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View Full Version : Marketing Minds want to know.....


jdxprs
03-16-2010, 11:27 AM
Is the lack of a true professional pool league a result of the players not getting their collective chit together, or is it a lack of sponsorship to draw enough money into it?

Duffman
03-16-2010, 11:29 AM
From what others have been saying on here for a long time. I am going to go with BOTH.

Tom In Cincy
03-16-2010, 11:34 AM
From a Marketing perspective.... define TRUE Professional League?

If it means you get money for the wins you have when you play in your weekly tournaments or leagues... their are already lots of LEAGUES that provide this.

If you are talking about MILLIONS... check with the APA Owners... they make a lot of money.

If you are talking about the average pool players? Beer and social gatherings will do just nicely.

Why do you ask? are you a player or a marketing agent?

or the short answer... BOTH

jdxprs
03-16-2010, 11:47 AM
i guess what im really asking is what kind of sponsorship money would it take to set up a tour that would draw out ALL the big name players for something like a 25 tournament circuit.

cajunfats
03-16-2010, 12:14 PM
i guess what im really asking is what kind of sponsorship money would it take to set up a tour that would draw out ALL the big name players for something like a 25 tournament circuit.Based on your estimate of a 25 tournament circuit,approximately $7.5-$10.0 Million. This is partly based on a $100,000 per tournament prize fund with a $500,000 end of year Champions Tournament. There is not enough room in this thread to detail everything involved,but it is possible to do what you are asking. It will never be done by the industry alone. We will need venture capital to make it work.

CrownCityCorey
03-16-2010, 01:00 PM
Based on your estimate of a 25 tournament circuit,approximately $7.5-$10.0 Million. This is partly based on a $100,000 per tournament prize fund with a $500,000 end of year Champions Tournament. There is not enough room in this thread to detail everything involved,but it is possible to do what you are asking. It will never be done by the industry alone. We will need venture capital to make it work.

With a budget like that, I could knock that beeyatch outta tha park!

The IPT, allegedy, put 10 million into it and died in it's first two tour stops.

cajunfats
03-16-2010, 01:50 PM
With a budget like that, I could knock that beeyatch outta tha park!

The IPT, allegedy, put 10 million into it and died in it's first two tour stops. Corey,you are right. The IPT may have had good intentions,but it appears they were short sighted on costs,organization,and return on investment. You know as well as anyone the costs of putting together events,and the little costs that keep adding up,and up,and up. I have worked in the Marketing Department at the Largest Native American Casino in Louisiana,and they have an Entertainment /Events Budget that would not be far from the estimates I gave(typical 1 night concert cost $100,000). I have also worked at the BCA,and have seen the logistics for the BCA Amateur and World Championship Events. You know that providing for these events is also expensive. I have no doubt with the collective talent from the people here at AZ,that beeyatch would sail over the ocean and around the world!

jdxprs
03-16-2010, 02:54 PM
so based on prize money alone, the tour would need about 3 million. nascar has the SPRINT cup. seems to me, an international company should be willing to sponsor something like this for such a small amount.

the other 7 million you speak of is for renting facilities, equipment and things of that nature?

what are the best 25 pool rooms in the country? this could be an interesting way to do the tour and keep costs more reasonable. events could be bracketed into different days the way the world series of poker is now.

a large hotel/casino would be an obvious choice for a championship end of year event. shouldnt be too hard to find a hotel casino looking for an outragous number of gambling pool players.

cajunfats
03-16-2010, 03:12 PM
so based on prize money alone, the tour would need about 3 million. nascar has the SPRINT cup. seems to me, an international company should be willing to sponsor something like this for such a small amount.

the other 7 million you speak of is for renting facilities, equipment and things of that nature?

what are the best 25 pool rooms in the country? this could be an interesting way to do the tour and keep costs more reasonable. events could be bracketed into different days the way the world series of poker is now.

a large hotel/casino would be an obvious choice for a championship end of year event. shouldnt be too hard to find a hotel casino looking for an outragous number of gambling pool players.Yes,that is true. The numbers appear to be relative to what major sports organizations allocate to subordinate entities. There are plenty of structured organizations out there and we needn't reinvent the wheel. We would like to see a renowned worldwide name to attach to the tour. To get such a commitment is part of the strategy. There may be possibilities for Pool rooms to be involved,but they would not be the priority locations. Neither would Casino's except for perhaps a special event. This will require innovative thinking. Your analogy towards the WSP events has merit. I hope we discuss it further.

insanepoolgod
03-16-2010, 04:30 PM
Corey,you are right. The IPT may have had good intentions,but it appears they were short sighted on costs,organization,and return on investment. You know as well as anyone the costs of putting together events,and the little costs that keep adding up,and up,and up. I have worked in the Marketing Department at the Largest Native American Casino in Louisiana,and they have an Entertainment /Events Budget that would not be far from the estimates I gave(typical 1 night concert cost $100,000). I have also worked at the BCA,and have seen the logistics for the BCA Amateur and World Championship Events. You know that providing for these events is also expensive. I have no doubt with the collective talent from the people here at AZ,that beeyatch would sail over the ocean and around the world!

Which casino did you work for?

measureman
03-16-2010, 04:46 PM
Based on your estimate of a 25 tournament circuit,approximately $7.5-$10.0 Million. This is partly based on a $100,000 per tournament prize fund with a $500,000 end of year Champions Tournament. There is not enough room in this thread to detail everything involved,but it is possible to do what you are asking. It will never be done by the industry alone. We will need venture capital to make it work.

I'm in for $10.00. Anybody else?

Grilled Cheese
03-16-2010, 05:40 PM
There's just no interest. No demand for it.


I have stepped away from the game and away from the pool world for long enough periods of time where I could clear my mind and get a proper perspective.

That said, no one really cares about pool. There are local or region tours, like the Seminole Tour (Florida Pro Tour). How many people show up to that? Hardly any. Even among all the amateur players and lovers of the game - only a fraction, a small one at that, shows up to watch these events. And that's when it's local. Forget having to drive out someplace, pay for lodging etcetera.

What you see at major events is nothing more than all the hard core enthusiasts and lovers of the game. Such as at the SBE, events in Vegas, or big tourneys. Many of whom are some how tied to the industry. Which in my opinion, disqualifies them as being categorized as fans. The idea being, pool needs support by a fan base other than industry people. There's no rush at the door of any professional event in pool.

Imagine 25,000 people wanting to attend the US Open, but there's only room at the event center for 10,000. Would be quite a venue. Ticket prices would climb. It would be large enough to get TV coverage at the least on some cable channel as a rerun at worst. Someone would sponsor it other than billiard industry. The cable sports channel would pay to have it, rather than get paid to run it. Pool pays for pool on TV which is why 100% of the commercials during televised pool are billiard industry commercials. The influx of fans would generate business for local hotels/motels, restaurants etcetera. Who would then get on board....Another thing, if 25,000 people wanted to show, that means 10x as many or more WILL BE watching it or wanting to watch it on TV. For every 1 that shows, there's at least 10 that want to see it on the tube.


