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SUPERSTAR
03-11-2010, 08:13 PM
Did i call it or WHAT!
AZ headline

SHIP IT!

Thank you Jerry Forsyth, thank you

The San Diego Classic began as a classic dogfight in the players meeting. Before it was over new board members John Rousseau and Tamre Rogers were asked to leave the room so that the players could feel free to talk about their leadership and the progress or lack thereof of the WPBA that is struggling to get out of their current situation of dwindling sponsorship and disappearing tour stops.

The players meeting had many highlights. When Rousseau indicated that he felt the WPBA had been mistreated by Brunswick, Ewa Laurance objected, and was immediately backed up by Vivian Villarreal, reminding the room of the many years and the millions of dollars in sponsorship money supplied by Brunswick. This developed into an argument that had even Rousseau’s staunchest supporters requesting that an apology be offered to Laurance and to Brunswick. None was forthcoming.

At one point, the criticism of Rousseau became intense and Jeanette Lee spoke up and said she would speak for Rousseau and that “we have been very busy preparing new player contracts”. This was met with questions from several players about why a player who is not on the board would be involved with board matters. It was also announced that Jeanette is pregnant and will be leaving the tour to await the birth after the US Open. As for the new contracts, we have been told that they are now for a two-year term.

Kim White and several other players requested to see minutes from meetings thus far in 2010, and also inquired about who is the secretary, treasurer, etc. and was told the only position that had been filled at this time, was the President's position. There were also several concerns regarding other By-Laws being ignored and the fact that an unprecedented four board members have resigned.

The comment was made that Anne Craig had resigned in a dispute over her pay. But when Craig was brought into the room she said that the reason she left had nothing to do with money, rather she felt that the wide gap in business philosophies with the new members of the board was too great and she felt it better if she simply stepped down.

AZBilliards has been on the phone with many sources, all of whom are afraid to go on the record due to insinuations they say have been made by their leadership about how they would not tolerate negative public comments about Mr. Rousseau's handling of WPBA business. There is a cloak of silence now that has been draped around the organization and no critical comments may emerge without being seen as rebellious, no matter how truthful the comments.

Another meeting has been called for Saturday morning. Some players are pushing for a vote there to determine whether or not Rousseau remains as President. Several have told us that he would be better served as a Marketing Director, as that is his forte, and to have someone else as the Presidential front man, someone who carries less of an edge in their communication skils.

There have however, been some promising assurances made. According to Mr. Rousseau, Goldman-Sachs is said to have four million dollars ready to invest in the WPBA. But no timeline for said investment has been forthcoming. And there are assurances that more tour stops are under plan but no specifics have been mentioned. At this point, the seven-member Board of Directors is down to four persons due to the aforementioned resignations and these positions need to be filled. Whoever comes on the board now needs to come with solutions. Among other pressing issues, how does the WPBA fill the television time they need to fill with their current schedule? Not only in the US, but abroad as well? And how did we go from six events in 2009 to only two in 2010? Are there more events being prepared? With Board members unable to communicate to the media unscreened it is difficult to find the answers to any of these questions.

BilliardPhotos
03-11-2010, 08:29 PM
OMG! Wow...

jay helfert
03-11-2010, 08:32 PM
No you didn't Superstar. It's worse than you thought it was!

I feel bad for the pioneers of the WPBA. Women like Ewa Mataya Laurence, Vicki Paski, Shari Stauch and Belinda Campos who worked so hard to create a women's pro tour. Now they see it self destructing in front of their eyes.

cigardave
03-11-2010, 08:35 PM
On the precipice of anarchy. :(

Johnnyt
03-11-2010, 09:27 PM
Why was JL involved with player contracts? Something going on there. Maybe she is taking over the tour. Johnnyt

Mark Griffin
03-11-2010, 09:44 PM
I read these threads and shake my head. The WPBA has been on the edge of failure/collapse for several years. The signs of serious problems have been present for everyone to see.

I think there are too many people wanting Rouseau to fail - if they were real fans of the sport, they would offer to help him succeed.

Rousseau just got elected a few months ago. He inherited a mess, a basically dysfunctional tour with almost no plans. Several of the major sponsors had either financially bailed or were talking about it.

The existing board members, although full of good intentions, were just not able to muster the leadership traits that were needed to lead this entity into the future. The tour had gotten weaker and weaker.

It was a case of who is driving this bus????

As many of you know, I also had thrown my hat into the election on the WPBA board. I knew it would be a HUGE challenge to make this tour work in the future. I knew some of the WPBA problems and that is why I wanted to help try solve some of their issues.

I did not know that one of the major sponsors (APA) would basically blackmail the membership into eliminating me from the process of being a board member.
To place all of this blame on a new president is indicative of the problems that plague the WPBA. In order to survive in thes current economic climate, new proposals and mind sets are needed. The same old formulas do not work.

I think the billiard community that is fast to point the blame at Rousseau is being very naive and burying their head in the sand.

These problems did not just appear. They have been brewing for several years. I think it would be prudent to look at past management of the WPBA. That is a much more accurate target for the finger pointing.

Mark Griffin

SpiderWebComm
03-11-2010, 09:59 PM
There have however, been some promising assurances made. According to Mr. Rousseau, Goldman-Sachs is said to have four million dollars ready to invest in the WPBA. But no timeline for said investment has been forthcoming. [/B][/COLOR]

This is, without a doubt, the STUPIDEST thing Mr. Rousseau could have done. Publicly mentioning an investment before it happens usually ends with the investment never occurring. Putting Goldman-Sachs's business out there before a done deal is like publicly saying you had sex with a girl before you even kissed her. The girl is usually shocked and then offended...and ultimately tells you to find someone else to date.

Rousseau... if you're reading this.... "amateur move" in letting the room pressure you into publicly mentioning something like that.

Dave

jrackman
03-11-2010, 10:05 PM
Good for Eva & Vivian standing up for Brunswick. Why would anybody in their right minds attack a company that has promoted professional pool for well over 100 years. No loyalty in todays world as I see it...JMO.

sunnyday
03-11-2010, 10:40 PM
Good for Eva & Vivian standing up for Brunswick. Why would anybody in their right minds attack a company that has promoted professional pool for well over 100 years. No loyalty in todays world as I see it...JMO.

With all due respect with their previous sponsorship to WPBA, this year, Brunswick abandoned and left them high and dry. And if that's not enough, only within a month approaching to tour date, WPBA didn't have table sponsor.

This was a decision that Brunswick could had notified WPBA in advance.

J. Rousseau was not attacking Brunswick in general, but just frustrated with their latest decision. He's main goal is to look after the tour (WPBA).

And, people let's not be so naive and jump on the band wagon as if it was J. Rousseau that disseminated the WPBA Board. They were on the road to self destruction long before he was voted in.

S.

derekdisco
03-11-2010, 10:55 PM
Where do I sing up to have my name thrown in the hat? I have some big ideas.

JB Cases
03-11-2010, 10:57 PM
So sad. I am sure all this is going to be in the women's heads as they play the event.

Just yesterday I read that America has 1000+ billionaires and that China is now in second place with 750ish billionaires.

