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View Full Version : Leagues? why not help sponser the pro's???


Trent
03-12-2010, 07:26 PM
so all you league people out there would you pay a extra 2 dollars on your sanction fees to help sponser the pro tour???

Just 2 dollars??? so lets say that every league APA BCA and VNEA and every other league all up their sanction fees 2 dollars would you be upset??? i dought it, especially if it went to the pros can you imagine how much more money would be in pool!!

lets say theres 200,000 league players out there just a number off the top of my head ok dont go hitting me with stats or anything im just talking here ok. anyways that would produce 400,000 dollars for the pro tour and help sponser the game!!

Dee Adkins and I were yalking about this today and it really makes since! so lets here it

would you pay extra money to sponser the pros ????

if no why?

and who do we need to talk to, in order to get this done?

CocoboloCowboy
03-12-2010, 07:38 PM
so all you league people out there would you pay a extra 2 dollars on your sanction fees to help sponser the pro tour???

Good idea if you can get people to do it, that being give $2.00.

Just 2 dollars??? so lets say that every league APA BCA and VNEA and every other league all up their sanction fees 2 dollars would you be upset??? i dought it, especially if it went to the pros can you imagine how much more money would be in pool!!

So why don't the Pro go after their own sponsors like other athletes?

lets say theres 200,000 league players out there just a number off the top of my head ok dont go hitting me with stats or anything im just talking here ok. anyways that would produce 400,000 dollars for the pro tour and help sponser the game!!

With the 200,000 you talk about why are the League Owners/Operators not going after Corporate America for Sponsorships, as Pool Player are already Supporting Corporate America. Each time we spend our GREEN.

Dee Adkins and I were yalking about this today and it really makes since! so lets here it

would you pay extra money to sponser the pros ????

if no why?

Don't play league, have a favorite charity I support monthly.


and who do we need to talk to, in order to get this done?


What product do you buy on a regular basis, start with those company who don't support Pool, and make money from Pool Players.

Trent
03-12-2010, 07:49 PM
if we get a steady tour flowing that will make sponsers more willing to support the players, and bring diffrent sponsers out side the pool world at least we can hope and if you dont play league then this thread really isnt directed towards you.

theres players out there that go to a large tournament against the greatest players in the world and place 5th and end up being stuck 500 for the weekend because pool doesnt have enough sponsers or a solid tour thats continuous enough to give people the confidence to put more money into it.

CocoboloCowboy
03-12-2010, 07:55 PM
Pool, and Pool Player have a in general BAD IMAGE, if you want Corporate America to throw their advertising, sponsorship dollar at Pool imho Pool needs to start with a image makeover, and a dress & conduct code for all players. Also all Pool imho need to be under one organization, so you have the strength of number.

pooladdiction
03-12-2010, 08:06 PM
I personally wouldn't have a problem with supporting pro pool but I think your idea of amateur organizations giving money to pro pool would not be well received. Let me explain. I know this isn't the best analogy but here it is. Do you love professional football? Would you like your sons high school football team regisration fee being raised so the Chicago Bears could have a raise. Didn't think so. I know some of this is lost due to the fact were comparing multimillion dollar football players to pro pool players who can barely make a living but maybe you can see how the average working man may not have much sympathy for some one who plays a game for a living. My suggestion, buy as many American made pool products as possible and get a petition going to espn

gunzby
03-12-2010, 08:14 PM
Our LO sponsors Kelly Fisher and has for the last year or so. Eva is a LO near here so she is probably doing well.

I for one wouldn't mind paying a little extra to help sponsor the WPBA, but that would come with the stipulation that the Carolina Classic came back.

Neil
03-12-2010, 09:03 PM
............

cuesmith
03-12-2010, 09:13 PM
so all you league people out there would you pay a extra 2 dollars on your sanction fees to help sponser the pro tour???

