :withstupid::speechless: APPARENTLY IF U WERE PAYING ATTENTION U WOULD C THAT HE PLAYED HIS TRUE ABILITY !!! APPARENTLY WHICH WAS MUCH STRONGER THAN HIS BULLS@#T HANDICAP AS A 3 !!! AND U THINK HE DESERVED HIS WIN ? R U F@#$KIN NUTS OR R U JUST IN ON IT 2 ? I'M SURPRISED HE DIDN'T GET ROBBED AS SOON AS HE WALKED OUT THE FRONT DOOR !!! AND THE REASON Y HE DIDN'T GET DQ'D OR HAVE HIS SKILL LEVEL RAISED IS PROBABLY BECAUSE THE TD WAS EITHER IN ON IT OR TRYING 2 RECRUIT HIM 2 SWITCH 2 TAP FROM CPA WHICH SEEMS VERY STUPID CAUSE THIS GUY LIVES FAR FROM TORONTO ! AFTER ALL RUMOR HAS IT THAT THIS TD IS OFFERING 1 OR 2 SKILL LEVELS LOWER JUST 2 JOIN HIS LEAGUE WHICH SOUNDS PRETTY STUPID 2 ME ! HE EVEN ERASED ALL THE INFO WITH THE ENTRANTS AND THEIR SKILL LEVELS FROM THE TIME OF REGISTRATION APPARENTLY ON THE FACEBOOK PAGE WHERE THE NAMES WERE LISTED 4 THAT TOURNAMENT IN THE VERY BEGINNING ! NOW IF THAT DON'T SOUND FISHY I DON'T KNOW WHAT DOES ! EITHER WAY, YA SURE HE SHOULD'VE HAD HIS SPOT RAISED OR GOT DQ'D FROM THE TOURNEY 4 THAT DAY ! NOT JUST BE ALLOWED 2 GO ON RIPPING EVERYBODY OFF 4 THE REST OF THE DAY ! IDIOT !!! :nono::barf:

D_Lewis
01-10-2010, 03:52 AM
Thoughts of the day
1) CPA handicaps are ****ed
2) I dont believe G-Corn would let someone sneak into his tournament under-ranked if he had knowledge of it
3) Who are you Chokecola?

The Beginner
01-10-2010, 07:06 AM
:grin: 9 pages and counting....:grin:

vladmin
01-10-2010, 08:46 AM
Thoughts of the day
1) CPA handicaps are ****ed


Tap tap tap

Rep for you my friend :)

scratchs
01-11-2010, 01:03 AM
Very sad this thread is...I have played in state an national level tourneys,an alway had to show membership card an pic Id. Sad...was the TD the league Op too?

Jason Robichaud
01-11-2010, 05:06 AM
This thread has more 1st time posters than any other thread. I wonder if they are really 1st time poster or sandbaggin 2000 + posters.

spongee
01-12-2010, 03:27 PM
both galleyman and wagz101 or should we say mke and matt should not be able to play in any tournament from now on- even if it's cpa, tap or a independant tournament. hopefully the word gets out to every honest player who likes to play pool :wink:

scratchs
01-12-2010, 10:35 PM
This thread has more 1st time posters than any other thread. I wonder if they are really 1st time poster or sandbaggin 2000 + posters.

Looking back through I get your point....I am basically a first time poster.
But I am not new to league play,or tournaments..I have to much heart to sandbag.
Diffently haven't posted 2000 plus post..I am from Oregon..just thought the thread
Was sad...I've never seen a 3 go thro..so many high skill leved people..then to hear he was a 5...well yes this is wrong..but it should have been caught..had the membership
Number been ran..I can go on line run my number an know what teams I have played
On ...how many matchs I've played...win percentage an skill level..
This what I meant by sad....no ill will meant..

Jason Robichaud
01-13-2010, 10:38 AM
Looking back through I get your point....I am basically a first time poster.
But I am not new to league play,or tournaments..I have to much heart to sandbag.
Diffently haven't posted 2000 plus post..I am from Oregon..just thought the thread
Was sad...I've never seen a 3 go thro..so many high skill leved people..then to hear he was a 5...well yes this is wrong..but it should have been caught..had the membership
Number been ran..I can go on line run my number an know what teams I have played
On ...how many matchs I've played...win percentage an skill level..
This what I meant by sad....no ill will meant..

