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Neil
03-11-2010, 06:52 AM
I ws at the poolroom last night watching the league players warm up. A 6 was showing a 4 how to play 8 ball. The 4 was a good shot maker, but knew nothing about english or position. It was the 4's turn, he has solids. The 6 level player told him what to shoot and why. Needless to say, my eyebrows raised a bit when the 4 pulled it off, what do you think he did?? And, what would you do?? Playing on a diamond barbox.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FOHI2GRdk2HILo2LXxY3PPuo@

jdxprs
03-11-2010, 07:01 AM
too hard to tell the angle off the 6 in the corner. looks like the six to the bottom right corner might play the cue with top to run into the 12. if so, 7 to same pocket as 6, 8 to either of the left corner pockets.

Danzing3
03-11-2010, 07:02 AM
I ws at the poolroom last night watching the league players warm up. A 6 was showing a 4 how to play 8 ball. The 4 was a good shot maker, but knew nothing about english or position. It was the 4's turn, he has solids. The 6 level player told him what to shoot and why. Needless to say, my eyebrows raised a bit when the 4 pulled it off, what do you think he did?? And, what would you do?? Playing on a diamond barbox.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FOHI2GRdk2HILo2LXxY3PPuo@

Cut the 6 in the side made the stripe in corner got shape on his last ball and ran out.

Neil
03-11-2010, 07:06 AM
It's almost a guarantee that no one will guess correctly what he did, but I want to see all the responses before I spill the beans.

Bambu
03-11-2010, 07:07 AM
Thin the 6 and float down soft, to the lower side pocket rail? The 8 ball looks pretty big from that angle, but I dont know if a 4 could pull it off.

If he didnt like that, I might have him try to cut the 6 in the corner, rail first off the 12.

Big_H515
03-11-2010, 07:24 AM
Neil, since you said the 4 knew nothing about english or position, im gonna guess and say the 7 passes the 12 and the 6 told him to shoot the 6 ball in the bottom side pocket with center ball sending the CB to the side rail before the side pocket and up towards the short rail near the 7. (two rail "Z" shape)

I see a couple possible ways to shoot this other than that.

you could do the same shot except shoot the 6 into the bottom right corner pocket and force follow with spin off the side rail and up.

you may be able to power draw off the six into corner pocket going 3-4 rails onto the 7

you could somehow try to pocket the 6 and attempt to attack the 12 ball, but the CB could get funny on you if you make the 12.

that is all assuming the 7 does pass the 12..diagram doesn't show it well, and it wasn't mentioned.

if it doesn't pass, I might play safe...moving the 6 ball to block the 12 and leaving the CB around the lower side pocket allowing the 8ball to be a blocker if i didn't quite the 6 there.

I can't say what I would do, but those are the options I see.

hell, the low % shot..two rail the 6 upper left corner and float up for the 7.

RShellhouse
03-11-2010, 07:25 AM
Im gonna guess banked the 6 ...then banked the 7 and played the 8

Neil
03-11-2010, 07:43 AM
The 7 does not pass the 12. I wish I had some extra money, I would gladly pay anyone that could guess this one right! All I have is rep, so I will rep anyone that guesses it correctly. Hint- you have to think "out of the box", way, way, way, out of the box! (I'm still shaking my head that the 6 would even tell him to do what he did, let alone the 4 actually pulling it off! I wouldn't have thought it possible. I'm still not so sure it is possible, even after seeing it!

Big_H515
03-11-2010, 07:53 AM
did the 6 tell him to use english, or were these shot with center ball...you said the 4 was a shotmaker with no english/postion abilities.

SpiderWebComm
03-11-2010, 07:57 AM
Shoot the 6 bottom right and make the 12 on the same shot. Make the 7 bottom-right and you're out.

12squared
03-11-2010, 07:59 AM
cut the 6 to go in the corner pocket off the 12 to clear the pocket for the 7. The cue will go naturally go cross table towards the bottom rail w/shape on the 7 once the 12 is moved. ?????

Dave

Neil
03-11-2010, 08:05 AM
As far as I could tell, he didn't use any english on the shot. And, you guys are not thinking far enough out of the box yet. Hint #2- he did not run out, but played a safe, and a good one at that.