Just 2 dollars??? so lets say that every league APA BCA and VNEA and every other league all up their sanction fees 2 dollars would you be upset??? i dought it, especially if it went to the pros can you imagine how much more money would be in pool!!

lets say theres 200,000 league players out there just a number off the top of my head ok dont go hitting me with stats or anything im just talking here ok. anyways that would produce 400,000 dollars for the pro tour and help sponser the game!!

Dee Adkins and I were yalking about this today and it really makes since! so lets here it

would you pay extra money to sponser the pros ????

if no why?

and who do we need to talk to, in order to get this done?

I agree. The APA has been lining their own pockets for decades. I think they should match the $2.00 the player/members kick in and maybe then we could fund a pro tour.

Maniac
03-12-2010, 09:20 PM
I play in BCA and APA leagues, and I would be highly offended if either league demanded an extra $2.00 per night from me to support a pro tour. For one thing, I don't care if a pro tour is ever established. Secondly, I wouldn't care if a "pro" player anywhere ever made another dime playing pool. Anti-pool you say? Not so, not at all. I love the game as much as anyone out there. I spend PLENTY of money supporting the industry as a whole. Just don't see the need for anyone to make money off of it (by playing it), or ANY professional sport as far as that goes. If you truly love the game, you would just be satisfied knowing that you are blessed with each and every opportunity you have to play it.

Leave the "little man" alone. If someone out there with money, lots of it, wants to blow it on "pro" poolplayers, more power to him. Just don't bust my chops for it!!!

Maniac

Trent
03-12-2010, 09:33 PM
I play in BCA and APA leagues, and I would be highly offended if either league demanded an extra $2.00 per night from me to support a pro tour. For one thing, I don't care if a pro tour is ever established. Secondly, I wouldn't care if a "pro" player anywhere ever made another dime playing pool. Anti-pool you say? Not so, not at all. I love the game as much as anyone out there. I spend PLENTY of money supporting the industry as a whole. Just don't see the need for anyone to make money off of it (by playing it), or ANY professional sport as far as that goes. If you truly love the game, you would just be satisfied knowing that you are blessed with each and every opportunity you have to play it.

Leave the "little man" alone. If someone out there with money, lots of it, wants to blow it on "pro" poolplayers, more power to him. Just don't bust my chops for it!!!

Maniac


ok i said sanction fee not nightly fee it would be a once or twice a year thing big deal, and it wouldnt be for just supporting pro's but the game that we all love, the more we can strive to make pool a larger more profitable system the better off it will be in the future.

and your saying screw the people we aspire to play as good as, to hell with the people who have made the game what it is today right??


this is grose i thought posting here would get a better response than this and people wonder why pool is the way it is its due to people who dont give a damn about growing the industy even if it would only cost them the same amount of money they lose in the couch cushions each yr.

Maniac
03-12-2010, 09:42 PM
ok i said sanction fee not nightly fee it would be a once or twice a year thing big deal, and it wouldnt be for just supporting pro's but the game that we all love, the more we can strive to make pool a larger more profitable system the better off it will be in the future.

and your saying screw the people we aspire to play as good as, to hell with the people who have made the game what it is today right??


this is grose i thought posting here would get a better response than this and people wonder why pool is the way it is its due to people who dont give a damn about growing the industy even if it would only cost them the same amount of money they lose in the couch cushions each yr.

Excuse me Trent, did I use the words "screw" or "to hell with" in my post??? Don't put words like this in my mouth if you don't mind. And please, may I have an opinion even if it is NOT the same as yours??? I can tell you this: News Flash......pocket billiards in this country is NOT going away, with or without a "pro" tour (heck, most organizations can't even agree on the criteria/qualifications of what a "professional" poolplayer is).

Like Neil already said, most league players wouldn't know who Shane Van Boening was, so you think pool is going to suffer without a "pro" tour? Hardly!!!