You can talk big sponsors all you want. Choose any big corporation. Why would they spend their money sponsoring pool? They sponsor sports because it's an advertisement for them. For advertising to work, it requires exposure. How many eyeballs are going to see a sponsor's banner at a pool tournament? Not many. I don't care if you stream it on the web.

It's not enough eyes to justify the kind of money you folks are talking about. That money is better spent on sports that get on TV or have huge following.

That's what I'm talking about when it comes to perspective. Too many people in the "pool world" get their mind clouded up thinking pool is a lot bigger than it really is. It isn't. It's small.


The fact remains, money has to come from somewhere. In all other sports, it ultimately comes from the fans. A sport needs many paying fans for sponsors to jump on board. Those sponsors aren't doing it for free. When they sponsor, they advertise. They expect those ads and that sponsorship to translate into profits/sales. Fans buy their products or services.

So, where are all the pool fans? Hardly any.

A note on participation - that is what dooms pool. It's the easiest game to participate in. Also the cheapest. Just drive to the local pool hall and pay your $8/hr on a Friday night prime time. That's dirt cheap peanuts compared to anything else.

While we the players understand the eliteness and excellence of what top play is like and how hard it is to achieve, the average person has no clue.

Therefore, pool has no "awe" to it. People tend to follow and ultimately worship sports and athletes that do things they consider super human. It gets into the psychology of sports and sports history going all the way back to the ancient Olympics.

Pool is one of the hardest sports (or games) to gain an understanding for its difficulty. Also, people don't respect a table game in a bar or pool hall in the same way, one that they can play themselves whenever.

Even if they haven't played pool, it looks easy or silly to them. In the psyche of the masses, it doesn't appear difficult or something that requires a lifetime of training to reach an elite level.

Whereas, these same people probably tossed a baseball around even if they didn't play organized baseball as a youth. They know it's something special to be able to throw a 100mph fast ball AND hit the strike zone. They know how impressive it is for a golfer to drive the ball hundreds of hards AND be that accurate or to nail a 45ft putt on a slanted green. Or to kick a 52 yard field goal.....

The examples go on and on.


Finally, there's the excitement factor. Pool just isn't exciting for the average person. The same can be said of golf, but golf has it going in one critical area that makes up for the lack of items below - it has an incredible perception among the masses of being an extremely difficult and skilled game. Which it is. So much so, that becoming a pro, in the view of the fans, separates you in talent and qualities as a human being. Getting back to that super human ability perception. A tiny bit of that can be found in pool - only among hard core pool fans (the average banger has no clue who these people are)...such as amazing play by Efren Reyes, huge straight pool runs by Schmidt, 3-cushion play by Sayginer...There's no doubt many of us in the pool world feel that these people possess something that we will never possess. Now, take that feeling and multiply it by millions and you have the fans of golf, tennis, baseball, football, basketball.....

CrownCityCorey
03-16-2010, 05:51 PM
There's just no interest. No demand for it.


I have stepped away from the game and away from the pool world for long enough periods of time where I could clear my mind and get a proper perspective.

That said, no one really cares about pool. There are local or region tours, like the Seminole Tour (Florida Pro Tour). How many people show up to that? Hardly any. Even among all the amateur players and lovers of the game - only a fraction, a small one at that, shows up to watch these events. And that's when it's local. Forget having to drive out someplace, pay for lodging etcetera.

What you see at major events is nothing more than all the hard core enthusiasts and lovers of the game. Such as at the SBE, events in Vegas, or big tourneys. Many of whom are some how tied to the industry. Which in my opinion, disqualifies them as being categorized as fans. The idea being, pool needs support by a fan base other than industry people. There's no rush at the door of any professional event in pool.

Imagine 25,000 people wanting to attend the US Open, but there's only room at the event center for 10,000. Would be quite a venue. Ticket prices would climb. It would be large enough to get TV coverage at the least on some cable channel as a rerun at worst. Someone would sponsor it other than billiard industry. The cable sports channel would pay to have it, rather than get paid to run it. Pool pays for pool on TV which is why 100% of the commercials during televised pool are billiard industry commercials. The influx of fans would generate business for local hotels/motels, restaurants etcetera. Who would then get on board....Another thing, if 25,000 people wanted to show, that means 10x as many or more WILL BE watching it or wanting to watch it on TV. For every 1 that shows, there's at least 10 that want to see it on the tube.


You can talk big sponsors all you want. Choose any big corporation. Why would they spend their money sponsoring pool? They sponsor sports because it's an advertisement for them. For advertising to work, it requires exposure. How many eyeballs are going to see a sponsor's banner at a pool tournament? Not many. I don't care if you stream it on the web.

It's not enough eyes to justify the kind of money you folks are talking about. That money is better spent on sports that get on TV or have huge following.

That's what I'm talking about when it comes to perspective. Too many people in the "pool world" get their mind clouded up thinking pool is a lot bigger than it really is. It isn't. It's small.


The fact remains, money has to come from somewhere. In all other sports, it ultimately comes from the fans. A sport needs many paying fans for sponsors to jump on board. Those sponsors aren't doing it for free. When they sponsor, they advertise. They expect those ads and that sponsorship to translate into profits/sales. Fans buy their products or services.

So, where are all the pool fans? Hardly any.

A note on participation - that is what dooms pool. It's the easiest game to participate in. Also the cheapest. Just drive to the local pool hall and pay your $8/hr on a Friday night prime time. That's dirt cheap peanuts compared to anything else.

While we the players understand the eliteness and excellence of what top play is like and how hard it is to achieve, the average person has no clue.

Therefore, pool has no "awe" to it. People tend to follow and ultimately worship sports and athletes that do things they consider super human. It gets into the psychology of sports and sports history going all the way back to the ancient Olympics.

Pool is one of the hardest sports (or games) to gain an understanding for its difficulty. Also, people don't respect a table game in a bar or pool hall in the same way, one that they can play themselves whenever.

Even if they haven't played pool, it looks easy or silly to them. In the psyche of the masses, it doesn't appear difficult or something that requires a lifetime of training to reach an elite level.

Whereas, these same people probably tossed a baseball around even if they didn't play organized baseball as a youth. They know it's something special to be able to throw a 100mph fast ball AND hit the strike zone. They know how impressive it is for a golfer to drive the ball hundreds of hards AND be that accurate or to nail a 45ft putt on a slanted green. Or to kick a 52 yard field goal.....

The examples go on and on.


