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jaycast16
04-12-2010, 11:23 PM
Does anybody knows of there is any schedule of qualifier for the upcoming Canadians?It is only 2 months away from now and yet i haven't heard any qualifiers.I want to ask Steve C. but im not sure if he log in here that often.

Jason Robichaud
04-13-2010, 06:17 AM
I don't think Steve Cooper is responsible for holding qualifiers for each prov. You should be asking who ever looks after events in Ontario. Here in NB we know our qualifiers in Sept for the entire year. NS is the same, not sure why other provinces don't do the same.

I think the CBSA looks after allocating spots to provinces, running the Canadians and sending people to worlds. They don't do local events. Its like the WPA and worlds, they don't come to Canada and hold qualifiers, that is the roll of the CBSA.

That said, pool in Canada sucks. It is too big and not enough organization. Maybe the CBSA should take a stronger roll, only problem is, how would they get paid for their time? I don't think Cooper could fly to ON, PQ, BC, AB etc to run monthly qualifiers and it is hard finding local people to work for free.

The CBSA has a link available to each province (a flag). This is where information should be available! How many provinces actually use it?

D_Lewis
04-13-2010, 11:44 AM
If the qualifiers are being run like they were last year, I am not surprised that you havent heard anything.

Odie Willet has to be the worst person in the world for trying to keep people happy and wanting to continue to support pool. Acted like a complete child during one of the qualifiers because people asked a few questions. With all of the other problems Ive heard, it seems like its time for other people to be running everything rather then the current board.

Philthepockets
04-13-2010, 11:55 AM
Here we go again eh :rolleyes: I made my thoughts clear last year on the situation in Canada on how the organizations are run so I will not go off on another rant. However In my mind the CBSA should provide a budget to the Provincial associations and compel them to run qualifiers, qualifiers that make it worthwhile showing up otherwise we will just have another "Ontario Open".

samurai
04-13-2010, 01:37 PM
If the qualifiers are being run like they were last year, I am not surprised that you havent heard anything.

Odie Willet has to be the worst person in the world for trying to keep people happy and wanting to continue to support pool. Acted like a complete child during one of the qualifiers because people asked a few questions. With all of the other problems Ive heard, it seems like its time for other people to be running everything rather then the current board.

After a lot of soul searching, I had decided to run for the board last year for the position that was "VIRTUALLY" given to Odie on a silver platter(old boys club, not Cooper's fault). He convinced people that he was a better choice and my nomination didn't even get mentioned from what I understand, if I am wrong then I stand corrected.

In Cooper's defence (and the rest of the board minus one)they are doing a thankless job for FREE! If anyone has any CONSTRUCTIVE criticism then step up to the plate and be part of the solution rather than supporting the ongoing CBSA bashing!

I know of several people who have tried to organise a series of qualifiers in Ontario in past years, and the most that have ever shown up to participate is too embarrassing to mention. Which is why those who can, have given up on wasting their time and energy! It is the responsibility of all of us who play, to assist by just simply SHOWING UP!

Grace Nakamura

Philthepockets
04-13-2010, 01:44 PM
I don't know about round your way but here in BC I showed up and so did 17 other die hards, in spite of playing for "nothing"

If you accept a position on a board of an organization you accept the thankless responsibility of promoting and moving a sport forward, blaming the peasants for the kings failures is not how it goes. Build it and they will come $$$$$ otherwise...........

samurai
04-13-2010, 04:53 PM
I don't know about round your way but here in BC I showed up and so did 17 other die hards, in spite of playing for "nothing"

If you accept a position on a board of an organization you accept the thankless responsibility of promoting and moving a sport forward, blaming the peasants for the kings failures is not how it goes. Build it and they will come $$$$$ otherwise...........

In this case you are wrong several have tried to build qualifiers, but to no avail, so those with any motivation to put forth an effort to do so, have given up. You can lead a horse to water.........

In this case the peasants (as you put it) are a huge part of the problem. Without our help and involvement, CBSA can only do so much.

Philthepockets
04-13-2010, 05:16 PM
Ok, if the qualifiers paid an all inclusive trip, entry fees and $2000 and the Canadian Snooker Championship had a prize fund of $100,000 you tell me honestly that players won't show up ? :thumbup:

scsuxci
04-14-2010, 09:10 AM
Anyone who believes no one got a dime on that board is in lala land.There's always a way of screwing the system and when it comes to most of those members on the board the toolbox is full with some of the biggest tools of all.And for choosing Odie over Grace is point proven ,that their's a lack of brain power. And putting in somebody that might clean it up would go against their better laid plans for the future.Is it promoting pool or promoting why pool in Canada is where it is?:boring2:

jaycast16
04-14-2010, 09:58 PM
Grace,what should it take to get Odie's a$$ out of his position so you can replace him to better our favorite sport?If there is no qualifier means players have to pay their entry in full.If this happens i won't be surprise if nobody or not too many players will show up.This is really sad that a lot of us want to improve pool in this country but those people whose in the position to make this happen just failed us!

samurai
04-15-2010, 03:07 AM
Grace,what should it take to get Odie's a$$ out of his position so you can replace him to better our favorite sport?If there is no qualifier means players have to pay their entry in full.If this happens i won't be surprise if nobody or not too many players will show up.This is really sad that a lot of us want to improve pool in this country but those people whose in the position to make this happen just failed us!

Hi Jay,

Thanks for your support. Last year I approached OBSA(Odie) with an offer to run a series of qualifiers with ADDED money already confirmed, and I was met with nothing but disdain and negativity because I told them that I wouldn't do it for free. For our time and efforts, we would take a percentage of the added money to pay myself and Don Broos. They gave me nothing but grief and had the audacity to ask, "Are you sure you can do this?". As stated, over half of the added money (most from US companies wanting to get their product in Canada) was already confirmed at the time!

At that point I looked at Don and then turned to Odie and told him he was on his own, and that I wasn't going to waste my time with them. The result, only a handful of qualifiers last year at the last minute.

I will always support the efforts of people like Coop, and the true lovers of our sport, but we need to weed out the dead weight!

samurai
04-15-2010, 03:16 AM
Grace,what should it take to get Odie's a$$ out of his position so you can replace him to better our favorite sport?If there is no qualifier means players have to pay their entry in full.If this happens i won't be surprise if nobody or not too many players will show up.This is really sad that a lot of us want to improve pool in this country but those people whose in the position to make this happen just failed us!

