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View Full Version : Wanted: Solid advice


Mike in MN
03-11-2010, 11:32 PM
I was recently left this shot on the 8 in a league game ...

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HRlU1JNUM4OYsg1PRCq@

As you can see the bank was taken out of the equation, and there wasn't enough room to try to cut it into the near corner pocket, so I was looking for a decent safety option to get me back to the table.

After much debate I decided to nip the 8 and try to leave the cue ball between the rail and the 10. I was hoping it would leave my opponent with a very difficult shot on the 10 while pushing in the 8 in front of the pocket for me. Unfortunately, I hit the 8 too thin and sold out and my opponent ended up winning the rack.

This shot has been bothering me for about three weeks now, so I want to open it up to the masses to see what I could have done differently. Dazzle me, people.

danquixote
03-11-2010, 11:44 PM
I was recently left this shot on the 8 in a league game ...

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HRlU1JNUM4OYsg1PRCq@

As you can see the bank was taken out of the equation, and there wasn't enough room to try to cut it into the near corner pocket, so I was looking for a decent safety option to get me back to the table.

After much debate I decided to nip the 8 and try to leave the cue ball between the rail and the 10. I was hoping it would leave my opponent with a very difficult shot on the 10 while pushing in the 8 in front of the pocket for me. Unfortunately, I hit the 8 too thin and sold out and my opponent ended up winning the rack.

This shot has been bothering me for about three weeks now, so I want to open it up to the masses to see what I could have done differently. Dazzle me, people.

From what I see ......you made the proper choice, you just failed to execute it properly....keep setting it up and shooting till ya get it right.
Doing this should help prevent a brain fart if this shot is encountered again.

Masayoshi
03-11-2010, 11:56 PM
How about kicking softly one rail into the 8 trying to freeze the 8 on the 10 and the cueball to the rail? That way, at the very worst, you leave your opponent straight in jacked up on the rail with a cluster at the opposite end of the table. Just make sure you catch the rail after contact and you'll leave him fairly tough. I think letting your opponent see the 10 is not a good idea because he needs to do something with the 10 before he gets out.

Mike in MN
03-12-2010, 12:00 AM
How about kicking one rail into the 8 trying to freeze the 8 on the 10 and the cueball to the rail? That way, the very worst you leave your opponent straight in jacked up on the rail. I think letting your opponent see the 10 is not a good idea because he needs to do something with the 10 before he gets out.

Nice vision, I hadn't even thought of that. If played to speed it would have been a great shot because even if I didn't lock up the 8 and 10, full contact on the 8 would have left him no look at the 10. All he would have had was a long, straight look at the 15, and he would have had to cue off the rail no less. Even though it's a slightly lower percentage shot, I'm definitely going to work on that.

thefonz
03-12-2010, 12:03 AM
i think your shot would have been good if you had executed it the way you wanted it to, i think even if he didn't have a shot at the 10 the best leave he would get would still allow you to have a kick at the eight or rail first to pocket it. but as an option I would have tried to double kiss it toward the corner pocket, if you play it right you'll either make it or leave the eight over the hole, even though you'd leave him a shot on the 15 he'd have to play short side on the 10 for position. kinda risky but in a situation like this but i;d want to have a chance at making the eight at least.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HRlU1JNUM4OYsg1PRCd1cRlU1cRth1cSKU1cbrl1kRCd1kR UF1kRUU1kMkv@

thefonz
03-12-2010, 12:08 AM
How about kicking softly one rail into the 8 trying to freeze the 8 on the 10 and the cueball to the rail? That way, at the very worst, you leave your opponent straight in jacked up on the rail with a cluster at the opposite end of the table. Just make sure you catch the rail after contact and you'll leave him fairly tough. I think letting your opponent see the 10 is not a good idea because he needs to do something with the 10 before he gets out.

i dunno about that, if i were the opponent, i'd just lag the 15 too the corner pocket for a safe, and then you'd be screwed having to shoot the eight tied up to the 10.

Bambu
03-12-2010, 01:31 AM
I was recently left this shot on the 8 in a league game ...

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HRlU1JNUM4OYsg1PRCq@

As you can see the bank was taken out of the equation, and there wasn't enough room to try to cut it into the near corner pocket, so I was looking for a decent safety option to get me back to the table.

