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View Full Version : Explain cues to me please part 2


8up
03-10-2010, 11:11 AM
Ok I got a lot of replies in my first part. Now I will tell you why I ask.

I own a Lucasi its straight and 19oz. The taper feels nice. It retails right now for $151. I can not blame the stick for any bad play.

I also had a cheap cue bottom of the line that I sometimes break with at home. Its ferral is cracked and has duct tape around it and has a flat tip thats almost worn down to the ferral. Its warped as well. Yet it breaks the balls harder and leaves them spread out better than any other stick I have. Why I have no idea?

Now I just won a Schon CX-36 which is no longer made but seems to probably be a $600-$800 stick.

Now my mind is debating whether to keep the schon which might give me a little confidence knowing I have a good stick. OR selling the stick to help with getting some professional instruction. Pride says keep the stick but the logical part of my brain (and my shooting) says I would benefit more from the lessons. Chances are the only way I will ever own another $500 stick is to save my money for a year or more.

So in a nutshell. is a lower level player better off keeping a $500 stick because he may never be able to afford another or is he better off getting lessons and continuing to play with his $150 stick.

Shaft
03-10-2010, 11:28 AM
I have heard someone say,
"The butt is for show and the shaft is for dough."

There's probably some truth in there, but I really think the right saying is,
"The cue is for show and the stroke is for dough."

Point is, I think a good player (I am NOT a good player) can play with any house cue after a short time to get the feel. A personal cue has definite advantages: The cue you are used to will feel comfortable and familiar. You will know how to play it like a musician gets to know his instrument. But the real key is the indian, not the arrow.

With a limited budget, I often obsess about my next cue buying decision, but I do not believe in the "UberCue": I do not believe in the perfect weight or balance point or taper or joint etc.

I am trying different cues to find the one that feels best... to me. MHO.

Grilled Cheese
03-10-2010, 11:34 AM
As long as you're getting lessons from a good instructor, the lessons are vastly more valuable and helpful to your game than any cue.

99% of amateur pool players are completely equipment fixated. Some call it the "Excalibur Syndrome"...always searching for the cue or equipment that will make them shoot better. It's a search that is never complete and never will be because it's based on a false premise.

One of the most liberating things and one of the critical moments in a player's career is the day they dismiss that type of thinking and become skills-based thinking. Hopefully one never gets into thinking a cue will make their game. Beginners that avoid that tend to get better faster and become good players while others languish in mediocrity.

I will say this, good equipment can help - but it doesn't make for a good game. Example would be equipment that is consistent. That's #1. Low deflection shafts help a little - but aren't going to make you play well.

Here's a good example. I've been to a number of major tournaments and got to speak with a large number of top players. You'd be surprised to learn that most of them are somewhat clueless when it comes to cues and tips and gear compared to many of the people on this forum who can't run 5 balls. These pros know equipment, but they aren't fanatical to the extreme details and differences. Some barely know anything about what they use. They go with something that feels good and then they focus on their game. THEIR game. Cue doesn't make your game. You do.

In short, they're busy playing more rather than obsessing on cues.

About the cues you asked I'll give you my opinion. The difference in playability between the Schon and Lucasi is ZERO. One is not better than the other.

I do believe there is a basic quality level though. I'm not one of these players that thinks a broomstick will do if you're good enough. Buy a good cue and you're set. Schon, Lucasi, Predator, OB, Viking, Meucci whatever. As long as the cue plays consistent - it's good enough. And you can get consistent play in many brands from $100 - $200.

Beware_of_Dawg
03-10-2010, 11:35 AM
First off... It's a cue. Just because it happens to be partially made of wood does not make it a STICK!!!

[/ok pet peeve greveance aired.]

If you dont keep/use the Schon you will regret it. Wheter or not it's true, if you sell it and don't play with it you will think it was the biggest mistake you ever made. Every shot you miss... that Schon will pop into your head. lol.

SK Custom Cues
03-10-2010, 11:36 AM
Get the lessons, and with the winnings you can buy another cue.

dru
03-10-2010, 11:42 AM
I have to agree with most on this...a buddy of mine owned a schon and yea it played nice and hit nice but no different than my viking or TXQ (tripple cross, one of a kind). So in all honesty sell it take the money and get some good lessons...and you'll find in time it was well worth it, and you may be able to make some of it back by winning

Celtic
03-10-2010, 12:21 PM
Hypothetical situation, you sell the cue, you get some lessons with the money. 6 months down the road you find you learned a few useful tips in the lessons but alot of stuff did not work so well for your particual style of play. The killer to you now is that you are shooting with that $150 cue and your game has naturally improved simply from the time commitment you have put into the game more then anything, and now with that time commitment and improved skill you are starting to get a "feel" for the differences in certain types of cues and you now can tell the difference in "feel" that the schon had over your $150 cue and can see how its hit could positively affect your game. Schons are known to be great "feeling" production cues, you might not be able to tell yet waht the critical differences are but if you actually do improve you will start to appreciate the superior quality construction of a better built cue.