We toss around numbers like 20billion like it's nothing now and we can't find enough money to put a couple hundred pool players to work with solid events throughout the year.

Well, I will say this again, the money for a professional tour should come from the grassroots players. 25cts a week per player per league night would put hundreds of thousands into funding a tour, paying staff and securing further sponsorship and television deals.

No Money - No Honey.

Ladies, I know you are reading this.

You are the only ones who can do this for you. There will be no white knight riding in to rescue the princess.

Look up the Women's World Cup and see what the women of the USA Women's Soccer team did for themselves to make the World Cup a success in the USA.

I don't know what the APA gives to the women for sponsorship but I'd start by asking them to give up a quarter per player per week. The APA says that they have 250,000 members and they want to take an active role in who can be on the board of tours they sponsor so let them just buy and run the whole damn thing.

$60,000 thousand a week ought to be enough to allow the ladies a secure and professionally run tour.

Or maybe one of those billionaires who likes pool will just step in an buy the whole sport and do it right.

JB Cases
03-11-2010, 11:02 PM
With all due respect with their previous sponsorship to WPBA, this year, Brunswick abandoned and left them high and dry. And if that's not enough, only within a month approaching to tour date, WPBA didn't have table sponsor.

This was a decision that Brunswick could had notified WPBA in advance.

J. Rousseau was not attacking Brunswick in general, but just frustrated with their latest decision. He's main goal is to look after the tour (WPBA).

And, people let's not be so naive and jump on the band wagon as if it was J. Rousseau that disseminated the WPBA Board. They were on the road to self destruction long before he was voted in.

S.

Well,

There are two things you don't do. You don't knock the former sponsor because you might want to and need to cross that bridge again someday.

With sponsors you treat them graciously like an ex who you are still friends with. Because even if you never get back with them you can be sure that other sponsors are watching how you handle it.

And you don't OUT pending deals UNLESS you are SURE that there won't be any leaks.

AzHousePro
03-11-2010, 11:02 PM
I am curious as to when and how Brunswick notified the WPBA that they were abandoning them. My understanding is that just a couple weeks ago, the folks at Brunswick were asking when they would be contacted about setting up tables at Viejas.

Mike

Mark Griffin
03-11-2010, 11:22 PM
JB Cues said: Well, I will say this again, the money for a professional tour should come from the grassroots players. 25cts a week per player per league night would put hundreds of thousands into funding a tour, paying staff and securing further sponsorship and television deals.


I totally agree.

The USAPL is up and running - with several leagues all over the country. 50 cents of every player's dues go to support he pros - either in performance fees or added money to tournaments.

We are just starting but hope to become a major support system for pool. This is a GOOD system. Nationally handicap with over a 70% hill-hill record.

Time will tell. But I firmly believe this is the future of pool. I said it two years ago and am now ready to prove it!

Call with questions (702-719-7665). www.playusapool.com

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI

sunnyday
03-11-2010, 11:54 PM
Well,

There are two things you don't do. You don't knock the former sponsor because you might want to and need to cross that bridge again someday.

With sponsors you treat them graciously like an ex who you are still friends with. Because even if you never get back with them you can be sure that other sponsors are watching how you handle it.

And you don't OUT pending deals UNLESS you are SURE that there won't be any leaks.

As I understand, there was no 'bashing' of Brunswick. The board's loyalty it to the tour. It is a common knowledge that last year, Brunswick did not add any MONEY to the tour. And I would assume this could cause some frustration to the other "paying" sponsors. As most realize the table sponsor gets the most bang out of televised matches and they should pay their fair share.

I think WPBA has shown their gratitude and loyalty to Brunswick - they were listed as a sponsor all last year. Without adding any money.

However, I'm not on the board and none of us are. I hope the board members find the strength to unite and utilize each other's strength instead of bickering. Look beyond their personal gain and try to save the tour!

S.

JB Cases
03-12-2010, 12:54 AM
I am curious as to when and how Brunswick notified the WPBA that they were abandoning them. My understanding is that just a couple weeks ago, the folks at Brunswick were asking when they would be contacted about setting up tables at Viejas.

Mike

Aren't you on the board? I thought we were celebrating your election last year?

LAMas
03-12-2010, 01:26 AM
They are playing on Diamond tables on short notice?

Michael-Hoang
03-12-2010, 01:31 AM
It's sad to see the WPBA gets to this point.

I have always been a fan of the ladies for their dedications to "the WPBA".

I sincerely hope that they will be able to get through these tough times.

PoolJunkie216
03-12-2010, 01:33 AM
Proof that some of the people running the show presently & in the past were clueless about how to do things right. This ship did not fall apart overnight. Seriously, some need to get their head out of their ass.

As far as a non-board member having anything to do with contracts, that is a huge red flag & is yet another sign of the dog & pony show going on at the WPBA.

watchez
03-12-2010, 01:41 AM
The existing board members, although full of good intentions, were just not able to muster the leadership traits that were needed to lead this entity into the future. The tour had gotten weaker and weaker.

It was a case of who is driving this bus????

These problems did not just appear. They have been brewing for several years. I think it would be prudent to look at past management of the WPBA. That is a much more accurate target for the finger pointing.

Mark Griffin

Well Mark, when I brought this possibility up last month - Anne Craig stated that she had nothing to do with sponsorships or arranging of the tour itself. I was confused by her response that the president had nothing to do with this.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2254679&postcount=26

How about Anne fires away directly :)

Yes I resigned last month.

I started working for the WPBA in January of 2008. 2 years ago for those that don't have a calculator handy ;)

One of the things I was NOT responsible for, signing up venues and sponsors, that task went directly to the Board of Directors - I was an office & event administrator.

The things I took care of were (taken directly from my resume):

Office and Event Administrator
• Supervised Professional Tournament Logistics and Administration:
 Event Public Relations; pre, during & post tournament
 Coordinating between Host Site, WPBA Site Logistics, Equipment Installers and WPBA Staff
 Professional Player Liaison between Host Site, Sponsors & Media
 Tracking Prize fund payouts and Player Rankings updates
• Merchandise Purchasing & Tracking
• Public Relations – General
• Bookkeeping
• WPBA Regional Tour Liaison
• Official WPBA Photographer
 Created Limited Edition Action Shot prints, including layout in Adobe Photoshop
 Created 2009 WPBA 8”x10” Exempt Professional Headshots for sale, including layout and insertion of all logo’s in Adobe Photoshop
 Two Action shots featured on the cover of Pool & Billiards Magazine (October 2009 and January 2010 editions)
 Action photos of players used for all WPBA tournament articles published in newspapers, magazines and online
• Sponsor relations
• Responsible for www.wpba.com content updates
• Official WPBA Tour Writer including all daily tournament updates, final Tournament in Review stories and the WPBA Insider – quarterly newsletter
• Clerical and database maintenance for all player and fan memberships
• Customer service for all players, fans, sponsors and media


(Note: website content updates meant that, I'm not a web designer but I did my best to make sure what you read was up to date)

Anyway, I took my work seriously and did the best I could. Thank goodness for Linda Pault, TSi Events, Melissa Herndon, Kristi Carter, Belinda Calhoun, Melanie Wignall, Steve Tipton and Mark Wilson - without whom the WPBA would have come to a grinding halt.