Maniac

Maniac
03-12-2010, 09:46 PM
and your saying screw the people we aspire to play as good as, to hell with the people who have made the game what it is today right??



Another thing.......you think everyone that plays the game "aspires" to be as good as a pro? Not likely. Probably not even a large percentage if I were to guess.

Maniac

RShellhouse
03-12-2010, 09:49 PM
To start with I will proudly admit to being the League Operator for the USAPL in North New Jersey so it might be said I am biased.



The USAPL does donate to a professional pool fund. 50 cents from every players weekly fees is set aside for professional pool be it added monies to tournament or performance fees.


It comes from their end so its not an give us a extra 50cents so gotta support that at leasr.

R

meximan2469
03-12-2010, 09:49 PM
I got numbers from a high ranking member of the APA the other day stating that between the APA and CPA they have 270,000 members, that would be over a half million. I'm sure between the BCA, VNEA and TAP you would be twice as high total. Sounds like a really good idea to me. Although I agree that alot of the recreational league players don't follow the pro's......but I think that is mostly becausen they are not easily exposed to it.

dr9ball
03-12-2010, 09:53 PM
snipped for brevity


this is gross i thought posting here would get a better response than this and people wonder why pool is the way it is its due to people who don't give a damn about growing the industry even if it would only cost them the same amount of money they lose in the couch cushions each yr.

Seriously, it sounds like you're advocating a tax on pool to support the professional players. Ever notice the $2 donation they ask for on the Federal Tax forms that goes to the Presidential re-election campaign?

We don't need another welfare state. If people want to help support a pro player let them do it individually. Personally I would like to see more people support the local players and room owners by playing in tournaments and practicing in the local rooms. That would in my opinion help stimulate the economy.

Of course, opinions are held by most everyone and you're certainly entitled to support the pros how ever you see fit.

pooladdiction
03-12-2010, 10:10 PM
Please don't get the impression that I'm anti pro pool tour. Nothing could be further from the truth. Please look at my thread Why is there no Real pro tour? (sorry I don't know how to do links) I also posted on one of the wpba tour threads on here that I would be more than willing to pay up to $10 a month for an exclusive billiards channel. All I was saying is that I don't think taking money from amateur organizations to fund pro orgs is a good idea. By the way you can see how the relationship with Apa and Wpba is going. I like the point Neil made in this thread. True story- the other day I was playing league when I happened mention to my teammates that I had found some good pool videos on YouTube. I then said "man, I could watch Efren Reyes play all day." Seriously, there were crickets. Only 1 out of my 7 other teammates had any idea who Efren was. You're forgetting everyone on here is very passionate about pool, the majority of league players are a bunch of ballbangers who like getting together with their buds once a week and sucking down some cold beer. Nothing wrong with that.;)

Trent
03-12-2010, 10:21 PM
ok so maybe i flew off the handle a touch but it is aggravating at times but what if it was only one dollar would the league players who do or dont know who the pros are care where it going? i mean seriously, would it be that big of a deal to give a couple dollars a yr to help out a pro tour???

all i was intrested in was venting a idea to try and help the sport out, im starting to feel sorry for mentioning it now.

pooladdiction
03-12-2010, 10:29 PM
ok so maybe i flew off the handle a touch but it is aggravating at times but what if it was only one dollar would the league players who do or dont know who the pros are care where it going? i mean seriously, would it be that big of a deal to give a couple dollars a yr to help out a pro tour???

all i was intrested in was venting a idea to try and help the sport out, im starting to feel sorry for mentioning it now.

Don't feel sorry about bringing this up at all. I love discissions like this! I feel your frustration, I really do. I'm glad we're discussing it on here, thereby giving it more exposure;)

Trent
03-12-2010, 10:34 PM
its just frustrating hearing people Nit up over a couple dollars.

but you know what if a name like SVB or the black widow brought this up then people would be bending over backwards at this idea of spending a few dollars to help out.

