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sammspocket
03-15-2010, 02:47 PM
This weekend I had an opponent admit the following to me after our match, "You missed a foul that cost you the match." It was as though he was bragging about it.

"Excuse me?" I responded.

"Yeah, I fouled and you didn't even call it," he says.

"Obviously I didn't see it and assumed you were honest. And you're proud of this?" I asked.

"I stood up and walked around the table. I gave you a chance to say something," he boasted.

Wow... Seriously? Am I supposed to assume that getting up and walking around the table means that it's ball in hand for me? He was facing me and must've double-hit the cue ball. If it hardly moves, how can I see that?

I can honestly say that I have never knowingly fouled and not called it on myself. My conscience would never let me get away with it.

Big Perm
03-15-2010, 02:50 PM
This weekend I had an opponent admit the following to me after our match, "You missed a foul that cost you the match." It was as though he was bragging about it.

"Excuse me?" I responded.

"Yeah, I fouled and you didn't even call it," he says.

"Obviously I didn't see it and assumed you were honest. And you're proud of this?" I asked.

"I stood up and walked around the table. I gave you a chance to say something," he boasted.

Wow... Seriously? Am I supposed to assume that getting up and walking around the table means that it's ball in hand for me? He was facing me and must've double-hit the cue ball. If it hardly moves, how can I see that?

I can honestly say that I have never knowingly fouled and not called it on myself. My conscience would never let me get away with it.


Agreed....

Some people think cheating is a badge of honor.....I don't get it.....guess I'm just a sucker :p

GoTulane
03-15-2010, 02:59 PM
Then it isn't worth winning.

I call everything on myself when I play, because that is how I am. No matter what the stakes, or importance of the game, you gotta play with integrity.

Wish more people in the world did this more often in pool, and especially in life.

Michael

Neil
03-15-2010, 03:08 PM
..............

theyonger
03-15-2010, 03:20 PM
I always call my own fouls!
Im scared if i dont the guy will see and just not say anything and put me outside and rape me or something LOL...

akaTrigger
03-15-2010, 03:24 PM
I have called fouls on myself several times. However, if there is a ref present watching the match, I'm not saying anything. That is then his job, not mine. That is exactly why he is there.

I've seen people tell the ref he was wrong about his "good hit" call and tell him it was actually a foul!

Fobstarr
03-15-2010, 03:26 PM
I personally hand the cue ball over to my opponent if they don't notice my foul. But there are times when I'm not sure if i double hit the cue or not. It might feel like a double hit but it also feels like a miscue (for shots where the object ball is fairly close to the cue ball.) In those situations, what do you do?

Neil
03-15-2010, 03:32 PM
...............

Neil
03-15-2010, 03:34 PM
.............

theyonger
03-15-2010, 03:35 PM
I personally hand the cue ball over to my opponent if they don't notice my foul. But there are times when I'm not sure if i double hit the cue or not. It might feel like a double hit but it also feels like a miscue (for shots where the object ball is fairly close to the cue ball.) In those situations, what do you do?

If its like SUPER SUPER unsure id ask my opponent if he thought it was good.
Otherwise if i was a little onesided i would just wait for him to call it himself

Exsanguinating
03-15-2010, 03:36 PM
First of all, what an A$$ and I'm sorry that happened to such a good person <3

I will always call a foul on myself... and I expect my opponents to do the same, although, I am not naive and I know this doesn't always happen. I want to win because I worked hard for it, put in the effort and left my heart on the table... not because my opponent *didn't see a foul that I made*. That to me is tacky and shows me a lack of their own self respect and self confidence that they couldn't have beaten me fair and square.

ex: During a tourney... there was a discrepancy that one of my team mates didn't call a foul, that her opponent was SURE she made. Everyone watching the match saw no foul made. So the opponent was now bitter. When it came time for me to play that opponent, with everyone watching, she "blatantly" fouled... and didn't call it. What the Cuss??!!?!
Knowing the ref wouldn't do anything, cause he wasn't there, she refused to even talk to him stating in a *know it all tone*, "Oh, I know what happens." Referring to the fact that I was going to have to suck it up and shoot anyway. As furious as I was, I just sarcastically commented (loud enough for everyone to hear) "If that's how you got to play to win, then that's how you gotta play to win!" and continued the match... I ended up losing... Later we had to play that team again. She broke and made nothing... I proceeded to run out to the eight ball, which she then got up and scooped the eight ball out of line with her cue and offered her hand for a handshake...
(Guilty conscious gets the best of the cheaters too...)

TX Poolnut
03-15-2010, 03:39 PM
I call fouls on myself.

No biggie.

Tom In Cincy
03-15-2010, 04:04 PM
I call fouls on myself and my opponents when they commit an infraction of the rules.

I think it is great that players call fouls on themselves. Super.. great amount of sportsmanship and a true indication of a great competitor.

If you really want to learn the rules, take a Referee class with qualified teachers and get qualified to make the correct calls.

Just because you read or briefly skimmed over a league handout or remembered what someone said the rules were 10-15 years ago, doesn't mean you are making the correct call.

You kinda lose your integrity if you make a bonehead call against yourself and you were WRONG.

afss
03-15-2010, 04:43 PM
Wow.. I am suprised myself. Pool to me is as much a personal win as it is a victory over my opponent. If i knowingly screwed up i can't and wouldn't continue to play that turn.

The guys i play with, we don't even call shots anymore, we all know what each other is going to try and if we don't make it the way we intended we default that turn. Continueing to playing after a foul is no diferent than lying or not sticking to your word. To me there is no higher value than the value of my word. Everyone has to be able to live with their personal code.

If your code includes cheating to win and or you need to cheat to win........ why bother playing????

SpiderWebComm
03-15-2010, 04:46 PM
I'd rather lose than be caught doing that. That stays with you for life when people see that you cheat. Have I ever fouled and not said something? Sure--- but I didn't know I fouled. I've honestly never fouled (and known it) without giving up the table.

pooltchr
03-15-2010, 04:59 PM
I don't know which is worse, the situation described in the first post, or when you see your opponent make an obvious bad hit, and when you ask them about it, they look you straight in the eye and claim it was a good hit. We both know they are lying.

I see absolutely no satisfaction in winning, if you had to cheat to do it!

Steve

VonRhett
03-15-2010, 05:07 PM
I ALWAYS call my fouls, whether my opponent is watching or not is irrelevant.

I don't need the karma that goes with cheating!

-von

Android
03-15-2010, 05:12 PM
I always call fouls on myself.
1st - Because it is the right thing to do, period.
2nd - If you let your opponent call your fouls and they make a mistake how can you argue?? You conceded that right by having them call your fouls.

Just my 2 cents.

