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View Full Version : The WPBA: What we really should be discussing is...


TimKrazyMon
03-12-2010, 10:39 AM
Ladies & gentlemen, now that we know the dire straits that the WPBA is in, this is no longer the time to be boasting how right you were or assigning blame. None of this fixes the problems. I'm starting this thread to discuss ideas on changes that can be made to turn the WPBA around.

I'll lead off with the idea of changing the format: give us more pool. Instead of a 64-lady modified single elim bracket, change it to a round robin. Start out with 8 groups of 8 players, top 2 move on. then 2 groups of 8 players, top 2 move on. Then, a random draw top 4 single elim for TV.

I think this will help on multiple levels. First, more pool for the fans to go see, so more days of fans buying admission & merchandise. Second, round robin will help with developing the less experienced players by giving them more matches against top flight competition.

Ashley
03-12-2010, 10:49 AM
Change the qualifier process back.

Make the Women's US Open accept all women's entries not just the ones who get invited. (what in the world could this hurt!)

That's all I have right now without getting too opinionated....

Marie's husband
03-12-2010, 10:58 AM
I would hate to see the WPBA fall apart, at least they are trying to run a national tour rather than just invitational tournaments like the men have.

As for the Round Robin format. IMHO, I feel all major tournaments should be like that and I dont think with breaking it down to groups of 8 it would take any longer than a regular double elimination tournament as long as you had at least 16 tables. It would draw more spectators and I think it creates a little bit more drama than just a double elimination.

Also, I think that it may be a good idea for them to seek out 2 or 3 of the top female players in the area in which there next tournament is going to be and allow them to enter that event for free. I think that would promote the game of pool and may bring in more spectators just because the local is playing against known pro's. Just a thought.

kvinbrwr
03-12-2010, 11:20 AM
Maybe they should elect a President who is interested, has the time and the connections in order to try and land some real (outside of pool) sponsors and then support him long enough to let him try.

Oh, that has already happened, except for the support part (of course, this is pool after all). Nevermind.

Kevin

Roger Long
03-12-2010, 12:09 PM
This is not a problem with the WPBA so much as it is a problem with pool in general. Pool simply does not appeal to the masses.

I love watching pool of all kinds. I'll even pay to sit and watch professionals play it live and in person. But I won't watch it on TV. Why? Because I think it's boring. And if I - a person who loves pool - think TV pool is boring, how do you think the general public feels about it? But large television audiences are what is needed to sustain professional pool.

If anyone ever comes up with a program for pool that will attract and hold the attention of the masses, sponsors (advertisers) will be all over it. Until then...

Roger

oldzilla
03-12-2010, 12:14 PM
Change the qualifier process back.

Make the Women's US Open accept all women's entries not just the ones who get invited. (what in the world could this hurt!)

That's all I have right now without getting too opinionated....

Hmmmm. the women's U S Open Invitational.

oxymoron you think?

I think an event called an OPEN should be just that, OPEN ! :cool:

cuesmith
03-12-2010, 12:25 PM
Hmmmm. the women's U S Open Invitational.

oxymoron you think?

I think an event called an OPEN should be just that, OPEN ! :cool:

Either that or they should re-name it!

oldzilla
03-12-2010, 12:43 PM
ok here's a thought ! i think the introductions should be much more dramatic for the late rounds on tv and streams. like they used to when they had that boar sponser deal.

it worked well at the mosconi cup. didn't it ?

the players coming out of the light up fogged area with a announcer build up. much more exciting to be part of for spectators and viewers alike.

when you see a big football game or something you see the team excite the crowd with their appearence in dramatic fashion.

most poolplayers are modestly introduced and hardly take a bow. come on man ! if you want pool to have fans you got to excite them a bit. a little animation has proven to be pleasing to most spectators. its a no brainer.

just my 2 cents if some one is taking notes on this.:cool:

Marie's husband
03-12-2010, 12:45 PM
Roger,

I also love to just watch the game of pool being played live, but hate watching it on TV because tv makes it boring. Now that Live Streaming has become somewhat of the norm for major tournaments and local tournaments, I catch myself sitting behind a computer 3-4 hours sometimes just watching the game and interacting in the chat room. Also the live stream commentators usually talk about pool, rather than try and explain what shot the player is going to do next. Its so much better than listening to the TV commentator trying to tell you how she is going to hit it off the rail and come between the two balls to get position and what she really does is plays a stop shot. So right now I think the WPBA should maybe look into getting a fan following in the live streaming area before they try and move back into the TV business.