Not directed at any individual, I just noticed a lot of first time posters. I can't remember another thread having so many new guys posting. Even after I posted another 1st post member.

Galleyman
01-14-2010, 11:06 AM
both galleyman and wagz101 or should we say mke and matt should not be able to play in any tournament from now on- even if it's cpa, tap or a independant tournament. hopefully the word gets out to every honest player who likes to play pool :wink:

Who is this? Every honest player, lol! If a tournament director drops the ball and does not follow up with a suspected handicap, dont blame the guy holding the cue, even when we told him to investigate it further.

supergreenman
01-14-2010, 02:11 PM
Who is this? Every honest player, lol! If a tournament director drops the ball and does not follow up with a suspected handicap, dont blame the guy holding the cue, even when we told him to investigate it further.

As far as I'm concerned the TD is only about %15 responsible for this. it's unrealistic to expect that a TD can research every player in a tournment, especially when you have players coming from other jurisdictions and registering the day of the tournament.

%85 of the responsibility lies on the player who decided to try flying under the radar and robbing a tournment because he played at a significantly lower handicapp.

I don't buy any of the arguements that his lower handicapp was because his league director hadn't updated the stats in 6 weeks.

I'm familiar enough with the CPA/APA handicapping system to know that a SL 3 shouldn't be running tables.

poolpro
01-14-2010, 02:53 PM
As far as I'm concerned the TD is only about %15 responsible for this. it's unrealistic to expect that a TD can research every player in a tournment, especially when you have players coming from other jurisdictions and registering the day of the tournament.

%85 of the responsibility lies on the player who decided to try flying under the radar and robbing a tournment because he played at a significantly lower handicapp.

I don't buy any of the arguements that his lower handicapp was because his league director hadn't updated the stats in 6 weeks.

I'm familiar enough with the CPA/APA handicapping system to know that a SL 3 shouldn't be running tables.


I think it is the TD responisibilty, and in the tourneys best interest to attempt to have people play at their proper handicap. No, he should not to do extensive research on every player. He needs to demand the proof from the player. I mentioned this in my first post on this thread.

The burden is on the player, not the TD. The player is responsible to provide proof of identity and handicap. The TD is at fault for NOT holding the player up to his responsibilty. The TD's stance should be " I am busy organizing the tournament. Either you provide proof of your handicap as a 3 or you can play as a 6" Now the td has done his job of protecting the tournament without taking away too much time from his other duties AND PLACING THE BURDEN WHERE IT BELONGS- ON THE PLAYER.

Now the player can choose- 1, come up with verification of his handicap, 2- play as a SL6, 3- do not play at all.

As I said before, WATCH HOW FAST A REAL SL 3 WILL COME UP WITH SOME WAY OF PROVING HIS HANDICAP WHEN FACED WITH HAVING TO PLAY 3 LEVELS HIGHER!

In this scenario, you have a chance of ONE player whining and being upset or the entire rest of the field! Which makes more sense? The player who shows up to play without any proof, or the rest of the players who are playing by the rules?

When you show up to play at an event like that, you have to know that you will be expected to show some ID and verify your SL. If you get penalized, you have no one else to blame!


But still, the bottom line is that it only happened because it was allowed to! That is where the TD failed. His first responsiblity is to his tournamnet field as a whole. This is the very thing that kills events like this.


BTW- Even assuming the TD made the mistake of letting this player in unverified, how do you ignore it when this same unverified player continues on round after round? It seems that some people had brought it to the TD attention. Halfway through, when he is still winning, you hear people complaining, maybe you should go check it out for yourself? I know that the losers will always cry, but it should have rung a bell. " wait a minute, isn't this the same guy who was a little fishy about proving his handicap?" He keeps winning. Someone else complains. At what point do you feel he should get involved?

I am not saying that just because sombody is playing good and winning that there should be changes. You are supposed to be rewarded for good play. I am just saying that there was enough to set off alarms to warrant a little bit of attention by the TD. Maybe a check on a website, or a phone call. It should have been addressed. If the handicap checkes out, then you can tell all the others to deal with it, but at least it would not have just been ignored.


Jw

poolscool
01-17-2010, 07:55 PM
As far as I'm concerned the TD is only about %15 responsible for this. it's unrealistic to expect that a TD can research every player in a tournment, especially when you have players coming from other jurisdictions and registering the day of the tournament.