DogsPlayingPool
03-12-2010, 10:55 PM
How about this idea - pool players support a professional tour by paying to attend tournaments? This has proved a highly successful business model for all the other major sports.

I don't know why, but the fact seems to be that pool players simply do not support the professional game. I was at the Predator 10 ball event last May in Las Vegas where most of the world's best were competing right down the hall from thousands of league players there for a national tournament. There were usually not more than 30-40 people at the pro event sessions and probably only a few of these were from the league tournament down the hall. And keep in mind this event is happening in a hotel full of supposed serious pool players.

As I said, I have no idea why this is. Do pool players find it boring to watch pros play? I sure don't. Are we generally, as a population, nits and cheapskates? I'd like to not think so but...then what's the reason? I'm not smart enough to figure it out.

I just think the success of professional pool will ultimately depend on its ability to generate significant attendance. If the attendance numbers are there then and only then perhaps sponsors, TV, and the Olympics will follow. These three don't really care how many people play the game. They are way more interested in how many watch it.

Mark Griffin
03-13-2010, 12:10 AM
Everyone needs to go to www.playusapool.com.

This is a new nationally handicapped league being created by CSI.

There are a LOT of advantages:
Free geographical areas for league managers
No player dues the first year
50% (minimum) paid back on the local level
'Fairplay' handicap system - 18 yrs experience with 70% hill-hill
Match play format (one on one)
50 cents of each players dues will go to 'pro pot'
Can play in BCAPL national event in May
Free web based stats


This is the future of pool - and it is actually functioning. Once we reach critical mass, the pool world will actually be funding its own future.

Please call our office (702-719-7665) with questions. This is the best deal out there and we need some good league managers. We have good support services for league managers.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI
BCAPL - USAPL - NCS

JB Cases
03-13-2010, 03:30 AM
so all you league people out there would you pay a extra 2 dollars on your sanction fees to help sponser the pro tour???

Not willingly.

Just 2 dollars??? so lets say that every league APA BCA and VNEA and every other league all up their sanction fees 2 dollars would you be upset??? i dought it, especially if it went to the pros can you imagine how much more money would be in pool!!

It's not much and if it were built in then no one would care and no one would miss it.

lets say theres 200,000 league players out there just a number off the top of my head ok dont go hitting me with stats or anything im just talking here ok. anyways that would produce 400,000 dollars for the pro tour and help sponser the game!!

Seems very simple doesn't it?

Dee Adkins and I were yalking about this today and it really makes since! so lets here it

Hear what? That a small bit of money from each member of a large group can fund the efforts of a small group? That's how charities work.

I put forth this very idea many time over the years. Mark Griffin liked it so much that he put it into action, albeit with a new league rather than an existing one.

The thing I am interested in hearing is what will the professional players do with this influx of capital? What are they willing to do for the money? Anything else besides just show up and play? What does the little league player get out of it?

I mean let's be very very very real for a second and admit that the majority of league players could care less about the pro game. If there were no pro tour and no pro tournaments then it wouldn't affect their enjoyment of the game one little tiny bit. They will still show up on league night and drink and have a good time and go home and watch the CSI that they recorded.

would you pay extra money to sponser the pros ????

Maybe. If it were built in and I didn't know about it then great. I just pay it and don't know or care where the money goes. I have never once questioned any LO where and how the 4,5,6 bucks goes that I pay in dues and membership fees.

and who do we need to talk to, in order to get this done?

No one. No one can "get it done". There is too much in the way of unreasonable competition in this business for any of the leagues to work together on the common goal of promoting pool over other sports.

The APA is the largest league and they do not play well with others. They would want to exert major control over any organization that they are putting half a million into. Combined the other leagues make up about half of the APA's membership so they would all have minority stakes in this venture and I am sure that wouldn't sit well with them.

It's a good idea and one which stands to benefit everyone in pool. But the problem is that there are too many egos and not enough workers in pool.

