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LAMas
06-26-2010, 11:48 PM
Are there any benefits? I wonder if the distance between the CB and OB affects the accuracy if one does?

Chi2dxa
06-26-2010, 11:54 PM
When I start trying to incorporate new stuff into my game and it,,, the new stuff gets my game really out of wack. I go back to using the sides of my stick and my game comes back to ground zero. Yes it does help me.

BRKNRUN
06-27-2010, 08:00 AM
I use the HH 3-line system....one of the aims in that system is 1/4 CB to edge of OB....I like to set up with my shaft always in the center of the CB as much as possible....for the above shot I set up with the shaft center CB but I use the edge of my shaft to help aim the 1/4 portion of the CB. if that makes sense.

scratchs
06-27-2010, 08:53 AM
I use the HH 3-line system....one of the aims in that system is 1/4 CB to edge of OB....I like to set up with my shaft always in the center of the CB as much as possible....for the above shot I set up with the shaft center CB but I use the edge of my shaft to help aim the 1/4 portion of the CB. if that makes sense.

Yes..I cue like that a lot..depending on the shot an english I also aim with the edge of my cue..just depends..like bowling..spinning in to the ball, or out off the ball..yes this sounds retarded,but I know what it means to me..lol..I take meds to keep up with myself.

tucson9ball
06-27-2010, 09:11 AM
The edge of the cue ball to what!!!...............hell, I just close my eyes and pray. :eek:

BRKNRUN
06-27-2010, 09:13 AM
The edge of the cue ball to what!!!...............hell, I just close my eyes and pray. :eek:

Hey.....this is not a CTE thread.....It is a stick aiming thread...:wink:

(he is talking about using the edge of the shaft to aid in alignment)

scratchs
06-27-2010, 10:27 AM
Here's some humor,years ago I took a fine point sharpie an put a line on my furrle, so I could train myself to look down the center of the shaft...believe it or not,it actualy helped me..I did catch a lot crap over it thou..lol

LAMas
06-27-2010, 01:07 PM
I use the HH 3-line system....one of the aims in that system is 1/4 CB to edge of OB....I like to set up with my shaft always in the center of the CB as much as possible....for the above shot I set up with the shaft center CB but I use the edge of my shaft to help aim the 1/4 portion of the CB. if that makes sense.

HH 3-line system...another thread for that.:smile:

Aiming down the side of the shaft would be less than 1/4 of the CB but I can see where that helps.

I was thinking more like, if the center of the shaft and CB are aimed at the edge of the OB, that would give you the 30 degree cut angle; then aiming the edge of the shaft at the edge of the OB would give you a few degrees more (40 degrees?) if the center of the cue is aimed just outside of the edge of the OB with the closest edge (to OB) of the shaft is aimed at the edge of the OB.

Conversely, a few degrees less (20 derees?) if the center of the cue is aimed just inside of the edge of the OB with the closest edge (to OB edge) of the shaft is aimed at the edge of the OB.

An old shooter told me that it helps him make some necessary adjustments.

Thanks for your input.:smile:

LAMas
06-27-2010, 01:09 PM
Here's some humor,years ago I took a fine point sharpie an put a line on my furrle, so I could train myself to look down the center of the shaft...believe it or not,it actualy helped me..I did catch a lot crap over it thou..lol

I did the same thing on my ferrule as well as sanding my shaft down to 11 mm. Both helped me.
Thanks:smile:

3RAILKICK
06-27-2010, 02:40 PM
I did the same thing on my ferrule as well as sanding my shaft down to 11 mm. Both helped me.
Thanks:smile:

That's gotta be a foul.:wink:

Sidenote: I played in a tournament Saturday. Shooting to one corner was brutal due to a bright sun reflection coming off the winshield of a van parked just outside the front door. I still had a vivid blue/purple dot in my vision from shooting that direction a couple of shots b4.

Opponent missed the 9ball and left me off angle facing that pocket. Some combination of peripheral vision sighting and a un-named pivot-based alignment system combined to make the shot without looking at the pocket and sun glare again. Hmmm.

Maybe it was a windshield glare, shadow- based offset/don't make me look that way please/quick shoot b4 I go blind-corollary system.

Don't know-it worked once-when it was needed most, just b4 the migraine set in-although those prismatic colors are somewhat entertaining, the headache is a b1tch.


Take care

Dead Crab
06-28-2010, 05:53 AM
HH 3-line system...another thread for that.:smile:

Aiming down the side of the shaft would be less than 1/4 of the CB but I can see where that helps.

I was thinking more like, if the center of the shaft and CB are aimed at the edge of the OB, that would give you the 30 degree cut angle; then aiming the edge of the shaft at the edge of the OB would give you a few degrees more (40 degrees?) if the center of the cue is aimed just outside of the edge of the OB with the closest edge (to OB) of the shaft is aimed at the edge of the OB.

Conversely, a few degrees less (20 derees?) if the center of the cue is aimed just inside of the edge of the OB with the closest edge (to OB edge) of the shaft is aimed at the edge of the OB.

An old shooter told me that it helps him make some necessary adjustments.