Finally, there's the excitement factor. Pool just isn't exciting for the average person. The same can be said of golf, but golf has it going in one critical area that makes up for the lack of items below - it has an incredible perception among the masses of being an extremely difficult and skilled game. Which it is. So much so, that becoming a pro, in the view of the fans, separates you in talent and qualities as a human being. Getting back to that super human ability perception. A tiny bit of that can be found in pool - only among hard core pool fans (the average banger has no clue who these people are)...such as amazing play by Efren Reyes, huge straight pool runs by Schmidt, 3-cushion play by Sayginer...There's no doubt many of us in the pool world feel that these people possess something that we will never possess. Now, take that feeling and multiply it by millions and you have the fans of golf, tennis, baseball, football, basketball.....

Great perspective and very well stated.

DogsPlayingPool
03-16-2010, 06:17 PM
Our perspective here on AZB is somewhat distorted. And not just that the outside world of casual players would flock to watch a professional pool tour, which is doubtful. When a pro event of 100 of the best players in the world plays to an empty room when it is taking place in a Las Vegas hotel FULL of thousands of serious league players, what does that say?

I think we have a skewed view of ourselves as well. The percentage of members here that spring for the PPV streams that are discussed and promoted on this board is pathetic.

Bring up the subject about the cost of food at the Riviera Hotel on this forum and see what happens. Of course a lot of these same people complain that their tournament should be moved to a nicer place like the Mirage or the Bellagio. Go figure.

Pool players, as a group, simply have not supported the professional game in years. At least not nearly to the extent needed to take it to a level you envision. This is a base problem. It just seems to me that if pro events were attended by thousands of fans then television and sponsors would follow.

Grilled Cheese
03-16-2010, 06:58 PM
Our perspective here on AZB is somewhat distorted.

Exactly what I was saying. I agree 100%.


And not just that the outside world of casual players would flock to watch a professional pool tour, which is doubtful. When a pro event of 100 of the best players in the world plays to an empty room when it is taking place in a Las Vegas hotel FULL of thousands of serious league players, what does that say?

That says it ALL.

I've been to tournaments where some of the Gods of pool were slugging it out playing some of the greatest 9-ball matches ever, at the peak of their games... and with the exception of a couple big-name matchups on the "TV" table *cough* accustats video table, the room was empty.

That is extremely discouraging. Almost seems hopeless.

To sit there, in a mostly empty event, watching what is the equivalent of the Tiger Woods of pool, or the Michael Jordan of pool...etcetera is sad.


Pool players, as a group, simply have not supported the professional game in years. At least not nearly to the extent needed to take it to a level you envision. This is a base problem. It just seems to me that if pro events were attended by thousands of fans then television and sponsors would follow.


You're right.


Unfortunately, many have the opposite belief. I don't blame them or bash them for trying, because they are trying out of desperation. It's the only thing they can come up with in what is effectively, an unworkable situation.


Allow me to clarify.


Some believe in the "build it and they will come" theory of growing pool. I believe this is flawed and will never work.

Example 1: The IPT.

Throw tons of money at it, big prizes brings attention. Theory is that people show interest in that which has big prize money. This was proved false.

Example 2: Certain new amateur leagues.

Some people are promoting amateur leagues where a percentage is taken to subsidize a professional tour. Essentially, welfare for the pros.

The theory being, that if a pro tour can be sustained - it will generate more interest and grow the base, that base will feed back into the pros and a cycle will develop. A growth cycle.

I believe this is flawed - because it depends on a TINY base (the amateur pool leagues) to fund a tour that, as you mentioned in your own post - NO ONE GIVES A #@!& ABOUT. Not even the very players that are being taxed to subsidize said pro tour. How the heck are outsiders suppose to get into pro pool when the amateur players themselves don't care?


Your example was the best of the best. Thousands of serious (serious enough to travel to Vegas) amateur league players and most could care less about the pro event.

I could make excuses for them. They're focused on their stay there. Um, it's Vegas - when in Vegas you going to watch some pros play or go out and have a good time?

But those excuses don't hold up, because in other areas of the country, the same thing happens, yet there's no Vegas party time nor tourney for the amateurs to be occupied with.


It's truly sad, but the truth is not even most of the players even care about pro pool. Almost no one does.

Maniac
03-16-2010, 07:03 PM
[/B]
I'm in for $10.00. Anybody else?

I'll respectfully decline, thank you ;)!!!

Maniac

Maniac
03-16-2010, 07:40 PM
Let me add this perspective to the thread:

When I was in my teens, I played a board game called Sorry (Parker Brothers). I played a LOT of Sorry. I was good at it. Heck, I was the champion of the Meadowbrook Park recreation center, Arlington, Texas for two years running :grin:! I was so good at it, that when I turned a card over to see how many spaces I would get to move, I didn't even have to count out the spaces on the board. I could just pick my playing piece up and set it down on the square where it was going be be on if I had counted out each and every square. And I had ALL the strategy down pat.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is if the greatest Sorry players in the world would have gotten together and held a tournament, and if it would have been near to where I lived, and the cost to go in and watch the "greatest Sorry players in the world" was low, I STILL WOULD NOT have gone to watch. Why? Well, it's boring to watch something that I'm already fairly proficient at. How many times could I have played against some of these "greatest Sorry players in the world" and come out on top? Plenty. And would the casual "Friday night with the family" type of Sorry player have gone to watch this tournament? No, because it just does not mean "enough" to them to bother.

What I'm trying to convey here is that pool is very similar to something like the game of Sorry. There are your "just for fun" players, your players with a love of the game who eventually get proficient at it, and your "greatest players in the world" types, not to mention those that fall into the categories in between the ones I list.

Why would the "just play pool for fun" players ever want to pay (or even get in free for that matter) to watch people play pool? They wouldn't (and don't).

Why would a player, who on a good night, can play almost as good as some of the players in the tournament, want to pay to watch them? They wouldn't (and don't for the most part).

Why would improved players good enough to hang (on most nights) with many entered in a tournament want to pay to see people that play, for the most part, not all that better than themselves? They wouldn't (and seldom do).

This is the downfall of pool as a spectator sport. You either play for fun and don't care about the games best, or you are (or will be someday) good enough to not be awed and/or entertained by anybody, even the best the game has to offer. That's just the way it is and probably always will be. Like an earlier poster said, only the die-hard fan will pay to see a good tournament. Millions (literally) of poolplayers out there, very few spectators.

So, the bottom line is: Like what has already been listed on this thread by other posters is this....there is NO awe or wow factor to the game of pool.
Simple as that. And I don't know if it can be fixed.

Maniac

mnorwood
03-16-2010, 07:56 PM
For all the reasons listed in the thread pro pool is an irrelevant fringe activity in the mind of the average American. If I may be so bold I will go so far as to say that the only future the game has is in projects like Earl Munson's high school program in Dallas and my program in Pasadena Texas. Nobody cares about pro pool because most don't have enough knowledge about it to appreciate it. The future is in getting pool on to high school campuses and/or creating rooms for juniors that do not involve drinking, smoking and/or gambling.

