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View Full Version : ** 9.1 Barbox straight pool **


oldzilla
06-20-2010, 02:00 PM
:cool:** 9.1 Barbox straight pool **

maybe get leaguer's interested in straight pool.

They maybe bored of all that 8-ball stuff.

Your thoughts !:cool:

Fatboy
06-20-2010, 02:17 PM
I don't know a lot about league play, but I don't think 9.1 would work at the lower levels they mite not get a break shot off in 20. Minutes,


Play a dozen games race to 45(5racks) with some friends of different speeds and see how the game play goes-Ihope I'm wrong and the game play works out good, test it and let us know. Nothing wrong with a new game.


That Bonus Ball game they are just starting to launch looks promising. I'm all for new games


Vood luck,
Eric

alstl
06-20-2010, 02:32 PM
I'd love to see it but IMO the reason 14.1 isn't more popular is because it is too difficult for the average player. But I could be wrong, maybe it will catch on.

oldzilla
06-20-2010, 02:41 PM
it's just a thought !

anyone is welcome to run with it. i am not promoting it. just an idea folks.

easy-e
06-20-2010, 03:17 PM
I would love to try it. Seems like it would be easier to get big runs.

TommyT
06-20-2010, 03:33 PM
It seems like it would be harder to get big runs because the break shot comes up more often and getting position on the key ball and break shot is the hardest part of the run.

Just my 2 cents.........TommyT

ShootingRazbone
06-20-2010, 03:53 PM
It would be alot easier because it is a BarBox! Break shots would be easier due the bigger pockets. Better players would get bored after awhile due to the aformentioned reasons but lesser players may love it!

alstl
06-20-2010, 04:00 PM
I just realized zilla said 9.1

What exactly is that? Do you rack the balls like in 9 ball with the 1 missing from the rack?

sfleinen
06-20-2010, 04:22 PM
I just realized zilla said 9.1

What exactly is that? Do you rack the balls like in 9 ball with the 1 missing from the rack?

No, you rack it like 10-ball (triangular, not diamond-shaped, rack) with the headball missing.

The common mistake that players new to 9.1 make after leaving the 10th ball on the table, is to rack the remaining balls in a diamond, and after some strange looks from the onlookers, the racker goes "D'oh!" :D

-Sean

easy-e
06-20-2010, 04:40 PM
It seems like it would be harder to get big runs because the break shot comes up more often and getting position on the key ball and break shot is the hardest part of the run.

Just my 2 cents.........TommyT

I was just thinking every shot would be easier. The ball would only have to travel so far to break the rack up.

I can't wait to try this game now!

ShootingArts
06-20-2010, 04:48 PM
:cool:** 9.1 Barbox straight pool **

maybe get leaguer's interested in straight pool.

They maybe bored of all that 8-ball stuff.

Your thoughts !:cool:



I have been thinking about this for a few years and would like to give it a try. Promote 9.1 by having regular tournaments and have some tables with only ten balls in them, a reduced price, and a sign on the wall designating them 9 ball, 10 ball, and 9.1 tables. I think the key would be having some decent paying tournaments to encourage people playing the game. One Pocket gets mighty popular when there is a weekly tournament.

If the tables aren't opened up or set up as I described in the first paragraph the catch is nobody is going to be happy throwing away five balls every rack and a solution would have to be found for that.

I'm not happy about it, I'd much rather see a return to 5x10's than more seven foot tables, but realistically it's easier to pay for the square footage that seven foot tables use. If the cost of square footage keeps going up I think bar tables or a similar small table may be the future of pool. The English black ball tables that are very small but with snooker style pockets make for some very interesting play according to some video I have seen.

Back to your subject, I'd like to see a tournament or three tried locally and might push for some in the not too distant future.

