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8Ball48043
03-11-2010, 10:00 AM
Okay, so I'm a C or B player. I can make most shots (excepting banks and kicks). I can make thin cuts, down the rail shots, straight in, etc. etc. etc.

But, I miss shots. I miss shots that, for me and my skill level, are very makeable. Shots that I've made a hundred times before. I miss shots that I should not miss. And .... It's not always the 8-ball or 9-ball. It could be any random ball on my way to the money ball.

My problem could be mechanical. Something about my mechanics not being consistent.

Or, my problem could be mental. Lack of focus, fear of failure, etc.

If I could always make all of the shots that I know I can make .... I'd be an A player!

Thoughts ???

NewStroke
03-11-2010, 10:01 AM
Are you thinking when you shoot? When you get down on a ball to shoot, all thinking should be done. That has helped me.

Jaden
03-11-2010, 10:06 AM
Then it is simply a lack of concentration.

There are ways to help with that.

Get an absolute consistent preshot and shot routine...

If you find yourself slipping out of the preshot/shot routine, stop yourself and get back in it.

Don't think about the shot while you're shooting it... IOW, if you're stroking, don't be thinking about position. Decide what you're going to do with the shot before you get down on it. Strategize, first, then line up on the shot, then get down on it, and only think about what you are doing at that moment. One shot at a time.

Of course, think multiple shots ahead during the strategizing, just not during the shot.

Jaden

pooltchr
03-11-2010, 10:10 AM
If you are asking if the problem is mechanical or mental, we have no way of knowing without seeing you shoot.
But whichever it is, the cause is you are not doing something the same way the same time every shot. You may be doing something different with your stroke, or with your thought process, or with your pre-shot routine, or in how you are aligning yourself and your cue to the shot.
The trick is to pinpoint the cause, and then address the actual problem. This can only be done if you know how to isolate all the different parts of your game.
When we do pool school, we use something called the whole-part-whole process, where we look at the entire game, then break it down to each individual component, then help put all the pieces in place. This is how our students are able to identify the source of any inconsistency, and take action to address it.
If you go out to your car in the morning and it doesn't start, it won't do you any good to hook up the jumper cables if the problem is you are out of gas.
Find out what you are doing differently, then you can fix the problem.

Steve

Neil
03-11-2010, 10:20 AM
.................

deadstroke13
03-11-2010, 11:33 AM
I would have to say overthinking. I do the same thing, especially on staright in shots. I can bank,kick,and cut. But straight in shots forget about it. I think too much on how to get good leave on those type of shots and blow the shot completely.

NineballBEN
03-11-2010, 12:33 PM
"From what I have seen of B players, almost all of them start taking shots for granted once they 'feel good'. The minute you do that, you miss. NEVER take any shot for granted!! As others wisely said, get a preshot routine, and STICK TO IT!Invariably, he would miss a very makeable shot, or hook himself when there was no reason to do so, and sell out the game."

Hey Neil was that me you were playing?:grin: That's me to a "T" brother....I can run rack after rack,but my coach showed me something he noticed about my playing,if I know I'm the better player then I dog shots,no pre-shot routine,my approach to the table is different,my focus isn't there even when I'm the one in the electric chair.My advice to you is to keep drilling that shot in till you get bored and "THEN" you'll see if it's lack of focus or fundamentals as the latter will show up sooner.

Tommy-D
03-11-2010, 12:41 PM
> In my own case,I've concluded that 99% of the shots I miss where the miss is a complete surprise is a result of incorrect STANCE,not concentration lapses or stroke delivery.

Take just a little more time walking into the shot properly,you CAN miss a ball with your feet as easily as with your hands. Tommy D.

Big Perm
03-11-2010, 01:05 PM
> In my own case,I've concluded that 99% of the shots I miss where the miss is a complete surprise is a result of incorrect STANCE,not concentration lapses or stroke delivery.

Take just a little more time walking into the shot properly,you CAN miss a ball with your feet as easily as with your hands. Tommy D.


This is a really interesting comment....on nights where I feel a bit "off", it often seems like my balance isn't solid.....gonna have to work on my stance, thanks for the post....