Andy

Tennesseejoe
03-15-2010, 05:12 PM
Determining who calls the fouls is something I do before the match. Some like to play call you own and others like to have the opponent call the foul.

In the case of playing One Pocket, I want to call the fouls on my opponent and I don't want him to call them on himself. It can be a game winning advantage for him to call then on himself.

dabarbr
03-15-2010, 05:22 PM
I've seen people tell the ref he was wrong about his "good hit" call and tell him it was actually a foul!

Not too long I called the ref over to look at a hit that my opponent was shooting. It was a kick and I knew he was going to kick soft as to not to disturb the balls. It was one of those shots where the object ball is very close to the rail and the hit could be rail first or ball first.

The ref came over and called a bad hit but I knew he called it wrong with no doubt in my mind. When the ref left I told my opponent that I was not going to take ball in hand (which would have won the game for me). I waited for the ref to leave because I didn't want to embarrass him for missing that call. I believe he actually thought that he did see a foul but I knew it wasn't a foul. Karma is what it's all about.

sammspocket
03-15-2010, 05:53 PM
Thanks, everyone. Yeah, that guy was a knucklehead.

I even left out the part where he yelled, "GET IN THERE!" when I accidentally knocked in an early 8 going for a breakout. That's what started the whole thing. He didn't like it when I told him I felt it was tacky to cheer for that stuff. That's a whole 'nother thread in and of its own.

Oh well, there's always one in every tournament.

GG11
03-15-2010, 06:17 PM
Oliver Ortmann is my hero for what he did at the Challenge of Champions ... not many would call a foul on themselves knowing full well that it's a $50K test of their integrity.

If only pool had more like him!

Samm, I like your respond to said D-bag!

smoooothstroke
03-15-2010, 06:25 PM
If I am gambling I will allways call the foul.

In a tournament I will not go out of my way to babysit some1 who is not paying attention.This doesn't mean that I will try to shield the foul or deny it if asked but if it is a close call im not going to try to explain to some1 who may not have any idea what im talking about.

Last week during league I played safe on a frozen ball.First I checkd to see if it was frozen,my oponent didn't check or ask me.Since it was frozen I decided to play the safe in a way that the CB would touch the rail after the OB.I did not however execute the shot properly and only hit the frozen OB but no rail for the CB.I did not pick up the CB,my oponent went ahead and kicked at his ball giving me ball in hand wich I used to win the game.After league was finished I let him know that the ball was frozen and that he should have checked or asked me.

Johnnyt
03-15-2010, 06:30 PM
I have always called a foul on myself even if the guy I'm playing doesn't say anything, and most of my games were for money. Funny how I can/could be honest in a pool game, but with other things years ago...not so much. Johnnyt

Holly
03-15-2010, 06:33 PM
I was a team captain one particular season years ago...now just as an FYI, I've played in 3 of the major leagues in the U.S and will not say which one this particular team was affiliated.

So...I had a team mate knowlingly commit a double hit. The team mate knew it and the opponant was aware, but was a shy person and not inclined to stand up for themselves.

The oppontant looked at me, asked rather meekly "was it a good hit". I said no, it is ball in hand to you. Oh man my team mate was angry at me. I told the team mate that I could not and would not back an obvious attempt to play dirty.

To this day I would rather lose and lose with dignity and honesty that win in a souless manner.

By the way, the team mate quit the team...and really wasn't missed that much.

:) peace and thanks for sharing Samm.

PoolBum
03-15-2010, 06:55 PM
Oh well, there's always one in every tournament.

One? Oh lord I wish I could find a tournament with only one of those guys in it! :D

Grilled Cheese
03-15-2010, 06:57 PM
I always call my own fouls. I never let it be a question, nor do I like to be asked if I fouled. Therefore, I preempt it and call my own fouls. That's proper sportsmanship.

However, if I'm playing a scumbag who never calls his/her own fouls and always puts it on me to ask, I do two things after giving them the benefit of the doubt the first and second time they do it (honest mistake).

1. I no longer ask them if they fouled, I take ball in hand since it's my right to. This is asserting my position on the matter by action, rather than words, debate or argument. It also sends a message that I don't care what they have to say on the matter. This essentially secures my authority over the rulings in the game of which I have a right to.

I shouldn't be burdened with having to ask..which in a way sort of mutates into begging for BIH. Which then puts me in the inferior position - as if their say is what determines if it is a foul or not, not mine.

2. I no longer call fouls on myself. Just as they do, I put it on them to ask. If they just take BIH, that's fine as long as it really was a foul.

Basically, the Golden Rule.


I play pool for fun. Therefore, I loathe situations like these. Any kind of lack of total integrity or sportsmanship makes me not want to play that person again. I don't owe anyone a game. It's both of our privilege to play one another. That's how I see it. Either we will meet as gentlemen and play with the utmost in respect and sportsmanship, or I'm not interested.

Exsanguinating
03-15-2010, 07:09 PM
[QUOTE=Holly;2323072]

I told the team mate that I could not and would not back an obvious attempt to play dirty.

To this day I would rather lose and lose with dignity and honesty that win in a souless manner.

and this is why I miss you :lovies:

DangerousDave
03-15-2010, 07:18 PM
You should always call fouls on yourself, whether anyone sees or not. This is what's expected in snooker, where touching any ball is a foul and often difficult to detect for anyone other than the player at the table.

There's a video on YouTube somewhere of one the the World Championship finals between Stephen Hendry and Jimmy White. Jimmy misses the ball on, and the referee declares a "free ball". For anyone unfamiliar with the rule, this allows Hendry to play any ball on the table as the ball on (e.g. a colour in place of a red, counting 1 point), as he is unable to hit both edges of the red after Jimmy's miss.

This rule is in place so that the incoming player is not at a disadvantage after a foul, and it often leads to an easy opening shot.

Hendry comes to the table and doesn't think it is a free ball, so he asks the referee to check again. Playing for over 100,000, in the final of the biggest event in the game, he challenges a favourable decision made by the referee. The referee checks again and sees that it is actually not a free ball, reducing Hendry's options at the table.

Beyond calling fouls on yourself, if a call goes your way and it shouldn't have - speak up. Anything less is just dishonest.

twal
03-15-2010, 07:26 PM
If a guy is being a jerk and I have no respect for them then, no I would not offer up ball in hand. It really is the duty of the player you are playing to watch the game. Now if it is an average player and the foul is pretty obvious to me, I would probably call it.
I would never lie about a hit that I thought was a foul when asked.
Here is a different scinerio. 8 Ball. My team mate is playing league last week. It came down to only a couple of balls left for each player. Toward the end a couple of safeties back and forth. My team mate goes for safe and doen't hit it hard enough and fails to draw a rail.
Disgusted with himself he turns away from the table and returns to his seat. His opponent comes to the table and shoots very quickly. He never looked or even came close to asking if it was a foul. So should my team mate feel bad? I say no.
It is my guess that this is not the first foul you have missed. No need to feel bad about it. I am sure I have missed a few myself. I do know however, if it is close I would ask. I don't think any player I have ever played has lied to me.