After much debate I decided to nip the 8 and try to leave the cue ball between the rail and the 10. I was hoping it would leave my opponent with a very difficult shot on the 10 while pushing in the 8 in front of the pocket for me. Unfortunately, I hit the 8 too thin and sold out and my opponent ended up winning the rack.

This shot has been bothering me for about three weeks now, so I want to open it up to the masses to see what I could have done differently. Dazzle me, people.


http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HRlU1JNUM4OYsg1PRCq1cRlU1cObk2cPOl1kRCq1kTxK1kT xK1kVtj1kVtj1kbRW3kakK3kObh@

I'd try some right spin on the cue ball to transfer some left on the 8. This would expose the 8 ball to a pocket while playing safe.

You could play it center ball too, and the leave would be better. But, the 8 might not bounce off the short rail enough. Table speed means alot here.

Hit the 8 too full, and you could also end up making it in the top right corner(off the 10). (Might not be a bad idea to call that instead of a safe, no risk involved.)


http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HRlU1JNUM4OYsg1PRCq1cRlU1cNdi2cCqV2cDgS1kRCq1kU GM1kVdi1kbiA3kDQk@

donny mills
03-12-2010, 03:56 AM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HRlU1JNUM4OYsg1PRCq1cRlU1cObk2cPOl1kRCq1kTxK1kT xK1kVtj1kVtj1kbRW3kakK3kObh@

I'd try some right spin on the cue ball to transfer some left on the 8. This would expose the 8 ball to a pocket while playing safe.

You could play it center ball too, and the leave would be better. But, the 8 might not bounce off the short rail enough. Table speed means alot here.

Hit the 8 too full, and you could also end up making it in the top right corner(off the 10). (Might not be a bad idea to call that instead of a safe, no risk involved.)


http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HRlU1JNUM4OYsg1PRCq1cRlU1cNdi2cCqV2cDgS1kRCq1kU GM1kVdi1kbiA3kDQk@


I like your two shots. One other shot I see- Hit the 8 super thin on the left side so your cutting the 8 towards the hole, the cueball will hit the end rail and then hit the 10ball full and knock it down table and the cueball will stick right there (especially on new cloth. So now your opponent is left with a long long shot off the rail. If you left the 8 in front of the hole you'd probably be a favorite.

GADawg
03-12-2010, 04:23 AM
I like your first choice. If you leave him any chance to shoot the 15, your next shot will be very difficult at best.

The way these balls sit, if it's a 9 foot table, any shot in the directions talked about above will involve using the bridge which increases the difficulty, for me at least.

Another thought, which removes the bridge from the process, is to kick off the bottom long rail into the lower side of the eight, nudging it close to the ten trying to hook the opponent behind the 8 10 cluster with no shot at the 15. Being so close, it should not be a difficult kick to execute.

jdxprs
03-12-2010, 05:10 AM
wanted to try this before posting, but here is what i came up with. one offense, and one defense. try them both, see what you think.

offense-go just a hair left of center on the 8 with low left. 3 rail bank on the 8 (to the top right corner on diagram) and generally a tougher leave for your opponent if you miss since you bump the 10 ball out and/or over.

for the defense, play a soft bank putting the 8 ball on the 15. hit softly you can easily leave a very tough shot on the 10, and basically no shot on the 15 even if the 10 is pocketed.

if the execution is decent on either option, i give you a pretty good chance of getting back to the table.

JoeyA
03-12-2010, 08:47 AM
It's hard to tell if you can miss the kiss with the eight by shooting the shot below but if you can this is the way I would play the shot. Even if you leave him a shot on the 15 ball, he doesn't have to like trying to make the 15 and not leaving you a shot on the 8 ball and if he tries to play safe on the 15 and run the cue ball up and down the table, he could have trouble snookering you behind the 10 ball. Freezing the cue up against the 10 ball is how I would play it.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HRlU1JNUM4OYsg1PRCr1cRlU1cSCi1cThV1kRCr1kRdE1kP hh1kOrd@

JoeyA

CreeDo
03-12-2010, 09:02 AM
Something I'm fond of saying to people I teach:

The right shot is the right shot, even if you miss it.
And the wrong shot is the wrong shot even if you make it.