For those going to the RTC, I'll be there that Saturday, the 20th of February with my new Nikon D90 that my wonderful guy is buying for me. Come say hi!

I wish the WPBA all the best for 2010

FrogKissin
03-12-2010, 02:06 AM
Well Mark, when I brought this possibility up last month - Anne Craig stated that she had nothing to do with sponsorships or arranging of the tour itself. I was confused by her response that the president had nothing to do with this.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2254679&postcount=26

I never said that the President had nothing to do with Sponsorships etc... in the original post you link to, someone had stated that I perhaps was responsible for signing venues and sponsors, I was refuting that fact with my response - that I dealt with day to day operations, not contracts. That was all.

The Board of Directors and contracted associates were responsible for contract negotiations during my tenure with the WPBA. There wasn't "one" person but a few.

Hope that clears things up.

Ashley
03-12-2010, 03:03 AM
I'm actually kind of surprised it took this long for all of the dissension to come to light..... There was quite a bit of rumbling even at the Regional Tour Championships when John Rousseau proposed some of his ideas.

As a player and someone who aspires to a top level, it's quite disconcerting when such issues are finally brought to the public knowledge and seem to insinuate a tour basically floundering in the water. I for one, hope whole-heartedly that something can be done to salvage what little of a pro tour we have at the moment. Whether John is the person to do it remains to be seen, but in order to save and re-market themselves, tough and risky decisions may have to be made.

After all, the Einstein saying goes "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Ashley Nandrasy

JCIN
03-12-2010, 03:41 AM
The WPBA as a business entity is in bad shape. Rousseau didn't put them in this spot. He is trying to make things happen which means things have to change. If what went before was successful in today's environment we would be talking about a full schedule instead of two events.

One of two things can happen, IMO, the players and principles will get together and agree that things have to be changed or the tour will fail and go away. Sometimes you need someone to speak the hard truths and lead. If people decide they prefer to proceed in the same manner that led them to the current situation they should not be shocked when the end result is more of the same.

Bottom line is the tour is on life support. I don't know if Rousseau is the guy to save it or help make progress but he is the guy willing to stand up and take the beating while trying. If I was a member I would be of the opinion that he can say or do pretty much what he wants if the results are there. If he does not produce he won't be around long anyway and frankly I don't think things could get much worse so why not let the guy try ?

If the players decide on Saturday that they want to go another way I hope they have a real plan for the future instead of taking out their frustrations born of past leadership decisions on the current President.

I know one thing for certain. It is easy to snipe and sling arrows at someone trying to lead. It is much harder to honestly analyze a situation and learn from past mistakes in order to move forward in a positive direction. The WPBA has much to be proud of. Hopefully that pride is tempered with a strong grip on the current reality.

Honestly a lot of the things I am hearing about the current situation reminds me of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Focus and cooperation is what's needed instead of worrying that someone may have said something in a manner that did not give the listener a warm feeling.

I spoke with John tonight for awhile and I believe he truly wants the WPBA to succeed and is willing to work hard toward that goal. I also believe he will pack it in and not be a punching bag if the majority want to concentrate on things other than progress.

I guess for me all the drama comes down to this. If the players do not want to deal with John all they have to do is get together and say the word. Then they have to go out and save their own tour.

There is an old saying that a giraffe is a horse designed by committee. I can't help but think of that when I see and experience some of things I have witnessed dealing with the WPBA. All good people without a doubt but it takes more than that to survive in today's environment. I hope they get it done and will help however I can.

JCIN
03-12-2010, 03:52 AM
This is, without a doubt, the STUPIDEST thing Mr. Rousseau could have done. Publicly mentioning an investment before it happens usually ends with the investment never occurring. Putting Goldman-Sachs's business out there before a done deal is like publicly saying you had sex with a girl before you even kissed her. The girl is usually shocked and then offended...and ultimately tells you to find someone else to date.

Rousseau... if you're reading this.... "amateur move" in letting the room pressure you into publicly mentioning something like that.

Dave
The guy didnt put out a press release. He disclosed a possible future business deal with partners. That is what each WPBA player in that meeting is basically.

If you can not discuss business with your partners I think you have some very serious problems.

BrooklynJay
03-12-2010, 05:35 AM
while i do agree that there were serious issues before john took office there a few basic things that the tour needs - one being tour stops. to only have one stop confirmed at this point, and with the season already started, is a little insane.

Johnnyt
03-12-2010, 05:43 AM
I never could figure out why the WPBA needs seven board members and a president. Johnnyt

derekdisco
03-12-2010, 05:46 AM
I never could figure out why the WPBA needs seven board members and a president. Johnnyt

If I toss my name into the hat, you want to be my VP?

real bartram
03-12-2010, 05:50 AM
If I toss my name into the hat, you want to be my VP?

disco that pic wow those 4 guys damn.
rough crew.

derekdisco
03-12-2010, 05:52 AM
disco that pic wow those 4 guys damn.
Rough crew.

this is grownup talk, is this all you do is follow me around and troll me all day?

Johnnyt
03-12-2010, 05:57 AM
If I toss my name into the hat, you want to be my VP?

No thank you. I think they already missed the boat not letting Mark Griffin on the board, or better yet put in as president. Johnnyt

derekdisco
03-12-2010, 06:04 AM
No thank you. I think they already missed the boat not letting Mark Griffin on the board, or better yet put in as president. Johnnyt

Johnny, you become my vp and ill put a bartable in your office.

Johnnyt
03-12-2010, 06:11 AM
Johnny, you become my vp and ill put a bartable in your office.

Very tempting, but no. Johnnyt

peteypooldude
03-12-2010, 06:40 AM
Maybe the men could learn from this.Not enough mens pool on tv

watchez
03-12-2010, 06:47 AM
I never said that the President had nothing to do with Sponsorships etc... in the original post you link to, someone had stated that I perhaps was responsible for signing venues and sponsors, I was refuting that fact with my response - that I dealt with day to day operations, not contracts. That was all.

The Board of Directors and contracted associates were responsible for contract negotiations during my tenure with the WPBA. There wasn't "one" person but a few.

Hope that clears things up.

One of the things I was NOT responsible for, signing up venues and sponsors, that task went directly to the Board of Directors - I was an office & event administrator.

Ummmm - I think you need to read your own words again. You even put the word NOT in bold capital letters.

What am I not understanding?

Eric.
03-12-2010, 07:49 AM
After all, the Einstein saying goes "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Ashley Nandrasy

Unless, of course, you are playing with a Magic 8 Ball.


Eric >the signs point to yes

TimKrazyMon
03-12-2010, 08:20 AM
I kinda figured things were bad, but I had no idea that the tour had essentially reached critical mass. Here's hoping that John or someone can right the ship and bring the WPBA back to life.


WPBA is officially on life support.:eek::yikes::shakehead::shocked2:


:help::help::help:

The Saw
03-12-2010, 08:40 AM
If I toss my name into the hat, you want to be my VP?

Watch out Johnny.... I wouldn't get too close to anything he tosses in the hat.... LOL

pooltchr
03-12-2010, 09:02 AM
It's very sad to see a tour that I have followed for years reach this point. And while I'm sure the economy has been a huge factor, my biggest complaint with the WPBA over the years has been a lack of promotion.