I honestly don't know what it would take, because it is such a tight knit old boys club. I would have to have someone nominate me, and another to second it. I had spoken to a guy from out west who told me to my face that he would definitly submit my nomination, and I had someone to second it. Odie then went and spoke to the same guy and turned him around, so my nomination didn't even make it to the floor!

Jason Robichaud
04-15-2010, 07:35 AM
run qualifiers to make money? why not run qualifiers to qualify people. I think that is why not much gets done in Ontario. People are sitting back figuring ways to make money running something rather than holding qualifiers (only guessing).

The people that can make money here are, halls. Select 3 or 4 halls, get them to pay a membership to hold 16 qualifiers and have no buy-ins to the Canadians. Pay $30 for a computer program to run the draw and brackets(don't have to worry about a TD taking 20%), $50 entry for open players and $30 for others. Say 4 halls - 16 events would be 4 events each. have them pay $500 to hold events (covers all 4 events). Entry breakdown, $10 to fund (Canadian spots) $5 to hall, rest in prize money.

At the end of the year you would have $2000 from the halls.
40 players at $10 each is $400 per event - 16 events $6400
total would be $8400 to pay for spots.
Hold a provincial championship with spots
404 finals get spots etc.

Coop does a lot for pool here in NB and doesn't get money for doing it. He travels 4 hours or more puts in 12+ hours running the event etc. He gets nothing and we get canadian spots and a provincial tour to play every two weeks.

The biggest problem you guys have isn't Coop, it's that you don't have Coop in your province.

Danktrees
04-15-2010, 10:21 AM
i dont see what the problem is if shes only taking the added money. even then its only half of it. if she went thru the trouble of organizing it and managing to find u.s. sponsors then she deserves something. i dont see anyone else bringing in sponsors right now.

Jason Robichaud
04-15-2010, 01:07 PM
i dont see what the problem is if shes only taking the added money. even then its only half of it. if she went thru the trouble of organizing it and managing to find u.s. sponsors then she deserves something. i dont see anyone else bringing in sponsors right now.

Don't see problem, did she get voted in? If someone is there making money, they are not going to step aside and let someone else get it.

Danktrees
04-15-2010, 03:09 PM
Don't see problem, did she get voted in? If someone is there making money, they are not going to step aside and let someone else get it.

well i was really only responding to ur post right above mine where it seems like u were voicing ur disapproval of her taking some of the added money from the sponsors. im just saying that if thats the case then to me at least, it's not a big deal since she's the one bringing the sponsors in. she's the one that will have to deal with them and be responsible to them if something goes wrong. so i dont see why she wouldnt get some of the sponsor money.

but as for what u just said, i do agree that if someone is already making money then they wouldnt be willing to step aside. but then again that's part of the problem.

samurai
04-15-2010, 03:11 PM
run qualifiers to make money? why not run qualifiers to qualify people. I think that is why not much gets done in Ontario. People are sitting back figuring ways to make money running something rather than holding qualifiers (only guessing).

The people that can make money here are, halls. Select 3 or 4 halls, get them to pay a membership to hold 16 qualifiers and have no buy-ins to the Canadians. Pay $30 for a computer program to run the draw and brackets(don't have to worry about a TD taking 20%), $50 entry for open players and $30 for others. Say 4 halls - 16 events would be 4 events each. have them pay $500 to hold events (covers all 4 events). Entry breakdown, $10 to fund (Canadian spots) $5 to hall, rest in prize money.

At the end of the year you would have $2000 from the halls.
40 players at $10 each is $400 per event - 16 events $6400
total would be $8400 to pay for spots.
Hold a provincial championship with spots
404 finals get spots etc.

Coop does a lot for pool here in NB and doesn't get money for doing it. He travels 4 hours or more puts in 12+ hours running the event etc. He gets nothing and we get canadian spots and a provincial tour to play every two weeks.

The biggest problem you guys have isn't Coop, it's that you don't have Coop in your province.

Hi Jay,
I agree with most of what you are saying, I wish we had Coop here too! However I don't agree with you saying that people should put forth efforts for others with no return. I did not intend to get rich running qualifiers but I do expect to be paid for my time. No one should be EXPECTED to work for free! Organising a successful tour takes a lot time and money.

When I run an event I try to make arrangements so that refs and others do not have to VOLUNTEER their time. In the case of last year I had plenty of added money for the tour which would have allowed me to concentrate on building a tour that would offer expense money for the winners to travel to the Canadians, entry frees to the Canadians, as well as payment for a proper staff to run a series of qualifiers at $25.00 entry fee to the players.

Odie and Terry felt that I wouldn't be able to pull it off, and that they could do a better job so I stepped aside and let them.

I know that Coop doesn't get anything, but he should. He is very fortunate that he has the loyalty of the player base out east. In Ontario, it seems to be $$$$ related as to whether or not players will show.

samurai
04-15-2010, 03:32 PM
Don't see problem, did she get voted in? If someone is there making money, they are not going to step aside and let someone else get it.

You hit the nail on the head Jay! That is why we are going to have to suffer again this year and play on that Milliken cloth (not sure of the spelling, don't like the cloth). Odie is in business with them from what I understand and sells their cloth.

In the past I have been able to get Simonis for any event I organise, with no questions asked and have been nurturing an on going relationship with them for the last 10 years. The president (Ivan Lee)always takes my calls and just simply asks me, "what do you need?" 2 years ago when we had to use that cloth, Simonis was not even contacted to place a bid for the event after years of support, Odie just took it upon himself to go with Milliken.

I actually called Iven Lee personally to apologise for the OVERSIGHT, which is why he gave us Simonis last year. Unfortunatley we are stuck with Milliken again, and again I will have to apologise for Odies's lack of professionalism and common sense.

jaycast16
04-15-2010, 05:08 PM
You hit the nail on the head Jay! That is why we are going to have to suffer again this year and play on that Milliken cloth (not sure of the spelling, don't like the cloth). Odie is in business with them from what I understand and sells their cloth.