ShootingArts
03-15-2010, 07:27 PM
After reading three pages of messages I have to say that I am closest to Bola Ocho in how I play. I originally assume I am playing with a gentleman or lady and call all of my fouls. I'll even go so far as to call a foul if I'm legitimately not sure if it was a foul or not on some of them that are too close to call on my own shots. This is how I enjoy playing pool.

However as folks have often read in my posts, I meet everyone halfway or a little more. Don't call your fouls, I am not gonna call mine. Slug rack me? Wait until you hit one I racked when it counts sucker! Same thing with breaking up tied up balls with the left hand, pocketing balls with the left hand, moving pennies in the middle of a game during a match, on and on. When I gambled on a pool table to pay the bills I couldn't pick and choose who I gambled with and I played by whatever rules or lack of rules they played by.

Now the only time I play with blatant cheaters is when I draw one in a tournament or the first time I play them but there isn't one person in a hundred that has played pool for years and hasn't fouled and failed to call it. If someone commits an obvious foul and doesn't call it on themselves I'll do the same. If the opponent is the one supposed to call fouls that puts me in the referee's position and if I have to stand in front of a shot to see it clearly, tough. A ref would be there and that is where I am going to be. Don't call fouls on yourself and I'll stand wherever I please regardless of who is supposed to call it. I also simply take ball in hand when I deserve it, no debate, no questions asked. I give the other player the benefit of the doubt but when there is no doubt . . .

Much easier on everyone to play a gentleman's game and everyone call their own fouls. That is how I much prefer to play. Yesterday an opponent got down and was obviously fixing to shoot a ball out of sequence playing nine ball. I could have let him do it, I warned him. I play scrupulously honestly and even go the extra mile unless the other person pulls a move that it is impossible for them not to be aware of. When they deliberately cheat, there is more than one game going on! Even if I don't cheat I'll run them ragged making them think I am going to. :D :D :D

Hu

I always call my own fouls. I never let it be a question, nor do I like to be asked if I fouled. Therefore, I preempt it and call my own fouls. That's proper sportsmanship.

However, if I'm playing a scumbag who never calls his/her own fouls and always puts it on me to ask, I do two things after giving them the benefit of the doubt the first and second time they do it (honest mistake).

1. I no longer ask them if they fouled, I take ball in hand since it's my right to. This is asserting my position on the matter by action, rather than words, debate or argument. It also sends a message that I don't care what they have to say on the matter. This essentially secures my authority over the rulings in the game of which I have a right to.

I shouldn't be burdened with having to ask..which in a way sort of mutates into begging for BIH. Which then puts me in the inferior position - as if their say is what determines if it is a foul or not, not mine.

2. I no longer call fouls on myself. Just as they do, I put it on them to ask. If they just take BIH, that's fine as long as it really was a foul.

Basically, the Golden Rule.


I play pool for fun. Therefore, I loathe situations like these. Any kind of lack of total integrity or sportsmanship makes me not want to play that person again. I don't owe anyone a game. It's both of our privilege to play one another. That's how I see it. Either we will meet as gentlemen and play with the utmost in respect and sportsmanship, or I'm not interested.

manwon
03-15-2010, 07:36 PM
This weekend I had an opponent admit the following to me after our match, "You missed a foul that cost you the match." It was as though he was bragging about it.

"Excuse me?" I responded.

"Yeah, I fouled and you didn't even call it," he says.

"Obviously I didn't see it and assumed you were honest. And you're proud of this?" I asked.

"I stood up and walked around the table. I gave you a chance to say something," he boasted.

Wow... Seriously? Am I supposed to assume that getting up and walking around the table means that it's ball in hand for me? He was facing me and must've double-hit the cue ball. If it hardly moves, how can I see that?

I can honestly say that I have never knowingly fouled and not called it on myself. My conscience would never let me get away with it.

The same people who do this, would steal you cue, your wallet or purse, and think nothing of doing so. They have no conscience that tells them when they are right or wrong, they may have born with this disorder or they may have learned this behavior either way they can't be trusted. Some may disagree with my comments because they think that I am taking things to far, and thats OK to each their own.

Take care.

mullyman
03-15-2010, 07:53 PM
The same people who do this, would steal you cue, your wallet or purse, and think nothing of doing so. They have no conscience that tells them when they are right or wrong, they may have born with this disorder or they may have learned this behavior either way they can't be trusted. Some may disagree with my comments because they think that I am taking things to far, and thats OK to each their own.

Take care.

I agree with ya, man. I call fouls on myself if I make them. Regardless of who I'm shooting with or the situation. I don't care if he's the biggest cheater in the world, I won't be brought down to that.
MULLY

kyo1128
03-15-2010, 08:30 PM
More and more I get into this site and this sports, more I see the similarities with Golf.
Stick, Ball, Hole, integrity, honesty, respect, sand baggers and cheaters....
Why pool gets bad rep, I still don't get. Especially after reading this thread.

cueandcushion
03-15-2010, 08:43 PM
Every single night I work, I hear people brag about their honesty and integrity. And almost every night I see them foul against someone they hate or are gambling with....and surprise....if the opponent is blocked, or in the bathroom or not paying attention...it ACCIDENTLY slips their mind. Every night I see it from good players and bad. Rich and poor. Doesnt matter. Its all about the "win" or the "money" to so many players. Enough players do this to make the sports seedy reputation stick like glue.

dabarbr
03-15-2010, 08:46 PM
Every single night I work, I hear people brag about their honesty and integrity. And almost every night I see them foul against someone they hate or are gambling with....and surprise....if the opponent is blocked, or in the bathroom or not paying attention...it ACCIDENTLY slips their mind. Every night I see it from good players and bad. Rich and poor. Doesnt matter. Its all about the "win" or the "money" to so many players. Enough players do this to make the sports seedy reputation stick like glue.

Unfortunately what you say is true too often.

Thunderball
03-15-2010, 08:56 PM
I call em on me...usually with some measure of genuine disdain for my lack of focus.

SlimShafty
03-15-2010, 09:33 PM
I always call fouls on myself, and most of the time I will even tell them, if say they are aiming at the wrong ball as long as I notice it fast enough.

If your in a tournament and just watching two others play you really can't say anything, but you know they know they fouled, sometimes they will look at you with that guilty look...like, did you see that.

Would any of you say anything if you were in a tournament and while watching two others play you clearly see a foul?