Also, good points posted about concentration....when the table is full in 9ball, my leaves are much sharper and misses are few....most misses are on the 7 or 8.....buddy of mine told me a couple of times, I clear the trouble, make the hard shots, then let down my guard when the runout is elementary....

Andrew Manning
03-11-2010, 01:32 PM
You have to realize the HUGE difference between a shot you can make, and a shot you can't miss.

I don't have any shots I can't miss, particularly in any kind of a pressure situation where I know a miss will cost me.

Of course, I don't mean literally CAN'T miss, but let's make up an arbitrary threshold of 97%. How many shots are there that you make more than 97% of the time you encounter them? For me, it's barely any. For pros, it's most shots. The difference between me and a player who can spot me the 7 and rob me blind, is nothing but a greater variety of 97% shots. I have good enough CB control to get through a lot of racks of 9-ball facing nothing but shots that would be 97% for a decent short-stop. But for me, they're maybe only 82% shots, and I don't get out.

Recognizing that shots you think you've mastered are still often only 80% shots, is important. 80% is not good enough to run out. You should only really be running 4 balls, if 80% is the best you can do. You need that number in the high 90's before you can start really running racks the way excellent players are supposed to, even if you have amazingly great CB control.

Practice those shots that are high-percentage, but not that high. Make them into REALLY high percentage shots. Those are the kind you need.

-Andrew

peteypooldude
03-11-2010, 01:44 PM
You may want to work on recognizing shots for what they are,15 deg for example ,learn your cte shots .Good luck

peteypooldude
03-11-2010, 02:02 PM
Genomachino showed me how to see my shots correctly and my suggestion is to contact him,the difference is unreal

TATE
03-11-2010, 03:26 PM
Okay, so I'm a C or B player. I can make most shots (excepting banks and kicks). I can make thin cuts, down the rail shots, straight in, etc. etc. etc.

But, I miss shots. I miss shots that, for me and my skill level, are very makeable. Shots that I've made a hundred times before. I miss shots that I should not miss. And .... It's not always the 8-ball or 9-ball. It could be any random ball on my way to the money ball.

My problem could be mechanical. Something about my mechanics not being consistent.

Or, my problem could be mental. Lack of focus, fear of failure, etc.

If I could always make all of the shots that I know I can make .... I'd be an A player!

Thoughts ???

Well, you can remove a big percentage of those types of misses by simplifying things.

For better accuracy:

1- Make it a habit to not cheat the pocket. Aim for center pocket and get position by playing good angles. There are many, many reasons for this. It's part of good shotmaking habits.

2- By all means, master all types of english (side) , but don't use english unless you must use it - which is 99.9% for position.

3 - Only use as much english as you need. In most cases a quarter or half tip is enough, which has very little effect on aiming. The further the tip gets from center, the potential for making aiming mistakes increases exponentially.

4- Don't change anything- that is, after you've aimed, set your tip, and paused. It's really important to trust your set-up. Even if you miss, the feedback is a learning experience. Pool is so much easier if you have confidence in your game.

If you will practice the above for a few months you will remove a big portion of the areas that cause players to miss shots they think they should make.

Chris

KillerCane
03-11-2010, 03:36 PM
lack of focus. BEAR DOWN SON!

JoeyA
03-11-2010, 03:40 PM
One of my students about a week ago was having trouble making a shot where the object ball was frozen to the rail and he had about a 3/4 ball hit to make it.

His skill level is probably a D as he has only been playing a short while.

I checked several things and none of them seem to be the problem, when I looked at the cue ball from directly where he was set up at and it was all too simple and obvious. He lined up his cue for a center ball hit (which he knew to do on this particular shot) but was in fact lining up with 1/8" of side spin. When I told him he was hitting the cue ball with side spin, he protested and said it was straight center ball. I told him to move his bridge hand and shaft over 1/8" to the right and shoot the shot and he made the shot every time.

Sometimes it's something as simple as that. After practicing some center ball hits (bouncing the cue ball off the middle diamond drill) and confirming that he now knows what a center ball hit looks like (NOW) his game is soaring (OK, soaring for a D player who is going to be a C player within the month). He's got a good stroke, stays down on every shot, sets up good so this one little thing may fix him up. Now he is so happy when he goes to the practice table and hits balls.