The last two times the tour had stops here, there was virtually no advanced publicity outside of the WPBA website and the forums like this. As a result, there was a very limited number of people who even knew the tour was here. The local APA provided players to perform shot clock services and other support functions, so there were a few league players who knew about it, and made some time to come out. But a metro area of over a million people should be able to provide more than a hundred or so people who want to fill the stands.

Empty stands do not attract sponsorship.

Steve

vagabond
03-12-2010, 09:03 AM
Did i call it or WHAT!
AZ headline

SHIP IT!

Thank you Jerry Forsyth, thank you

The San Diego Classic began as a classic dogfight in the players meeting. With Board members unable to communicate to the media unscreened it is difficult to find the answers to any of these questions.



Every secret society( USSR,CHINA,N.KOREA,IRAN, G.W.Bush & Chainey) will crumble one day! WPBA became a secret society and it had the same fate like the other scret societies. Need transparency inorder to reduce the paranoia of the paranoids, otherwise the paranoics will revolt and cause major damage.

PS: I don`t have interest in politics but politics is the reality of life.I am here in san diego to watch good pool played by the beautiful ladies.:cool:

vagabond
03-12-2010, 09:10 AM
I think it would be prudent to look at past management of the WPBA.

Mark Griffin

you owe a dollar to daddy Bush. the word 'Prudent' is the trade mark of daddy Bush.:D:cool::D

pooltchr
03-12-2010, 09:59 AM
I just went to the WPBA website to check the bracket...the names are filled in, but there are no results posted.
Communication, communication, communication!

Steve

cajunfats
03-12-2010, 10:20 AM
The existing board members, although full of good intentions, were just not able to muster the leadership traits that were needed to lead this entity into the future. The tour had gotten weaker and weaker.

It was a case of who is driving this bus????


These problems did not just appear. They have been brewing for several years. I think it would be prudent to look at past management of the WPBA. That is a much more accurate target for the finger pointing.

Mark Griffin Correct again,Mark. The WPBA has been in existence for over two decades. Each succeeding leadership group has the responsibility to develop the Association. Look to the past,and you see what decisions were made and by whom,and the results. As I have stated in other posts concerning matters of Men's Pro Pool,the WPA,Olympic's,etc.,it is always a matter of Money and Power. It will require an individual with the ability to restore cohesiveness within the organization,diplomacy in dealing with the business,and personality to communicate with player and public alike,for the betterment of the Association and the Sport.

cajunfats
03-12-2010, 10:23 AM
I just went to the WPBA website to check the bracket...the names are filled in, but there are no results posted.
Communication, communication, communication!

SteveYes Steve, I agree. I was up watching the live stream last night,and they kept saying the brackets are being worked on.

Johnnyt
03-12-2010, 10:27 AM
Correct again,Mark. The WPBA has been in existence for over two decades. Each succeeding leadership group has the responsibility to develop the Association. Look to the past,and you see what decisions were made and by whom,and the results. As I have stated in other posts concerning matters of Men's Pro Pool,the WPA,Olympic's,etc.,it is always a matter of Money and Power. It will require an individual with the ability to restore cohesiveness within the organization,diplomacy in dealing with the business,and personality to communicate with player and public alike,for the betterment of the Association and the Sport.

How long ago did the APA hook-up with the WPBA? Johnnyt

cajunfats
03-12-2010, 10:38 AM
How long ago did the APA hook-up with the WPBA? Johnnyt
Johnnyt,I believe the APA became a sponsor of the WPBA in 1999/2000,so about 10 years.

Koop
03-12-2010, 11:15 AM
Johnnyt,I believe the APA became a sponsor of the WPBA in 1999/2000,so about 10 years.

Too bad the APA didn't do what Mark and John were saying and putting tiny amounts per player, per week into a kitty.
That would be a BIG kitty today.

jrackman
03-12-2010, 11:22 AM
Johnny, you become my vp and ill put a bartable in your office.

roflmao.....good one!

Johnnyt
03-12-2010, 11:26 AM
Johnnyt,I believe the APA became a sponsor of the WPBA in 1999/2000,so about 10 years.

Thank you. Johnnyt

Island Drive
03-12-2010, 03:18 PM
I tried the link on SuperStars orig thread would not link up. Not knowing the truth from both sides, except this situation feels "so familiar" with what the mens pros have been through and I was along for many of those rides, here's my opinion with out the facts, but more from the facts of life standpoint.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My hopes, much like what's going on with our current political system here in the US is that allot of Good will come from the current conflict thats going on at Viejas. There's too much risk keeping the status quo, without change the sport is unable to make the giant leap that's needed. Who would of thought McDonalds would be selling Burritos, when Burgers are what they are all about. Keep it coming Jerry F. and John hang in there.
BiL

Robroy
03-12-2010, 03:35 PM
Did i call it or WHAT!
AZ headline

SHIP IT!

Thank you Jerry Forsyth, thank you

The San Diego Classic began as a classic dogfight in the players meeting. Before it was over new board members John Rousseau and Tamre Rogers were asked to leave the room so that the players could feel free to talk about their leadership and the progress or lack thereof of the WPBA that is struggling to get out of their current situation of dwindling sponsorship and disappearing tour stops.

The players meeting had many highlights. When Rousseau indicated that he felt the WPBA had been mistreated by Brunswick, Ewa Laurance objected, and was immediately backed up by Vivian Villarreal, reminding the room of the many years and the millions of dollars in sponsorship money supplied by Brunswick. This developed into an argument that had even Rousseau’s staunchest supporters requesting that an apology be offered to Laurance and to Brunswick. None was forthcoming.

At one point, the criticism of Rousseau became intense and Jeanette Lee spoke up and said she would speak for Rousseau and that “we have been very busy preparing new player contracts”. This was met with questions from several players about why a player who is not on the board would be involved with board matters. It was also announced that Jeanette is pregnant and will be leaving the tour to await the birth after the US Open. As for the new contracts, we have been told that they are now for a two-year term.

Kim White and several other players requested to see minutes from meetings thus far in 2010, and also inquired about who is the secretary, treasurer, etc. and was told the only position that had been filled at this time, was the President's position. There were also several concerns regarding other By-Laws being ignored and the fact that an unprecedented four board members have resigned.

The comment was made that Anne Craig had resigned in a dispute over her pay. But when Craig was brought into the room she said that the reason she left had nothing to do with money, rather she felt that the wide gap in business philosophies with the new members of the board was too great and she felt it better if she simply stepped down.

AZBilliards has been on the phone with many sources, all of whom are afraid to go on the record due to insinuations they say have been made by their leadership about how they would not tolerate negative public comments about Mr. Rousseau's handling of WPBA business. There is a cloak of silence now that has been draped around the organization and no critical comments may emerge without being seen as rebellious, no matter how truthful the comments.

Another meeting has been called for Saturday morning. Some players are pushing for a vote there to determine whether or not Rousseau remains as President. Several have told us that he would be better served as a Marketing Director, as that is his forte, and to have someone else as the Presidential front man, someone who carries less of an edge in their communication skils.