You took the right shot, it just didn't work out. Sometimes your only choice is between 'tough' and 'impossible'. Can't beat yourself up when the tough option doesn't go right, that's why it's called tough.

Neil
03-12-2010, 09:24 AM
............

Eric.
03-12-2010, 09:42 AM
I havent seen it mentioned yet, but I like to thin the 8 ball on the right side, opposite the 10 ball. hit it real thin and soft. You want to concentrate on the 8 ball, mostly. You're basically trying to leave him partially or fully hooked from the 10 and move the 8 ball into a spot where you can cut it in, if he plays safe off the 15.

you are the underdog here. Anything less than having a hanger 8 ball is not putting enough pressure back on your opponent.


Eric

Beware_of_Dawg
03-12-2010, 09:52 AM
Curious, hard to tell by the pic, if your oppenent had ball in hand, Does the 10 clear to the upper corner pocket?

Either way,

The ten looks like your friend in this situation in a couple ways... and I don't know that I want to change that dynamic... Let him change it if possible...

outside the box...

the shot for me may very well be to shoot the 8ball flush enough (bottom english kissback) into the upper rail to do a kiss back on the cueball, sending the cueball uptable... from the illistartion it appears the angle would not only send the cueball up table but also towards the center slightly... two things happen here... I guess you could introduce a possible double kiss 8 ball in it's corner... depending. I dont know if I want to go that thin on the kissback... full kissback the cueball is send back up table making a shot on the 15 diffucult but more importantly making a leave on the 10 from the 15 even more difficult.... With a decent thinner kickback shot your 8ball could go, if it doesn't it still holds that corner blocking the 10...


Its very tough for me to look at this layout on the cuetable illistration an describe, I wish I were at a table right now, thats the shot Im confident... I hope my description makes sense... Im not losing the game on that shot.

Neil
03-12-2010, 09:55 AM
..........

Ratta
03-12-2010, 10:51 AM
First i wanna say that in my opinion the way Bambu shown up is very good- the opponent is under pressure if the safety has been played well.

Another could be played this way- but only if the eight-ball is between 3/4 to 1,5 of a ballsize far away from the rail- then you could play this save here , too

http://CueTable.com/P/?@1HQvQ1JNUM4OYsg1PRCq1kRCq1kbqy1kRti@


LIke i said- Bambu s way i would prefer, because the opponent is now forced to do something- he s still in advantage for sure-but he has to do something:)

Eric.
03-12-2010, 11:12 AM
As it sits, the 8 is too close to the 10 to be able to cut it in. You are advocating hitting the right side of the 8, which has to move it even closer to the 10. Just how do you plan on cutting it in when he plays safe off the 15?? You will be very lucky to even be able to see the 8 after a proper safe off the 15.

You can thin across the 8 ball and have the 8 bounce straight back, hopefully about an inch or so more than where it's at. The CB should go 2 rails and stop about 1/2 diamond from the corner, on the side rail.

Even if you don't hit it perfect, he should still be partially hooked on the 10. More importantly, it the 8 ball stops slightly further out in the table than where it is now, it cuts into the corner and forces the opponent to play a good return safe, rather than just roll the CB up table off the 15.

*edit-this is assuming that you can cut across the 8 abd not scratch; it's hard to tell from the WEI table and my neck hurts from turning sideways to view it.

Eric

Beware_of_Dawg
03-12-2010, 01:02 PM
haven't heard anyone dispute or concur with the 8ball kissback move/safe I mentioned?

Im going to try it myself tonight and try a handful of other thoughts that you guys have mentioned to see if my thought process of this situation and the conclusion I felt was the best option had merit... The more Ive thought about it, the more resolve I have in that choice vs. other options and i did stay at a holiday inn express last night. So... Plus, The other moves appear to have more risk but not much more potential reward?

Mike in MN
03-12-2010, 11:53 PM
Something I'm fond of saying to people I teach:

The right shot is the right shot, even if you miss it.
And the wrong shot is the wrong shot even if you make it.

You took the right shot, it just didn't work out. Sometimes your only choice is between 'tough' and 'impossible'. Can't beat yourself up when the tough option doesn't go right, that's why it's called tough.

Thanks CreeDo, that's nice to hear.