We already tried the experiment of taking from the many and giving to the few called the Billiard Congress of America. Instead of taking that money and funding a pro tour they threw it down the toilet promoting home recreation shows that introduced all the visitors to ping pong, golf simulators, darts, spas, video games, air hockey and poker - basically they told they buyers don't sell pool stuff, put in foosball, ping pong, gold games, etc... and you will make more money.

To the point where the BCA even decided a few years ago to change their mission statement from one which stated that their mission was to promote billiards to one that said their mission was to enhance the business of their members.

So that is the problem - the leagues aren't about to ship money to a bunch of people they don't control.

To Mark Griffin - just start your tour. Don't tell us about how it's financed. Just start it and tie it into your league so that the members and league operators see the merit and benefits from being associated with your pro tour. Call me for plenty of JB Ideas on the subject.

But, I don't DO these things for you, I will give you so many ideas that you will be years realizing them.

Then League Ops from other leagues will WANT to be on your system. Until now you give them no compelling reasons to change the status quo and upset their investments into what they are presently doing.

You should forget about telling us how bad the APA is and how they don't want to cooperate to promote pool. There is nothing we can do about it.

You need to understand that the APA works as it is right now. The league ops are doing well without any changes. These are your target customers though, not the people with no experience. You want to have a reason for someone with one hundred teams to bring them into your system. The PLAYERS for the most part could care less as long as they can have their fun. But they aren't going to leave their friends behind because you tell them that your thing is better.

So do your thing. Start a tour, start small, grow it and in ten years you will have overtaken the APA and left them in the dust. You will have it all from top to bottom. But it's not going to happen through wordy campaigns on here.

And you know I tell you this because I BELIEVE in you.

Your friend,

John

JesPiddlin
03-13-2010, 04:19 AM
Most of the league players around here don't even know who Shane VanBoening is, let alone be willing to help support him.

I find that is the case around here, too, Neil. But, we have been bringing pool news of the outside world and its accomplishments into our little pool hall, so some of our regulars are much more aware than the rest of this big city. And, they get a good magazine that helps them keep up with who's who and winning what in the big, outside world. Can't beat that!

I've been putting together sponsorrack.com and trying to get all the details worked out. I'll have some paperwork with me at the Expo. After I return home from the Expo, I will begin putting sponsors with events/players. I'm offering free memberships with no listing fees until June, so everyone can try it out (while I'm working out any kinks), before they decide to join. The fees will be nominal, when they start up in June.

Later! I've gotta get some shut-eye, so we can travel in the morning.

JB Cases
03-13-2010, 04:33 AM
How about this idea - pool players support a professional tour by paying to attend tournaments? This has proved a highly successful business model for all the other major sports.

I don't know why, but the fact seems to be that pool players simply do not support the professional game. I was at the Predator 10 ball event last May in Las Vegas where most of the world's best were competing right down the hall from thousands of league players there for a national tournament. There were usually not more than 30-40 people at the pro event sessions and probably only a few of these were from the league tournament down the hall. And keep in mind this event is happening in a hotel full of supposed serious pool players.

As I said, I have no idea why this is. Do pool players find it boring to watch pros play? I sure don't. Are we generally, as a population, nits and cheapskates? I'd like to not think so but...then what's the reason? I'm not smart enough to figure it out.

I just think the success of professional pool will ultimately depend on its ability to generate significant attendance. If the attendance numbers are there then and only then perhaps sponsors, TV, and the Olympics will follow. These three don't really care how many people play the game. They are way more interested in how many watch it.

Holding a pay for entrance professional tournament in the middle of the largest league tournament is not the way to go.

The way to go is to hold this tournament right in the CENTER of the amateur event and give away the entry to all league members.

Why?

Because league members have places to be, matches to play, people to party with, Vegas to enjoy.

So let them come when they can and that will keep the stands full. Then play the finals of the league tournaments at the same time as the pro events - kind of like boxing but where the main event is the professional finals.