There have however, been some promising assurances made. According to Mr. Rousseau, Goldman-Sachs is said to have four million dollars ready to invest in the WPBA. But no timeline for said investment has been forthcoming. And there are assurances that more tour stops are under plan but no specifics have been mentioned. At this point, the seven-member Board of Directors is down to four persons due to the aforementioned resignations and these positions need to be filled. Whoever comes on the board now needs to come with solutions. Among other pressing issues, how does the WPBA fill the television time they need to fill with their current schedule? Not only in the US, but abroad as well? And how did we go from six events in 2009 to only two in 2010? Are there more events being prepared? With Board members unable to communicate to the media unscreened it is difficult to find the answers to any of these questions.

I don't know anything....but this sounds horrible, it brings back flashes of Don Mackey (I was on the board during that era) I remember hearing one of the men "Robin do you want to be on TV now or years from now" I remember saying I don't care if I'm ever on TV we are to do what is required of us we represent our members, it was a no brainer-by-laws help us stay within the boundaries and not let someone bull dog their ideas. I hope this isn't the case and my 2 cents to John Rousseau "be above reproach"...have a board and have a vote! I believe the WPBA always survived because we worked within the guidelines of the by-laws.
What I do know, Brunswick has always been there for the WPBA and for any WPBA member to suggest otherwise hasn't been around very long.

Island Drive
03-12-2010, 03:45 PM
With Mataya speaking out, conflict of interest speaks loudly to me.

SUPERSTAR
03-12-2010, 03:46 PM
I tried the link on SuperStars orig thread would not link up. Not knowing the truth from both sides, except this situation feels "so familiar" with what the mens pros have been through and I was along for many of those rides, here's my opinion with out the facts, but more from the facts of life standpoint.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My hopes, much like what's going on with our current political system here in the US is that allot of Good will come from the current conflict thats going on at Viejas. There's too much risk keeping the status quo, without change the sport is unable to make the giant leap that's needed. Who would of thought McDonalds would be selling Burritos, when Burgers are what they are all about. Keep it coming Jerry F. and John hang in there.
BiL

The link was to that PCN blog, and whoever that was, just pulled the plug on it, citing veiled threats.

Robroy
03-12-2010, 03:53 PM
With Mataya speaking out, conflict of interest speaks loudly to me.

I know Ewa, she stood up because it was the right thing for her to do.
If it was a different sponsor that was a loyal as Brunswick has been, she would have stood up for them too.

Mark Griffin
03-12-2010, 04:03 PM
I believe there are MANY conflict of interests in the WPBA. (As there is in almost all things billiards).

I also believe Brunswick was a good sponsor for many years (only to the WPBA).

I also believe that Brunswick had the first opportunity PLUS a second chance to be the table sponsor of this years WPBA tour. And they did not want it enough to open their checkbook. They had a 'free ride' last year and were not required to put in added money.

To suggest that Rousseau or others would change table sponsors without talking to Brunswick is ridiculous. Contracts need to be renewed and the situations change all the time.

I understand Ewa's loyalties BUT her priorities MUST be with what is best for the WPBA. (Not to mention she is also contracted (with Mitch) to do the commentary on the WPBA matches - a choice that many think should be changed).

None of us know the facts - but you can bet that Rousseau is NOT getting the support a President should get. The previous management of the WPBA operated without ANY backup plans or safeguards in place. The BOD does not have ability to post on their own website (so I have heard).

So there is much to meet the eye - give it some time to work out. Obviously the previous business plan was badly flawed - so what ya got to lose???

Mark Griffin

AzHousePro
03-12-2010, 04:09 PM
Then how did they post the link to the stream? And how did they post the brackets from this event and the note that a message from the president would be forthcoming?

I do know for a fact that the hosting company changed the login information for the site. Considering that those changes did away with the old login info, I would assume that those changes were made at the current BOD's request. Unless the hosting company just did it for the heck of it.

Mike

The BOD does not have ability to post on their own website (so I have heard).

Island Drive
03-12-2010, 04:13 PM
Mark, appreciate the nitty gritty of the realities of business from the mind of a business man and not the mind of a pool player. I've never in my life seen a successful business not make dramatic changes to stay alive. No successful business sticks to its original business plan.

Fast Lenny
03-12-2010, 04:26 PM
I probably should not use the little energy I have at the moment to reply to the thread but since I know John personally I will speak a bit on it. I think John will pull this off if given the chance, he is a smart guy, cares about the ladies and the tour. I think the players running the tour is a bad idea and they are not business people. John is a successful business guy and we all know Jeanette is close to him, Jeanette is successful too.

I think the WPBA needs a Jeanette Lee for marketing purposes plus she is a smart lady who brings much to the table. The tour is where it is because of the same old same old. It is time for change, drastic changes to take a chance to bring new life into the tour and new money.

We know Ewa and Brunswick are tight and she is loyal to them but if Diamond is willing to do more for the tour then its business and a smart move by John to get them involved. Diamond is doing so much for pool right now and as for Brunswick I do not see them doing as much. Would like to see Brunswick do a $50,000 added tournament once a year or something to that affect. The TV exposure Brunswick gets for letting the ladies use the tables is pennies on the dollar IMO, your product is front and center on ESPN, you should have to pay a little bit for that at least or give some tables for the WPBA to sell and raffle off.

I think what happens in these meetings have not been made public very much but I am sure it is all not peachy in the board room. When it comes to business, changes and conflicts of interest it can become heated. I think John is getting a ton of heat for his changes, give the guy a chance, he has only been President for about 2 months or so. He has to do things different, has to take some risk too and so do the board members along with the players.

I think we are all making a big deal out of nothing and things are getting blow out of proportion. I hope John does not give up because if he does the WPBA might not be around much longer, with his help it might be better then ever. Good luck John and do not quit, you can fade the heat and make them all eat crow. :thumbup:

pooltchr
03-12-2010, 04:52 PM
Mark made some good points.

The number of tour stops has been falling off year over year, to the point where we are now. Not much of a tour these days.
In fact, it could be argued that they are on the verge of shutting down. That being the case, it would seem that anything would be better. Something has to change, or the WPBA will end up sitting in the books beside the Camel tour.

What went wrong isn't nearly as important as what will be done to change direction. Before we call for anyone's head, perhaps we should see where things are going.

Steve

Mark Griffin
03-12-2010, 05:10 PM
Mike,

I respect your opinions and insight. However, there are certain women that would rather see Rousseau fail and the WPBA suffer, than to see him succeed. Their feelings were hurt and they are doing about everything they can discreetly do to cause distractions and grief.

Remember when I bought the BCA Pool League? Remember all the tacky bullshit things the detractors did and said? Where are they now? They were not good for pool then and they are not good for pool now. All they did was to divide and industry and cause hard feelings.

The same will happen to some of these women. They are small minded and selfish. They are a team player when THEIR team is winning. I have been told that Rousseau did not have access to the website. There is obviously a problem since he has not posted on the 'message from the president'. The brackets took forever to get up. And the Brunswick logo is still on the site.

That is NOT how you run a website. There have been many complaints about the WPBA site. It was not laid out very well. As you might remember, it went down right before the RTC in LA. a few weeks ago and was finally up and running again. BUT there is a problem that still exists.

