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View Full Version : Magic Rack owners could you run a simple test


Vahmurka
03-12-2010, 07:28 PM
129406
Set two balls (1-10 in example) so that they either rest in template holes or just on its surface. Hit the cue ball with deep draw as shown (as if you want to get it back to the middle of the table or even further). You can use given position or mirrored, doesn't matter.

a) did the template (Magic Rack) move in any fashion?
b) did one of the balls (or both) resting on it move?

Please take at least five shots for better results. Also mention if you tested a new, transparent version or previous, paper version.

Bambu
03-13-2010, 10:06 AM
129406
Set two balls (1-10 in example) so that they either rest in template holes or just on its surface. Hit the cue ball with deep draw as shown (as if you want to get it back to the middle of the table or even further). You can use given position or mirrored, doesn't matter.

a) did the template (Magic Rack) move in any fashion?
b) did one of the balls (or both) resting on it move?

Please take at least five shots for better results. Also mention if you tested a new, transparent version or previous, paper version.

I didnt take the test, but I am confident the rack could interfere with game play. What I do is remove the rack after the break. 98% of the time, only the 9 ball remains within the rack. The other 2% of the time, its easy enough to replace the balls where they sat on the template. This hasnt happened to me yet, but I'm sure that once in a great while there may be a strange cluster....one that might effect the outcome of a run out. But, you can discuss what the layout should look like before removing the template. I would rather deal with that, than play with the rack on the table.

Johnnyt
03-13-2010, 10:11 AM
just buy one and test it yourself. There only $10. Johnnyt

hangemhigh
03-13-2010, 10:14 AM
129406
Set two balls (1-10 in example) so that they either rest in template holes or just on its surface. Hit the cue ball with deep draw as shown (as if you want to get it back to the middle of the table or even further). You can use given position or mirrored, doesn't matter.

a) did the template (Magic Rack) move in any fashion?
b) did one of the balls (or both) resting on it move?

Please take at least five shots for better results. Also mention if you tested a new, transparent version or previous, paper version.

You take the rack off the table after the break.

ctyhntr
03-13-2010, 11:02 AM
That makes sense if there were no balls sitting on the rack. In the black swan situation Varmulka created, 1 or more balls are still sitting on the rack. He wants others to test his hypothesis.

You take the rack off the table after the break.

mooseman
03-13-2010, 11:07 AM
While everyone is coming up with great observations, it is a simple request. Why doesn't someone with a Magic Rack just try it and give the results? If someone wants to send me a Magic Rack and a table I'll take care of the request.......:grin::grin::grin:

hangemhigh
03-13-2010, 11:19 AM
That makes sense if there were no balls sitting on the rack. In the black swan situation Varmulka created, 1 or more balls are still sitting on the rack. He wants others to test his hypothesis.

It doesn't matter, you respot the balls after you break. You don't leave the MBR on the table after the break.

Vahmurka
03-13-2010, 11:26 AM
You take the rack off the table after the break.yes, but that's when no ball lies on it
just buy one and test it yourself.I already did my own test, now just want to hear the others. I made one myself based on a hole-punched template provided by Bob Jewett. First just from a sheet of paper, then some transparent plastic (maybe it is called mylar over there like Bob once suggested, I actually made two - one being almost of paper thickness, another one slightly thicker).

I didnt take the test, but I am confident the rack could interfere with game play. What I do is remove the rack after the break. 98% of the time, only the 9 ball remains within the rack. The other 2% of the time, its easy enough to replace the balls where they sat on the template.that's what I'm certain about and the reason I'm asking for a test from others. I suppose regardless of material used (mine is DIY rack) the results should be similar, but I would like to see if I'm right or wrong here.

Yes racking is easy and always gives a tight rack. That's a big plus, either on brand new cloth or worn out one. In 9-Ball, corner ball always goes in and usually 1 in the side on a good head-on hit. But it is absolutely important to remove it right after the break. And that is what should be made compulsory IMO and probably written on the package as an instruction.
You are correct that in 9-Ball it is almost never an issue. 10-Ball most probably also, though the rack disperses differently from a diamond and more balls tend to stay in racking area. In some other thread I already posted that Magic Rack could be considered for 9-Ball and 10-Ball. But there is a full rack offered now and I doubt about it being as useful. Just because in 14.1, 8-Ball, 1-Pocket the balls will always stay on the rack, on usually more than one (8-Ball less likely but still).
Marking balls is what came to my mind also, and it's not a problem with only one ball resting on a rack. But to mark two balls one should have two ball markers because it is impossible to remove them one by one, must do it simultaneously.
I'm just trying to make a survey to serve the game needs. It could be great if all that info could be taken into consideration and given to the customers so that they know what to deal with and how to do it. Magic Rack is the way to go for all around practice, and might be used for tournament play but only at 9-Ball or 10-Ball events - that's what I came up with.