Danzing3
03-11-2010, 08:13 AM
He shot the 6 into the stripe knocking it over on the other solid and rolling up behind it and hooking him or blocking him from making it anywhere.

Big_H515
03-11-2010, 08:13 AM
neil said think outside the box.. like backward cut the 6 to the top side pocket or something crazy like that.

Big_H515
03-11-2010, 08:20 AM
i give up. lol

JustinHayes
03-11-2010, 08:21 AM
Neil, ... I really enjoy your "what would you do here" posts and all the responses from AZers... everytime someone mentions something I wouldn't think of... keep'em coming

paksat
03-11-2010, 08:21 AM
I'd have to see the angle better but from what i can tell.. shooting the 6 into the corner with a punching follow stroke should knock the 7 out or make the 12 with the cb.. one or the other.

First thing that came to mind after that tho was shooting the 6 into the 12 making the 12 or knocking it out of the hole...

Maniac
03-11-2010, 08:22 AM
(I'm still shaking my head that the 6 would even tell him to do what he did, let alone the 4 actually pulling it off! I wouldn't have thought it possible.


But.......how many times would he "pull it off" given 100 tries. Anything (to a certain degree of possibility) can be done once. I've seen AND done things that I thought weren't possible.

Maniac

paksat
03-11-2010, 08:23 AM
It's almost a guarantee that no one will guess correctly what he did, but I want to see all the responses before I spill the beans.

top english on the 6 ball sending the 6 ball 2 rails into the opposite corner and squeezing 7 past the 12?? :eek:

KoolKat9Lives
03-11-2010, 08:24 AM
Ok wild goose chase man ;)


Eliminating anything (not yet discussed) remotely conventional:

- I don't see him doing a soft kick (off the low long rail) on the 7, and leaving the 7 as a blocker on the 12
- Nor cross banking the 6
- nor doing some combo with the 6 into the 8
- I can't see a 4 jumping the 4 to hit the 7


Meh... Cut the 6 into the 12, making the 12. The cue stays down below the foot spot. But that's not twilight zone enuf, so ...

Swing batter batter batter, swing! Whiff!




Me thinks Neil likes this too much and probably pulled wings off flies. :grin-square:

paksat
03-11-2010, 08:26 AM
ok, did he make a ball? Or did he play safe right off the bat? I'm assuming he made the first ball and played safe on the 7?

Kobachi
03-11-2010, 08:26 AM
Ok, he thinned the top side of the six, rolling the cue down near the top side of the 12? Thats my best out of the box safety guess...

Aaron_S
03-11-2010, 08:27 AM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FOHI2GRdk2HILo2LXxY3PPuo3aOHI2aXIK2aXhU2gXxY2gc ht3kPuo3kNqX7kHuS4kbhu4kLhl@

-OR-

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FOHI2GRlj2HILo2LXxY3PPuo3aOHI2aThY2aVlk2aYfd2bR lj2bMOT2gXxY2gbCM2gXXs3kPuo3kNqa4kbWR4kVgv@

brechbt
03-11-2010, 08:27 AM
Can the shooter see all of the seven? Not totally clear in the pic.

CreeDo
03-11-2010, 08:27 AM
Gently thin the left side of the 6, sending the CB to either nestle behind the 12 or run into it and leave an awkward shot on the 8? Obvious risks here.

Can I fire a second barrel? Gently thin the right side of the 6, getting the CB to contact just below the side and leaving the 8 between whitey and the final stripe.

If it's me, I'm drilling in the 6 and running into the 12 for short shape on the 7. But others have guessed that and no go.

paksat
03-11-2010, 08:28 AM
Need more hints neil... still vague and to much that can be done.