I want to know why in 30 years there has never been any televised finals of the league events?????

Can anyone think of much that's more exciting in pool than seeing a team of amateurs who have outlasted 700 teams celebrating their victory? Imagine the pressure?

This is where the PRO TOUR and the AMATEUR LEAGUES come together.

Imagine if the best amateurs were granted pro cards for winning their respective events? With a ceremony and all.

Imagine if there were qualifiers at these league events?

Imagine........


These are ALL THINGS that are possible NOW and within our means.

Trent
03-13-2010, 05:47 AM
I want to know why in 30 years there has never been any televised finals of the league events?????

Can anyone think of much that's more exciting in pool than seeing a team of amateurs who have outlasted 700 teams celebrating their victory? Imagine the pressure?

This is where the PRO TOUR and the AMATEUR LEAGUES come together.

Imagine if the best amateurs were granted pro cards for winning their respective events? With a ceremony and all.

Imagine if there were qualifiers at these league events?

Imagine........


These are ALL THINGS that are possible NOW and within our means.

i do think this is a good idea mybe we could get it started with a stream from TAR or one of the other many people capable of doing this, but doesnt the APA have a tournamnet that id you win you get to play in a pro event?

JB Cases
03-13-2010, 06:02 AM
I'd sincerely hope that Mark has plans to webcast the League Finals this year. I'd like to see them produce something that can be broadcast on TV - even if it's not live.

How cool would that be to see the BCA leagues on reruns all year long at 3am on ESPN?

I mean to my mind the picture of 150 tables set up in a giant ballroom is one of the best images in pool.

If someone, anyone could capture the drama and excitement of this tournament it would be awesome.

This is where pool is the ANTI-POKER.

This is where people leave their jobs for a week, travel around the world, and COMPETE hard to be the best.

There is so much compelling content present in the league tournaments and NO ONE is capitalizing on it.

NO ONE.

Majic
03-13-2010, 06:06 AM
Why would league members willingly donate to a pro tour? Most league members could care less about pros and actually don't even know the names of any pros, with exception of the few women that are promoting APA. I personally view this strategy as a nice try. Why don't they go after corporate sponsorship like the other sports? The pros should be willing to organize and help themselves instead of asking the amateurs to pay for evreything.

macguy
03-13-2010, 06:26 AM
so all you league people out there would you pay a extra 2 dollars on your sanction fees to help sponser the pro tour???

Just 2 dollars??? so lets say that every league APA BCA and VNEA and every other league all up their sanction fees 2 dollars would you be upset??? i dought it, especially if it went to the pros can you imagine how much more money would be in pool!!

lets say theres 200,000 league players out there just a number off the top of my head ok dont go hitting me with stats or anything im just talking here ok. anyways that would produce 400,000 dollars for the pro tour and help sponser the game!!

Dee Adkins and I were yalking about this today and it really makes since! so lets here it

would you pay extra money to sponser the pros ????

if no why?

and who do we need to talk to, in order to get this done?

What tour? You have a cart and horse thing here or chicken and egg thing. Taking yur idea though how about a pool room assosiation who give say $200.00 a year to the promotion of the sport. I don't know how many pool rooms there are nation wide but it has to be a lot. You have to promote the tournaments first then the players will follow. You put on say 4 tournaments a year with $500,000 in prize money and the players will come and have no problem getting sponsors.

Neil
03-13-2010, 07:16 AM
.............

CocoboloCowboy
03-13-2010, 07:28 AM
Why would league members willingly donate to a pro tour? Most league members could care less about pros and actually don't even know the names of any pros, with exception of the few women that are promoting APA. I personally view this strategy as a nice try. Why don't they go after corporate sponsorship like the other sports? The pros should be willing to organize and help themselves instead of asking the amateurs to pay for evreything.

Well said.