You know much more than I do about web managemnet - but it needs to be user friendly for both the public audience AND those that need to be able to update. Anne used to be able to do updates - what changed that would not allow the WPBA board access?

If you want to discuss this more, I don't think the AZ forums is the place.

I just think the press might be aggravated because of the 'rumor' about posting. I have no idea if this is true or not. BUT I do believe there was a similar ban on posting in the past. How often did things happen and there was very little information.

The Ellerby - Chen elbow incident about 2 years ago comes to mind. As does the last election in Lincoln City.

I still think John can make things happen - but if he is so busy putting how fires, how can he build a new foundation? I know - I had to do it and it cost me at LEAST a year or two in our league development.

Mark Griffin



kwpsi a Then how did they post the link to the stream? And how did they post the brackets from this event and the note that a message from the president would be forthcoming?

I do know for a fact that the hosting company changed the login information for the site. Considering that those changes did away with the old login info, I would assume that those changes were made at the current BOD's request. Unless the hosting company just did it for the heck of it.

Mike

jason
03-12-2010, 05:12 PM
Where do I sing up to have my name thrown in the hat? I have some big ideas.

Although I would be for it, Disco, that topless tour just isn't going to make it. :p

AzHousePro
03-12-2010, 06:36 PM
Mark, I am very familiar with the WPBA website and how it is maintained. I was hired to maintain their coverage of the BCA Pro Event years ago and was also lightly involved in making changes to it last year.

If you remember, most of the updates that took place on their site were done with pdf files, which made it difficult for the end user. But Anne had nothing to do with the built in Content Management System that their hosting company has set up for them.

Yes, I completely understand what is involved in maintaining a website and I know the problems that the WPBA has with their website. A big part of maintaining a website is having someone who has the time and knowledge of that website to make the changes. When the person who was in charge of maintaining the site leaves, then you have to find someone who can do that job. If you don't find someone, then it isn't that you don't have the ability to maintain it. It is more that you haven't found someone to do it. It is easy to lay the blame at someone else's feet, but that isn't the case here. No one is blocking the WPBA's access to maintain their site. They simply don't have someone who knows how to do it or has the time to do it.

Mark, you and I have sat down many times and discussed the issues that plague the pool world. We don't always agree, but I do value your opinions. I think what we have here is a case of each of us hearing different sides of the story. And the truth is probably in the middle somewhere. One big difference that I see is that I am hearing what I hear from multiple sources and it sounds like you are hearing from one. If even half of the stories that I have heard from these multiple sources is true, then the tour has a serious problem on their hands.

What I do know is that four people busted their asses last year to make sure the tour ran. They handled all of the things that Peg and Jay used to get paid to do and they did it in their spare time. These four people were not doing this because they wanted things ran their way. They did this out of a heartfelt desire to see the tour succeed as best it could. There was no "I/Me" involved when they did this work. They simply buckled down and did it. Now two of those people are gone and they both cite the same reasons for leaving.

The board has known for quite some time that their existing model was doomed to eventual failure and John has certainly inherited a major mess. I do think that John has the best of intentions in what he is trying to do. I simply question the way he is going about doing it. The WPBA is owned by the players and it is ran by the board of directors. Seven equal votes. There are bylaws in place that govern how the board makes decisions and gets things done. Throwing those bylaws out the window and making your own decisions without discussing it with the all of the board is not the way to get things done. If the board disagrees with the way you want to do things, then you were outvoted and you move on.

As far as intentions go, I told Charlie Williams almost ten years ago that I respected what he was trying to do in forming the UPA. I just disagreed with the way he was going about doing it. I thought the players needed a voice in their game and I still do. I told him that I hoped I was wrong and that if I was, I would be the first one to stand up and congratulate him on the great job he did. You and I have both talked about how that one worked out.

I think John has some very valuable ideas and contacts that he can bring to the table. But the WPBA is not a dictatorship. Everything has to be voted on and handled through the proper channels. All board members are equal and all players are equal. The #1 player has the same voting power as the #48 player and the president has the same voting power as the secretary.

You own the BCA Pool Leagues and I own AzBilliards. Both of those entities succeed or fail based on our decisions. If you decide to put a rule in affect that forces all players to wear short skirts and heels when they play, then they have to do that. If I decide that I am going to fill the site with porn ads, then porn ads it is. But we do not have Boards of Directors to listen to our ideas and ask us what we are smoking. The WPBA does. And they do for a reason. Those are called "checks and balances". If someone doesn't like operating under those "checks and balances", then they have a problem.

I hope that the best possible decision is made tomorrow at the players meeting. I hope the players think the decision through and talk to as many people as possible before they make any decisions. If John is gone, then I hope they have a plan. If he stays, then I hope they all find a way to work together for the betterment of the tour. And either way, I hope they do things the way their bylaws require that they are done.

Mike

Mike,

I respect your opinions and insight. However, there are certain women that would rather see Rousseau fail and the WPBA suffer, than to see him succeed. Their feelings were hurt and they are doing about everything they can discreetly do to cause distractions and grief.

Remember when I bought the BCA Pool League? Remember all the tacky bullshit things the detractors did and said? Where are they now? They were not good for pool then and they are not good for pool now. All they did was to divide and industry and cause hard feelings.

The same will happen to some of these women. They are small minded and selfish. They are a team player when THEIR team is winning. I have been told that Rousseau did not have access to the website. There is obviously a problem since he has not posted on the 'message from the president'. The brackets took forever to get up. And the Brunswick logo is still on the site.

That is NOT how you run a website. There have been many complaints about the WPBA site. It was not laid out very well. As you might remember, it went down right before the RTC in LA. a few weeks ago and was finally up and running again. BUT there is a problem that still exists.

You know much more than I do about web managemnet - but it needs to be user friendly for both the public audience AND those that need to be able to update. Anne used to be able to do updates - what changed that would not allow the WPBA board access?

If you want to discuss this more, I don't think the AZ forums is the place.

I just think the press might be aggravated because of the 'rumor' about posting. I have no idea if this is true or not. BUT I do believe there was a similar ban on posting in the past. How often did things happen and there was very little information.

The Ellerby - Chen elbow incident about 2 years ago comes to mind. As does the last election in Lincoln City.

I still think John can make things happen - but if he is so busy putting how fires, how can he build a new foundation? I know - I had to do it and it cost me at LEAST a year or two in our league development.

Mark Griffin



kwpsi a

POVPOOL
03-12-2010, 11:34 PM
I say, grab a coupla cameras, follow Rousseau and the gang around for the next six months, because it's seems like there are going to be some sharp turns ahead for the whole cast of characters in this drama.

I hope and pray it's all for the best...

Daniel
:thumbup:

Str8PoolMan
03-13-2010, 12:26 AM
It's going to be a bumpy night...

spanky79
03-13-2010, 03:10 AM
all I know is I have been at Viejas for the last 2 days and this is being talked about constantly, and when some people found out this "INSIDE" information was leaked to the forums they were not happy.

The question of does information that is talked about in a private players meeting belong public is up for debate.

POVPOOL
03-13-2010, 03:35 AM
I just think that a doc would be a great idea. The camera will keep people honest and anyone making fools of themselves will not be able to take it back.