Neil
03-11-2010, 09:01 AM
He has him shoot the 6 into 3/4 hit on the 7, figuring that what did happen would happen. I give it about a 1 in a 1,000 chance of actually happening.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FOHI2GRdk2HILo2LXxY3PPun3aOHI2aSba2aVlp2aWrm3kP un3kNqX4kbPi3kaye3kEDm@

This is the result of the shot! An absolutely incredible shot. Incredible in it's performance, and it's stupidity! What would possess someone to even see this as an option is beyond me?? The 6 hits the 7 3/4 ball, slides down the rail to the 12, hits the 12 and moves very little afterwards, the 12 hits the point of the pocket, and rolls in front of the 6. Thereby effectively blocking the pocket.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2FaEb4GJWU2HILo2LaUK3PEkm@

The reason I posted this- lower level players, be careful who you listen to! In this case, the shot worked, and the lower level player thinks he learned something useful. What he actually learned is how to sell out a game! The chances of him EVER pulling this off again are extremely low. And he should have been shown the real options he had in front of him. But instead, now he thinks the 6 is very wise, and will listen to any B.S. he tells him. Thereby hindering his game for years to come. (beats me how the 6 got to be a 6 thinking like that??) The 4 doesn't even realize that he pulled off a once in a lifetime shot.

If you are new to the game, or want to learn more, ask around on who to learn from. Don't just take as gospel what any one better than you says!

paksat
03-11-2010, 10:14 AM
When you said outside the box thinking.. i didn't think you meant absurdity..

What would you have done in this situation neil?

jdxprs
03-11-2010, 10:40 AM
that isnt an absurd shot at all. actually pretty smart shot. if he has decent speed control he has a shot at either stealing the pocket like he did, or the six may come back out and get between the cue and the 12. not like he had much else of a chance.

ftgokie
03-11-2010, 10:49 AM
I ws at the poolroom last night watching the league players warm up. A 6 was showing a 4 how to play 8 ball. The 4 was a good shot maker, but knew nothing about english or position. It was the 4's turn, he has solids. The 6 level player told him what to shoot and why. Needless to say, my eyebrows raised a bit when the 4 pulled it off, what do you think he did?? And, what would you do?? Playing on a diamond barbox.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FOHI2GRdk2HILo2LXxY3PPuo@


Id go low right on cueball cutting solid in the side, when cue hits side rail it should go on down table giving shape on solid on the rail..thats just me though

Neil
03-11-2010, 10:52 AM
When you said outside the box thinking.. i didn't think you meant absurdity..

What would you have done in this situation neil?

LOL! I DID say way, way, way outside the box!

In any case, you are in a tough position here. First look, make the 6, bank the 7. However, I have to toss that option, because it is way to difficult to get anything but a bank on the 8. I don't want to rely on two banks in a row to win if there are other options.

Looking at shooting the 6 to make the 12, block the pocket, and leave him banking the 8 cross corner. With my luck, he would make the bank. But, I don't like that shot anyways. It is pretty tricky to make the 12 and hit it good enough that the 6 would even block the pocket. If you are off just a little to the right, you make the 12 and the 6 doesn't block the hole.

I think I would end up lightly hitting the 6 to go rail first off the 12, blocking the pocket and moving the 12 over by the 7. I have a good chance of blocking him from the 12 with the 8. Still not an easy shot, but the one I would probably go with. If the 6 does drop, I'm screwed, because I would also be hooked from the 7.

ATM
03-11-2010, 10:58 AM
I think its a dumb shot as well. If the 12 is hit right with draw the 12 will follow in. Or play the combo, make the six and leave the cue touching the 12. If the 4 can elevate over the 12 and make the 7 and run out, he isnt a 4, lol.

paksat
03-11-2010, 11:00 AM
that isnt an absurd shot at all. actually pretty smart shot. if he has decent speed control he has a shot at either stealing the pocket like he did, or the six may come back out and get between the cue and the 12. not like he had much else of a chance.

at the angle he has to work with, you want him go almost 6ish diamonds and come off the 7 like he did?

i'd let him go at that shot all day long because most of the time he'll either miss the 7 completely, or hit it and do something completely opposite of what he wanted.. either way, my 12 is still a sitting duck in the pocket.

KoolKat9Lives
03-11-2010, 11:00 AM
Remember though, this guy is a foreignor. He doesn't know any english. ;)

That shot he pulled off was nuts. He had to combo that 6 into the 7 ball just right. He had about a 1/4 of the 7 ball to play with, and not all of that 1/4 ball "range" would yield a positive result.

Neil, you whisker puller you. ;)

ftgokie
03-11-2010, 11:18 AM
WHat the Hell....im at work and just now finished reading the whole thread...it takes pure skill to pull somehting off like that. :rolleyes:

Funny that he did pull it off though....