I agree with the guy above, lessons may help abit but once you buy them you are left with nothing but the kowledge and experience and you better hope that pays off. You keep the cue instead and practice with it you not only might start shooting better but you maintain possession of a valuable asset that you can liquidate at any time.

James2003
03-10-2010, 12:32 PM
Ok I got a lot of replies in my first part. Now I will tell you why I ask.

I own a Lucasi its straight and 19oz. The taper feels nice. It retails right now for $151. I can not blame the stick for any bad play.

I also had a cheap cue bottom of the line that I sometimes break with at home. Its ferral is cracked and has duct tape around it and has a flat tip thats almost worn down to the ferral. Its warped as well. Yet it breaks the balls harder and leaves them spread out better than any other stick I have. Why I have no idea?

Now I just won a Schon CX-36 which is no longer made but seems to probably be a $600-$800 stick.

Now my mind is debating whether to keep the schon which might give me a little confidence knowing I have a good stick. OR selling the stick to help with getting some professional instruction. Pride says keep the stick but the logical part of my brain (and my shooting) says I would benefit more from the lessons. Chances are the only way I will ever own another $500 stick is to save my money for a year or more.

So in a nutshell. is a lower level player better off keeping a $500 stick because he may never be able to afford another or is he better off getting lessons and continuing to play with his $150 stick.


The way I see it you have two choices.. Sell it or keep it. Either way I would buy a 314 shaft for which ever cue you keep. If you like the looks lif the Schon keep it and sell the Lucasi for $100 and put that towards a 314 shaft for the Schon.

Or sell the Schon buy a 314 shaft for the Lucasi. (which will make it play a heck of a lot better)

CreeDo
03-10-2010, 12:41 PM
You've got two things confused. How a cue plays and how it breaks are two different things. A hard tip breaks the balls better. The beater has a very hard packed tip from all the abuse it's taken over the years. Hence the better spread. You may also subsconsciously really Give-it-to-'er when you use the beater, because you aren't scared of hurting it.

As for whether a person should spend money on a cue or lessons - I can't believe anyone suggests the cue. Lessons (if they're good lessons and they actually improve your game) will allow you to experience better, more enjoyable pool.

The bottom line is: you want to enjoy pool. What do you get out of pool? Do you want to show off your pretty cue to your buddies and pretend you're a great shooter? Or do you want to actually BE a great shooter? The stick will not make you a great shooter.

If you add up every ball you missed due to the difference between a $150 stick and a $600 stick, at the end of a month you will still be counting on one hand. If you add up every ball you missed due to the difference between your current shooting level and the level that lessons will help you reach ... the number is much larger.

I promise you, a $150 dollar cue is enough to put up a 6 pack at the local pool hall. But you're never reaching a 6 pack without knowledge and a correct stroke.

Andrew Manning
03-10-2010, 12:46 PM
So in a nutshell. is a lower level player better off keeping a $500 stick because he may never be able to afford another or is he better off getting lessons and continuing to play with his $150 stick.

There is absolutely no doubt that if your priority is improving your game, the lessons will be of far greater value than a cue possibly could.

A lot of people like nice cues because they're nice cues. They're prettier, they're finer examples of craftsmanship, they're a status symbol in poolrooms, they're collectibles, they hold their value and sometimes appreciate, and in many cases they're unique. But they don't make you play any better, provided you already have a cue which is solid (which you do).

Lessons, on the other hand, absolutely can help you play better.

So your question is a no-brainer, if your only priority is improving your game.

-Andrew

budonahog
03-10-2010, 12:57 PM
It is my belief that you should keep the cue. I have sold a couple of cues that I wished I would have kept.( sentimental reasons, not price). The cue is costing you nothing to keep because you already own it. Save a little money and take a lesson. Practice the fundamentals from that lesson while you save for another lesson and so on. Just my two cents worth.

chevybob20
03-10-2010, 12:58 PM
Sell the cue (or raffle it if you can get more). Then, go to the "ask the instructor" section of AZB and find an instructor. I'm not a great player but I do know that I didn't waste my money on instruction. In fact, I'm going back this year. That Schon is great, but quality instruction is more valuable.

skip
03-10-2010, 01:41 PM
Why not sell the lucasi for $100.00 keep the schon an but the 3 pack dvd set. There are a lot of great dvds out there. Skip :smile:

cuejunkie
03-10-2010, 02:24 PM
...Pride says keep the stick but the logical part of my brain (and my shooting) says I would benefit more from the lessons. Chances are the only way I will ever own another $500 stick is to save my money for a year or more.