Hu

Johnnyt
06-20-2010, 04:59 PM
I play it. 5-10 racks just about every day. 15 balls are to cluttered on a 7' table for 14.1. It would get some interested in straight pool and advance to 14.1 on the 9' tables IMO. I play 3-6 hours a day on a 7' table at home. It gets boring to just practice one game all the time. I play 7-8 different games to not get bored. Johnnyt

PS:Diamonds don't have buckets for pockets and Valley's don't have to have either. Put a set of Ridgeback rails on it and add some shims and you have a lot harder playing table than the stock Valley.

jamesjr1963
06-20-2010, 05:20 PM
WOW! Interesting. I have not heard of this before but after mulling over it I think it is a perfect game on a bar-box to get people familiar with the game of 14.1. It may not attract the attention of bar-box masters, who would probably get bored with it very quickly, but if you get people interested something new that can only be a good thing. Also, with the 10 ball rack you may come up with bar-box one pocket.

u12armresl
06-20-2010, 06:19 PM
How long until someone comes in and says they can run 4500 in that game?

alstl
06-20-2010, 06:43 PM
No, you rack it like 10-ball (triangular, not diamond-shaped, rack) with the headball missing.

The common mistake that players new to 9.1 make after leaving the 10th ball on the table, is to rack the remaining balls in a diamond, and after some strange looks from the onlookers, the racker goes "D'oh!" :D

-Sean

Thanks, I hadn't heard of that. I guess on a barbox it makes sense so the table isn't so cluttered.

TheWizard
06-20-2010, 07:21 PM
It's a cool idea and it might be a good introdution to straight pool for complete beginners indeed, but then again I don't think beginners/novices would necessarily learn as much from shooting 9.1 Straight Pool as they would playing the full rack version, since there wouldn't be as much problems with obstacles like learning how to break up clusters, how to develope a good key ball or break ball, etc.

I guess that everyone has their preferences and my preference would be to see a return to 5x10 tables with heavy wool barbox cloth and 14.1 Straight Pool being the tournament game.

Jm2c fwiw

Willie

Johnnyt
06-20-2010, 07:30 PM
It's a cool idea and it might be a good introdution to straight pool for complete beginners indeed, but then again I don't think beginners/novices would necessarily learn as much from shooting 9.1 Straight Pool as they would playing the full rack version, since there wouldn't be as much problems with obstacles like learning how to break up clusters, how to develope a good key ball or break ball, etc.

I guess that everyone has their preferences and my preference would be to see a return to 5x10 tables with heavy wool barbox cloth and 14.1 Straight Pool being the tournament game.

Jm2c fwiw

Willie

With 5+" pockets? Johnnyt

TheWizard
06-20-2010, 10:15 PM
With 5+" pockets? Johnnyt

Hey Johnny, how's it goin? :cool:

Nope, 4 1/2" pockets with quick and preferably quiet ball return system :thumbup:

Willie

gunzby
06-20-2010, 10:48 PM
I keep forgetting to give this a try on a 9 foot table. Not so sure how much I'll like not having the extra balls to move around, but then again I won't know till I try.

DelaWho???
06-21-2010, 03:57 AM
We play 14:1 on my diamond 7'pro/am, the clusters and breaking them out make it interesting. I'll have to try it with 9:1 and see what the real playing difference is.


:cool:

Dead Crab
06-21-2010, 05:39 AM
I keep forgetting to give this a try on a 9 foot table. Not so sure how much I'll like not having the extra balls to move around, but then again I won't know till I try.

The point of using a 10 ball rack on a 7' table is that it approximately scales the game so that the area of playing surface per ball is about the same as it is for a 15 ball rack on a 9' table.

I think the advocates of this game are trying to popularize straight pool for 7' tables, not change the game of straight pool on large tables.

BobTfromIL
06-21-2010, 05:42 AM
Sounds interesting, like to try it someday.

stevekur1
06-21-2010, 05:59 AM
How long until someone comes in and says they can run 4500 in that game?