Anyway, you could get a good player or good instructor to check out what you are doing or even film yourself. You might find yourself moving every now and then which is the kiss of death for most of us.

JoeyA

tom mcgonagle
03-11-2010, 04:03 PM
If I could watch you play I would have a real good idea about what you are doing wrong. Your basically asking Stevie Wonder to help you cross the street..

Asking for suggestions is fine but they could lead to greater problems, at this point.

Seek a professional, hands on opinion, it works better, if you get the right person.

________________________________________

http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com

8pack
03-11-2010, 04:28 PM
Okay, so I'm a C or B player. I can make most shots (excepting banks and kicks). I can make thin cuts, down the rail shots, straight in, etc. etc. etc.

But, I miss shots. I miss shots that, for me and my skill level, are very makeable. Shots that I've made a hundred times before. I miss shots that I should not miss. And .... It's not always the 8-ball or 9-ball. It could be any random ball on my way to the money ball.

My problem could be mechanical. Something about my mechanics not being consistent.

Or, my problem could be mental. Lack of focus, fear of failure, etc.

If I could always make all of the shots that I know I can make .... I'd be an A player!

Thoughts ???

There are a couple of ways to make every shot.
The sight picture is different for each method.
Take for instance a halfball shot. I can aim at 3/4s of the ball with a certain speed and a certain stroke and L or R spin and make it.I have that shot picture memorized.
I can aim right at the edge and with a certain stroke and speed and make it. And you can aim a little past it and make it with a dead center hit on the cb at a cerain stroke and speed which will cause more collision induced throw on the ball and make it.

So knowledge of the shot and the knowledge between what happens when
two ball collide will make you a ball pocketing machine like me.
Plus a good stroke....

cigardave
03-11-2010, 06:06 PM
Here's a couple of catchy sayings to remember... some have already been mentioned in previous posts.

1. The best players pay attention to detail on every shot.

2. Don't shoot in the thinking position (standing up)... and don't think in the shooting position.

3. Rule #1... make the ball. Rule #2... don't forget rule #1.

4. STROKE... don't poke.

Also, it could your shooting mechanics. Recently I found myself missing far too many shots and realized that I wasn't "throwing" my cue while stroking the shot. I am now reminding myself to (almost) let my cue go on my stroke of shot. It has paid off.

pooltchr
03-11-2010, 06:51 PM
If I could watch you play I would have a real good idea about what you are doing wrong. Your basically asking Stevie Wonder to help you cross the street..

Asking for suggestions is fine but they could lead to greater problems, at this point.

Seek a professional, hands on opinion, it works better, if you get the right person.

________________________________________

http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com

Quite possibly the best advice on the entire thread!

Steve

CreeDo
03-11-2010, 08:07 PM
Keep reading Andrew's post until it makes sense, it's exactly right. Every shot you take falls into a range of 'makeability'. You can't be disturbed that you miss certain shots 1 out of 5 times or whatever, because everyone has a threshold where a 100% shot becomes only 90 and then quickly drops to 80%.

The difference between 'can't miss it' and 'miss it 1 out of 5' might be a difference of just 30 inches.

----

You're focusing on shotmaking but honestly I think shotmaking comes from hitting a thousand balls. Maybe you have a fundamentals flaw that an instructor can fix. In the meantime, look at your leaves instead. You feel that if you made all of the shots you think you're supposed to, you'd be an A. It's not true. An A player gets out with 8 or 9 easy shots in a row. They're A's because of their planning and great position.

Then the pros have all the stuff the A player has but they also can't miss anything :)

----

I have a little theory you can try out. It helps me. First, accept that you may never drill in the longer shots, thin rail cuts, or backward cuts the way the pros do. You have to compensate your less than accurate aim with really accurate leaves.

Something that has helped me is to look for specific shots where I can afford to try for very exact, aggressive leave. You can think of running out a rack of 9b as a race. Here you are starting out great, maybe even with BIH, and you get good on the next ball. Then ok on the next ball. Then each leave gets progressively crappier. Eventually it gets out of control and you miss.