DogsPlayingPool
03-16-2010, 08:26 PM
Let me add this perspective to the thread:

When I was in my teens, I played a board game called Sorry (Parker Brothers). I played a LOT of Sorry. I was good at it. Heck, I was the champion of the Meadowbrook Park recreation center, Arlington, Texas for two years running :grin:! I was so good at it, that when I turned a card over to see how many spaces I would get to move, I didn't even have to count out the spaces on the board. I could just pick my playing piece up and set it down on the square where it was going be be on if I had counted out each and every square. And I had ALL the strategy down pat.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is if the greatest Sorry players in the world would have gotten together and held a tournament, and if it would have been near to where I lived, and the cost to go in and watch the "greatest Sorry players in the world" was low, I STILL WOULD NOT have gone to watch. Why? Well, it's boring to watch something that I'm already fairly proficient at. How many times could I have played against some of these "greatest Sorry players in the world" and come out on top? Plenty. And would the casual "Friday night with the family" type of Sorry player have gone to watch this tournament? No, because it just does not mean "enough" to them to bother.

What I'm trying to convey here is that pool is very similar to something like the game of Sorry. There are your "just for fun" players, your players with a love of the game who eventually get proficient at it, and your "greatest players in the world" types, not to mention those that fall into the categories in between the ones I list.

Why would the "just play pool for fun" players ever want to pay (or even get in free for that matter) to watch people play pool? They wouldn't (and don't).

Why would a player, who on a good night, can play almost as good as some of the players in the tournament, want to pay to watch them? They wouldn't (and don't for the most part).

Why would improved players good enough to hang (on most nights) with many entered in a tournament want to pay to see people that play, for the most part, not all that better than themselves? They wouldn't (and seldom do).

This is the downfall of pool as a spectator sport. You either play for fun and don't care about the games best, or you are (or will be someday) good enough to not be awed and/or entertained by anybody, even the best the game has to offer. That's just the way it is and probably always will be. Like an earlier poster said, only the die-hard fan will pay to see a good tournament. Millions (literally) of poolplayers out there, very few spectators.

So, the bottom line is: Like what has already been listed on this thread by other posters is this....there is NO awe or wow factor to the game of pool.
Simple as that. And I don't know if it can be fixed.

Maniac

Then how do you explain the success of golf as a spectator sport? Don't most golfers fall into one of the categories you mentioned? And they all appear to have an interest in watching the best players in that sport, both in person by the tens of thousands at each event and on network TV and a dedicated cable channel. Golfers (of all skill levels) support their sport on the professional level. Pool Players? Not so much.:frown:

So while I get what your saying, I'm not convinced this explains why pool players don't support the pro game. And I don't know what the reason is. I wish I did.

tom mcgonagle
03-16-2010, 09:18 PM
Measureman states that he's in for ten dollars. He probably thinks he's joking but that's all it would take to start a major pool circuit in this country. Ten dollars from a million pool players is ten million dollars.

We could be the venture capitalists the so despartly needs. I know it could work, but I also know there is no way a million pool players are going to send me $10. They don't trust anyone, or better yet they have trusted the wrong people in the past and got burnt.

A lot of things have held back the game for many years. I've said it before and I'll say it again, "There are two things in life that are hard to overcome and they are greed and stupidity." Whether it was done on purpose or simply by accident the people that have had the power and the say as to what goes on in the game of pool have done a major diservice to both the game and the people that have dedicated their lives to playing the game.

It's not to late but it's never going to change until we get together and show the business world we are a force.

jdxprs
03-16-2010, 10:19 PM
There's just no interest. No demand for it.


I have stepped away from the game and away from the pool world for long enough periods of time where I could clear my mind and get a proper perspective.

That said, no one really cares about pool. There are local or region tours, like the Seminole Tour (Florida Pro Tour). How many people show up to that? Hardly any. Even among all the amateur players and lovers of the game - only a fraction, a small one at that, shows up to watch these events. And that's when it's local. Forget having to drive out someplace, pay for lodging etcetera.

What you see at major events is nothing more than all the hard core enthusiasts and lovers of the game. Such as at the SBE, events in Vegas, or big tourneys. Many of whom are some how tied to the industry. Which in my opinion, disqualifies them as being categorized as fans. The idea being, pool needs support by a fan base other than industry people. There's no rush at the door of any professional event in pool.

Imagine 25,000 people wanting to attend the US Open, but there's only room at the event center for 10,000. Would be quite a venue. Ticket prices would climb. It would be large enough to get TV coverage at the least on some cable channel as a rerun at worst. Someone would sponsor it other than billiard industry. The cable sports channel would pay to have it, rather than get paid to run it. Pool pays for pool on TV which is why 100% of the commercials during televised pool are billiard industry commercials. The influx of fans would generate business for local hotels/motels, restaurants etcetera. Who would then get on board....Another thing, if 25,000 people wanted to show, that means 10x as many or more WILL BE watching it or wanting to watch it on TV. For every 1 that shows, there's at least 10 that want to see it on the tube.


You can talk big sponsors all you want. Choose any big corporation. Why would they spend their money sponsoring pool? They sponsor sports because it's an advertisement for them. For advertising to work, it requires exposure. How many eyeballs are going to see a sponsor's banner at a pool tournament? Not many. I don't care if you stream it on the web.

It's not enough eyes to justify the kind of money you folks are talking about. That money is better spent on sports that get on TV or have huge following.

That's what I'm talking about when it comes to perspective. Too many people in the "pool world" get their mind clouded up thinking pool is a lot bigger than it really is. It isn't. It's small.


The fact remains, money has to come from somewhere. In all other sports, it ultimately comes from the fans. A sport needs many paying fans for sponsors to jump on board. Those sponsors aren't doing it for free. When they sponsor, they advertise. They expect those ads and that sponsorship to translate into profits/sales. Fans buy their products or services.

So, where are all the pool fans? Hardly any.

A note on participation - that is what dooms pool. It's the easiest game to participate in. Also the cheapest. Just drive to the local pool hall and pay your $8/hr on a Friday night prime time. That's dirt cheap peanuts compared to anything else.

While we the players understand the eliteness and excellence of what top play is like and how hard it is to achieve, the average person has no clue.

Therefore, pool has no "awe" to it. People tend to follow and ultimately worship sports and athletes that do things they consider super human. It gets into the psychology of sports and sports history going all the way back to the ancient Olympics.

Pool is one of the hardest sports (or games) to gain an understanding for its difficulty. Also, people don't respect a table game in a bar or pool hall in the same way, one that they can play themselves whenever.