In the past I have been able to get Simonis for any event I organise, with no questions asked and have been nurturing an on going relationship with them for the last 10 years. The president (Ivan Lee)always takes my calls and just simply asks me, "what do you need?" 2 years ago when we had to use that cloth, Simonis was not even contacted to place a bid for the event after years of support, Odie just took it upon himself to go with Milliken.

I actually called Iven Lee personally to apologise for the OVERSIGHT, which is why he gave us Simonis last year. Unfortunatley we are stuck with Milliken again, and again I will have to apologisea for Odies's lack of professionalism and common sense.

That sucks if we have to play on the MILIKEN cloth again.I always love SIMONIS.i guess it is the best cloth i played on.

jaycast16
04-15-2010, 05:15 PM
well i was really only responding to ur post right above mine where it seems like u were voicing ur disapproval of her taking some of the added money from the sponsors. im just saying that if thats the case then to me at least, it's not a big deal since she's the one bringing the sponsors in. she's the one that will have to deal with them and be responsible to them if something goes wrong. so i dont see why she wouldnt get some of the sponsor money.

but as for what u just said, i do agree that if someone is already making money then they wouldnt be willing to step aside. but then again that's part of the problem.

I agree with Cedric here.I think it is hard to find a guy like Cooper who volunteer his time for the qualifier/event.There is nothing wrong if they take some money from the sponsors.They worked had for it so they should get something.As long as they are not taking all of the money and someone is getting spot,i have no problem with that.Well that is my opinion.

Danktrees
04-15-2010, 09:02 PM
while i love simonis i personally like granito cloth better. but still, simonis is way up there and is a much better improvement from milliken. plus it's better for everyone if we use simonis cuz after the canadians are over, the simonis will remain on those tables and we can still use it for the rest of the year.

to further the whole getting paid to run the qualifier thing...from what grace has said, it seems that people are still going to get the spots for the same entry fee per qualifier. the only thing that has changed is that there are sponsors and the organizers are getting paid. this is a great thing actually, no money is taken from the players and the qualifiers are guaranteed to go off and be run professionally. cuz i will say this, if u wanna make sure that someone does something correctly, pay them. if they want to continue getting paid, they will continue to do the job correctly. u guys are lucky to have coop who does things for free, but there arent many that are willing to do that. so if we do have to pay them to ensure that everything is run smoothly then it would be perfect if the money was taken from sponsors and not from the players. at it stands, nothing changes with grace's proposal except for the fact that we will have more qualifiers. our money isnt being taken and everything is accounted for. it takes a lot of work and organization to run and develope a whole new system and money is needed to make sure that happens. and if the money isnt coming from our pockets then i dont mind at all that they're taking some of it.

plus, like u said, odie's already making money from it but he's doing a terrible job. i'd rather have someone like grace in there who would do a better job. she certainly knows more about this industry than odie. and all she is getting paid for is her time anyways, its not like she's pocketing a briefcase full of money after each qualifier. and like u said, the people that are currently in those positions won't want to give it up, if thats the case then its up to us as the players to do something about it to force a change. and to a certain extent that has what's been happening. it's being seen as people not supporting the sport, but i think it's more than people are not supporting the people running the sport. cuz u just have to look at the 404 at bigwigs and they constantly get lots of players there playing in it. so u have to wonder why bigwigs is so successful while the canadians seem not to be. plus it's hard to support something thats hardly there. qualifiers are run like 3 weeks before the start of whats supposed to be the biggest tournament in the country. then the tournament comes and it's gone. it's hard to support something thats barely even there. and im not blaming that on anyone but that is what it is. before anyone tells me to go and fix everything i just want to say that it's a problem that grace seems to have at least a partial answer to but she isnt being given the chance. so there it is, we have a solution but from what she has said in her posts, it has been ignored. who's fault that is i dont know...possibly odie's if what grace has said is true.

Jason Robichaud
04-16-2010, 03:46 AM
If someone approached the CBSA with an Ontario association plan, board of directors, structure, sponsors, supporting halls, players support, it would be hard not to elect that new association regardless of who is running Ontario. If the new association didn't get all the spots for Ontario, the CBSA might give them 10 or so to see how they do.

You can't have one person running the show with closed books with players guessing money. I see nothing wrong having someone paid for running such association. The issue with TDs is, the value they seem to give themself. They shouldn't get $500 or $1000 to run one event for 12 hours. They have a day jobs paying $20 an hour (maybe) and at a tournament charge $50-$100 per hour. Let them get paid per player, say $2-5. The more players they call, contact, travel to rooms and talk with to support the association, the more they make. They get rewarded for doing good just like the players.

Structure, elected people and player support is all it takes. Don't expect player support by starting something new, earn it. Good way to start is only try to cover expensies until you know the new association will work and you prove value in what you offer.

sly
04-16-2010, 05:50 AM
who does the actual voting?
do the players have a say? players are the ones paying

Philthepockets
04-16-2010, 08:14 AM
One thing is for sure, they have a long way to go to win the trust of a lot of the players out West. Until they do they will never see us.
Here's what I here from them.
first and foremost "It's not worth my time and my own expense to go to TO"
" The CBSA are all self serving"

For me personally they simply do not listen and are not open to ideas or criticism. Whenever their ability to govern or the state of affairs is questioned, to them it's the players fault and are a bunch of ingrate whiners.

Time for a new regime imo, get the right people and get this game back on track. It makes me sick to see the decline of Snooker in Canada to the point where we cannot even compete internationally at the amateur level. We have been overtaken by many countries where the game never had a long standing tradition. Considering where we were in the 80's with 4 players in the top 16 this is not acceptable.

Mase
04-16-2010, 08:42 AM
Before you crucify Odie, he is the one that is running the snooker in Ontario. He currently has 14 qualifiers for snooker in the Toronto area. They are all listed on Snookerline.com.

There is not a 9-Ball director in Ontario but there are some qualifiers running. Anyone interested in stepping up and running one only needs to contact Odie. It is always easy to critisize but try getting involved and helping the sport in an actual way. Not too many are willing to do that!!

Danktrees
04-16-2010, 01:16 PM
Before you crucify Odie, he is the one that is running the snooker in Ontario. He currently has 14 qualifiers for snooker in the Toronto area. They are all listed on Snookerline.com.