Secaucus Fats
03-15-2010, 09:53 PM
Oh sure now! EVERYBODY calls their fouls and hugs puppies! Yeah? Well what about when you're bugging playing with the money from your kid's piggybank, guts on fire from the mezcal, and crank making you feel fidgetier than a ferret, and you need that $20 soooo bad just so you can keep on partying with Rosita the TV hooker from the West Side?...I mean I'm just saying!.:D:D

CreeDo
03-15-2010, 11:38 PM
I call 'em on myself, but when I was first learning I sometimes didn't. Maybe it came from playing on barboxes with buddies who routinely slam the cue ball right away after tapping it with a practice stroke. Or maybe it's just the nature of kids to try to get away with stuff. These days I just don't do that kind of foul... no pushes (shoot away from the ball), no warmup stroke taps (just learn not to do this from experience). And I call close hits as I see 'em. It's easier to just play in a way that avoids subtle or debatable fouls.

shadow21
03-16-2010, 12:06 AM
Tournment and league rules are that a player does not have to call a foul on themselves it is the opponents job to pay attention. If the opponent is not sure if a hit will be leagal it is their job to have an impartial person watch the hit. The call is then up to that impartial person but if the opponent did not call for a ref and there is a despute rather the hit was legal or not it goes to shooters choice.

I give my fouls up 99 % of the time, but i have had occasions in tournments or gambling (normaly gambling) where my opponent has sharked me or done something. If he starts talking s*$%# and in the match I fouled while they where to busy running their mouth to there friends. I give them a long enough chance to call it, dont try to shield it and if he calls it i give it if he doesnt i'll shoot it.

gunzby
03-16-2010, 12:20 AM
I always call foul on myself. I can't stomach myself winning under false pretenses. I would much rather lose honorably than win as a liar.

donny mills
03-16-2010, 12:23 AM
Well I think you have to go with the flow. What I mean by that is this. I have a list of people in my mind (some top notch players) that I've seen foul and either not tell there opponent, or if there opponent didn't call a ref to watch the hit the player would say "I thought it was a good hit" knowing it wasn't.

So for me if I'm playing an honest gentleman I'll go out of my way to call a foul on myself. If I'm playing one of the players on my list then I will play just like they do.

Club Billiards
03-16-2010, 12:44 AM
I agree with most of the people on here and will call my own fouls, or hand my opponent ball in hand. However, I do feel that my opponent is responsible for paying attention when I'm shooting. We've all played the guy that's off doing his own this until it's his turn then always ask "was that a foul?" when he comes back to the table. LOL I won't lie in that situation, but when a guy is too busy texting or chatting, or whatever else, and obviously not interested in what is going on when I'm at the table, I don't feel obligated to give him the play-by-play when it's his turn to shoot.

cuesblues
03-16-2010, 12:46 AM
It's easier just to pickup the CB and hand it to your opponent.

I like to call a foul everytime the other player shoots.
Like no rail when he shoots the ball straight in, rotational foul when another ball drops especially the nine,
over spinning of the cueball, combination fouls, excessive use of the cushions, etc.

pt109
03-16-2010, 01:09 AM
I'm no saint but i try to play honest.On the other hand if a ball is
near a rail i just don't look when it's my shot...if he doesn't feel like checking i just shoot like it's not froze.Also i would never tell my
opponent he is shooting the wrong ball and i don't want be told
if i am.It's up to the shooter to be aware.
But i call my own fouls ,like touching the cue ball or not getting
a rail,even if i'm playing someone who doesn't.
If you allow your opponent to determine your morals then you
are allowing him to make the world a worse place instead of you
making it a better one.

Ratta
03-16-2010, 01:11 AM
Everyone has to decide this for himself. There are several *guys* which would take any advantage....however they could get it (no offense!)

If you re playing without a referee it s always difficult to decide- some fouls (with clothes for example) almost not able to *feel* for yourself and hard to see for your opponent. But in my opinion you KNOW BEFORE you re going down to your stroke, that it will be very close- in this case i always call a 3 rd person to have a look-so later no chance to get into trouble.

I for myself would call any fould i made accidently- no matter who my opponent is. In our team we have had a bad story long time ago because of such a situation. We were playing on a big tournament (8-ball) years ago- The single finals i won already- and after the final we played also the team-final. After all games we ended in a draw and so there was a penalty game to find the winner-
So i was choosen to play this decisive role......
my opponent breaked and ended on the his last solid ball. So i started my run and ended in this situation:
http://CueTable.com/P/?@1CbWl1HAfj1PRSP@

The audience were in front of me- so they for sure were not able to see if i would contact the 3-ball with my arm when trying to playing to place my bridge to shoot the eight ball. It was a very difficult position for a right-handed player. The referee stood a back behind me (right side) and didn t notice when i touched the 3 ball with my arm (i just felt it- think it didn t move a mm). So i went off the table and called that i made a fould- my enemy of course ran out and we lost the final.
After that a *team-mate* was so ****ing pissed that we got into really bad trouble- *you would never have called a fould if you wouldn t have won your single-final before* blablabla- he left our team after this tournament.....very sad in my opinion.
I would act everytime again like a did-and i did for sure everytime. I have to live with things like that- noone else. but i would never be angry to someone if he would try to play further if noone noticed it. That are just the rules.


Ingo

justadub
03-16-2010, 06:56 AM
I'm not so bold as to say I never have or never would, but I can't remember I time where I didn't. Not my style. But I don't gamble (on my pool playing, at least :o ) so it's easy for me to take the high road, with nothing on the line but who wins and who loses. I won't go so far as to point out my opponent aiming at the wrong ball, during league play. That's simply a dumb mistake, not a foul or any such, and goodness knows I've made enough dumb mistakes of my own over the years, and I learned from them. If we're playing casually, I point that out every time, with no hesitation.

Earlier this league session I took a shot where it wasn't clear whether or not it was a good shot or not. My opponent asked me, and I honestly didn't know. We didn't have an impartial party watch it, so I gave her ball in hand with no hesitation. She thought it wasn't good, and I couldn't tell. Boy was my team captain po'd.... :p I want to play straight up, so that's how I played it. (Turns out I came back in that game and should have won it for the match, were it not for a botched shot on my part. My doing "the right thing" didn't affect the match one bit. The team captain didn't say boo to me about it afterward. Nice to do the right thing at your own expense, and not have it do you in.) I also learned to get someone else to watch a shot if it has the potential to be questionable.

Cheaters never win, in the long run. They have to live with themselves at the end of the day. If they find cheating acceptable, they must have a pretty miserable life.

stljohnny
03-16-2010, 07:25 AM
It sounds like Samm's opponent was berating her for not catching it... either way it's incredibly dishonest. If you missed a foul, okay your mistake, but there's no point in rubbing it in. If he was generally trying to help you keep an eye out, he would've called the foul on himself - but obviously he was more interested in winning than being an honest player.