So in a nutshell. is a lower level player better off keeping a $500 stick because he may never be able to afford another or is he better off getting lessons and continuing to play with his $150 stick.

i think most people would benefit more from lessons than from a cue, so no arguement there.
but you say if you sell off your cue that it would take you "a year or more" even to buy one in that price range.
why not just keep the cue and take lessons here and there throughout the course of the year? i'm sure they won't be too much to afford.
and even if the lessons cost $500 over the course of one year that's only $42/mth
trust me... lessons take time to learn and a lifetime to master.
unless you're in a huge rush to improve, keep your new cue.

rbpwrd240
03-10-2010, 02:47 PM
Sell the Schon and take some lessons then concentrate on getting a low deflection shaft. IMO

8up
03-10-2010, 02:47 PM
I have 5 books and DR dave's cd's. But when I try the shot and it doesn't work the book isn't standing there telling me what I did wrong. I do have sometime to think about it before the schon shows up. I will use this time to read and use the cd's but I doubt there is anything that compares to a good instructor. I just hate the thought of possibly making bad habits harder to break by playing with them longer.

A 314 shaft would be nice if I could find a used one to fit the lucasi. Which opens another choice. The schon has the same type joint as another cue I have so I might could buy a 314 shaft and sell the lucasi.

for lessons I have several choices if I sell the cue.

Use the money for gas and drive 1300 miles to a top instructor for free lessons.

Drive half that far for lessons with another respected instructor at a discounted rate.

Book with Stan Shuffet 250 miles and wait until summer for an opening $500.

Find someone local instructor

Table time is not an option as I have one in the basement.

Keep the opinions coming I appreciate them.

johnqbs
03-10-2010, 08:37 PM
Ok I got a lot of replies in my first part. Now I will tell you why I ask.

I own a Lucasi its straight and 19oz. The taper feels nice. It retails right now for $151. I can not blame the stick for any bad play.

I also had a cheap cue bottom of the line that I sometimes break with at home. Its ferral is cracked and has duct tape around it and has a flat tip thats almost worn down to the ferral. Its warped as well. Yet it breaks the balls harder and leaves them spread out better than any other stick I have. Why I have no idea?

Now I just won a Schon CX-36 which is no longer made but seems to probably be a $600-$800 stick.

Now my mind is debating whether to keep the schon which might give me a little confidence knowing I have a good stick. OR selling the stick to help with getting some professional instruction. Pride says keep the stick but the logical part of my brain (and my shooting) says I would benefit more from the lessons. Chances are the only way I will ever own another $500 stick is to save my money for a year or more.

So in a nutshell. is a lower level player better off keeping a $500 stick because he may never be able to afford another or is he better off getting lessons and continuing to play with his $150 stick.

man can not live by two cues alone. keep the schon you seem to have
a good deal in it . what will happen if you sell cue ,after you spend money
in about a week or two money will be gone who knows where. your good
friend will be sporting a nice schon cue . been there and done that .
think about it take care johnqbs:anderson sc

TSW
03-10-2010, 09:28 PM
Sell both and buy a Custom Cue! You can't play well without a Custom Cue!!

</sarcasm off>

Seriously, if you want to play better, sell the Schon and pay for lessons and practice time. If you want to have a nice cue, sell the other ones and keep the Schon. It's up to you which one will make you happier.

12squared
03-10-2010, 09:35 PM
If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a night; if you teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime. (or something like that).

Schon's will always be available when you're ready. If you are serious about pool, sell it and take advantage of the lessons you could not otherwise afford or play like crazy and gamble on the cheap to force you to try your best. That will be your gift.

Dave

krelldog
03-10-2010, 11:21 PM
I just went through a similiar experience. In mine I purchased the stick and played with it for about a month and then realized I need instruction if I want to get significantly better....which is my main goal.

I've had 2 lessons and I'm shocked how much I've learned. There is no way I would have figured out on my own what my instructor has already taught me. I would play with a house cue before I would give up what I learned. The fundamentals that are neccesary to hit the ball straight make total sense to me now. It has also made practicing much more fruitful.