There is not a 9-Ball director in Ontario but there are some qualifiers running. Anyone interested in stepping up and running one only needs to contact Odie. It is always easy to critisize but try getting involved and helping the sport in an actual way. Not too many are willing to do that!!


ummm....from what grace posted, she did contact them. she had sponsorship money and simonis supporting her but was shut down.

terrydavidson
04-16-2010, 03:10 PM
OK, let's get something straight here. I was at the meeting with Grace, Odie and Don and unless my memory has deserted me in my old age I remember that Grace didn't have any GUARANTEED sponsorship money and all she came with to the meeting was a PROPOSAL.

We (the OBSA) were looking for someone to organize ALL of the pool in Ontario, however Grace was unwilling to do that and was only interested in running her own thing (strictly 9-ball and strictly open division).

There was no consideration for the amateur side, 8-ball, 10-ball or juniors.

It's true we don't have a Director of Pool in the OBSA and we've been trying to find someone who is willing to volunteer their time to organize all the events required but no one has ever stepped forward to take on the whole thing.

So PLEASE, quit your moaning regarding pool in Ontario and the OBSA and step up and help us out. We will be having qualifiers in the Silver Tip (once Eddie moves), Milsy's in Kitchener and likely John White will run some at Shooters. However, turn-out for these has been relatively very poor and in order to cover the spots the money comes out of the room owner's pockets or out of the player's pockets.

Snooker is running successfully in Ontario and we wanted to try and get the pool (all disciplines) organized along the same lines however there's just no one to do it (besides Grace of course, but then again we would still need someone to run the rest of it).

Also, there are qualifiers in Sudbury and Ottawa which anyone can get into.

For those who would like to change the OBSA board, PLEASE feel free to do so. All you have to do is pay your membership ($25) and then attend the bi-annual AGM and nominate your own slate of officers. But just remember you have to run EVERYTHING, not only pool but also the snooker as well.

Terry Davidson
Treasurer, OBSA

terrydavidson
04-17-2010, 05:15 AM
And another thing, regardng the Milliken vs Simonis cloths.

It seems the pool players don't care about the whole Canadian Championships but just their piece of it. Last year I'm pretty sure Jim Wych obtained the free pool cloths (plus a bit of sponsorship money I believe) from Simonis however that left John White and Shooters holding the bag on snooker cloths as Simonis wouldn't supply those.

The snooker cloths came at a cost of somewhere around $2,000 for John White.

This year, Odie has arranged for Milliken to supply BOTH the pool and snooker cloths and no one will be out of pocket.

So my question to Grace is...first of all if you have such a great relationship with Simonis then why didn't you step up this year and get free cloths for both snooker and pool? Especially since it appears yourself and a majority of the players prefer the Simonis to the Milliken.

And another point...no one in the CBSA or the OBSA is making any money from running tournaments. So far with the OBSA neither Odie, myself or John Greschner has taken one dime out of any of the player's money and it ALL goes back for the players. Admittedly this has always been snooker money right up until the Canadians because we have never been able to get pool up and running, solely due to a lack of support from ANY of the pool players (with the possible exception of Grace and her offer to run her own system and take a fee and also Mo Seto who also offered to run the women's events). Problem is, we can't have a person running the tournaments and playing in them. I know, I tried this and it doesn't work.

So, here's an appeal from Odie and Terry to all Ontario pool players. If ANYONE wants to run some qualifiers (but not play in his/her own tournaments and not take a TD's fee) then all you have to do is call Odie. This is exactly what we've done with Sudbury and Ottawa.

If the pool players are not happy with the way Ontario is being run for pool then there will be an AGM sometime in Sept/2010 and likely at the first snooker qualifier for the new season. I will be there handing out membership cards and any Ontario resident can join and then at the AGM the pool players can nominate and vote in their own slate of officers if they wish to run against Odie, myself, John Greschner and Pat McCarthy.

However, it would be my preference to split the OBSA into 2 separate organizations reporting to the CBSA. That way we could continue to run the snooker successfully as we've been doing and the pool players would have their own organization to run and qualify players for the Canadians. You could also have Grace get the free Simonis cloths for you.

All I've heard so far is a lot of talk and no action from the pool side of the house. So, WHERE'S THE BEEF??? Anyone care to step up? That first step is paying your membership dues so at least you can have a say (or do you want to sit in the bushes and snipe at people who are actually trying to accomplish something for you?)

Terry Davidson
Treasurer, OBSA

scsuxci
04-17-2010, 05:21 AM
OK, let's get something straight here. I was at the meeting with Grace, Odie and Don and unless my memory has deserted me in my old age I remember that Grace didn't have any GUARANTEED sponsorship money and all she came with to the meeting was a PROPOSAL.

We (the OBSA) were looking for someone to organize ALL of the pool in Ontario, however Grace was unwilling to do that and was only interested in running her own thing (strictly 9-ball and strictly open division).

There was no consideration for the amateur side, 8-ball, 10-ball or juniors.

It's true we don't have a Director of Pool in the OBSA and we've been trying to find someone who is willing to volunteer their time to organize all the events required but no one has ever stepped forward to take on the whole thing.

So PLEASE, quit your moaning regarding pool in Ontario and the OBSA and step up and help us out. We will be having qualifiers in the Silver Tip (once Eddie moves), Milsy's in Kitchener and likely John White will run some at Shooters. However, turn-out for these has been relatively very poor and in order to cover the spots the money comes out of the room owner's pockets or out of the player's pockets.

Snooker is running successfully in Ontario and we wanted to try and get the pool (all disciplines) organized along the same lines however there's just no one to do it (besides Grace of course, but then again we would still need someone to run the rest of it).

Also, there are qualifiers in Sudbury and Ottawa which anyone can get into.

For those who would like to change the OBSA board, PLEASE feel free to do so. All you have to do is pay your membership ($25) and then attend the bi-annual AGM and nominate your own slate of officers. But just remember you have to run EVERYTHING, not only pool but also the snooker as well.