%85 of the responsibility lies on the player who decided to try flying under the radar and robbing a tournment because he played at a significantly lower handicapp.

I don't buy any of the arguements that his lower handicapp was because his league director hadn't updated the stats in 6 weeks.

I'm familiar enough with the CPA/APA handicapping system to know that a SL 3 shouldn't be running tables.

What radar and what robbery? The TD let him play right to the end as a 3, gave him his money and even congratulated him on the facebook page dedicated to the tournament. Unless the TD was complicit in all of this, that doesn't sound like "robbery" to me.

Bottom line is that the rest of the participants were depending on the TD to check the credentials of the players. Perhaps they might have thought twice about entering a tournament where unknown players get to handicap themselves, particularly at a very low ranking.

LeagueGuy
01-18-2010, 01:10 PM
Just for everyone's information. I asked my League Operator to check the database and see if anything comes up (my L.O. has previosly told me he has access to view all players handicaps in the national database).

He told me he came back with Matt Wagar out of Peterborough. He is listed as a 5 in 8-ball and a 6 in 9-ball. If he was alowed to play as a 3 then it is because he lied, not because he sandbagged.

Gatz
01-18-2010, 01:22 PM
Just for everyone's information. I asked my League Operator to check the database and see if anything comes up (my L.O. has previosly told me he has access to view all players handicaps in the national database).

He told me he came back with Matt Wagar out of Peterborough. He is listed as a 5 in 8-ball and a 6 in 9-ball. If he was alowed to play as a 3 then it is because he lied, not because he sandbagged.

Yeah, which this is worse. This guy should be banned from all tournaments just for doing something retarded like that. If I ever see him at a 404 or another tournament I will certainly let the TD what he did and hope hes not allowed to play.

I still consider that sandbagging though, hes lying about his real handicap to steal the cheese.

seether
01-18-2010, 05:09 PM
May be he should join the triple e league.They have lots of sand baggers.

poolscool
01-19-2010, 02:24 AM
Just for everyone's information. I asked my League Operator to check the database and see if anything comes up (my L.O. has previosly told me he has access to view all players handicaps in the national database).

He told me he came back with Matt Wagar out of Peterborough. He is listed as a 5 in 8-ball and a 6 in 9-ball. If he was alowed to play as a 3 then it is because he lied, not because he sandbagged.

No, if he was allowed to play as a 3 it is because the TD let him play as a 3. Who was in control there, the players or the TD? I would never enter a handicapped tournament if I knew that unknown players were allowed to make up their own skill level, unless they offered themselves up as a 7.

Galleyman
01-19-2010, 08:52 AM
What radar and what robbery? The TD let him play right to the end as a 3, gave him his money and even congratulated him on the facebook page dedicated to the tournament. Unless the TD was complicit in all of this, that doesn't sound like "robbery" to me.

Bottom line is that the rest of the participants were depending on the TD to check the credentials of the players. Perhaps they might have thought twice about entering a tournament where unknown players get to handicap themselves, particularly at a very low ranking.

Thank you! Matt came in at low handicap, that is agreed upon. But it was communicated to us that if you go from the CPA to the TAP league you can play one handicap lower. We also thought this was applicable to the tournament as well, I brought this up in an earlier posting. He bounced between 3 to 5 in 8 ball. At the time we left for tournament, with website not being updated, Matt was a 4, I believe. So, with the adjustment of one handicap lower he played as a three. I would like to ask everyone who is badmouthing Matt, to politely stop it. He is a good kid, that is full of good intentions. I like George, I think he is a great person and is a very good pool player, I just think the handicap issue was clouded and not run efficiently due to the fact that the TAP league wants to invade CPA territory in Scarborough. That is my opinion and I could be wrong, but I am still entitled to it. Thank you.

D_Lewis
01-19-2010, 08:59 AM
Thank you! Matt came in at low handicap, that is agreed upon. But it was communicated to us that if you go from the CPA to the TAP league you can play one handicap lower. We also thought this was applicable to the tournament as well, I brought this up in an earlier posting. He bounced between 3 to 5 in 8 ball. At the time we left for tournament, with website not being updated, Matt was a 4, I believe. So, with the adjustment of one handicap lower he played as a three. I would like to ask everyone who is badmouthing Matt, to politely stop it. He is a good kid, that is full of good intentions. I like George, I think he is a great person and is a very good pool player, I just think the handicap issue was clouded and not run efficiently due to the fact that the TAP league wants to invade CPA territory in Scarborough. That is my opinion and I could be wrong, but I am still entitled to it. Thank you.