Even if they haven't played pool, it looks easy or silly to them. In the psyche of the masses, it doesn't appear difficult or something that requires a lifetime of training to reach an elite level.

Whereas, these same people probably tossed a baseball around even if they didn't play organized baseball as a youth. They know it's something special to be able to throw a 100mph fast ball AND hit the strike zone. They know how impressive it is for a golfer to drive the ball hundreds of hards AND be that accurate or to nail a 45ft putt on a slanted green. Or to kick a 52 yard field goal.....

The examples go on and on.


Finally, there's the excitement factor. Pool just isn't exciting for the average person. The same can be said of golf, but golf has it going in one critical area that makes up for the lack of items below - it has an incredible perception among the masses of being an extremely difficult and skilled game. Which it is. So much so, that becoming a pro, in the view of the fans, separates you in talent and qualities as a human being. Getting back to that super human ability perception. A tiny bit of that can be found in pool - only among hard core pool fans (the average banger has no clue who these people are)...such as amazing play by Efren Reyes, huge straight pool runs by Schmidt, 3-cushion play by Sayginer...There's no doubt many of us in the pool world feel that these people possess something that we will never possess. Now, take that feeling and multiply it by millions and you have the fans of golf, tennis, baseball, football, basketball.....

this is a well written, intelligent and well thought out response. i bet if we search hard enough we could find an almost identical post in a poker forum somewhere, written about 10 years ago.

the fanbase has to be grown. the way to do that is through exposure. just like poker has done. maybe you pay espn to air it for the first couple years. then maybe the ratings come, and espn starts paying the tour for the right to air the events.

CreeDo
03-16-2010, 10:41 PM
I think we're looking at money and sponsorship issues. I can't believe ALL of the players and organizers and personalities lack brains and ambition.

Money and sponsorship come from interest (spectator and players), not vice versa. Toyota and Budweiser didn't start out sponsoring smalltime unpopular activities and singlehandedly take them nationwide. They had to get popular on their own and then companies jumped on the chance to advertise to the millions of eyeballs who were ALREADY watching. For some reason we can't get eyeballs glued to the TV sets.

Maybe it's a lack of getting sht together... I dunno. It's silly that you could find twice as much women's pool as men's pool on ESPN. And I feel like the right people could make pool's various personalities more interesting. If we can make a show about random strangers moving in together seem engaging, why can't we get someone to watch earl every week?

jdxprs
03-16-2010, 10:47 PM
I think we're looking at money and sponsorship issues. I can't believe ALL of the players and organizers and personalities lack brains and ambition.

Money and sponsorship come from interest (spectator and players), not vice versa. Toyota and Budweiser didn't start out sponsoring smalltime unpopular activities and singlehandedly take them nationwide. They had to get popular on their own and then companies jumped on the chance to advertise to the millions of eyeballs who were ALREADY watching. For some reason we can't get eyeballs glued to the TV sets.

Maybe it's a lack of getting sht together... I dunno. It's silly that you could find twice as much women's pool as men's pool on ESPN. And I feel like the right people could make pool's various personalities more interesting. If we can make a show about random strangers moving in together seem engaging, why can't we get someone to watch earl every week?


pool isnt a smalltime unpopular activity. if the information of when a big tournament was on t.v. was out there, lets say 20% of league players would tune in. I think espn 2 would accept those kind of ratings. the conduit to get the information out there is already in place. pool leagues. cut a small time advertising deal with apa, tap, bca etc. all they have to do is put out a flyer to include in the folders.

If you find the right company to sponsor it, 3 million is a drop in the bucket. not much more than an easy write off.

Masayoshi
03-16-2010, 10:51 PM
I think a big problem with pool on TV is the format. They show whole matches in one go. While that is interesting to a fan of the sport, most people would rather watch grass grow than watch Ralph Souquet run out 5 mickey mouse racks. I think if they stuck to showing highlights of a whole tournament like golf and poker do, it would get much better ratings, but that of course would require more cameras, and a good TV director, both of which require money that pool does not have.

JMuck
03-16-2010, 11:32 PM
There's just no interest. No demand for it.


I have stepped away from the game and away from the pool world for long enough periods of time where I could clear my mind and get a proper perspective.

That said, no one really cares about pool. There are local or region tours, like the Seminole Tour (Florida Pro Tour). How many people show up to that? Hardly any. Even among all the amateur players and lovers of the game - only a fraction, a small one at that, shows up to watch these events. And that's when it's local. Forget having to drive out someplace, pay for lodging etcetera.

What you see at major events is nothing more than all the hard core enthusiasts and lovers of the game. Such as at the SBE, events in Vegas, or big tourneys. Many of whom are some how tied to the industry. Which in my opinion, disqualifies them as being categorized as fans. The idea being, pool needs support by a fan base other than industry people. There's no rush at the door of any professional event in pool.

Imagine 25,000 people wanting to attend the US Open, but there's only room at the event center for 10,000. Would be quite a venue. Ticket prices would climb. It would be large enough to get TV coverage at the least on some cable channel as a rerun at worst. Someone would sponsor it other than billiard industry. The cable sports channel would pay to have it, rather than get paid to run it. Pool pays for pool on TV which is why 100% of the commercials during televised pool are billiard industry commercials. The influx of fans would generate business for local hotels/motels, restaurants etcetera. Who would then get on board....Another thing, if 25,000 people wanted to show, that means 10x as many or more WILL BE watching it or wanting to watch it on TV. For every 1 that shows, there's at least 10 that want to see it on the tube.


You can talk big sponsors all you want. Choose any big corporation. Why would they spend their money sponsoring pool? They sponsor sports because it's an advertisement for them. For advertising to work, it requires exposure. How many eyeballs are going to see a sponsor's banner at a pool tournament? Not many. I don't care if you stream it on the web.

It's not enough eyes to justify the kind of money you folks are talking about. That money is better spent on sports that get on TV or have huge following.

That's what I'm talking about when it comes to perspective. Too many people in the "pool world" get their mind clouded up thinking pool is a lot bigger than it really is. It isn't. It's small.


The fact remains, money has to come from somewhere. In all other sports, it ultimately comes from the fans. A sport needs many paying fans for sponsors to jump on board. Those sponsors aren't doing it for free. When they sponsor, they advertise. They expect those ads and that sponsorship to translate into profits/sales. Fans buy their products or services.

So, where are all the pool fans? Hardly any.

A note on participation - that is what dooms pool. It's the easiest game to participate in. Also the cheapest. Just drive to the local pool hall and pay your $8/hr on a Friday night prime time. That's dirt cheap peanuts compared to anything else.

While we the players understand the eliteness and excellence of what top play is like and how hard it is to achieve, the average person has no clue.

Therefore, pool has no "awe" to it. People tend to follow and ultimately worship sports and athletes that do things they consider super human. It gets into the psychology of sports and sports history going all the way back to the ancient Olympics.