I was still pretty amazed how the rack behaves on a shot I provide, would like to see what reaction others report.

Hank
03-13-2010, 12:45 PM
VAHMURKA,just ran some test,interesting results.,1.On a draw shot follow through the shaft hit the rack a # of times.Sometimes the balls moved.With only one ball on the rack,but not on the hole,the ball moved sometimes.When drawing[sometimes] I THINK you lose some of the back spin because of slight buoncing of the c/b.My self and others all agree that you get tight rack,break the balls better,[it has that crisp sound]Would have no problem playing with it,everyone gets the same rack.ONLY time will tell.I LOVE IT :grin: >>HANK<<

Vahmurka
03-13-2010, 02:31 PM
thanks for the feedback Hank.
On a draw shot follow through the shaft hit the rack a # of times.this (follow-through on a draw shot) also can be an issue if a cue ball is close to a template, but that was not primary thing which drew my attention. If anybody hits the rack with their cue as well during a "test" I suggest you move the cue ball a bit backwards until you don't.
What amazed me was rack movement due to heavy friction a cue ball has when it moves forward with strong backspin. Literally, when crossing the rack as pictured, cue ball friction lifts it which causes some "wave" style movement. All this happens over a short period of time but the rack evidently goes in the air and back flat on playing surface. Sometimes such movement caused the balls roll. IMO, just another proof that it has to be removed right after the break, nothing more, nothing less.

Guerra Cues
03-13-2010, 02:38 PM
thanks for the feedback Hank.
this (follow-through on a draw shot) also can be an issue if a cue ball is close to a template, but that was not primary thing which drew my attention. If anybody hits the rack with their cue as well during a "test" I suggest you move the cue ball a bit backwards until you don't.
What amazed me was rack movement due to heavy friction a cue ball has when it moves forward with strong backspin. Literally, when crossing the rack as pictured, cue ball friction lifts it which causes some "wave" style movement. All this happens over a short period of time but the rack evidently goes in the air and back flat on playing surface. Sometimes such movement caused the balls roll. IMO, just another proof that it has to be removed right after the break, nothing more, nothing less.

Mr,
You do not have the new rack, therefore your assumptions and tests do not make to much sense.
Anybody that got the racks make sure you remove the protective film on both sides of the rack, it makes a major difference.

hangemhigh
03-13-2010, 08:10 PM
[QUOTE=Vahmurka;2319421]yes, but that's when no ball lies on it



No, that is after the break. You can remove as many balls as come to rest on the rack after the break. I have removed 2 balls a couple of times without a hitch.

As far as 1-pocket and 14-1, I see no advantage in using the MBR, but it works better than any other rack for 10, 9, and 8 ball for me. Because I don't leave the rack on the table after the break, my play is not affected.

Vahmurka
03-14-2010, 08:01 AM
As far as 1-pocket and 14-1, I see no advantage in using the MBR

On the contrary, I would love it used for 14.1. Having a tight rack is vital for 14.1, IMO it's even more important than in 8-9-10-Ball because you can't always go into the pack at full speed. And any slight gap between the balls affects the outcome. 14.1 is my game of choice so I will continue testing my template for this game.

You can remove as many balls as come to rest on the rack after the break.
I don't know if you have followed other threads about MBR but I linked to the situation which happened at Philippines Open 10-Ball when the balls were on the template after the break and it stayed on the table, and later influenced the ball position. I suppose the referees didn't remove the rack because they were not prepared to the fact such situation could happen. And I would prefer everyone to be informed what to do and ready to act properly.

I have removed 2 balls a couple of times without a hitch.

Could you please describe how did you cope with it? I can't figure out how to deal with any number over 2 without too much hassle. I'm talking about tournament conditions; when it is a friendly game of course you can just lift a ball or two and place them back approximately where they were.

You do not have the new rack, therefore your assumptions and tests do not make to much sense.

And don't you think that's the very reason I ask those who own it to perform a test? You do have it, so why don't you report your result? If I were you I would have done it first hand.
The way you react makes me think you feel my initiative threatens your sales. Let me assure you like I did earlier that's not my mission. I have never said MBR fails to function as it should in regard with racking tight. I just want to examine the new product so that we could discover any potential drawbacks it has rather than highlighting only advantages it provides. If anyone agrees MBR should be removed from the table right after the break - that is what should be written down as directions for the users. That's what any referee should be aware of and do if MBR is used at tournaments. So far I see you miss every point I make, and I sincerely hope you could look at it independently. For the benefit of the game, I say.
If people are not curious to know and not interested, okay, I can live with that.

Jason Robichaud
03-14-2010, 09:57 AM
Best way to avoid this is don't place the balls like that after the break. I have probably 500 games on it and that hasn't happen yet (two balls froze on the rack)

I find it strange that people will lift a ball to clean a hair, but feel its wrong to lift a ball and remove a rack.

bell
03-14-2010, 04:43 PM
Where can I buy the dang thing?