Couple of things I noticed here
-he said he was a 3 because he noticed other players going in one under their CPA handicap, correct?
-you had been saying all along that he was only a 3?
-TAP does want to invade scarberia, CPA sucks balls
-there were other players who were offered to play one lower then their established handicaps also
-George is an excellent guy and I highly doubt he will put himself in a situation like this again running a tournament. Its quite unfortunate that Matt had to win the tournament to stir up all of this trouble.

vladmin
01-19-2010, 09:04 AM
Couple of things I noticed here
-he said he was a 3 because he noticed other players going in one under their CPA handicap, correct?
-you had been saying all along that he was only a 3?
-TAP does want to invade scarberia, CPA sucks balls
-there were other players who were offered to play one lower then their established handicaps also
-George is an excellent guy and I highly doubt he will put himself in a situation like this again running a tournament. Its quite unfortunate that Matt had to win the tournament to stir up all of this trouble.

CPA does suck but from what I see, TAP sucks as well. How can you not see a 3 winning game after game ? As a TD you should monitor and look at these things and as a LO for TAP you should have some knowledge and see the difference between luck and sandbagging.

I'm not defending Matt nor the TD. They both ****ed up IMO

D_Lewis
01-19-2010, 09:15 AM
CPA does suck but from what I see, TAP sucks as well. How can you not see a 3 winning game after game ? As a TD you should monitor and look at these things and as a LO for TAP you should have some knowledge and see the difference between luck and sandbagging.

I'm not defending Matt nor the TD. They both ****ed up IMO

The tournament was an independant tournament that used both CPA and TAP handicaps. It wasnt a TAP tournament and Matt doesnt have a TAP handicap.

Because it seems TAP is a little bit tougher handicap wise, the TD let borderline players enter in at the lower handicap. (it seems)

supergreenman
01-20-2010, 01:48 PM
Thank you! Matt came in at low handicap, that is agreed upon. But it was communicated to us that if you go from the CPA to the TAP league you can play one handicap lower. We also thought this was applicable to the tournament as well, I brought this up in an earlier posting. He bounced between 3 to 5 in 8 ball. At the time we left for tournament, with website not being updated, Matt was a 4, I believe. So, with the adjustment of one handicap lower he played as a three. I would like to ask everyone who is badmouthing Matt, to politely stop it. He is a good kid, that is full of good intentions. I like George, I think he is a great person and is a very good pool player, I just think the handicap issue was clouded and not run efficiently due to the fact that the TAP league wants to invade CPA territory in Scarborough. That is my opinion and I could be wrong, but I am still entitled to it. Thank you.


Very good pool players aren't rated as 3s in either CPA, APA or TAP.

vladmin
01-22-2010, 09:29 AM
Just a couple of quick things after getting some clarifications last nite from a very trustworthy source

- Matt was informed of his handicap by John C. (the league operator) of his handicap (lvl 4 on the verge of being 5). This happened before John went on vacation.
- Apparently George allowed everyone to play at a lower handicap than their CPA handicap (hence Jack played as a 6, etc)
- If Matt won it as a 3 ( 1 lvl below his handicap at that moment) then he is good for it.

End of story

poolpro
01-22-2010, 02:58 PM
Just a couple of quick things after getting some clarifications last nite from a very trustworthy source

- Matt was informed of his handicap by John C. (the league operator) of his handicap (lvl 4 on the verge of being 5). This happened before John went on vacation.
- Apparently George allowed everyone to play at a lower handicap than their CPA handicap (hence Jack played as a 6, etc)
- If Matt won it as a 3 ( 1 lvl below his handicap at that moment) then he is good for it.

End of story

Well, assuming all of that is true and EVERYONE was allowed to play a skill level lower, I would have to agree!

It seems silly to have everyone play lower than they are rated. What is the point of that? Why not just have everyone play at their real handicap then? Were they just trying to shorten the races?

This doesn't sit right though. IF it was an agreed upon understanding that all were allowed to play at a level below their true handicap, why all the fuss about a 3 playing well? Why the bit about the guy being on vacation. Why this thread at all?