Michael-Hoang
03-12-2010, 12:49 PM
In order to fix anything correctly, the correct problem must be identified. To be able to identify the problem correctly, one must have inside knowledge, which none of us do.

So we can only speculate.

The WPBA is a business. Its survivorship is based on the $$$ (sponsorships) it generates. Unfortunately, just like many, many other businesses, the WPBA is suffering during this tough economic times.

The ladies just need to tough it out, stay strong, united and weather the storm.

Robroy
03-12-2010, 12:56 PM
Ladies & gentlemen, now that we know the dire straits that the WPBA is in, this is no longer the time to be boasting how right you were or assigning blame. None of this fixes the problems. I'm starting this thread to discuss ideas on changes that can be made to turn the WPBA around.

I'll lead off with the idea of changing the format: give us more pool. Instead of a 64-lady modified single elim bracket, change it to a round robin. Start out with 8 groups of 8 players, top 2 move on. then 2 groups of 8 players, top 2 move on. Then, a random draw top 4 single elim for TV.

I think this will help on multiple levels. First, more pool for the fans to go see, so more days of fans buying admission & merchandise. Second, round robin will help with developing the less experienced players by giving them more matches against top flight competition.

I remember the "Gordon's events "Round Robin" they went smooth and fast. I forget how many players there were. But the format really was enjoyed by everyone.

TimKrazyMon
03-12-2010, 01:00 PM
What I thinking is that if I can watch an entire snooker match on TV/live stream & be thoroughly entertained and yet be bored to tears watching American pool on TV, the problem is either A)the game, or B)the announcers.

In the WPBA's case, I went to the taping of the 2008 Carolina Classic and enjoyed all 3 matches. I then watched (attempted to, anyway) the matches on TV & found myself pounding my head with a mallet. I think it's time to replace Mitch & Dawn/Eva with someone who'll breathe a little life into the game.

oldzilla
03-12-2010, 01:01 PM
I remember the "Gordon's events "Round Robin" they went smooth and fast. I forget how many players there were. But the format really was enjoyed by everyone.

ok here's a thought ! i think the introductions should be much more dramatic for the late rounds on tv and streams. like they used to when they had that boar sponser deal.

it worked well at the mosconi cup. didn't it ?

the players coming out of the light up fogged area with a announcer build up. much more exciting to be part of for spectators and viewers alike.

when you see a big football game or something you see the team excite the crowd with their appearence in dramatic fashion.

most poolplayers are modestly introduced and hardly take a bow. come on man ! if you want pool to have fans you got to excite them a bit. a little animation has proven to be pleasing to most spectators. its a no brainer.

just my 2 cents if some one is taking notes on this.:cool:

thats what i'm talking about !

Roger Long
03-12-2010, 01:07 PM
ok here's a thought ! i think the introductions should be much more dramatic for the late rounds on tv and streams. like they used to when they had that boar sponser deal.

it worked well at the mosconi cup. didn't it ?

the players coming out of the light up fogged area with a announcer build up. much more exciting to be part of for spectators and viewers alike.

when you see a big football game or something you see the team excite the crowd with their appearence in dramatic fashion.

most poolplayers are modestly introduced and hardly take a bow. come on man ! if you want pool to have fans you got to excite them a bit. a little animation has proven to be pleasing to most spectators. its a no brainer.

just my 2 cents if some one is taking notes on this.:cool:

Now you're talkin'! This is precisely what I've been saying for years.