I call all fouls on myself. If I touch another ball trying to bridge, I stand up and let the opponent know and figure out what they want to do about it.

J.T.450r
03-16-2010, 07:36 AM
I always call fouls on myself unless there is a third party watching the hit then I trust their decision. If I know I fouled and did not call it I would feel guilty and probably lose the whole match not just the game.

zy112
03-16-2010, 07:48 AM
In a league like APA or what have you this is especially important because we dont have referees so you hope your opponent has the integrity to play by the rules and be honest.

Where I play league, bc of tables being close you sometimes have to watch the match from a decent distance. Not real far away, but far enough you cant see every little thing. Granted on the close ones you get a "ref", but what about safeties when they are slow rolling to the rail. Gotta take their word for it and hope its trustworthy. I always tell myself when I feel screwed, that if you gotta when an amatuer league match dishonestly its pretty sad.

mikeyfrost
03-16-2010, 07:51 AM
Where is that David Alcaide clip at? He called a foul on himself that was incredibly difficult to see at normal speed. Him and his partner were playing Daz and his partner in the world cup of pool this year. It was a hill-hill game and if Alcaide doesn't admit the foul his team wins. The ref didn't even see it. Very classy professional player.

ShootingArts
03-16-2010, 07:55 AM
Back when I first came to AZB there was a thread asking if you had ever done anything at all wrong on a pool table. Forty-two people posted before I did, each and every one proclaiming they had always been perfectly behaved on a pool table. As soon as I posted that I have indeed met folks halfway then people came forward stating they did too.

If you are stuck playing a cheater such as in a tournament or league and you don't play by their rules you are giving them a spot for being a cheater. I'm not going to play them outside of a structured event when I have to these days but I'm not spotting them a thing I don't have to either.

I recently played a guy that was known to play fast and loose with the rules in a tournament. He didn't cheat in our match so I didn't. Had he cheated I would have replied in kind or made him think I did. It is one of the finest sharks, leave the cue ball where you park your butt square in front of the other player and then jerk your head around as soon as you shoot as if to see if he saw anything, then continue shooting! Knowing they cheat themselves they are "sure" you did. I have had people claim I fouled when I didn't come within six inches of a foul just because I did the jerk my head around thing. I do my best to make cheaters lives miserable while they play me and if that includes a little bit of their own medicine it doesn't bother me at all. Matter of fact it makes my day to run these folks ragged trying to watch any shot of mine that there is a faint possibility of me fouling.

Hu

JennyPav
03-16-2010, 07:56 AM
back when i was new to league play, very rarely did players automatically call their own fouls and give up the table. it was just the culture of that league at that time. if a player did commit a foul, they would usually pause at the table for a moment and wait for "foul" to be called by the opposing player. if the opponent didn't call foul, the initial player continued shooting. looking back, it was a bit of tough love and it was good for me; it forced me to pay attention to my match and get up to speed on the rules.

today though, i automatically hand the cue ball over if i commit a foul, regardless of whether or not my opponent saw it. this is partly because it doesn't sit right with me to win a game knowing i'd fouled, and partly because of some quality players i've played against that have shown me that respect.

deadstroke13
03-16-2010, 08:38 AM
Yes I would call a foul on myself, on the other hand if the opponent isn't watching the match then I don't tell em coz its their own fault for not paying attention to the game.

Koop
03-16-2010, 08:43 AM
I am a recreational player and don't do this for a living but I doubt that would have any effect on my decision to call it on myself.
I have called fouls on myself that were so close I could have easliy gotten away with it. I just can't, in good conscience, keep shooting.
It's about character at this point, IMO, I NEVER want to give anyone an excuse to call my integrity into question.

deebee53
03-16-2010, 08:56 AM
Its been my experience in league play that most players can not tell the difference between a bad hit when it is close.

Also, you get a lot of people that will blast the shot as hard as they can so you don't get a good look at the hit, then just keep shooting.

The guy I shot last night had a shot that I didn't think he could really make. He hit it soft and it made it an easy call. I play that way also. Blasting them is pretty much the same as cheating, IMO.

tksix
03-16-2010, 09:07 AM
I call all fauls on myself. Regardless if it is practice
or the finals of a tourney.

If I were to win because of the faul I knew I committed
and didn't call, it would not be a win. I would probably
throw my cues out on the way home.

Mike

TSW
03-16-2010, 09:12 AM
If I know I committed a foul, I'll call it on myself and turn the table over to the opponent. If I'm not sure, I'll usually see if anyone else saw it or stay silent. The leagues/tournaments I play in have a rule that calls disputed after the fact go to the shooter, so I don't think I'm doing anything wrong if I'm honestly not sure.

Two situations came up recently that I think are tougher calls:

1) In league play, my teammate was playing and made a bad hit that the opponent didn't see. He turned to me and asked if the hit was good. I asked if he was sure he wanted me to get involved. He said yes, so I called it a bad hit. My rule of thumb as a spectator is that I'll only get involved if specifically asked, and only if I can make a clear ruling.

2) In a cue-ball-fouls-only tournament, I had a couple of balls close together and near a pocket that I had to lean over. My opponent claimed my shirt hit the balls and moved them. It's possible that I touched the balls (I don't know for sure), but I know that both balls went into the near pocket both before and after my shot. In 9-ball the first thing you do is survey the table and look for any trouble, so I'm positive both balls went. My opponent wanted to re-set the balls such that they weren't makeable. Since this tournament also has a "dispute goes to the shooter" rule I would up winning the argument, but I couldn't tell if my opponent was trying to cheat me or not.

TheBook
03-16-2010, 09:17 AM
I usually will take the foul if I committed one. I say usually because it depends on my opponents behavior. If he is not respecting me or the game I will just keep on playing. By this I mean he is not paying attention because he is too busy texting, on the phone or messing around and just not into the game, as if he was bored or not concerned about me as a opponent. If I feel he is intentionally missing trying to sandbag or anything else that is not good sportsmanship I will not give myself up on a foul unless he sees it.

If someone goes to the restroom or bar while I am shooting and he tells me to keep on playing I will definitely not cheat because he is trusting me and I will expect the same from him.

ososlow
03-16-2010, 11:02 AM
Thanks, everyone. Yeah, that guy was a knucklehead.

I even left out the part where he yelled, "GET IN THERE!" when I accidentally knocked in an early 8 going for a breakout. That's what started the whole thing. He didn't like it when I told him I felt it was tacky to cheer for that stuff. That's a whole 'nother thread in and of its own.

Oh well, there's always one in every tournament.

Its simple. He didn't want to lose to a Girl. In MOMA I missed a real easy eightball and the other team jumped out of thier chairs , clapped , hooted and hollered. The guy I was playing did not get out and played a safe. I called a two rail bank and made it ! I looked at their team and said "Now you should clap!" Man was I pissed off. BTW still snowing out there?