Terry Davidson
Treasurer, OBSA
To tell the players not to show concern or to stop moaning is a laugh.The players are at events to play pool.Without players you have nothing!Players should not have to help run anything,thats like walking into a restaurant and having to cook your own food.Its obvious the members on the board cant handle it and either should run it well or dont run anything at all.Last year was a prime example of the downward spiral it is going.The pool room was hot as hell with no audience and besides the snooker and amateur 9ball the other events had very little participation.My opinion is if the 404 tour can get the people to come out then their is 1 of 2 things.Either the players dont like how it is run or dont like who is running it.Either way its a lose lose situation.Players from the West will never show unless a big change is made and its hard enough to get the players from our own area to join.As far as the Grace thing,when someone makes a proposal that means what their offering is what they have.I dont think Grace would just pick these things out of blue unless she knew she had them.People should put their pride aside and let Grace do what she can.Just because she cant run a load of events shouldnt exempt her from running anything!I think anything Grace runs could not be any worse than whats happening now.Alot of people like and respect Grace as a person,that could be the best reason of all to get her in! Good luck

xxxbilliards
04-17-2010, 08:07 AM
I just wish to express my support for Grace, She has the expertice in pool and many other areas such as PR and promotions.
Do not forget that Grace has been actively involved in pool matters, as a matter of fact she has made a decent living from the industry as rep of cue makers as well as a player.
I met Grace years ago when my family owned a pool room and remember Grace coming to offer her support, those things don't go with out merit ...... She has demostrated for many years her love for the sport as well as her managerial skills and for what is worth I believe is time for Grace to join the ranks.
I also expect her to be remunerated for her work. If she gets added money to any tournament, that is really where she may use a part to cover her expenses, there is no other way really, any time you travel it cost money, lodge, meals plus her time, wake up people.......you can not go anywhere with out money. The added money did not exist before the promoter got to work and it has to be feasible to the local as well to the players and TD.
I would be willing to support Grace to see better pool in Canada, for everyone..... including the amateurs.

Good luck Grace

Willy Hermoza

terrydavidson
04-18-2010, 05:39 AM
Willy and others:

Grace sought to get approval for her proposal from the OBSA and to have her series of tournaments as part of the OBSA organization.

Unfortunately the OBSA has to be concerned with all the various disciplines with pool, not just the open players.

We don't know why Grace would need an OBSA sanction to set up her series of tournaments as she would be fully free to set up her own series using her sponsorship money, just as you did and as the 404 tour has done.

I don't know why this never happened.

We are still looking for some people to effectively run pool within the OBSA umbrella but it has to be for all the pool players. Odie and I are not pool players and in fact are not really interested in pool at all and it's common knowledge snooker is our main love. We find it's busy enough with just the few of us running one discipline, the snooker. There is no way any of us has the time or the money to try and run all the different pool disciplines.

Besides which, we just can't keep everyone happy no matter what we do. As someone said, this is a lose-lose situation and until someone interested in organizing pool in Ontario steps up it will remain in the same shape it is today, with just some qualifying tournaments being organized by friendly pool hall owners

Terry

xxxbilliards
04-18-2010, 09:49 AM
Thank you for the note, I find there may be room to talk still.
I believe that if the action is for the players in general, they would welcome certain changes........a long time ago no body really aproved of handicaps in tournaments and today is one of the must sought formats in pool, and yes.......there are those still in wanting to play straight up...........but must always with a lesser player! The handicap really put a fix to those practices but to be effective you had to have a consistent role in tournaments and keep up with the changes.
Now days even the states Joss tour is handicapped in some form, why?.... to atract more players as well as the Viking tour having open and handicapped division and is happenning all over the US.
I feel that the Canadians need to be straight up races, b/c the winners need to challenge better players in the other competitions, but we also need to worry about the amateur players b/c they are the future of pool as well as patrons to billiards parlors.
John White and Rob Blair with partners Ken and Jimmy at Shooters and Bigwigs are a fine exemple of promoting pool in Ontario.....mind you they have a bested interest in the outcome and that is simply to promote bussines as well.
For an outsider to do this in the past or the future is not much different, they need to be compensated for their time and expenses with a dosis of reality.
There are so many people that just critizice and put it down that it takes the drive from many others........hope that changes in the future.
I would like to suggest that a meeting takes place where Grace future involvement or any other for that matter are considered, is only a few lines to ask. I now know that I would be willing to support positive changes

Willy

Jason Robichaud
04-18-2010, 01:47 PM
Thank you for the note, I find there may be room to talk still.
I believe that if the action is for the players in general, they would welcome certain changes........a long time ago no body really aproved of handicaps in tournaments and today is one of the must sought formats in pool, and yes.......there are those still in wanting to play straight up...........but must always with a lesser player! The handicap really put a fix to those practices but to be effective you had to have a consistent role in tournaments and keep up with the changes.
Now days even the states Joss tour is handicapped in some form, why?.... to atract more players as well as the Viking tour having open and handicapped division and is happenning all over the US.
I feel that the Canadians need to be straight up races, b/c the winners need to challenge better players in the other competitions, but we also need to worry about the amateur players b/c they are the future of pool as well as patrons to billiards parlors.
John White and Rob Blair with partners Ken and Jimmy at Shooters and Bigwigs are a fine exemple of promoting pool in Ontario.....mind you they have a bested interest in the outcome and that is simply to promote bussines as well.
For an outsider to do this in the past or the future is not much different, they need to be compensated for their time and expenses with a dosis of reality.
There are so many people that just critizice and put it down that it takes the drive from many others........hope that changes in the future.
I would like to suggest that a meeting takes place where Grace future involvement or any other for that matter are considered, is only a few lines to ask. I now that I would be willing to support positive changes

Willy

I play joss events, how is it handicapped? I play everyone straight up there!

xxxbilliards
04-18-2010, 02:08 PM
I play joss events, how is it handicapped? I play everyone straight up there!

Mike Zuglan has announced the entry fees are handicaped from the last two events to the end of season from now on.........pros are paying full price while non-pros pay $ 70.00 except for the Casino games (25K added) is on the joss web site as well on azbilliards

http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=7534

Willy

The Beginner
04-19-2010, 04:13 PM
Mayweather vs. Mosley...who do you think will win?