Maniac
03-13-2010, 07:46 AM
its just frustrating hearing people Nit up over a couple dollars.

So, I guess I'm a "Nit" now 'cause I don't wanna help fund a "pro" tour :rolleyes:??? Gosh Trent, you don't even know me and you've already put unsaid words in my mouth and called me a name. You just don't like me at all, do you :D:D:D???


On a more serious note, If you were to meet me you would enjoy my company. I'm very generous when it comes time to buy a round or two (or three) :thumbup:. I have the respect and friendship of any and everybody I come into contact with through poolplaying. I'm very easygoing and consider myself to be a funny guy. But you gotta understand, it's okay for me to not want to help support a "pro" pool tour. That's not deserving of name-calling. I don't go to Cowboy, Rangers, Mavericks, or Stars games either. In other words, I don't support professional ANYTHING. If I get the urge to go see a good game somewhere, I seek out the High School athletes and watch them. If people want to support a cause they love, whether it be $2 or 2 million dollars, them let them do so. Just don't force me to pay for it if I don't have/want to. I like to decide where my "hard-earned" money goes, even if it's two lousy bucks. I don't need anyone making that decision for me. Thanks.

Shoot well and enjoy the game, my friend!!!

Maniac

Trent
03-13-2010, 08:26 AM
[QUOTE=Maniac;2319115]So, I guess I'm a "Nit" now 'cause I don't wanna help fund a "pro" tour :rolleyes:??? Gosh Trent, you don't even know me and you've already put unsaid words in my mouth and called me a name. You just don't like me at all, do you :D:D:D???


On a more serious note, If you were to meet me you would enjoy my company. I'm very generous when it comes time to buy a round or two (or three) :thumbup:. I have the respect and friendship of any and everybody I come into contact with through poolplaying. I'm very easygoing and consider myself to be a funny guy. But you gotta understand, it's okay for me to not want to help support a "pro" pool tour. That's not deserving of name-calling. I don't go to Cowboy, Rangers, Mavericks, or Stars games either. In other words, I don't support professional ANYTHING. If I get the urge to go see a good game somewhere, I seek out the High School athletes and watch them. If people want to support a cause they love, whether it be $2 or 2 million dollars, them let them do so. Just don't force me to pay for it if I don't have/want to. I like to decide where my "hard-earned" money goes, even if it's two lousy bucks. I don't need anyone making that decision for me. Thanks.

Shoot well and enjoy the game, my friend!!!

Maniac[/QUOte/]

that wasnt directed right at you but everyone that would get upset over spending a dollar.

other sports their amatuers pay into the pros somehow and thats how it gets bigger look at golf you cant buy things that arent PGA sanctioned or play on courses that arent, and the amatuer tour actually pays something it pays to be in the sport. i would just like to see the sport grow is all and when a bunch of us were talking in the pool room the other day it sounded like a great idea but thats all it was a idea.

im sorry i even posted this thread now.

and maniac im sure your a great guy and i have nothing against you at all and i apoligize again for flying off the handle, maybe we can each buy 3 rounds sometime in the future :thumbup:


so please no more PM's everyone im tired of reading how im a idiot and a sucker to believe that pool could ever grow.:(

thanks have a good day

Maniac
03-13-2010, 08:49 AM
maniac im sure your a great guy and i have nothing against you at all and i apoligize again for flying off the handle, maybe we can each buy 3 rounds sometime in the future :thumbup:


so please no more PM's everyone im tired of reading how im a idiot and a sucker to believe that pool could ever grow.:(




Just remember my friend, I've got the first round :thumbup:!!!


And a disclaimer here: I was NOT one of the people who PM'ed Trent calling him a sucker and an idiot. I do not condone this type of behavior at all.

Trent, FWIW, it is not a bad thread you started and you should not regret starting it. Everyone, and I mean all people great and small have a right to their opinion. You gave yours. I respected yours and had a different view. No one has the right to s*#t on you cause you felt as strongly as you do about an issue. Don't sweat it bro'! It'll all come out in the wash!!!