Fatboy
03-16-2010, 11:11 AM
I was in $5,000 action(a race to 20) and had a close call, my opponent didnt ask for a ref, didnt complain about the hit, I kept shooting-this has happened once to me. I thought the hit was bad, I paused and he saw it happen, he never said a word so I kept playing. If it was $50 action I would have called the foul.

My take on it is when your betting alot CYA, cover your ass. I awalys call over a ref for the hit when i'm not shooting.

When I play friends I AWALYS call the foul on myself but when I have a big bet going-I dont do any favors for who i'm gambling with.

JoeyA
03-16-2010, 11:14 AM
when you see your opponent make an obvious bad hit, and when you ask them about it, they look you straight in the eye and claim it was a good hit. We both know they are lying.

Steve

Steve,
Your example above is one that I try to avoid. If I see an opponent make an obvious foul, I call "foul" and don't give an "honest" person the opportunity to make a dishonest call.

Asking a person if they made a bad hit when it is an obvious foul is a mistake, imo.


JoeyA

oneshotwiss
03-16-2010, 11:16 AM
I was in a situation at a US Amateur qualifier and we were playing 9 ball. My opponent got down to shoot and at the last second I noticed he was getting ready to shoot at the wrong ball. Luckily I was able to stop him before he stroked it and after apologizing for interupting him while he was down on the shot, I simply said "you may want to shoot that ball instead."
Even though I won the match he thanked me afterwards and said it was great sportsmanship on my part. Billiards is a game of integrity and I surely don't want to cheapen a victory by winning that way...

Tom In Cincy
03-16-2010, 11:20 AM
Since it is close to that TAX day and I was working on my taxes... I found myself looking for ways to pay less and get back more of what the IRS has deemed appropriate for my income bracket.

I wonder how may of all the 'integrity' minded pool players actually pay all their taxes that they should.

Do you really try to find all the ways you should be paying taxes?

Do you find a cop and tell them to write you a ticket when you found yourself doing 69 in a 65? or 45 in a 40?

How honest are you? or is it juts at the pool table?

I find myself scratching my head and asking... 'or is it a matter of convenience? or that if I don't call a questionable hit a foul and someone is watching will they think I am cheating?'

How will I really feel? did I just cheat myself in the name of 'integrity'?

Fess up buddies... I think I am being a little on the hypocritical side here.

Wortguy
03-16-2010, 11:28 AM
It is one of the finest sharks, leave the cue ball where you park your butt square in front of the other player and then jerk your head around as soon as you shoot as if to see if he saw anything, then continue shooting! Knowing they cheat themselves they are "sure" you did.

Hu


That's hilarious! Although as an honest player who wouldn't cover up a foul, I think if you did that to me I might have to wonder what kind of foul you just committed!

pt109
03-16-2010, 11:52 AM
I was in a situation at a US Amateur qualifier and we were playing 9 ball. My opponent got down to shoot and at the last second I noticed he was getting ready to shoot at the wrong ball. Luckily I was able to stop him before he stroked it and after apologizing for interupting him while he was down on the shot, I simply said "you may want to shoot that ball instead."
Even though I won the match he thanked me afterwards and said it was great sportsmanship on my part. Billiards is a game of integrity and I surely don't want to cheapen a victory by winning that way...

If my opponent helps me to win i don't think it's honorable,i think it's
condescending.
If i was betting or backing a player who instructed his opponent i would
never risk my $ on him again.
If a ref did the same thing he is fired.
If a spectator does it he has to leave the playing area.
In an honorable competition - no quarter is asked for or given -just like
the knights of old.
If you help your opponent win you have cheapened HIS victory.

pt109
03-16-2010, 12:01 PM
How honest are you? or is it juts at the pool table?

I find myself scratching my head and asking... 'or is it a matter of convenience? or that if I don't call a questionable hit a foul and someone is watching will they think I am cheating?'

How will I really feel? did I just cheat myself in the name of 'integrity'?

Fess up buddies... I think I am being a little on the hypocritical side here.

If a hit is questionable i take the best of it but i give my opponent
the same consideration when he is shooting.This allows action to
go on without a ref and a team of lawyers.
Can you imagine making a game by having your people talk to my people?

Celtic
03-16-2010, 12:04 PM
A close double hit like that I would likely call on myself, but in team situations in Vegas a player is required to pay attention to their match and see fouls and know when to take ball in hand. You will rarely ever get a guy telling you "that was a foul I just hit, ball in hand for you", normally you have to say "foul?" and they will then acknowledge it and you get your ball in hand.

What you mention there, a close double hit, like say where a guy touches the cueball with the tip of the cue and then quickly shoots to mask it, that is a fairly grey area thing to do, yes an opponent should be watching but movements of the cueball can be slight and hard to see. In most situations in Vegas with most players from what I have seen is att he initial nudge of the cueball and foul the player will stand up and rechalk to see if you saw it, if you are oblivious to the fact he touched the ball they will probably keep shooting.

Is it the most honest or sportsman like way of doing things? No, but it seems to be fairly universally consistent in the way people are at least at that level of amature competition. Most of the people are honest and they will admit a foul when you call it but you have to be paying attention to the game enough to call it in the first place.

Medalist
03-16-2010, 01:45 PM
Why would he say this to you after getting away with it. It's like a person doing a crime and wanting to get caught. You cheat and get away with it and brag about it? Holy cow. To be honest I have done it like most of us. I felt bad after and decided never to do it again. Now the praying for your opponents misfortune out loud. If your good friends shooting around, hell yes, but in an official match. No way.

stumpie71
03-16-2010, 02:44 PM
I have always called fouls on myself. If it's going to be close then I will stop and ask for a ref or someone to watch. I watch my matches closely but you will never see everything, so I appreciate a person being honest with me as I would be with them.

ftgokie
03-16-2010, 03:00 PM
This weekend I had an opponent admit the following to me after our match, "You missed a foul that cost you the match." It was as though he was bragging about it.

"Excuse me?" I responded.

"Yeah, I fouled and you didn't even call it," he says.

"Obviously I didn't see it and assumed you were honest. And you're proud of this?" I asked.

"I stood up and walked around the table. I gave you a chance to say something," he boasted.

Wow... Seriously? Am I supposed to assume that getting up and walking around the table means that it's ball in hand for me? He was facing me and must've double-hit the cue ball. If it hardly moves, how can I see that?

I can honestly say that I have never knowingly fouled and not called it on myself. My conscience would never let me get away with it.

I have been in this situation before..I dont care what happens, or the outcome..I will always call a foul on myself if I know I did it. Id rather walk away with no money and know I did the right thing, than with a pocket full of cash and know that I basically cheated the other person out of the money.