I can run 4500 in that game !!! LOL:wink:

like the idea
-STeve

Johnnyt
06-21-2010, 06:12 AM
The point of using a 10 ball rack on a 7' table is that it approximately scales the game so that the area of playing surface per ball is about the same as it is for a 15 ball rack on a 9' table.

I think the advocates of this game are trying to popularize straight pool for 7' tables, not change the game of straight pool on large tables.

Exactly. 10 balls makes a 7' about to scale of the 9' table. Most league players play on 7' tables, so it might get them interested in playing straight pool for fun and practice of it (don't tell John S). If enough of them like it and talk it up, it will grow. As far as only using 10 balls for your $1.00, you need the other 5 balls to spot for fouls and such. You could even play it equal offense. Each player in turn trys to run as many of their rack up to 10. Play a pre arranged # of racks. Each ball made is worth 1 point. You can even give a ball or two bonus points for running all ten. Total points for each is added up after all racks are played. Johnnyt

ctyhntr
06-21-2010, 06:15 AM
Do you think some bar leaguers may be turned off that even after you run a perfect rack (9 balls), you're paying for 15 balls. Perhaps a bonus round of 6 ball between each rack?

Johnnyt
06-21-2010, 06:19 AM
Hey Johnny, how's it goin? :cool:

Nope, 4 1/2" pockets with quick and preferably quiet ball return system :thumbup:

Willie

I wasn't really trying to be a wise ass. I just know most of those 5x10's had bucket pockets in them. I've played on more than a few in the day. Johnnyt

sfleinen
06-21-2010, 06:28 AM
Do you think some bar leaguers may be turned off that even after you run a perfect rack (9 balls), you're paying for 15 balls. Perhaps a bonus round of 6 ball between each rack?

ctyhntr:

You bring up a very good point -- that %$#@! coin drop! The problem with games like 9.1 (and one pocket, like another poster brought up) on a bar table is that occasionally balls need to be spotted. I know when I play "spotted ball" games like 9.1 and One Pocket on a bar table, we use the extra six balls to spot with, since once you pocket a ball, you can't retrieve it out of the ball cage unless you pay again.

What I (and my friends) usually do, is slip the proprietor of the establishment a $10 spot (to cover the cost of an entire roll of quarters), and have him/her fetch the key and open-up the side of the bar table (ball cage) to us for the entire session. It's actually a VERY INEXPENSIVE way to go when you think about it -- the proprietor gets an entire roll of quarters worth of coin drop in one fell swoop, and *you* -- the player -- gets an open table where you can fetch balls out of the ball cage at will, for the duration of your session at the table (which could last a couple hours -- basically $5/hour on that table!).

NOTE: you can really only do this when the establishment is not busy, and there's no demand for the tables. You can't do this during peak hours, because obviously, patrons coming in wanting to play on the tables are going to approach the table, thinking it's a "public" table, and put his/her quarters up to "play the next game." You *might* get away with commandeering a table like this if the establishment has several tables, but again, not during peak hours.

Anyway, that's an idea that hopefully is useful to folks out there.

-Sean

Mike in MN
06-21-2010, 10:13 AM
I've played 9.1 on a barbox. It reduces the traffic, and makes it more enjoyable than 14.1 is on a 7-footer. However, the break shot comes up far too often, and as someone else said, is the most challenging part of the game. So that can prove to be difficult for beginners. I have fun with it, though.

ShootingArts
06-21-2010, 11:19 AM
I've played 9.1 on a barbox. It reduces the traffic, and makes it more enjoyable than 14.1 is on a 7-footer. However, the break shot comes up far too often, and as someone else said, is the most challenging part of the game. So that can prove to be difficult for beginners. I have fun with it, though.