Pool is one of the hardest sports (or games) to gain an understanding for its difficulty. Also, people don't respect a table game in a bar or pool hall in the same way, one that they can play themselves whenever.

Even if they haven't played pool, it looks easy or silly to them. In the psyche of the masses, it doesn't appear difficult or something that requires a lifetime of training to reach an elite level.

Whereas, these same people probably tossed a baseball around even if they didn't play organized baseball as a youth. They know it's something special to be able to throw a 100mph fast ball AND hit the strike zone. They know how impressive it is for a golfer to drive the ball hundreds of hards AND be that accurate or to nail a 45ft putt on a slanted green. Or to kick a 52 yard field goal.....

The examples go on and on.


Finally, there's the excitement factor. Pool just isn't exciting for the average person. The same can be said of golf, but golf has it going in one critical area that makes up for the lack of items below - it has an incredible perception among the masses of being an extremely difficult and skilled game. Which it is. So much so, that becoming a pro, in the view of the fans, separates you in talent and qualities as a human being. Getting back to that super human ability perception. A tiny bit of that can be found in pool - only among hard core pool fans (the average banger has no clue who these people are)...such as amazing play by Efren Reyes, huge straight pool runs by Schmidt, 3-cushion play by Sayginer...There's no doubt many of us in the pool world feel that these people possess something that we will never possess. Now, take that feeling and multiply it by millions and you have the fans of golf, tennis, baseball, football, basketball.....
This is the single best post I've ever read on AZ.Nobody can come up with answers until the questions are clearly defined.Well done.

Maniac
03-17-2010, 07:13 AM
Then how do you explain the success of golf as a spectator sport?



It's all about perception, my friend. Examples:

Golf: A "gentlemans" game played in the fresh air on beautiful courses neatly manicured. A person often takes his whole family to an event to spectate.

Pool: A game played by a bunch of drunk, loosed-lipped, gambling vagabonds in a seedy, smoky poolhall with dirty chairs, spilt beer and vomit stains on the tables cloth. A place where one's wife and kids will rarely venture.

Now, I know I have exaggerated quite a bit, but part of pools dilemma is that there are still many American citizens that have this perspective on our country's pool scene. We, as pool players, know that the differences in pool and golf are not that far apart, but the average American does not, and that is who we need to win over if pool is ever going to go big-time in this country.

Maniac

DogsPlayingPool
03-17-2010, 07:36 AM
It's all about perception, my friend. Examples:

Golf: A "gentlemans" game played in the fresh air on beautiful courses neatly manicured. A person often takes his whole family to an event to spectate.

Pool: A game played by a bunch of drunk, loosed-lipped, gambling vagabonds in a seedy, smoky poolhall with dirty chairs, spilt beer and vomit stains on the tables cloth. A place where one's wife and kids will rarely venture.

Now, I know I have exaggerated quite a bit, but part of pools dilemma is that there are still many American citizens that have this perspective on our country's pool scene. We, as pool players, know that the differences in pool and golf are not that far apart, but the average American does not, and that is who we need to win over if pool is ever going to go big-time in this country.

Maniac

Well, I agree with everything you just said, except I would argue about your claims of exaggeration. :grin:

However, what you say really only explains some of the reasons why non-fans support golf but not pool. I was responding to your theory about why pool players don't support the pro game like so many golfers support theirs. Pool players don't have the aversions to the smoke, cussing, gambling and vomit surrounding pool. :thumbup:

cajunfats
03-17-2010, 09:49 AM
For all the reasons listed in the thread pro pool is an irrelevant fringe activity in the mind of the average American. If I may be so bold I will go so far as to say that the only future the game has is in projects like Earl Munson's high school program in Dallas and my program in Pasadena Texas. Nobody cares about pro pool because most don't have enough knowledge about it to appreciate it. The future is in getting pool on to high school campuses and/or creating rooms for juniors that do not involve drinking, smoking and/or gambling.Back in the 90's when tasked with developing the BCA Summer Cue Camps,I was mildly chastized by some Pool Room Operators who wanted to host the event. I was commited to having these camps take place in College/University settings. The intent was to provide a vehicle to develop pool towards acceptance at the Middle School/High School level as a participatory sport. The BCA had me start with a Zero Budget,and it had to be self sufficient the first year. It was a challenge,but the camp was a success for the kids. Don't take my word for it,ask Sarah Rousey,she was there. The idea was to form a plan to use as a positive model to present to Schools across the country for just what you are doing today. I agree that the foundation must be built from the bottom up,not the top down. When schools develop team spirit for the players,they will travel to away matches and this in turn builds interest among spectators suporting their school. Rivalries are good,it is what drives competition,and the enjoyment of watching. I would love to see LSU play Texas in Pocket Billiards. Again,you both are doing a great job at developing your programs towards pool from the fringe to the mainstream. God Bless You Both.

cajunfats
03-17-2010, 09:52 AM
Which casino did you work for?Coushatta Casino Resort in Kinder. They just held the ACS State Tournament there. They set up 40 tables in the Pavilion.

cajunfats
03-17-2010, 09:56 AM
[/B]
I'm in for $10.00. Anybody else?Thanks Measureman,I'm chunking Ten in the kitty also!!:thumbup:

cajunfats
03-17-2010, 10:37 AM
[/B]There's just no interest. No demand for it.
The demand must be created. That's the challenge.

I have stepped away from the game and away from the pool world for long enough periods of time where I could clear my mind and get a proper perspective.
I have done the same also. You are right. It gives you the chance to re-evaluate everything you know.

That said, no one really cares about pool. There are local or region tours, like the Seminole Tour (Florida Pro Tour). How many people show up to that? Hardly any. Even among all the amateur players and lovers of the game - only a fraction, a small one at that, shows up to watch these events. And that's when it's local. Forget having to drive out someplace, pay for lodging etcetera.
Pool is not a spectator sport at this moment in time. That is what must be built,and these Pro Tours are not the way to do it. Even the WPBA hasn't increased viewer interest at events to a really substantial number. Look at how much they are on ESPN. TV is not the future.Internet,IPOD,text messaging just might be.

What you see at major events is nothing more than all the hard core enthusiasts and lovers of the game. Such as at the SBE, events in Vegas, or big tourneys. Many of whom are some how tied to the industry. Which in my opinion, disqualifies them as being categorized as fans. The idea being, pool needs support by a fan base other than industry people. There's no rush at the door of any professional event in pool.
I totally agree!