Your goal is to slow down the bleeding for as long as possible. Try to keep the cue ball in line as long as you can.

Look for chances to 'reset' your position and actually gain some ground. Look for opportunities to fall just about ball-in-hand perfect on a ball. If you pull it off, you have turned back the clock and pushed back missing/failure for a few more shots. Maybe you've pushed it back enough to finish up the rack.

Learn to recognize which shots demand a really accurate angle and which don't. There's often a tradeoff when playing position in pool: move the cue ball less, guaranteeing you fall in the 'good angle' range... but settle for a longer, more missable shot? Or move it more, but risk overshooting the position or leaving yourself too thin? Look for chances to move it more and get close to the object ball. Close = can't miss it. Close = enough accuracy to cheat either side of the pocket. Close = easier to hold shape if you have too much angle. Close = easier to force position if you have too little angle.

It's hard to give examples of this kind of thinking but I'm gonna try.
In the first one, A is a 100% shot on the 2-ball, but B might be only 95% and you won't get as perfect on the next ball. In the second one, neither shot is really missable but look how much easier it will be to get on that 4 with exactly the right angle and a closer CB, vs. settling for being almost on the right line (but a little too straight and a little too far away).

I believe having this mindset is one of the things that got me to the point where I no longer sweat missing balls, and I can cheerfully admit being scared of shots that many players consider 95%. I just refuse to leave myself those shots.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2ATXo3BXMo2CFCp2PFCp2QOtB2RHsu2UTXo2Ubrq2WFCp2WR cd2WbHg2WOtB2kFCp2kRce2kbIT2kHku@

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ATjE3BATl2CLSD1DTmc2PLSB3QKfn3RRwb3UTjE2UdpB2WL SD3WQpD3WSEK3WVnY3Wavo3WKWn2kLSB3kQxC3kRwb@

crawfish
03-11-2010, 08:11 PM
I'm pretty sure it's your stance. That little thing you do with your tongue out right as you make contact with the cueball is also causing you problems. Also, try not to hum Salt n' Pepa's Push It while you're in your backswing. This is very, very distracting even if you don't think it is. (Especially if you do that bass thing with your cheeks).

Hope this helps.

genomachino
03-11-2010, 08:34 PM
Okay, so I'm a C or B player. I can make most shots (excepting banks and kicks). I can make thin cuts, down the rail shots, straight in, etc. etc. etc.

But, I miss shots. I miss shots that, for me and my skill level, are very makeable. Shots that I've made a hundred times before. I miss shots that I should not miss. And .... It's not always the 8-ball or 9-ball. It could be any random ball on my way to the money ball.

My problem could be mechanical. Something about my mechanics not being consistent.

Or, my problem could be mental. Lack of focus, fear of failure, etc.

If I could always make all of the shots that I know I can make .... I'd be an A player!

Thoughts ???

Hi there,

I know what you are going through. I've seen it 100's of times no 1000's of times.

Your aiming starts with your stance. This is the first part of aiming and you can see the angle and the shot so much better standing straight up and back a little. Your eyes tell you where to stand. This is the first part of most players getting the eyes in the right place naturally.

Sometimes something happens between there and when you get down on the shot that now the eyes are not in the right position. 1/8th of an inch can make the difference of making it or missing it.

You can do everything you want until your blue in the face but if you don't have the eyes right nothing will work.

This is why players miss the same types of shots over and over. The eyes are not in the right position.

Once you learn this technique you can correct any shot that you are shooting so it looks right. Because if it doesn't look right it probably isn't.

Have a great day geno................

Ive got players that couldn't make 3 balls in a row running out.

It's usually the eyes?

Scott Lee
03-11-2010, 09:14 PM
8Ball48043...Regardless of what someone "tells" you, the only real way to 'fix' whatever is wrong, is to, as pooltcher suggested (and Tom McGonagle backed up), learn how to diagnose what is making you miss. This can be done most effectively through video analysis with a qualified instructor. We don't know what we don't know. I'll be in FL for the whole month of April. If you're interested in learning about yourself, PM me.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Okay, so I'm a C or B player. I can make most shots (excepting banks and kicks). I can make thin cuts, down the rail shots, straight in, etc. etc. etc.