Jason Robichaud
04-19-2010, 05:34 PM
Mike Zuglan has announced the entry fees are handicaped from the last two events to the end of season from now on.........pros are paying full price while non-pros pay $ 70.00 except for the Casino games (25K added) is on the joss web site as well on azbilliards

http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=7534

Willy

Ok, I knew they changed the entry, he didn't handicap players. It's still straight up races.

scsuxci
04-20-2010, 03:37 AM
Mayweather vs. Mosley...who do you think will win?I hope Mosley wins but Mayweather is truly that good.This is the real superfight cause Manny Pac has no chance of beating Mayweather due to the fact that every smaller fighter that Mayweather fights he destroys with ease.If Mosley fights with the same agression he fought Margerito then he has a shot of winning,but if he fights the way he fought Ricardo Mayorga he'll get beat bad.Mosley's got a great chin which I think he'll need to pull off this victory!:)

The Beginner
04-20-2010, 05:16 PM
I hope Mosley wins but Mayweather is truly that good.This is the real superfight cause Manny Pac has no chance of beating Mayweather due to the fact that every smaller fighter that Mayweather fights he destroys with ease.If Mosley fights with the same agression he fought Margerito then he has a shot of winning,but if he fights the way he fought Ricardo Mayorga he'll get beat bad.Mosley's got a great chin which I think he'll need to pull off this victory!:)

I would be happy to put my money on Pacman against your Mayweather if Floyd will not chicken out on the fight against Manny hahaahahah...

scsuxci
04-20-2010, 07:21 PM
I would be happy to put my money on Pacman against your Mayweather if Floyd will not chicken out on the fight against Manny hahaahahah...If they fight I will take Mayweather 100%.I like Manny,but I bet with my brain not my heart.Mayweather will hurt Manny cause he wants to.Its the promoters that keep stalling this fight not Floyd.After they fight their won't be anything else that can get this much hype with.Its all about the money!;)

Cardinal_Syn
04-21-2010, 07:52 AM
Mayweather vs. Mosley...who do you think will win?

Mayweather of course....the fight is either fixed or Mayweather just likes challenging fighters he know he can beat! Mosley wanted him before when he was in his prime but Mayweather dodged him lol. The fighters that Mayweather apparently "destroyed" Pacman knocked out in a couple of rounds lol.

Danktrees
04-21-2010, 05:22 PM
If they fight I will take Mayweather 100%.I like Manny,but I bet with my brain not my heart.Mayweather will hurt Manny cause he wants to.Its the promoters that keep stalling this fight not Floyd.After they fight their won't be anything else that can get this much hype with.Its all about the money!;)

well here's the thing, they had the fight agreed upon but one guy wanted random drug tests through blood samples and the other guy disagreed and wanted scheduled urine tests instead. so u tell me who's fault it was. imo, random drug tests are better than scheduled drug tests.

Danktrees
04-21-2010, 05:51 PM
Mayweather of course....the fight is either fixed or Mayweather just likes challenging fighters he know he can beat! Mosley wanted him before when he was in his prime but Mayweather dodged him lol. The fighters that Mayweather apparently "destroyed" Pacman knocked out in a couple of rounds lol.

they've only fought 3 guys in common. against de la hoya mayweather took the title from him through a split decision. after that fight de la hoya should have retired. he was done, but he chose to come back for no reason and manny destroyed him like he should have in a non title fight. im pretty sure mayweather would kill de la hoya if they fought now and im sure anyone would agree...even if they're not fans of mayweather. on top of that, de la hoya has nothing to fight for any more. at the time when he fought mayweather, he was at least fighting to retain a title. mayweather took de la hoya out when de la hoya was on top of his division.

as for ricky hatton, they both kicked the crap out of him. but mayweather did it in a higher weight class and for a more prestigious title. WBC > IBO+The Ring. also, hatton is not the same fighter he was when he fought mayweather. he was undefeated when he faced mayweather but after that lost it messed him up so badly that he almost got knocked out by lazcano. so its not surprising pacquiao kicked the crap out of him. that was a given. as it stands they both ruined hatton's career by so utterly destroying him. that being said tho, hatton will still draw a decent sized british crowd regardless of who he fights so maybe it's not ruined.

as for the third guy, juan manuel marquez, pacquiao fought him to a draw the first time then a won split decision. mayweather on the other hand absolutely destroyed him. marquez did nothing the whole match, his 12% hit rate compared to mayweather's 59% is laughable, it wasnt even a match. it was almost as bad as manny destroying clottey.

but it's all a moot point as to who is better until they actually fight. u can say mayweather is dodging him, or dodged mosley before, it really doesnt matter. the fights are set by his promoter, not mayweather himself. mayweather doesnt care who he faces as long as he gets paid. he's fought champions many times and came out on top like pacquiao has so he hasnt dodged anyone. half of the stuff mayweather does is part of the show since he's a showman. he's just trying to play mindgames like he does with all of his opponents. when they actually gets in the ring, he doesnt care about any of that stuff, he just fights to win as proven by his undefeated record.

what we need is the return of THE PRINCE! Naseem Hamed is the best and always will be.

Cardinal_Syn
04-21-2010, 08:43 PM
they've only fought 3 guys in common. against de la hoya mayweather took the title from him through a split decision. after that fight de la hoya should have retired. he was done, but he chose to come back for no reason and manny destroyed him like he should have in a non title fight. im pretty sure mayweather would kill de la hoya if they fought now and im sure anyone would agree...even if they're not fans of mayweather. on top of that, de la hoya has nothing to fight for any more. at the time when he fought mayweather, he was at least fighting to retain a title. mayweather took de la hoya out when de la hoya was on top of his division.

as for ricky hatton, they both kicked the crap out of him. but mayweather did it in a higher weight class and for a more prestigious title. WBC > IBO+The Ring. also, hatton is not the same fighter he was when he fought mayweather. he was undefeated when he faced mayweather but after that lost it messed him up so badly that he almost got knocked out by lazcano. so its not surprising pacquiao kicked the crap out of him. that was a given. as it stands they both ruined hatton's career by so utterly destroying him. that being said tho, hatton will still draw a decent sized british crowd regardless of who he fights so maybe it's not ruined.

as for the third guy, juan manuel marquez, pacquiao fought him to a draw the first time then a won split decision. mayweather on the other hand absolutely destroyed him. marquez did nothing the whole match, his 12% hit rate compared to mayweather's 59% is laughable, it wasnt even a match. it was almost as bad as manny destroying clottey.

but it's all a moot point as to who is better until they actually fight. u can say mayweather is dodging him, or dodged mosley before, it really doesnt matter. the fights are set by his promoter, not mayweather himself. mayweather doesnt care who he faces as long as he gets paid. he's fought champions many times and came out on top like pacquiao has so he hasnt dodged anyone. half of the stuff mayweather does is part of the show since he's a showman. he's just trying to play mindgames like he does with all of his opponents. when they actually gets in the ring, he doesnt care about any of that stuff, he just fights to win as proven by his undefeated record.

what we need is the return of THE PRINCE! Naseem Hamed is the best and always will be.