Imagine 25,000 people wanting to attend the US Open, but there's only room at the event center for 10,000. Would be quite a venue. Ticket prices would climb. It would be large enough to get TV coverage at the least on some cable channel as a rerun at worst. Someone would sponsor it other than billiard industry. The cable sports channel would pay to have it, rather than get paid to run it. Pool pays for pool on TV which is why 100% of the commercials during televised pool are billiard industry commercials. The influx of fans would generate business for local hotels/motels, restaurants etcetera. Who would then get on board....Another thing, if 25,000 people wanted to show, that means 10x as many or more WILL BE watching it or wanting to watch it on TV. For every 1 that shows, there's at least 10 that want to see it on the tube.Again,TV is passe'. See above.


You can talk big sponsors all you want. Choose any big corporation. Why would they spend their money sponsoring pool? They sponsor sports because it's an advertisement for them. For advertising to work, it requires exposure. How many eyeballs are going to see a sponsor's banner at a pool tournament? Not many. I don't care if you stream it on the web.Marketing is the fit between the sponsor and the consumer. There are millions of products of the same name brands bought by the millions who play pool. Whether it's a Beer,Cola,Energy Drink,or Toilet Paper,we buy stuff. That equals clout. We haven't located our clout yet,but it is out there. For the record,I watched the WPBA Livestream,along with the BigEasy(BigTruck)Livestream,and monitored AZ and saw Hundreds of Ads from Companies I never heard of.

It's not enough eyes to justify the kind of money you folks are talking about. That money is better spent on sports that get on TV or have huge following.

That's what I'm talking about when it comes to perspective. Too many people in the "pool world" get their mind clouded up thinking pool is a lot bigger than it really is. It isn't. It's small.I dare say that more people play pool in China on a weekend than play all Professional Sports games in a year. Check BBIA(Bowling and Billiard Institute)for stats on American participation,you may be surprised.


The fact remains, money has to come from somewhere. In all other sports, it ultimately comes from the fans. A sport needs many paying fans for sponsors to jump on board. Those sponsors aren't doing it for free. When they sponsor, they advertise. They expect those ads and that sponsorship to translate into profits/sales. Fans buy their products or services.Check the BCA Trade Show statistics for more accurate figures on the state of the Billiard Industry.

So, where are all the pool fans? Hardly any.
True.

A note on participation - that is what dooms pool. It's the easiest game to participate in. Also the cheapest. Just drive to the local pool hall and pay your $8/hr on a Friday night prime time. That's dirt cheap peanuts compared to anything else.
Compared to a Movie,which like my pool game,may suck. Add Drink and Popcorn,$$$. Good Point.

While we the players understand the eliteness and excellence of what top play is like and how hard it is to achieve, the average person has no clue.Very,Very True!! That's a mission for us to develop the understanding from the youth upwards.

Therefore, pool has no "awe" to it. People tend to follow and ultimately worship sports and athletes that do things they consider super human. It gets into the psychology of sports and sports history going all the way back to the ancient Olympics.
Again,build understanding of the intricacies,and challenges of excellence.

Pool is one of the hardest sports (or games) to gain an understanding for its difficulty. Also, people don't respect a table game in a bar or pool hall in the same way, one that they can play themselves whenever.

Even if they haven't played pool, it looks easy or silly to them. In the psyche of the masses, it doesn't appear difficult or something that requires a lifetime of training to reach an elite level.
[COLOR="royalblue"]I agree wholeheartedly!!! TV has ruined the ability for the average viewer to understand how extremely difficult it is to play. By showcasing our best players,the viewer is lulled into a series of runouts,and with short attention span,gets bored.Again,Education of the Masses.[COLOR="royalblue"]

Whereas, these same people probably tossed a baseball around even if they didn't play organized baseball as a youth. They know it's something special to be able to throw a 100mph fast ball AND hit the strike zone. They know how impressive it is for a golfer to drive the ball hundreds of hards AND be that accurate or to nail a 45ft putt on a slanted green. Or to kick a 52 yard field goal.....

The examples go on and on.


Finally, there's the excitement factor. Pool just isn't exciting for the average person. The same can be said of golf, but golf has it going in one critical area that makes up for the lack of items below - it has an incredible perception among the masses of being an extremely difficult and skilled game. Which it is. So much so, that becoming a pro, in the view of the fans, separates you in talent and qualities as a human being. Getting back to that super human ability perception. A tiny bit of that can be found in pool - only among hard core pool fans (the average banger has no clue who these people are)...such as amazing play by Efren Reyes, huge straight pool runs by Schmidt, 3-cushion play by Sayginer...There's no doubt many of us in the pool world feel that these people possess something that we will never possess. Now, take that feeling and multiply it by millions and you have the fans of golf, tennis, baseball, football, basketball.....
That is why Tiger Woods will come back to the Master's and 30 million people will turn on the TV and watch. We just don't have enough scandal in Pool!! That's the panacea for Professional Sports!!
It was a very interesting post. Thanks for your indulgence.

LowRight
03-17-2010, 10:38 AM
There's just no interest. No demand for it......

I, unfortunately, agree with your post.

And yet, pool and billiards were HUGE before World War II. Matches appeared as the top headlines on the sports pages and lots of people followed the game at the professional level because they played the game seriously themselves. After the war, men went to college on the GI Bill, got married, and had kids (so no more time for pool or billiards). At the same time, television hit and turned the masses into couch potatoes. Instead of going out to the pool halls, they could be entertained in their own family rooms. And now we have hundreds of channels to choose from, the Internet, etc.

No one is going to follow professional pool who has never played the game with some seriousness at some point in their lives. Most people have played only as a lark at the local bar or banged balls around on a crappy table in their basements as kids. They never get past the beginner stage. I think the only chance to create a real revival of the game is to develop youth programs that teach kids the game and allow them to compete. This has been going on in Europe for quite some time. IMHO, this is one of the areas in which the BCA has let the game down.

CrownCityCorey
03-21-2010, 09:24 AM
Perhaps the largest issue hindering a Pro Tour is that a Professional Billiards Tour's audience must be built - which costs a great deal of money to do.

In the sporting markets, with regards to marketing and advertising (sponsorships), there are far better investments to be made (proven economics and reduced risk).

So the toughest question to answer for everyone involved is, why bother with pool?

Also all involved in making such a thing happen, Pro Pool, must want it - essentially driven by passion for the sport, and must over-extend themselves in some manner to achieve such a goal. There is no short-term payoff here. Otherwise it won't happen.

Even lifetime committed industry members have shown that they have no interest in supporting such an effort as it conflicts with their goals. Some of the biggest potential supporters enjoy being big fish in a little pond and have no interest in creating competition for themselves by opening up our markets... unfortunate...

DogsPlayingPool
03-21-2010, 09:56 AM
Even lifetime committed industry members have shown that they have no interest in supporting such an effort as it conflicts with their goals. Some of the biggest potential supporters enjoy being big fish in a little pond and have no interest in creating competition for themselves by opening up our markets... unfortunate...

True that.