Roger

WPBA Player
03-12-2010, 01:24 PM
Were you in that meeting on wednesday? How can we support a man who yells at players in a players meeting? I tried to speak up once and was shot down by one of his favorite players before I could even finish what I had to say. The way he treated Ewa was just wrong. I worked this hard for this?

Maybe they should elect a President who is interested, has the time and the connections in order to try and land some real (outside of pool) sponsors and then support him long enough to let him try.

Oh, that has already happened, except for the support part (of course, this is pool after all). Nevermind.

Kevin

oldzilla
03-12-2010, 01:36 PM
Were you in that meeting on wednesday? How can we support a man who yells at players in a players meeting? I tried to speak up once and was shot down by one of his favorite players before I could even finish what I had to say. The way he treated Ewa was just wrong. I worked this hard for this?

you go girl !

green for you , makes you look more official.:cool:

MikeM
03-12-2010, 01:40 PM
Stop putting the APA's paranoid concerns ahead of the WPBA's and put Mark Griffin on the board!

kvinbrwr
03-12-2010, 01:40 PM
Were you in that meeting on wednesday? How can we support a man who yells at players in a players meeting? I tried to speak up once and was shot down by one of his favorite players before I could even finish what I had to say. The way he treated Ewa was just wrong. I worked this hard for this?

No I wasn't there. Its easy to know where I am as my name is Kevin Brewer.

Big Perm
03-12-2010, 01:54 PM
To the OP, I really like the 8 groups of 8 idea for all the reasons you mentioned.....you can seed the top 16 players.....put 1 and 16 in the same round robin, 2 and 15, and so on.....you are right, it would be GREAT experience for the upcoming players and great for the audience...

2nd, for TV or just the general audience, pace of play must be maintained.....on TV, they do keep it to 30 seconds which is good, but do they do it for all matches...

3rd, your average person wants to watch great shots.....not 6 easy shots and then a safety.....it's boring....it needs to be addressed....not exactly sure how...

4th, love the idea about inviting a few of the local players to compete, draws in local fans to watch....

5th, our local OB Tour gals seem to do a pretty damn good job of getting a few fans and making rooms happy with their visits....you might talk to them to get some ideas....

cajunfats
03-12-2010, 01:54 PM
Roger,

I also love to just watch the game of pool being played live, but hate watching it on TV because tv makes it boring. Now that Live Streaming has become somewhat of the norm for major tournaments and local tournaments, I catch myself sitting behind a computer 3-4 hours sometimes just watching the game and interacting in the chat room. Also the live stream commentators usually talk about pool, rather than try and explain what shot the player is going to do next. Its so much better than listening to the TV commentator trying to tell you how she is going to hit it off the rail and come between the two balls to get position and what she really does is plays a stop shot. So right now I think the WPBA should maybe look into getting a fan following in the live streaming area before they try and move back into the TV business. Last night I had the Live Stream up on my computer while I washed dishes,clothes,and generally wandered in and out. Oh,I even left it on while I went down to Coushatta Casino to watch the ACS State Tournament. Wish that was being streamed also. I also jumped in and out of the forums while the Stream was on. It is more enjoyable for me to watch the matches this way versus TV. IMHO,Television is the past for Pool,and the Internet Live Stream is the future. Good Post!!

TimKrazyMon
03-12-2010, 02:01 PM
2nd, for TV or just the general audience, pace of play must be maintained.....on TV, they do keep it to 30 seconds which is good, but do they do it for all matches...



