PDA

View Full Version : Handicapping 8-ball


hdgis1
03-11-2010, 06:26 PM
I see a lot about handicapping 1P and 9 ball, but not a lot on handicapping 8 ball. What's the best way to do this? Balls? Games? What say you all...

Chris

cigardave
03-11-2010, 06:41 PM
Is this a league?... and if so, are their teams or do individuals compete individually?... or is it a tournament?

hdgis1
03-11-2010, 07:12 PM
Nope no league. I'm talking head to head play. Walk in off the street play someone for some dough kinda thing.

Chris

Is this a league?... and if so, are their teams or do individuals compete individually?... or is it a tournament?

memikey
03-11-2010, 09:54 PM
Keep it simple....unless we're talking complete "can't run 2 balls banger level" any 8 ball match handicapping realistically has to be games or sets on the wire......for walk-in money matches that is.

As you probably know very well, the nature of the game and the potential tactics involved makes "giving balls" of little practical use in 8 ball. Amongst very good players giving "balls down" can of course be an advantage to the giver. League type player rating/handicapping systems probably aren't that well suited to money games either and some of those handicapping systems just encourage play that isn't really 8 ball at all, just a number juggling nudge the balls around exercise.

Unless you are playing sets/matches rock bottom absolute minimum races to 4, it's difficult to get fair games on the wire handicap scales in place.

Why not play even....and let one offer the other odds for his money? It's a money match you're talking about so it boils down to who is willing to give what.....and the two guys won't always reliably know the other's speed anyway.

memikey
03-11-2010, 09:56 PM
Nope no league. I'm talking head to head play. Walk in off the street play someone for some dough kinda thing.

Chris

Don't play anyone who walks in and offers you 5 of your own balls down and the break :smile:

dabarbr
03-11-2010, 10:22 PM
Actually giving balls in eight ball is a good equalizer. Giving up the last ball before the eight or the last two before the eight and so on, can make it a very challenging game for the better player.

Even more so if the balls are optional. Meaning that if they are getting the last ball before the eight and they have the option of shooting the last ball or going directly to the eight ball. And also more challenging is if they miss the eight ball and they still have the same option on their next turn.

PaulieB
03-11-2010, 11:40 PM
Hehe, I love that move in 8 ball...

Tell your mark, err ... opponent ... that you will give them 5 balls in a game of 8 ball, but they come off the table after the break and you get to choose them. :)

All it does is clear the table to make your runout easier ... but at first it seems like such a good deal to the sucker.

hdgis1
03-12-2010, 05:53 AM
Sound advice. Thanks.

Chris

Keep it simple....unless we're talking complete "can't run 2 balls banger level" any 8 ball match handicapping realistically has to be games or sets on the wire......for walk-in money matches that is.

As you probably know very well, the nature of the game and the potential tactics involved makes "giving balls" of little practical use in 8 ball. Amongst very good players giving "balls down" can of course be an advantage to the giver. League type player rating/handicapping systems probably aren't that well suited to money games either and some of those handicapping systems just encourage play that isn't really 8 ball at all, just a number juggling nudge the balls around exercise.

Unless you are playing sets/matches rock bottom absolute minimum races to 4, it's difficult to get fair games on the wire handicap scales in place.

Why not play even....and let one offer the other odds for his money? It's a money match you're talking about so it boils down to who is willing to give what.....and the two guys won't always reliably know the other's speed anyway.

Tominator
03-12-2010, 02:23 PM
Actually giving balls in eight ball is a good equalizer. Giving up the last ball before the eight or the last two before the eight and so on, can make it a very challenging game for the better player.

Even more so if the balls are optional. Meaning that if they are getting the last ball before the eight and they have the option of shooting the last ball or going directly to the eight ball. And also more challenging is if they miss the eight ball and they still have the same option on their next turn.

Look at what dabarbr is saying above - it's different from what else is being said here. dabarbr is saying you don't actually remove the balls from the table.

This seems to make sense to me, I wonder why you don't see this much.

Vahmurka
03-12-2010, 06:49 PM
balls handicap in 8-Ball can be very strong if they are not removed. Imagine you have a ball (or two) that block the pocket for your opponent or interfere in play in any other fashion, and at the same time you don't need to pocket these balls and can proceed to make the 8? That's very powerful. Giving even a single ball under these conditions is pretty severe, giving 2 must be for different levels of play. Giving 3 makes sence only if you play with your girlfriend ;)

Grilled Cheese
03-12-2010, 07:20 PM
8-ball is one of the most difficult games to handicap. Particularly when there is a large difference in skill level. If players are close in speed, games on the wire works ok. When they are worlds apart, there really isn't any way to handicap it. You can try giving balls up (they stay on table). That somewhat changes the game as it is unnatural to the game to abandon balls, particularly when they are left as clusters or blocking pockets. Sure, the better player will have to deal with it and it's part of the spot. But when there's a big gap in skill level, even that don't matter. 8-ball is just as much a control game as any other. Only having to make 6 object balls (or even 5) isn't much help when your opponent doesn't give you a shot. Don't forget, the better player will also block pockets and play significantly better defense and know complex moves.

It's the nature of the game. Each player is working with a different set of balls but in the same environment. That's unique to billiard games. 9-ball, One Pocket, 14.1 both players shoot the same balls. When there is a large speed difference in 8-ball, the better player is like a giant bully and the weaker player can't get any air to breathe.

You can create spots in other games that could match up an average player with a pro. It's silly, but possible. It's not doable in 8-ball. The IPT was a good example of this. While not handicapped, there were some very weak "pros" there who got hammered 8-0 by medium level real pros. These weak pros are far better than most amateur players.

You can bridge that gap in 9-ball with spots, not in 8-ball.

smoooothstroke
03-12-2010, 09:27 PM
Games or odds(money).

My favorite spot is when the better player gets to remove 1 or more of his opponents balls witch actually favors the stronger player and makes it easier to control the outcome of the game.

A good one is to award the lower skilled player BIH anytime he/she comes to the table.Last pocket or bank the 8 or bank a ball are other ways to handicap 8 ball.