Why all of a sudden Mayweather wants a random drug test? Is he making excuses in advance? I don't know maybe, maybe not. But when you have to do a test that's tougher than the Olympic testing then that's just pure mind games. The fight is sanctioned, it's not some backyard fight where anything goes. If it satisfies the organization that sanctioned it then shouldn't it be good enough? It is a professional fight after all. We all know the fight will eventually happen, Mayweather is just building hype. That's what he's good at, talks a lot of shit.

Back then I wasn't really a big Pacman fan. I thought his defence was weak and that he was careless. But now I'm a believer. How many times will he jump weight class? lol. Pacman=Speed/Power Mayweather=Speed/Defence. Whatever happens this fight will surely beat Pacman vs Cotto record setting ppv.

When this fight goes through after all these politics are gone you know you got game from me :thumbup:

So what about the Canadian Qualifiers again? lol

JD_Hogg
04-22-2010, 08:39 AM
Speaking of fighting, I just heard a good quote regarding the knock out punch delivered by Fedor vs Brett Rogers:


"The last time a brother got hit that hard, Apollo Creed died"


haha

samurai
04-22-2010, 08:57 AM
Before you crucify Odie, he is the one that is running the snooker in Ontario. He currently has 14 qualifiers for snooker in the Toronto area. They are all listed on Snookerline.com.

There is not a 9-Ball director in Ontario but there are some qualifiers running. Anyone interested in stepping up and running one only needs to contact Odie. It is always easy to critisize but try getting involved and helping the sport in an actual way. Not too many are willing to do that!!

Roy...Donnie and I did approach him and were met with nothing but negativity! You can ask Donnie yourself...we had a meeting with them that lasted all of 15 minutes, read my older posts on this! He is only interested in snooker....CBSA is supposed to be our governing body for all cuesports in Canada....9-ball is always an afterthought, and organised at the last minute...since he wanted the position, he has to take resposibility for the lack of qualifiers...the fact that there are 14 snooker qualifiers and NONE for 9-ball, 8-ball or 10-ball, is everyone's complaint...I am allowed to critisize because I did try to step up to the plate, with added money already in hand, which I gave back in the end, they were my contacts to begin with and I was not about to put my reputation in his hands.

samurai
04-22-2010, 09:16 AM
OK, let's get something straight here. I was at the meeting with Grace, Odie and Don and unless my memory has deserted me in my old age I remember that Grace didn't have any GUARANTEED sponsorship money and all she came with to the meeting was a PROPOSAL.

We (the OBSA) were looking for someone to organize ALL of the pool in Ontario, however Grace was unwilling to do that and was only interested in running her own thing (strictly 9-ball and strictly open division).

There was no consideration for the amateur side, 8-ball, 10-ball or juniors.

It's true we don't have a Director of Pool in the OBSA and we've been trying to find someone who is willing to volunteer their time to organize all the events required but no one has ever stepped forward to take on the whole thing.

So PLEASE, quit your moaning regarding pool in Ontario and the OBSA and step up and help us out. We will be having qualifiers in the Silver Tip (once Eddie moves), Milsy's in Kitchener and likely John White will run some at Shooters. However, turn-out for these has been relatively very poor and in order to cover the spots the money comes out of the room owner's pockets or out of the player's pockets.

Snooker is running successfully in Ontario and we wanted to try and get the pool (all disciplines) organized along the same lines however there's just no one to do it (besides Grace of course, but then again we would still need someone to run the rest of it).

Also, there are qualifiers in Sudbury and Ottawa which anyone can get into.

For those who would like to change the OBSA board, PLEASE feel free to do so. All you have to do is pay your membership ($25) and then attend the bi-annual AGM and nominate your own slate of officers. But just remember you have to run EVERYTHING, not only pool but also the snooker as well.

Terry Davidson
Treasurer, OBSA

I did have the money in hand Terry so your memory is failing you! I know that they have successful qualifiers in Sudbury, so I wanted to run some for OUR area as well, and other Ontario residents were welcome to play....

"But just remember you have to run EVERYTHING, not only pool but also the snooker as well."

....these are your words, and yet in your next posts you admit to having little or no interest in pool, so which is it?..yes I offered to run 9-ball only
(2 years ago), but that was at least a start...perhaps if my nomination had been heard last year, things might be different this year...yes there is a lot of moaning, but most of it is JUSTIFIED!...you guys do a great job for snooker, what about everyone else?!...your expertise lies with snooker and mine is in the "pool and billiard industry", together, we might have been able to overcome all this grief, but I wasn't given the chance!

samurai
04-22-2010, 09:34 AM
Thanks Willy I appreciate your support...as for Terry's comment regarding snooker cloth from Simonis, they did offer snooker cloth but Odie didn't like it from what I was told, he was given a sample for free, to use for his legion event a few years ago(by me) and he didn't even have the courtesy to get back to me with an opinion one way or the other, I was just told through the grapevine that he didn't like it...as for your comment below, I wasn't aware that Miliken was being used until a few weeks ago and was never approached to contact Simonis....had I been asked I would have gladly made the call...how can one step up if they are not asked?...I do not wish either of you any ill will, however, after my experience with you guys, I have no desire to be a part of your "old boys club"!..good luck

"So my question to Grace is...first of all if you have such a great relationship with Simonis then why didn't you step up this year and get free cloths for both snooker and pool? Especially since it appears yourself and a majority of the players prefer the Simonis to the Milliken."