Neil
03-11-2010, 11:21 AM
On second thought, this is probably closer to what I would really do. I would make the 6 with right english and spin down table. From there, what I would do depends on exactly where I ended up with the cb. Two options- 1-carom off the 7 to make the 12 and have the 7 block his shot on the 8. 2.Shoot the 7 gently onto the 12 and leave him the bank or the kick on the 12 and hope he doesn't make it.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FOHI2GRdk2HILo2LXxY3PPun3aOHI1acYx3kPun3kPNU3kb vd1kPGI@

alstl
03-11-2010, 11:38 AM
Is the 7 ball frozen? If so it goes in the corner pocket after you pocket the six as long as you keep the cue ball on the left side of the table so you can go rail first with low right. If not I'd probably make the six, combo the 7 into the stripe, and leave the cue ball on the rail increasing the degree of difficulty on his shot on the 8 ball.

But then I'm just a banger.

jdxprs
03-11-2010, 11:44 AM
at the angle he has to work with, you want him go almost 6ish diamonds and come off the 7 like he did?

i'd let him go at that shot all day long because most of the time he'll either miss the 7 completely, or hit it and do something completely opposite of what he wanted.. either way, my 12 is still a sitting duck in the pocket.


yes. think about it, the guy is a 4. pocketing the 6 is probably just as low percentage as pushing the six down towards the 7 and hoping to get lucky and tie the 12 up. i wouldnt have played it this way, but if you really think about who is at the table, it really wasnt a bad or crazy play at all. he gave him a chance to knock the 12 out of the pocket, leave the 8 between the cue and the 12 or leave the 6 or 7 (depending on where the 6 hits the 7) blocking the 12.

paksat
03-11-2010, 12:05 PM
yes. think about it, the guy is a 4. pocketing the 6 is probably just as low percentage as pushing the six down towards the 7 and hoping to get lucky and tie the 12 up. i wouldnt have played it this way, but if you really think about who is at the table, it really wasnt a bad or crazy play at all. he gave him a chance to knock the 12 out of the pocket, leave the 8 between the cue and the 12 or leave the 6 or 7 (depending on where the 6 hits the 7) blocking the 12.

The fact that he is a 4 is the exact number one reason I wouldn't want him even trying this shot..

I've posted what I would do.. what i'd have the 4 do is come off the 6 at an angle so it goes to the opposite rail and ends up hopefully behind the 8 for a decent safety... much higher percentage of working then anything else that sl 4 can pull off.

lukemindish
03-11-2010, 12:40 PM
[QUOTE=paksat;2316043]The fact that he is a 4 is the exact number one reason I wouldn't want him even trying this shot..

I've posted what I would do.. what i'd have the 4 do is come off the 6 at an angle so it goes to the opposite rail and ends up hopefully behind the 8 for a decent safety... much higher percentage of working then anything else that sl 4 can pull off.

The whole thing about this situation is the sl6 is TEACHING the sl4. So to not have him even try to attempt it doesnt make sense. The whole point of the game is to learn as much as you can. Not have someone hold you back because you are a skill level 4.

NineballBEN
03-11-2010, 12:54 PM
If I were advising a 4 I'd probably tell them to try and do a back cut on the 6 and block the 12,(safe) then when the 4 gets ball in hand(hopefully) they have 3 simple shots.

paksat
03-11-2010, 01:34 PM
[QUOTE=paksat;2316043]The fact that he is a 4 is the exact number one reason I wouldn't want him even trying this shot..

I've posted what I would do.. what i'd have the 4 do is come off the 6 at an angle so it goes to the opposite rail and ends up hopefully behind the 8 for a decent safety... much higher percentage of working then anything else that sl 4 can pull off.

The whole thing about this situation is the sl6 is TEACHING the sl4. So to not have him even try to attempt it doesnt make sense. The whole point of the game is to learn as much as you can. Not have someone hold you back because you are a skill level 4.

well i'm going to have to agree with neil here and go out on a limb and say somethings sketchy about that guy being a 6.

I'll be at a table here soon, i'll shoot it 15 times and see if i get any of em'... and i'm a 6 btw.