CocoboloCowboy
03-21-2010, 10:16 AM
IMHO this subject is talk about a lot, Corporate America Support what will give them the largest return on their advertising dollar. Bean counters know about CREDIT SCORES, and this is why PGA Golf get all the support, as Golfers on the AVERAGE Spend more money of their sport than Pool Players do annually per individual. Plus Golfers have more FREE INCOME to spend.

Honestly if you were going to start a business would you not want to build a product that would be wanted by the largest audience, not a select few?

FrogKissin
03-21-2010, 12:41 PM
so based on prize money alone, the tour would need about 3 million. nascar has the SPRINT cup. seems to me, an international company should be willing to sponsor something like this for such a small amount.

the other 7 million you speak of is for renting facilities, equipment and things of that nature?

what are the best 25 pool rooms in the country? this could be an interesting way to do the tour and keep costs more reasonable. events could be bracketed into different days the way the world series of poker is now.

a large hotel/casino would be an obvious choice for a championship end of year event. shouldnt be too hard to find a hotel casino looking for an outragous number of gambling pool players.

If you or someone ever puts a tour such as this together, call me! With 25 years in pool and having had 2+ years experience working as the WPBA's Office/Event Administrator, I think I could lend a hand, so could 100 others who have been involved with pocket billiards forever and a day with more experience than I have!

As for the Hotel/Casino and pool rooms, not so easy but doable. Casino's need a good return on their investment - Just use the WPBA as an example - If you expect the Casino/Hotel to put up capital of any kind, the return numbers had better be there or it won't work. You'd also best be prepared to offer TV coverage or very high quality Web coverage. Oh the endless possibilities - One of my dreams has always been to work a tour like the one you're talking about :) Good luck!

z28flash
03-21-2010, 01:34 PM
I agree with most of what the previous threads have stated. Although a substantial number of people have played pool, few have the interest to watch a match on TV.

For the comparisons with golf....let us remember that Corporate leaders play and conduct business on the golf course, not the local pool hall. You can bet if the CEO of a large corporation plays golf, that company is much more likely to support golf events. Unfortunately, those same CEOs do not conduct business shooting 8-ball over a few beers at the local tavern.

Then, speaking of Tiger Woods. How many people watch Tiger Woods play golf, as opposed to just watching golf? The image of Tiger is what has driven an increase in golf. Will this coming Master's be one of the most watched of all time? Probably....because of Tiger, not just golf. Unfortunately again, billiards does not have that successful image...the individual most close to that would be Jeanette Lee, and she is still unknown to many pool players, let alone the general population.

I thought on a recent thread that using APA membership fees to support the WPBA is a good idea, as it helps defray expenses, could increase prize funds, and possibly improve marketing. On the other side, if the WPBA became a public corporation, how many shares of $10 stock could be sold to we billiard players?

Although there are significant expense issues, the involvement of the Asian countries could be extremely beneficial to the WPBA. Tournaments in China and the Philippines do have the type of exposure desired here, both in TV coverage and paid spectators....plus, they are operated like you would prefer a large tournament event to be run, because in those countries, it is a major event. Not involving the money and exposure that Asian countries can bring to the game would be, in my opinion, very remiss.

In regards to the WPBA, I know the earlier thread after the Viejas tournament has somewhat died. However, all the speculation on John Rousseau could have been minimized if perhaps he had a better introduction to the billiard community, and certainly if he bore a more professional appearance. I was appalled to see him at the tournament in jeans, tennis shoes, and a flimsy shirt....certainly he did not project any professionalism to the event, one in which the participating women try to look good for the betterment of the sport. For his first WPBA event, it seems to me he should have been much more involved with the spectators, as well as being dressed in at least casual business attire.

There are methods that could bring billiards more to the forefront of the public, but reality must be accounted for, and the simple fact is that although billiards in the US may have a few current successful events, unless a 5 to 10 year marketing plan is created with international and technological involvement, billiards will remain a struggling sport. I believe there was a reference to poker, but again, I feel the majority of viewers do not watch poker games for the sake of poker, they watch to see the players. Sell the players and you can sell the game.

pooladdiction
03-21-2010, 02:42 PM
Love this thread! I could talk for hours about this subject, but I will try to keep this one relatively short.

Let me just say this, how did poker do it? I love the idea of starting school programs for pool and I think long term that will generate much interest. Poker didn't do that. Poker has colorful characters but as great as some of the old timers like Doyle Brunson are they didn't get it done either. So how did poker shortcut the long drawn out process of drumming up interest? With one single movie, Rounders. It was a perfect storm. The nation loved the movie and appealed to the gambler in all of us. Then, some very smart people at casinos, The World Poker Tour and ESPN got together and struck while the iron was hot. This is what should have been done after The Color of Money came out. It's widely known that demand for home pool tables as well as other billiard products increased nearly ten fold after the release of that movie. That would have been the perfect oportunity to start a tour. Maybe we just need another great pool movie to come out? I think Kid Deliscious' story would make for a great movie if it's done well.

I also think there is a much wider appeal to this beyond America. I stated this in another thread. You have to think about appealing to the masses. Don't just broadcast 9-ball. What about an end of the year championship over the course of a couple of weeks in let's say 3 different disciplines. Take 9 ball, 3 cushion and snooker as examples. Do you think that would drum up interest worldwide?

Hypothetical here for a moment. A great movie comes out staring Jack Black as Danny Basavich. It's a hit! All kinds of pool tables and billiard products are being sold at record numbers. People are flocking to the casinos and pools halls all trying to be the next pool hustler much like many were trying to be the Joe blow nobody who makes millions that playing a game that requires nearly no physical talent.

Ive heard it said on here that people wouldn't watch pool because they perceive it as easy. I contend that is exactly what would make this game popular. It's the everymans game. It doesn't matter if you're a woman or a man, old, young, skinny, fat or even in a wheelchair, anyone can excel at this game. Don't belive me. How many people would watch Lebron James play basketball and say " I can do that" and then proceed to join a cash bAsketball tourny the next day. Now how many of us (including myself) saw a bunch of average overweight Joe nobodies at the poker table making millions and said "I can do that" and immediately proceed to their nearest casino. This can be done and I for one really hope it does. So much for keeping it short;)

DogsPlayingPool
03-21-2010, 04:49 PM
Actually, poker had been around on TV for a while before it got hot. ESPN did the World Series much like it does pool now. The fact is, it was boring to watch and really only appealed to a fringe audience.

Hollywood had little if anything to do with it. What suddenly made poker interesting to watch for so many people is quite simple: the "hole cards" camera.

jdxprs
03-21-2010, 05:19 PM
ive always believed one of the things that made poker so popular was chris moneymaker.

he came out of nowhere as an amatuer player to win the series. he got his entry from playing and winning an online tourny.

i think people saw that and thought.... if he can do it, why cant i?