But, I miss shots. I miss shots that, for me and my skill level, are very makeable. Shots that I've made a hundred times before. I miss shots that I should not miss. And .... It's not always the 8-ball or 9-ball. It could be any random ball on my way to the money ball.

My problem could be mechanical. Something about my mechanics not being consistent.

Or, my problem could be mental. Lack of focus, fear of failure, etc.

If I could always make all of the shots that I know I can make .... I'd be an A player!

Thoughts ???

12310bch
03-11-2010, 10:36 PM
The Game is a living thing. You must show it respect. Do not disrespect
any shot, no matter how easy it appears.:nono: If you do ,the Game will
slap you upside your head. I have the bruises to prove it.

3RAILKICK
03-11-2010, 11:05 PM
the game is a living thing. You must show it respect. do not disrespect
any shot, no matter how easy it appears.:nono: If you do ,the game will
slap you upside your head. I have the bruises to prove it.


......Amen!......

Mike in MN
03-11-2010, 11:38 PM
If I am repeating what others have said, forgive me. I didn't read all the replies. What I would suggest is really taking an overhauling look at your mental game. A lot of players tend to get mentally exhausted after playing for a couple of hours, and they tend to let fatigue get the best of them.

There are a wealth of books on pool as a mental sport that you could probably benefit from. Personally, I am currently reading up on the art of Zen in order to fine tune my mental game, and I can already see it helping me focus. Learning new breathing exercises or the power of positive thinking can do wonders for a lot of players struggling in the way that you describe.

Cameron Smith
03-12-2010, 12:56 AM
You have to realize the HUGE difference between a shot you can make, and a shot you can't miss.

I don't have any shots I can't miss, particularly in any kind of a pressure situation where I know a miss will cost me.

Of course, I don't mean literally CAN'T miss, but let's make up an arbitrary threshold of 97%. How many shots are there that you make more than 97% of the time you encounter them? For me, it's barely any. For pros, it's most shots. The difference between me and a player who can spot me the 7 and rob me blind, is nothing but a greater variety of 97% shots. I have good enough CB control to get through a lot of racks of 9-ball facing nothing but shots that would be 97% for a decent short-stop. But for me, they're maybe only 82% shots, and I don't get out.

Recognizing that shots you think you've mastered are still often only 80% shots, is important. 80% is not good enough to run out. You should only really be running 4 balls, if 80% is the best you can do. You need that number in the high 90's before you can start really running racks the way excellent players are supposed to, even if you have amazingly great CB control.

Practice those shots that are high-percentage, but not that high. Make them into REALLY high percentage shots. Those are the kind you need.

-Andrew

Well put. That's how I look at the development process of a player, building a repetoire of those shots.

I might add that this includes being able to do anything with the cue ball and the shot is still 95-100%, not simply cinching it.

Taco
03-12-2010, 11:01 AM
Okay, so I'm a C or B player. I can make most shots (excepting banks and kicks). I can make thin cuts, down the rail shots, straight in, etc. etc. etc.

But, I miss shots. I miss shots that, for me and my skill level, are very makeable. Shots that I've made a hundred times before. I miss shots that I should not miss. And .... It's not always the 8-ball or 9-ball. It could be any random ball on my way to the money ball.

My problem could be mechanical. Something about my mechanics not being consistent.

Or, my problem could be mental. Lack of focus, fear of failure, etc.

If I could always make all of the shots that I know I can make .... I'd be an A player!

Thoughts ???

Just once in my life I wish I would play my usual game.

pooltchr
03-12-2010, 11:27 AM
Just once in my life I wish I would play my usual game.

Whatever you have been doing, that is your usual game. :grin:

Steve

Ratta
03-12-2010, 11:30 AM
Whatever you have been doing, that is your usual game. :grin:

Steve

..terrible true :D

ghost121
03-12-2010, 12:51 PM
Keep it simple:

Get behind the shot and line it up with your eyes/body
Walk into the shot
Keep your bridge hand firm but not tense
Keep your head down on the follow through
Repeat for every shot no matter how easy