If they wanna laugh at me for being honest, let them...id rather be honest and have fun playing pool than be dishonest and get that mark on me for life that I was a dishonest person.

Shawn

CreeDo
03-17-2010, 01:15 AM
Since it is close to that TAX day and I was working on my taxes... I found myself looking for ways to pay less and get back more of what the IRS has deemed appropriate for my income bracket.

I wonder how may of all the 'integrity' minded pool players actually pay all their taxes that they should.

Do you really try to find all the ways you should be paying taxes?

Do you find a cop and tell them to write you a ticket when you found yourself doing 69 in a 65? or 45 in a 40?

How honest are you? or is it juts at the pool table?

I find myself scratching my head and asking... 'or is it a matter of convenience? or that if I don't call a questionable hit a foul and someone is watching will they think I am cheating?'

How will I really feel? did I just cheat myself in the name of 'integrity'?

Fess up buddies... I think I am being a little on the hypocritical side here.

I found this to be an interesting point. Those of us who call fouls on ourselves like to think the motive is pure, and we're being honorable etc. But it's funny how we'll be honest when it doesn't count (some inconsequential game) vs. when it could really matter (paying a few extra hundred or thousand per year in taxes). It's easy to be honest when it's convenient, and to some extent I'll admit I'm gonna call it on myself because I think... "if I don't call it on myself, and he saw it... he's gonna think I'm some kind of dirtbag".

It's also easy to fall into the mindset that the universe owes you something; you feel you don't have to call every little nitty foul on yourself, because you don't deserve a big penalty for a minor offense. It's the same reasoning that makes you think "yeah, screw the IRS, the government already gets enough of my money. I earned this, I'm not giving it away." There's a youtube video people link when they want to bash earl, and he talks about how he once didn't call a foul on himself because he got shafted by a bad roll. "There was a ROCK. Under the FELT." ...basically he woulda lost thousands of dollars calling the foul on himself, and he felt like he was owed something due to the horrible roll that hooked his cue ball.

Sometimes I catch myself thinking the same way. Like, "okay this game doesn't count because it's a gaffy table, I just watched the CB drift a foot off course and hook me. There's no money and the outcome is meaningless. Why am I gonna wait for him to come out of the bathroom to hand him BIH?" but I can't bring myself to cheat because basically I feel bad and I expect myself to have enough control to not accidentally nudge a ball. I'm not gonna miss the kick and then pretend like it was a good hit. I'd rather work on my game until I can make that hit, just like I've reached a point where I no longer push or tap whitey during a warmup stroke.

MJR77
03-17-2010, 01:23 AM
For me it depends...if I am playing socially with friends and just for fun and i touch a ball or something slight I do not...BUT ifI am playing someone I do not know or in a tourny ect ect I call everything on myself

oneshotwiss
03-17-2010, 05:10 AM
If my opponent helps me to win i don't think it's honorable,i think it's
condescending.
If i was betting or backing a player who instructed his opponent i would
never risk my $ on him again.
If a ref did the same thing he is fired.
If a spectator does it he has to leave the playing area.
In an honorable competition - no quarter is asked for or given -just like
the knights of old.
If you help your opponent win you have cheapened HIS victory.


Whatever you have to do to win is up to you. I don't have to win that way. Karma pays you back in future victories...

pool101
03-17-2010, 05:59 AM
I was playing in a local tournament Monday night. After his break my opponent (last weeks winner) was lining up to play a safe on the 3 ball, I watched him line up the shot to lock me up, He gets in shooting position when I told him the one ball was still up...
I could have let him foul and maybe I should have but I was there for the game, I would not feel right if I had not told him. Two racks later he is jacked up over the eight shooting on the seven, he made the shot, then he came to me and told me he thought he fouled the shot (Double hit the Cue ball) and gave me ball in hand on the eight.
I won 4-0.

Heyman
03-17-2010, 09:35 AM
I always call them.

Someone once said. "To yourself first be true."

Heyman.

greenlight
03-17-2010, 09:58 AM
Personaly i would rather loose and keep my integrity. I dont know how some people live with themselves. Last night at league playoffs a woman shot this shot against us. I was watching from across the room. This is about as obvious as it comes when determining a good hit vs. a bad hit. My teammate walked up to the table to take ball in hand when she said it was a good hit and proceeded shooting for the win. You wouldnt think you need a reff for that one. After the game she went to say 'good game' and it came out "good hit.......i mean good game". http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKQV1HXvh3LLWF2PFny3UKQV3UcIt3gLWF3gSQO2kFny3kI tE4kHpl4kbXg4kSOM@

lms9t
03-17-2010, 10:08 AM
I can't enjoy winning if I didn't earn it. Stings like crazy when I accidentally tip the cue ball when I line up for the game-winner, but it's I can only blame myself. On the other side, I hate winning like that when that happens to my opponent. A lot of times I don't call things like tiny accidental tips of the cue ball because I want my opponents' best games.

supergreenman
03-17-2010, 10:25 AM
This weekend I had an opponent admit the following to me after our match, "You missed a foul that cost you the match." It was as though he was bragging about it.

"Excuse me?" I responded.

"Yeah, I fouled and you didn't even call it," he says.

"Obviously I didn't see it and assumed you were honest. And you're proud of this?" I asked.

"I stood up and walked around the table. I gave you a chance to say something," he boasted.

Wow... Seriously? Am I supposed to assume that getting up and walking around the table means that it's ball in hand for me? He was facing me and must've double-hit the cue ball. If it hardly moves, how can I see that?

I can honestly say that I have never knowingly fouled and not called it on myself. My conscience would never let me get away with it.

Samm this happened to me last night. My opponent was shooting at a ball that was about 2.5 inches away from the CB and he wanted to use follow.

Normally this shot isn't in much danger of fouling, but he followed through with his cue and hit not only the cb but 2-3 other object balls with his cue knocking open a cluster. I asked him if it was a double hit because it was quite obvious to me. He denied and I said "really? you didn't see yourself hit the cb as well as all those ball in the cluster with your cue after your shot? That's amazing."

After a shot like that I would have (and I have)picked up the Cb and handed it to my opponent. no questions.

He didn't. But Kharma kicked him in the ass his next shot as he hit too soft and didn't sink a ball or catch a rail. He left me with a simple 4 ball run.

ne14tennis
03-17-2010, 10:46 AM
To all the people that say "I don't give them a chance to be a gentlemen, I just take BIH if I know it was a foul"

If you are playing under BCAPL rules you have to ask.

A couple sessions ago one of my teammates was up and her opponent missed hitting a rail by 3 or 4 inches. She picked up the cue ball and he calls foul because she never asked. The whole team got involved and at one point I thought it might come to violence. He would not answer whether he had fouled but kept repeating that she never asked.