On TV, the 30-sec shot clock is on full time. However, before the TV rounds the shot clock is only employed when a match is running behind the pace it should. They set a guideline that if a match is not in sucn-n-such a game by such-n-such a time, they put that match on the clock.

cajunfats
03-12-2010, 02:10 PM
Were you in that meeting on wednesday? How can we support a man who yells at players in a players meeting? I tried to speak up once and was shot down by one of his favorite players before I could even finish what I had to say. The way he treated Ewa was just wrong. I worked this hard for this? To hear this happened is troubling to say the very least. In the art of diplomacy,respect is easily lost,and difficult to regain. Leadership means having to dress down even your closest of friends. How you do it and how you handle crisis is the key. I read an old marriage card once,"Don't yell at each other,unless the house is on fire.",and think it applies to a lot more than marriage. Unfortunately,Disrespect often leads to Divorce.

8up
03-12-2010, 06:55 PM
A large part of the pool community never watches a game on tv or a streaming feed either. Why? One reason is they have no access to it. I have Directtv and pay $80 a month and the only thing on is a once a week mosconi cup. I live in the country and there is no other tv option. We also only have satellite (hughesnet) Internet, which limits us to 200mb a day for $80 a month. So I can't watch streaming either. Figure out how to get the games to people like me. That is a very large group.

One solution could be to put up all games on a site with a small membership fee that lets you download them when you want. This would allow satellite internet uses to download during the 1:00-6:00am free period that hughesnet and wildblue provides. TV providers charge $3.00 a month for an extra channel. Charge the same for a membership to a website that provides all the current events of each month they can pack on it.

As it is I have to be up in the middle of the night to watch whatever I can find on youtube.

If none of this makes sense forget I typed it :smile:

Holly
03-13-2010, 09:42 AM
bump for this thread

PoolJunkie216
03-13-2010, 11:56 AM
I think honestly the tv side of things should be the last thing dealt with. There are a lot more problems with the financials especially in terms of sponsorship.

When it comes to tv, people need to learn & accept that pool becoming as popular as it once was will probably never happen. I am not saying to give up, but to accept what reality is.

As each generation passes, attention spans get lower & lower. Pool is a very mental sport & when the majority of society has short attention spans, you can see how the two can't mix. It is a clear case of oil & water.

If you want to have a shot in the arm, they should try airing the events live. People do not want to watch taped events. With the internet being so readily available, you can find out results the same day. Who outside of diehards is really going to wait a month or so for it to air on television.

Realistically speaking, the marketing done by the WPBA is garbage. If people don't know events are happening, that is strictly on you. Based on the attendance numbers from the events, it sure seems that is the case.

Also a big issue is location in my opinion. The Northeast has a huge pool scene, especially NYC yet no event is really close by. I would go in a heartbeat if one was in NYC. I understand some factors have to be met but maybe some are too limiting in terms of finding locations.

However in the end unless everyone is on the same page, you will fail in getting anything done. Judging from how things have been, being on the same page obviously is not happening. Fix that first, then attack everything else.

oldzilla
03-13-2010, 12:10 PM
I think honestly the tv side of things should be the last thing dealt with. There are a lot more problems with the financials especially in terms of sponsorship.

When it comes to tv, people need to learn & accept that pool becoming as popular as it once was will probably never happen. I am not saying to give up, but to accept what reality is.

As each generation passes, attention spans get lower & lower. Pool is a very mental sport & when the majority of society has short attention spans, you can see how the two can't mix. It is a clear case of oil & water.

If you want to have a shot in the arm, they should try airing the events live. People do not want to watch taped events. With the internet being so readily available, you can find out results the same day. Who outside of diehards is really going to wait a month or so for it to air on television.

Realistically speaking, the marketing done by the WPBA is garbage. If people don't know events are happening, that is strictly on you. Based on the attendance numbers from the events, it sure seems that is the case.

Also a big issue is location in my opinion. The Northeast has a huge pool scene, especially NYC yet no event is really close by. I would go in a heartbeat if one was in NYC. I understand some factors have to be met but maybe some are too limiting in terms of finding locations.

However in the end unless everyone is on the same page, you will fail in getting anything done. Judging from how things have been, being on the same page obviously is not happening. Fix that first, then attack everything else.

the big word here islive tv has never offered live pool events. streaming has that and may take out tv in the future !