JB Cases
03-13-2010, 05:28 AM
all I know is I have been at Viejas for the last 2 days and this is being talked about constantly, and when some people found out this "INSIDE" information was leaked to the forums they were not happy.

The question of does information that is talked about in a private players meeting belong public is up for debate.

Not necessarily but if it is made public then the best course is to ignore it.

Don't confirm or deny and that leaves people guessing.

Works great for Apple.

PoolSharkAllen
07-07-2010, 11:36 AM
It's very sad to see a tour that I have followed for years reach this point. And while I'm sure the economy has been a huge factor, my biggest complaint with the WPBA over the years has been a lack of promotion.

The last two times the tour had stops here, there was virtually no advanced publicity outside of the WPBA website and the forums like this. As a result, there was a very limited number of people who even knew the tour was here. The local APA provided players to perform shot clock services and other support functions, so there were a few league players who knew about it, and made some time to come out. But a metro area of over a million people should be able to provide more than a hundred or so people who want to fill the stands.

Empty stands do not attract sponsorship.

Steve

I'm late to reading this thread but better late then never! :cool:

It seems to me that there is a certain naivete when it comes to promoting pool.

Almost a year ago I opened a thread asking why the WPBA was hosting the 1st Annual Colorado Classic in Ignacio. Ignacio is a small town with a population of about 750 people and is located about 250 miles from Denver.

I had wondered if it didn't make more sense to have the tournament in Denver, which has a population of 2 million people to draw pool-playing fans from. The Colorado Classic was poorly promoted, was located in a remote location, and many fans had to travel 25 miles away to Durango for lodging. As you said, "empty stands do not attract sponsorship."

I think the WPBA could benefit from having new blood on the board of directors, especially those who may have a business-related background. Although the pool players on the board mean well, it does take a certain amount of sophistication to run the WPBA as a business and not just as a sport.

JCIN
07-07-2010, 11:47 AM
I'm late to reading this thread but better late then never! :cool:

It seems to me that there is a certain naivete when it comes to promoting pool.

Almost a year ago I opened a thread asking why the WPBA was hosting the 1st Annual Colorado Classic in Ignacio. Ignacio is a small town with a population of about 750 people and is located about 250 miles from Denver.

I had wondered if it didn't make more sense to have the tournament in Denver, which has a population of 2 million people to draw pool-playing fans from. The Colorado Classic was poorly promoted, was located in a remote location, and many fans had to travel 25 miles away to Durango for lodging. As you said, "empty stands do not attract sponsorship."

I think the WPBA could benefit from having new blood on the board of directors, especially those who may have a business-related background. Although the pool players on the board mean well, it does take a certain amount of sophistication to run the WPBA as a business and not just as a sport.

If you look into why WPBA events are held in out of the way places it is usually because there is an Indian casino there who posts the hefty site fee that is required to have a WPBA event.

Everyone would love for them to hold events in L.A., New York, Chicago, Vegas, or any other large easily accessible area. Problem is no one in those area's will put up the money.

AzHousePro
07-07-2010, 11:48 AM
Casinos use the WPBA tournaments to draw fans in and hopefully spend money in their casinos. The WPBA has to go where the casinos are interested in paying for the event. I am sure that if a casino in Denver were interested in the tour, the tour would be all for going there.

Mike

I'm late to reading this thread but better late then never! :cool:

It seems to me that there is a certain naivete when it comes to promoting pool.

Almost a year ago I opened a thread asking why the WPBA was hosting the 1st Annual Colorado Classic in Ignacio. Ignacio is a small town with a population of about 750 people and is located about 250 miles from Denver.

I had wondered if it didn't make more sense to have the tournament in Denver, which has a population of 2 million people to draw pool-playing fans from. The Colorado Classic was poorly promoted, was located in a remote location, and many fans had to travel 25 miles away to Durango for lodging. As you said, "empty stands do not attract sponsorship."

I think the WPBA could benefit from having new blood on the board of directors, especially those who may have a business-related background. Although the pool players on the board mean well, it does take a certain amount of sophistication to run the WPBA as a business and not just as a sport.

PoolSharkAllen
07-07-2010, 11:55 AM
If you look into why WPBA events are held in out of the way places it is usually because there is an Indian casino there who posts the hefty site fee that is required to have a WPBA event.

Everyone would love for them to hold events in L.A., New York, Chicago, Vegas, or any other large easily accessible area. Problem is no one in those area's will put up the money.

How much are the hefty site fees required to host a WPBA event? The hefty site fees may be a big part of the problem. It's time for the WPBA to reduce their site fees and have the events in a major metropolis.

It doesn't make much sense for fans to travel to remote locations just so the WPBA can get a hefty site fee. It's worth repeating again: "Empty stands do not attract sponsorship."

AzHousePro
07-07-2010, 12:06 PM
I don't want to get too specific about the site fees, but remember that those site fees pretty much pay for the television production.

Without those fees, they lose TV.

Mike

PoolSharkAllen
07-07-2010, 12:26 PM
..........

Maniac
07-07-2010, 12:54 PM
In reading over my Ignacio thread from a year ago, Anne mentioned that "Our production costs for 25 hours of original programming this year run well over $400,000."

That means that the site fees, entrance fees and whatever else, needs to be at least $400,000 just to break even.

With a business model like this, it's no wonder that the WPBA is struggling. It might be time to reevaluate the business model.


Yep, just book a Convention Center or large Ballroom/Party room in a large market area. Forget about ESPN and their crappy coverage of a truly great tour and get the damn thing live-streamed. Get the local poolhalls involved for advertisement and get them to kick-in some $$$ for payouts. Go to the nearby eating establishments and ask for smaller donations for a shot at having their name on a banner. I do not know how the WPBA handles entry fees, but I'm sure some "adjustments" could be made to that area also. Bottom line though has got to be that the ladies should NEVER expect to make a living at playing in WPBA events, and that whatever $$$ they make for doing so should just be looked at as an opportunity to make some spare money doing something they love. Hell, it's hard enough for a man to make a living at pool (not being disparaging to the women, just that men's pool draws more overall interest as far as professional pool goes).

In reality there are no quick fixes, and as far as I can see, if one or more large sponsors do not come up with a LOT of money soon, the WPBA, with all its internal problems, may self-destruct.

Maniac

PoolSharkAllen
07-07-2010, 01:31 PM
Yep, just book a Convention Center or large Ballroom/Party room in a large market area. Forget about ESPN and their crappy coverage of a truly great tour and get the damn thing live-streamed. Get the local poolhalls involved for advertisement and get them to kick-in some $$$ for payouts. Go to the nearby eating establishments and ask for smaller donations for a shot at having their name on a banner. I do not know how the WPBA handles entry fees, but I'm sure some "adjustments" could be made to that area also. Bottom line though has got to be that the ladies should NEVER expect to make a living at playing in WPBA events, and that whatever $$$ they make for doing so should just be looked at as an opportunity to make some spare money doing something they love. Hell, it's hard enough for a man to make a living at pool (not being disparaging to the women, just that men's pool draws more overall interest as far as professional pool goes).