SteveC
04-22-2010, 01:37 PM
Point #1:

OBSA - I think it is very clear by reading this thread that it is time to split OBSA into two different groups, snooker & pool. I would love to see a pool group present a ON pool proposal to CBSA. What they have now is not working & no one can dispute that.

Provinces are suppose to govern the National group, but obviously this is not working in ON, so maybe it is time for National involvement. Every year when I leave the Canadians I am told that pool will be better in ON the next year, in regards to the CBSA, but unfortunately, there is still room for major improvements. Two months before the Nationals, & qualifiers just being organized now by room owners & players. Do I have to say anymore?

As I mentioned earlier, I really do not want to get involved in this ON personality battles, but many blame the ON situation on CBSA. There are 3 Directors from ON presently on the CBSA Board, so maybe the time has come to give one of them the mandate to organize pool in ON for the CBSA.

Point #2:

2010 Cloth Sponsorship - For the information of all, Simonis was approached to be the cloth sponsor for pool. Since Simonis did not respond to 3 emails over a 2 month period, the Board turned to Milliken to be the sponsor, for both pool & snooker cloth. Actually there were no complaints with the pool cloth in 2008. It plays good. In 2008 the Super Pro cloth was also used at many International events. I also think it was used at the BCA Open that year, but I could be wrong about that. There is no question that Simonis produces a great pool cloth, no one in their right mind would dispute that. But CBSA tried, with no success, so no apologies necessary this year.

Also I don't think it is a fair statement to say that Milliken is a CBSA sponsor because Odie is doing business with them. They are a sponsor because CBSA needed a cloth sponsor & Milliken stepped up for us. What I have found is that sponsors are kept by promoting their product & doing business with them. That is just business. You could probably say that about any sponsorship.

Okay folks, I guess I am involved now. I have my battle gear on. Blast away.

- Steve Cooper
President, CBSA

The Beginner
04-22-2010, 03:35 PM
they've only fought 3 guys in common. against de la hoya mayweather took the title from him through a split decision. after that fight de la hoya should have retired. he was done, but he chose to come back for no reason and manny destroyed him like he should have in a non title fight. im pretty sure mayweather would kill de la hoya if they fought now and im sure anyone would agree...even if they're not fans of mayweather. on top of that, de la hoya has nothing to fight for any more. at the time when he fought mayweather, he was at least fighting to retain a title. mayweather took de la hoya out when de la hoya was on top of his division.

as for ricky hatton, they both kicked the crap out of him. but mayweather did it in a higher weight class and for a more prestigious title. WBC > IBO+The Ring. also, hatton is not the same fighter he was when he fought mayweather. he was undefeated when he faced mayweather but after that lost it messed him up so badly that he almost got knocked out by lazcano. so its not surprising pacquiao kicked the crap out of him. that was a given. as it stands they both ruined hatton's career by so utterly destroying him. that being said tho, hatton will still draw a decent sized british crowd regardless of who he fights so maybe it's not ruined.

as for the third guy, juan manuel marquez, pacquiao fought him to a draw the first time then a won split decision. mayweather on the other hand absolutely destroyed him. marquez did nothing the whole match, his 12% hit rate compared to mayweather's 59% is laughable, it wasnt even a match. it was almost as bad as manny destroying clottey.

but it's all a moot point as to who is better until they actually fight. u can say mayweather is dodging him, or dodged mosley before, it really doesnt matter. the fights are set by his promoter, not mayweather himself. mayweather doesnt care who he faces as long as he gets paid. he's fought champions many times and came out on top like pacquiao has so he hasnt dodged anyone. half of the stuff mayweather does is part of the show since he's a showman. he's just trying to play mindgames like he does with all of his opponents. when they actually gets in the ring, he doesnt care about any of that stuff, he just fights to win as proven by his undefeated record.

what we need is the return of THE PRINCE! Naseem Hamed is the best and always will be.


Hey Ced would you bet your Searing on Mayweather? if the fight will happen against Pacman.and im sure i can come up with something :thumbup:

samurai
04-22-2010, 04:45 PM
Point #1:

OBSA - I think it is very clear by reading this thread that it is time to split OBSA into two different groups, snooker & pool. I would love to see a pool group present a ON pool proposal to CBSA. What they have now is not working & no one can dispute that.

Provinces are suppose to govern the National group, but obviously this is not working in ON, so maybe it is time for National involvement. Every year when I leave the Canadians I am told that pool will be better in ON the next year, in regards to the CBSA, but unfortunately, there is still room for major improvements. Two months before the Nationals, & qualifiers just being organized now by room owners & players. Do I have to say anymore?

As I mentioned earlier, I really do not want to get involved in this ON personality battles, but many blame the ON situation on CBSA. There are 3 Directors from ON presently on the CBSA Board, so maybe the time has come to give one of them the mandate to organize pool in ON for the CBSA.

Point #2:

2010 Cloth Sponsorship - For the information of all, Simonis was approached to be the cloth sponsor for pool. Since Simonis did not respond to 3 emails over a 2 month period, the Board turned to Milliken to be the sponsor, for both pool & snooker cloth. Actually there were no complaints with the pool cloth in 2008. It plays good. In 2008 the Super Pro cloth was also used at many International events. I also think it was used at the BCA Open that year, but I could be wrong about that. There is no question that Simonis produces a great pool cloth, no one in their right mind would dispute that. But CBSA tried, with no success, so no apologies necessary this year.

Also I don't think it is a fair statement to say that Milliken is a CBSA sponsor because Odie is doing business with them. They are a sponsor because CBSA needed a cloth sponsor & Milliken stepped up for us. What I have found is that sponsors are kept by promoting their product & doing business with them. That is just business. You could probably say that about any sponsorship.

Okay folks, I guess I am involved now. I have my battle gear on. Blast away.

- Steve Cooper
President, CBSA

Hi Coop,

I am behind you and CBSA, and always have been one of the few in Ontario who support YOU....it was only after a lot of deliberation that I decided to run for the board last year because I wanted to be a part of the solution and not add to the problems,but was met with nothing but negativity...I have no desire to bash you as you have done a great job to date, but I feel that I have a right to chime in on this thread as I too am being bashed so I wanted the "whole" truth to come out...I will not be participating this year as the dates conflict with the BCA trade show, and I am commited to being there for business....I wish you and the board of CBSA good luck for this year's event.