I have played(practiced) 9.1 on a nine foot Diamond but never tried it on a bar table. I'm hoping that the more frequent break shot makes it as interesting or more interesting than play on a nine footer. Also thinking about a mandatory stop after running a certain number of balls in tournament play. I don't know if I like that but it would be similar to alternating breaks. I'm thinking maybe a race to 100 with a maximum run of 30-35 balls to insure that both players at least get to swing a stick twice. The incoming player would almost certainly be working from a safety but that's the way it goes!

JohnnyT,

I asked John S to try 9.1 on a seven foot table years ago when he first got involved with the pool hall in Pensacola to see what a straight pool player thought of the ten ball rack on a bar table.

I'm still waiting to hear back from him . . . . :D :D :D

Hu

ctyhntr
06-21-2010, 01:10 PM
Sean,

I agree, it best to air out all the possible pitfalls. Coin drop being a major reason why APA 8-ball rules differ from BCA and others.

The extra 6 balls is perfect for taking a safety race into account, that would be 5 balls (2-3 safety penalty).

Should safety penalty be changed from 25 points to say 15 points, to because of size of the rack? Or leave it, so it encourage safety play.

Henry

ctyhntr:

You bring up a very good point -- that %$#@! coin drop! The problem with games like 9.1 (and one pocket, like another poster brought up) on a bar table is that occasionally balls need to be spotted. I know when I play "spotted ball" games like 9.1 and One Pocket on a bar table, we use the extra six balls to spot with, since once you pocket a ball, you can't retrieve it out of the ball cage unless you pay again.

What I (and my friends) usually do, is slip the proprietor of the establishment a $10 spot (to cover the cost of an entire roll of quarters), and have him/her fetch the key and open-up the side of the bar table (ball cage) to us for the entire session. It's actually a VERY INEXPENSIVE way to go when you think about it -- the proprietor gets an entire roll of quarters worth of coin drop in one fell swoop, and *you* -- the player -- gets an open table where you can fetch balls out of the ball cage at will, for the duration of your session at the table (which could last a couple hours -- basically $5/hour on that table!).

NOTE: you can really only do this when the establishment is not busy, and there's no demand for the tables. You can't do this during peak hours, because obviously, patrons coming in wanting to play on the tables are going to approach the table, thinking it's a "public" table, and put his/her quarters up to "play the next game." You *might* get away with commandeering a table like this if the establishment has several tables, but again, not during peak hours.

Anyway, that's an idea that hopefully is useful to folks out there.

-Sean

ctyhntr
06-21-2010, 01:13 PM
Hu,

I think your idea mandatory stop idea could work, if this was promoted as a part of a team format. If we use existing APA handicaps as a scale, and assign 5 points to each level. Possible match between a APA 4 and 7 would be 20-35 points, and APA 3 and 5 would be 15-25. 4 matches and 8 players in the evening would bring the cumulative to 100-140 points.


I have played(practiced) 9.1 on a nine foot Diamond but never tried it on a bar table. I'm hoping that the more frequent break shot makes it as interesting or more interesting than play on a nine footer. Also thinking about a mandatory stop after running a certain number of balls in tournament play. I don't know if I like that but it would be similar to alternating breaks. I'm thinking maybe a race to 100 with a maximum run of 30-35 balls to insure that both players at least get to swing a stick twice. The incoming player would almost certainly be working from a safety but that's the way it goes!

JohnnyT,

I asked John S to try 9.1 on a seven foot table years ago when he first got involved with the pool hall in Pensacola to see what a straight pool player thought of the ten ball rack on a bar table.

I'm still waiting to hear back from him . . . . :D :D :D

Hu

oldzilla
06-21-2010, 01:17 PM
I've played 9.1 on a barbox. It reduces the traffic, and makes it more enjoyable than 14.1 is on a 7-footer. However, the break shot comes up far too often, and as someone else said, is the most challenging part of the game. So that can prove to be difficult for beginners. I have fun with it, though.

But it may help to improve those skills quicker then !:cool:

Nice to see alot of response to this idea even though it is not a new one.
We just need to keep chatting about it and something will happen !