I don't believe in a "magic" cue either. There are too many phenomenal cue makers making great cues...at all price points. And if your wallet becomes a little light-buying a used cue won't hurt. Besides you already have a good cue.

Good luck with your decision.

Hidy Ho
03-10-2010, 11:32 PM
If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a night; if you teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime. (or something like that).



What if I'm a vegan? :grin-devilish:

JB Cases
03-10-2010, 11:44 PM
What if I'm a vegan? :grin-devilish:

LOL - then it's give a man a potato and he will eat for a night but teach him to farm and he will get subsidies forever.

JB Cases
03-10-2010, 11:52 PM
Sell the Schon. You were talking about Karma the other day and if you really believe in it then believe that you won it so that you can afford to invest in your game. Dave is 100% right. Cues come and go but skill must be earned. With skill you can walk into any tournament and be a threat to win it. Without skill you are just another guy with a fancy cue who is donating to the prize fund.

I regret selling a few cues in my life but not so much that I would give up the resulting experiences they paid for.

Doc Holliday
03-11-2010, 09:28 AM
Well I guess the answer to your question depends alot on how dedicated you are to improving and how well you play now. Are you in a league(apa, tap,bca) or any thing that would give you a skill rating? Novice can mean alot of things. If you are absolutely incapable of running 3 balls then yes, by all means sell the schon and get help with your fundamentals in a pool school. However if you have a good grasp of the basics, keep your nice schon and practice with it daily. Find some players in your area (perhaps join a league if you arent in one) that are a little better than you and play with them. Also consider watching some dvds of the pros playing, nothing helps more than watching the best and learning from them- patterns, decision making, safeties, etc. Long story short- Don't sell your schon unless you are absolutely in desperate need of instruction, you will regret it.

I owned a schon for a while, had a custom cue made and GAVE IT AWAY like a dumbass. My father has it now, I can still pick it up and play lights out, man they are nice cues.

dru
03-12-2010, 08:54 AM
Well I guess the answer to your question depends alot on how dedicated you are to improving and how well you play now. Are you in a league(apa, tap,bca) or any thing that would give you a skill rating? Novice can mean alot of things. If you are absolutely incapable of running 3 balls then yes, by all means sell the schon and get help with your fundamentals in a pool school. However if you have a good grasp of the basics, keep your nice schon and practice with it daily. Find some players in your area (perhaps join a league if you arent in one) that are a little better than you and play with them. Also consider watching some dvds of the pros playing, nothing helps more than watching the best and learning from them- patterns, decision making, safeties, etc. Long story short- Don't sell your schon unless you are absolutely in desperate need of instruction, you will regret it.

I owned a schon for a while, had a custom cue made and GAVE IT AWAY like a dumbass. My father has it now, I can still pick it up and play lights out, man they are nice cues.
You shot real well with it if u werent busy smashing in Valley Forge...

cswann1
03-13-2010, 06:57 AM
Well, I own 3 Schons and love them all. I have a Schon jointed OB2 shaft and will likely get another for the off-chance of a needed spare.


Having said that, I agree with everyone who suggests selling and spending that money on some good personal instruction. But with one caveat.

The personal instruction is really the best thing to do if you are new to pool and are not reaching your potential at the table due to flaws in your mechanics. A teacher will show how to play so that you get the most from your game as it is now, then all you do is learn to play smarter. Which a teacher can also help with, but at some point you must learn to rely on yourself, and what shots you are comfortable with.

If you've been playing pool for a while and have a well grounded game mechanically, I'd say keep the Schon, and focus on playing smarter. You can learn that for little or no money by:

Practicing
Watching skilled players
Reading forums like this
Reading books or watching DVD's


Above all, nothing and I mean NOTHING will ever replace practice on your part. A teacher can tell you what you are doing right and wrong, but he/she will never be able to step into your body and make your hands do what they can do. Good pool is a result of a practiced stroke coupled with a thoughtful approach to a table.

n33njah
03-13-2010, 08:14 AM
I truthfully will say this and its my humble opinion.



No matter what you do, no matter which cue you sale or keep, no matter who you take instruction from, no matter what you play with You will only improve at the rate of your dedication to the game. I personally have never taken lessons from an instructor, I've had lessons from the other side of the coin. Learning by figuring out what works, what doesnt work, gambling and taking risks. Not suggesting that you do this but honestly i learned when I first started playing and Practiced every single day for at least 2 hours a day that My game improved immensly, when I let my play nosedive due to work and other issues my game nosedived. You will progress at a rate parallel to the investment you provide.