Like many here I wish the game was filled with only good sportsmanship.....but it isn't and if you're playing without a referee you have to protect yourself

metallicane
03-17-2010, 10:47 AM
This weekend I had an opponent admit the following to me after our match, "You missed a foul that cost you the match." It was as though he was bragging about it.

"Excuse me?" I responded.

"Yeah, I fouled and you didn't even call it," he says.

"Obviously I didn't see it and assumed you were honest. And you're proud of this?" I asked.

"I stood up and walked around the table. I gave you a chance to say something," he boasted.

Wow... Seriously? Am I supposed to assume that getting up and walking around the table means that it's ball in hand for me? He was facing me and must've double-hit the cue ball. If it hardly moves, how can I see that?

I can honestly say that I have never knowingly fouled and not called it on myself. My conscience would never let me get away with it.

That's total BS. Why would you brag that you pulled a fast one. Pardon my French, but what a Richard.

Tennesseejoe
03-17-2010, 11:36 AM
While I believe the integrity of the game comes from the players and it is my obligation to uphold that, there is also another side to the coin. In a refereed game, the referees call is final whether it is correct or not. That's just the way it is in other sports also.

Before play I like to agree who makes the call:the shooter or the opponent. It's just like posting the money before you play. My preference is to have the non shooter make the call because they are in a better position to see.

JoeyA
03-17-2010, 12:45 PM
Samm,
You've started a very good thread and it continues with many unique and different perspectives.

The perspectives in this thread bring one question to my mind and that is:

Should calling a foul on yourself be part of the rules of play?

If there is a rule that states that a referee may call a foul while refereeing a game, why can't there be a rule that states that the shooter is obligated to call a foul on themselves when a referee is not present?

A rule of this type might elevate the level of integrity in our sport, since it would then be expected adherence to the rules, rather than depending upon the conscience or morals of the players.

Furthermore, there should be a rule that states that the opponent may also call a foul, if there isn't one already.

JoeyA

akaTrigger
03-17-2010, 12:58 PM
Samm,
You've started a very good thread and it continues with many unique and different perspectives.

The perspectives in this thread bring one question to my mind and that is:

Should calling a foul on yourself be part of the rules of play?

If there is a rule that states that a referee may call a foul while refereeing a game, why can't there be a rule that states that the shooter is obligated to call a foul on themselves when a referee is not present?

A rule of this type might elevate the level of integrity in our sport, since it would then be expected adherence to the rules, rather than depending upon the conscience or morals of the players.

Furthermore, there should be a rule that states that the opponent may also call a foul, if there isn't one already.

JoeyA

That would probably be under unsportsmanship conduct... which unsportsmanship conduct is not suppose to be tolerated in tournaments.

ShootingArts
03-17-2010, 01:00 PM
Samm,
You've started a very good thread and it continues with many unique and different perspectives.

The perspectives in this thread bring one question to my mind and that is:

Should calling a foul on yourself be part of the rules of play?

If there is a rule that states that a referee may call a foul while refereeing a game, why can't there be a rule that states that the shooter is obligated to call a foul on themselves when a referee is not present?

A rule of this type might elevate the level of integrity in our sport, since it would then be expected adherence to the rules, rather than depending upon the conscience or morals of the players.

Furthermore, there should be a rule that states that the opponent may also call a foul, if there isn't one already.

JoeyA

Joey,

The rule probably should read that a player is obligated to call a foul on themselves, the other player may call a foul. That would help a few people that have slipped into gray areas, it won't affect the out and out cheaters without any moral fiber. For better or worse pool is based on a gentleman's game and when people aren't honorable there isn't much recourse sometimes.

Hu

robleyf7
03-17-2010, 01:01 PM
i would call a foul on my self i don.t cheat i hate when i get cheated even tho if they fouled an dident admit it i still would call a foul on my self an hand them the cue ball

Antfarm
03-17-2010, 01:08 PM
Okay, I call fouls on myself.

But, how about this situation. I'm an extremely under-ranked 9-ball player. I'm a 4 (APA) and I should be around a 7 or better. It's not my fault, I am undefeated (5-0, established) and usually crush people. In fact, I have more break and runs than anyone else in the league. Not bragging, just pointing out that my ranking isn't my fault. It's an APA mistake and they just won't raise me for some reason.

So, I'm playing this guy the other day and he was the biggest douche bag imaginable. He wouldn't stop saying sh*t the entire match and he took forever to shoot intentionally (seen him play multiple times and he was just doing it to piss me off). At one point... I thought my hit was VERY questionable and normally, I would have called the foul on myself. But, instead of paying attention to the match, he was talking sh*t about my game to everyone around him very loudly. I was already crushing him like 25-3 so I just continued to shoot (running out the rack) and won the game on the break in the next rack.

Was I wrong? What would you guys have done? I just wanted to be done with the damn match and I wanted to totally crush the guy to put him in his place. He wouldn't even shake my hand after the match... I found that pretty satisfying personally!

Greg

pt109
03-17-2010, 01:35 PM
Whatever you have to do to win is up to you. I don't have to win that way. Karma pays you back in future victories...

You missed my point.
I call my own fouls whenever i'm sure i've made one.
But i don't want my opponent helping me.That is what cheapens
the win.I play a lot of 9-ball,so sometimes at 8-ball when i get cue
ball in hand after a scratch on the break i forget to stay in the kitchen.
One time my opponent warned me so i handed him the cue ball.
It is my pleasure to compete fiercely but within the rules.
It is dishonorable to accept charity from your opponent.
Honesty is a different thing.
I'm not too worried about my pool karma.

JoeyA
03-17-2010, 02:43 PM
Joey,

The rule probably should read that a player is obligated to call a foul on themselves, the other player may call a foul. That would help a few people that have slipped into gray areas, it won't affect the out and out cheaters without any moral fiber. For better or worse pool is based on a gentleman's game and when people aren't honorable there isn't much recourse sometimes.

Hu

Or maybe:

When a referee is not present for a match and a foul is committed by the shooter he must immediately acknowledge that he has committed the foul and turn the table over to his opponent, accepting whatever penalty that is required for that particular game.

When a referee is not present for the match, the opponent may also call a foul is one is committed and overlooked by the shooter.

Overall, this could "help" some of us to reinforce our moral compass. As you mentioned, a few will remain incorrigible regardless of what rules are in place.

At least it would be part of the rules. They could call it the JoeyA rule. :D

JoeyA

Cuephoric
03-17-2010, 05:34 PM
I'm not willing to cheat myself or the game- If I foul, I call it or hand over the cueball. I've played alot of people that try to argue and hide the fact that they screwed up , and I've played players with integrity that feel the same way that I do about it.
Win or lose, I want to at least make the attempt at an honest effort-