Maniac

DogsPlayingPool
03-13-2010, 09:10 AM
Holding a pay for entrance professional tournament in the middle of the largest league tournament is not the way to go.

The way to go is to hold this tournament right in the CENTER of the amateur event and give away the entry to all league members.

Why?

Because league members have places to be, matches to play, people to party with, Vegas to enjoy.

So let them come when they can and that will keep the stands full. Then play the finals of the league tournaments at the same time as the pro events - kind of like boxing but where the main event is the professional finals.

I want to know why in 30 years there has never been any televised finals of the league events?????

Can anyone think of much that's more exciting in pool than seeing a team of amateurs who have outlasted 700 teams celebrating their victory? Imagine the pressure?

This is where the PRO TOUR and the AMATEUR LEAGUES come together.

Imagine if the best amateurs were granted pro cards for winning their respective events? With a ceremony and all.

Imagine if there were qualifiers at these league events?

Imagine........


These are ALL THINGS that are possible NOW and within our means.

Thanks for responding to my post, I know you've had your ear to the ground more than most about this and I appreciate your thoughts. BTW, I'm not insisting that the way the event was done is a good business model, but simply pointing out that the event was taking place in a way that made it as convenient as possible for thousands of so called "serious" pool players to attend.

But I'm not sure I follow you on what is so different about the pros being in the middle of the league event rather than just down the hall. It's still pretty darn convenient, more so down the hall because they had seating for spectators that didn't exist at the league event.

Secondly, you stated the reason why the pro tournament should be given away is: "Because league members have places to be, matches to play, people to party with, Vegas to enjoy. So let them come when they can and that will keep the stands full." I'm not sure why any of these are reasons it should be free. Any of these players could come when they can, an all day pass was available so you could go out and in as you wished. As for having matches to play, the event was right down the hall. You had to go down the hall to use the bathrooms, for gosh sakes. Let's face it, there is often a lot of down time between matches. People go back to their rooms (even at other hotels) between matches. So, if people didn't attend because they had matches to play, places to go and people to see - it shouldn't matter if the pro event is free or not.

So, while I don't agree that any of your reasons explain why the event SHOULD be free, I do agree with you that if it was free many more players probably would have attended. But I think the reason this is the case is simple - pool players aren't willing to pay to watch the pro game. It's not because they have other things to do. If it's free they will probably go, but they aren't willing to pay for it in large enough numbers to generate income for a tour and make the game attractive to sponsors, television, and the Olympics. And this is all I was getting at in the first place - pool players,as an overall population, do not support the professional game.

So, if the reason to make it free to watch is to generate an audience then that eliminates one main source of income from the equation that a tour needs to make it until (and this is a big "IF" in any case) television and sponsors show an interest in throwing money at it.

accustatsfan
03-13-2010, 10:33 AM
The reason people are broke all the time is because they spend money without a clue and wonder why there isn't anything left. Its not the economy its wasted spending (other than the govt nobody can sustain it and they won't eventually either). some people succeed in all states of economy and its not because of "luck".

I see this extra dollars idea as the "bite" on a larger scale until proven otherwise. If I spend money "what's in it for me" (WIIFM) is always on my mind.

If my donation has the pros giving exhibitions or clinics its worth it. I haven't experienced it, but doesn't the WPBA make it a requirement to send its members throughout a local area whenever they have a tournament.

Lots of league members do spend the "extra" dollars a session. The money goes to supporting the host place by buying something so the owner has incentive to have you back.

CreeDo
03-13-2010, 11:37 AM
It seems pretty simple, just put up a checkbox on the paperwork. "Would you like to donate an extra $2 to help create a pro tour?" ...you check yes and that's that.

The main complaint here seems to be that people are forced into it. So don't force them.
Voluntary won't create as much money as forced, but it will still create money.