Will lessons boost your learning curve? If you invest the time to practice what they teach and preach then yes. Will dvd's and books help? Amazingly so, but for my personality and learning type I have to do it my way which is to set it up 100 times until one goes and I recreate it and try to remember.


It's entirely up to you and to be honest. You shouldn't sell a cue you value, or love to take lessons at the whim of several opinionated people like us.

Maniac
03-13-2010, 08:35 AM
This is how I would do this if it were me, but it ain't me so these only suggestions/opinions.

If you think that somewhere down the line you are going to want another cue than the Lucasi, but may never be able to afford it, then I'd keep the Schon. The Schon is the last cue you may ever need, if taken well care of.

I have a Lucasi and NEVER feel disadvantaged when I pull it out of the case to use it.

I took lessons from a certified BCA instructor for two days at a cost of $600. While the instructions helped my game, I don't feel as though I got $600 worth. Day 2 was a total waste, IMO.

I would see if there is a good player locally who may give you free or cheap instructions on whatever you need to work on. If you were near my home, I'd give you free lessons up to a certain degree of my own skills/abilities.

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!! I thought I would reach a plateau with my playing because of my age (almost 57). Although my learning rate has slowed down, I still see my game progressing. This is due to countless hours of practice. Play all that you can.

If you are not in a league, then join one. You will learn much by watching the better players when they match up. Many are willing to answer questions you may have about a shot/shots they took during their match, once their match is over. A warning here: It is recommended to NOT approach the player who has just LOST their match ;).


Hope this post helps you some. Good luck with whatever decision you go with. It sounds to me like it's gonna be a win-win decision no matter how you go!!!

Maniac

3andstop
03-13-2010, 08:47 AM
First off... It's a cue. Just because it happens to be partially made of wood does not make it a STICK!!!

[/ok pet peeve greveance aired.]

Well, I'm not a collector of cues, so I'd say if (and its a big if) you find the correct instructor, you would be much better off.

I wish I could afford some instruction. I've been playing for nearly 50 yrs. with 14.1 being my favorite game. I'm a 40 - 50 ball runner with a rare occasional higher run showing up.

If I could afford an instructor, I wouldn't consider one who couldn't run more balls than me on a regular basis and be a great instructor to boot. But that's just how I look at it.

Now, as for the pet peeve about calling it a stick.... LOL, that's just what it is according to the dictionary. Please note #1 letter "d"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stick :shrug:

8up
03-13-2010, 08:52 AM
I play at least a couple hours a day. I am getting better. I am sure my mechanics could use some work. my eye for cut shots I am happy with 90% of the time. My ball control sucks, If I try to play any kind side spin I usually miss the ball. but is getting a little better. Bank shots and combo shots are my weak spots.

I will read and use dvd's for now and try to post some video of my stroke. Thanks Everyone.

onewikdpony
03-13-2010, 09:56 AM
All this advice about selling the schon and taking lessons is is 99% of the time youll sell the cue and spend the money.all the time if you watch people thats how it happens everyone says not me bs enjoy

8up
03-14-2010, 09:48 PM
I have decided to keep the Schon and get lessons at some point down the road. I never thought I would own a cue that would cost as much as this Schon. I will keep it as I have been provided with books and dvd's and even a good case coming. So after reading everyone's advice and thinking about it I have decided to play with the cards I was dealt so to speak. I think things happen for a reason and to many things fell together to make it all happen this way.

Thanks everyone

berlowmj2
03-14-2010, 09:53 PM
Ok I got a lot of replies in my first part. Now I will tell you why I ask.

I own a Lucasi its straight and 19oz. The taper feels nice. It retails right now for $151. I can not blame the stick for any bad play.

I also had a cheap cue bottom of the line that I sometimes break with at home. Its ferral is cracked and has duct tape around it and has a flat tip thats almost worn down to the ferral. Its warped as well. Yet it breaks the balls harder and leaves them spread out better than any other stick I have. Why I have no idea?

Now I just won a Schon CX-36 which is no longer made but seems to probably be a $600-$800 stick.

Now my mind is debating whether to keep the schon which might give me a little confidence knowing I have a good stick. OR selling the stick to help with getting some professional instruction. Pride says keep the stick but the logical part of my brain (and my shooting) says I would benefit more from the lessons. Chances are the only way I will ever own another $500 stick is to save my money for a year or more.

So in a nutshell. is a lower level player better off keeping a $500 stick because he may never be able to afford another or is he better off getting lessons and continuing to play with his $150 stick.

Lessons will make an infinitely greater contribution to your learning curve.