In reality there are no quick fixes, and as far as I can see, if one or more large sponsors do not come up with a LOT of money soon, the WPBA, with all its internal problems, may self-destruct.

Maniac

Your comments are very similar to what I was thinking.

As part of overhauling the business model, the WPBA should use ESPN to televise one or two premier events a year in a major city. For the other events, people like JCIN or Bigtruck could be hired to stream in High Definition for much less than what it would cost to hire ESPN to do it.

Nostroke
07-07-2010, 01:45 PM
Casinos use the WPBA tournaments to draw fans in and hopefully spend money in their casinos. The WPBA has to go where the casinos are interested in paying for the event. I am sure that if a casino in Denver were interested in the tour, the tour would be all for going there.

Mike


They also get their name mentioned on TV over and over sometimes for years given ESPN Classic. That is pretty good advertising and more valuable than what they pay imho.

sarahrousey
07-07-2010, 02:08 PM
One thing to keep in mind also when you want us to come to a metropolis to play in an event....the cost of getting there and staying there. We had an event in NYC, I only played in it once. The hotel room was about the size of my bathroom and upwards of $200 a night....multiply that by five nights and the fact that we get a discounted rate on rooms and we are supposed to stay at the host hotel. Not to mention the $30-$60 to park the car per day, the higher cost of food, etc. Most of the girls pay their own expenses on top of a $500 entry fee.

The Indian casinos have been good to us and in the places that had multiple year contracts, the attendance grew. Viejas is one of them that has a very loyal crowd over the years. I agree that the places are out of the way, but like someone else mentioned, they put up a great deal of money.

There is also an argument to whether people in a big city would want to come watch more than people in the middle of nowhere? There are more things to do in a big city and going to a pool tournament might be at the bottom of the list. People that come to the out of the way places are there to watch pool and are usually die hard fans that don't miss a session.

I don't claim to know the answers to all of the problems. But I do know that it would be a bad situation to hold a tournament where the players couldn't even afford to go to the tournament.

There is an event in a big city this year....Atlanta. It also has an amateur event along with it. That will help with spectators as it has in other venues. I'm curious to see how many people from Atlanta that are not participating in the amateur event come to watch.

Sarah

watchez
07-07-2010, 03:06 PM
There is an event in a big city this year....Atlanta. It also has an amateur event along with it. That will help with spectators as it has in other venues. I'm curious to see how many people from Atlanta that are not participating in the amateur event come to watch.

Sarah

That all depends on how many of the women follow the WPBA dress code and how many break it. Of course some shouldn't be allowed to break it. :)

PoolSharkAllen
07-07-2010, 03:11 PM
One thing to keep in mind also when you want us to come to a metropolis to play in an event....the cost of getting there and staying there. We had an event in NYC, I only played in it once. The hotel room was about the size of my bathroom and upwards of $200 a night....multiply that by five nights and the fact that we get a discounted rate on rooms and we are supposed to stay at the host hotel. Not to mention the $30-$60 to park the car per day, the higher cost of food, etc. Most of the girls pay their own expenses on top of a $500 entry fee.

The Indian casinos have been good to us and in the places that had multiple year contracts, the attendance grew. Viejas is one of them that has a very loyal crowd over the years. I agree that the places are out of the way, but like someone else mentioned, they put up a great deal of money.

There is also an argument to whether people in a big city would want to come watch more than people in the middle of nowhere? There are more things to do in a big city and going to a pool tournament might be at the bottom of the list. People that come to the out of the way places are there to watch pool and are usually die hard fans that don't miss a session.

I don't claim to know the answers to all of the problems. But I do know that it would be a bad situation to hold a tournament where the players couldn't even afford to go to the tournament.

There is an event in a big city this year....Atlanta. It also has an amateur event along with it. That will help with spectators as it has in other venues. I'm curious to see how many people from Atlanta that are not participating in the amateur event come to watch.

Sarah

Excellent point: If the WPBA wants more players and fans to attend, then it needs to ensure that the entry fees, room rates, parking and food are more affordable. :rolleyes:

I don't know what all of the answers are either but asking players and fans to travel to remote locations is hardly the solution. That just increases the cost to everyone.

Again, empty stands do not attract sponsors. The WPBA needs to completely reevaluate it's business model.

Johnnyt
07-07-2010, 03:23 PM
I don't want to get too specific about the site fees, but remember that those site fees pretty much pay for the television production.

Without those fees, they lose TV.

Mike

And that would be a good thing IMO. Johnnyt

APA Operator
07-07-2010, 04:24 PM
IMHO, the TV contract is the key to growth. Without it, you get no sponsors, whether the stands are full or empty.

Sponsors make the world go round, but the current set of WPBA sponsors (APA included) do very little for the growth of the tour itself. They provide some money, and in return they get some advertising. Industry sponsors are one thing, and as long as you're just holding a pool tournament that's all you'll get.

The WPBA needs to take a cue (no pun intended) from the PGA or the LPGA. There's nothing special about golf, it's a recreational sport (just like pool) that doesn't have professional teams (just like pool). The crowd has to be quiet during each shot (just like pool). More people in this country (and probably most others) play pool than play golf, so why are the professional golf tours so successful? Title sponsors, that's why.

Who sponsors golf? Golf does have its industry sponsors, but the really big sponsorship dollars come from title sponsorship of each tournament, and those sponsors are NOT industry sponsors. They are auto manufacturers, large financial institutions, and huge insurance companies, to name a few. They are companies that have extremely large advertising budgets, and companies for which A POSITIVE PUBLIC IMAGE IS VERY IMPORTANT. They have a vested interest in making THEIR event a success, so they provide staff to help pull it off. They actively promote THEIR event. Through all of this, they are contributing to the sport, rather than simply contributing advertising dollars to a tour.

So how do the PGA and LPGA get title sponsors (huge corporations) for their tour stops? By teaming with charities, that's how, and by having the people employed within those charities contact and deal with potential sponsors.

I firmly believe that NO professional billiards tour, men, women, or otherwise, can truly flourish without huge sponsorship dollars coming from outside the industry. You can't get the dollars without charities and TV contracts. The WPBA has the TV contract - they should be teaming with charities to set up their tour stops and attract title sponsors. It's not something that just magically happens - it's full-time work for someone. It will take dedication from the players and other tour insiders, but maybe they could get a couple of tour stops this year or next, and build upon that to attract more sponsors in future years. Who knows? Eventually, being a professional pool player might be something these ladies could do AS A FULL-TIME PROFESSION. Wouldn't that be nice?

"T"
07-07-2010, 04:51 PM
Taking into consideration the state of the economy, none of the things discussed in this thread should be that much of a surprise. These are really tough times. Discussing and agreeing/disagreeing on the issues is never pretty, but it's part of the process. There's more pressure on everyone there right now then ever and hopefully they won't dog it. :D

LAlouie
07-07-2010, 05:02 PM
According to Mr. Rousseau, Goldman-Sachs is said to have four million dollars ready to invest in the WPBA.

HUH!!!

Well if that's the case, I'm pulling my investments from Goldman Sachs forthwith.

SUPERSTAR
07-07-2010, 05:26 PM
Thread is 3 months old people.

Much of the stuff about J.R. is moot because he is no longer with the WPBA.