Why has no one who was there confirmed that EVERYONE was playing below thier established handicap? Did everyone just forget that they also played one level lower?

I am having a hard time understanding that. It seems odd that players who are playing under their own handicap would cry about another player who is playing below their rating. I am not saying I haven't heard whining, but this seems very strange that after all these posts including many who were there and played that it has not come up that EVERYONE was doing the same thing.:confused:


Jw

Jason Robichaud
01-22-2010, 03:16 PM
handicaps suck anyways... a 7 in one league might only be a 4 in another. Best way to judge handicap is get them to play the ghost. Start with 9 balls and keep taking balls off until they win or add until they lose. Problem is, who wants to take that kind of time. I would be 10, never beat the 11 ball. The race would go to your handicap, winner break. Being a 10 I would race to 9+1(give them 8 ball). An 11 9+2 would race to 9 and give the 7.

Shortside K
01-23-2010, 07:28 AM
handicaps suck anyways... a 7 in one league might only be a 4 in another. Best way to judge handicap is get them to play the ghost. Start with 9 balls and keep taking balls off until they win or add until they lose. Problem is, who wants to take that kind of time. I would be 10, never beat the 11 ball. The race would go to your handicap, winner break. Being a 10 I would race to 9+1(give them 8 ball). An 11 9+2 would race to 9 and give the 7.

No potential for sandbagging here...

vladmin
03-08-2010, 06:15 AM
Not to worry, he did it again

He won the single boards qualifiers in CPA so Matt's going to Vegas ... I really dont think this is more than a mere coincidence ;)

tarcisio
03-12-2010, 04:58 AM
I would like to give my congratulations to Matt and all his Backers (GALLEYMAN), I hope he has a wonderful time there. Remember Matt what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. But also you remember this.. What goes around comes around.

D_Lewis
03-12-2010, 11:45 AM
Offer still stands for ANY CPA sandbagger to come play some 8 ball.

Jason Robichaud
03-12-2010, 01:45 PM
Offer still stands for ANY CPA sandbagger to come play some 8 ball.

How much are u looking to play for? I can sandbag a CPA handicap, is a 3 ok?

The Beginner
03-14-2010, 02:19 PM
Offer still stands for ANY CPA sandbagger to come play some 8 ball.

Dan im a 2....so do we have a match? ..100 meters run..lmao.

D_Lewis
03-14-2010, 06:06 PM
How much are u looking to play for? I can sandbag a CPA handicap, is a 3 ok?
Do you think it will be worth the expense to play me?

Dan im a 2....so do we have a match? ..100 meters run..lmao.

Yes, you can have a spot.

I'll spot you 100 meters in a 1500 race.

dbl or nothing?
07-20-2010, 08:36 PM
This dead?
Sounds like a great idea to me?? might have to join this cpa league? season of left handed play could help my game out...

So??? is there a big payday tourny, like Canadians or something? that I can play as a 3?

Watched the local cpa "team play offs" bunch of bums hoggn' the tables at the pool hall..

seether
07-22-2010, 04:40 PM
HIS NAME IS MATT VRAAGH OR SOMETHING WITH THOSE LETTERS FROM PETERBOROUGH !!! HE JUST ROBBED THE TOURNAMENT AT ON CUE BILLIARDS AND GOT OVER 800$ WITH THE CALCUTTA LAST SAT WITHOUT A CHALLENGE FROM ANYBODY !!! FIRST OF ALL GEORGE HAD NO PROOF THAT HE WAS A 3 HANDICAP IN CPA AND HE JUST TOOK HIS WORD FOR IT !!! BIG MISTAKE !!! I'LL BET THAT IF U CHECK cpasouthont.com U'LL PROBABLY FIND HIM AS A 5 HANDICAP AT LEAST !!! HE PLAYS OUT OF PETRINAS I HEARD AND SOMEBODY SHOULD ASK FRANK KAKOUROS WHAT HIS REAL HANDICAP IS !!! HE SHOULD KNOW !!! SO ALL U GUYS KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN FOR THIS GUY MATT AND DON'T BELIEVE A WORD HE SAYS !!! GEORGE, YA GOTTA DO YOUR HOMEWORK MAN !!! OTHERWISE THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN !!! :angry:
I dont care fore the sandbagging weasal,alwright.