Thanks for your input.:smile:

Recall that sin(cut angle)=x/2R, where x=aim point distance from the OB center.

If you use the edge of your 11mm cue tip pointed at the edge of the OB, then parallel shift back to the CB center, you will be aiming at a point 5.5mm + 28.575mm from the OB center, or about 34mm.

Using the above relationship: cut angle=arcsin(34/57.15), or 36.5 degrees.

For the second case, moving 5.5 mm inward from the OB edge, your aim point on the OB would be associated with a cut angle of 23.8 degrees.

Having discovered that specific aim points on the OB are unique to a cut angle, and can be reached using offset and parallel shift on the CB, all you need to do is learn how to estimate cut angles with accuracy and your aiming problem will be solved. Assuming, of course, that the stroke is up to the task.

3andstop
06-28-2010, 06:48 AM
This is the method I use. IMO it is the only method that REMOVES all guesstimating. Regardless of the english you need for a particular shot, you simply cue the CB where you want to apply your english and straight edge the side of your cue stick to the aiming point on the OB.

Left side of stick to cut left, right side to cut right, and pick your side for straight in shots.

I think it's a great method to use. I'm no scientist, but it seems to eliminate completely the compensation needed to differentiate point of aim to point of contact.

The hardest part of this method IMO is to simply trust it. It seems like it can't work, but it's deadly accurate IF ... you can deliver your stroke accurately along the line.


edit .. I just want to add, not knowing the playing level ability of all the readers, it is imperative to have a level smooth stroke. Unless your basics are sound, there is nothing that will work as it should.

TheBook
06-28-2010, 07:54 AM
I bought a line laser from Home Depot for about $12. Use it to mark the OB various points such as 1/2 between the edge and center, and etc.

Set up a ball and line the laser pointing into the pocket. Move the CB around to give the various hits. This helps you to see what angle requires the spot to aim at. When the center of the CB gets past the edge of the OB I will start to use the edge of the CB to aim at a spot on the OB.

C. J. addresses the importance of aiming a a spot on the OB instead of a point in space that doesn't exist.

3andstop
06-28-2010, 08:49 AM
Move the CB around to give the various hits. This helps you to see what angle requires the spot to aim at. When the center of the CB gets past the edge of the OB I will start to use the edge of the CB to aim at a spot on the OB.




Lets face it, different methods are more comfortable to different people than other methods. In the end, it is most important to use what works for you.

In your quote, you refer to exactly why I like to use the edge of the cue stick. You say "move the CB around to give the various hits."

You go on to speak of "the center of the CB"

Both of these things are what I call "guesstimating".

Using the side of the cue shaft, you aim Directly at the spot on the OB opposite where you want it to go, using the left or right line of your shaft depending on which way you are cutting the OB. Then REGARDLESS of english, you stroke your cue stick straight along this line.

The only variable is the accuracy of your stroke delivery. The farther the CB is from the OB the more this deficiency will show up. If your stroke is true, the OB is going EXACTLY where you aimed it.

When I approach a shot, before I get down on it, I do use other body alignment methods. Here is pretty much what I do. I'm not the best player in the world but I can attest the the simplicity and accuracy of the side of the shaft method.

First I look over the shot in general, consider the angle the OB will take off the CB, consider where I want the CB to go and what if any english I will need to get it there.

I then look at the aim point on the OB which is always opposite where I want it to go. Then for general alignment to the shot I imagine 1 1/8th inches out to the ghost ball position.

Now as I get down on the shot, I fine tune my alignment using the side of the shaft. I take a few practice strokes, pause at the CB with the english position already a part of my CB aim ( no twisting or applying english as an after thought, that IMO is ridiculous).

I recheck, or reset my shaft alignment, feel the OB going to the pocket, feel the CB coming off the OB, take 2 more practice strokes, last pause at the CB, final hone in using side of shaft, seeing a laser beam in my mind to the OB aim point, backstroke, pause, see the shot and then stroke through the CB along the line from the side of the shaft to the point of aim on the OB.

I hope that can help anyone interested. Trusting the method after practicing it a while will give you confidence in your shot making and free up your brain to just do what it knows will work.

LAMas
06-28-2010, 09:18 AM
Lets face it, different methods are more comfortable to different people than other methods. In the end, it is most important to use what works for you.

In your quote, you refer to exactly why I like to use the edge of the cue stick. You say "move the CB around to give the various hits."

You go on to speak of "the center of the CB"

Both of these things are what I call "guesstimating".

Using the side of the cue shaft, you aim Directly at the spot on the OB opposite where you want it to go, using the left or right line of your shaft depending on which way you are cutting the OB. Then REGARDLESS of english, you stroke your cue stick straight along this line.

The only variable is the accuracy of your stroke delivery. The farther the CB is from the OB the more this deficiency will show up. If your stroke is true, the OB is going EXACTLY where you aimed it.

When I approach a shot, before I get down on it, I do use other body alignment methods. Here is pretty much what I do. I'm not the best player in the world but I can attest the the simplicity and accuracy of the side of the shaft method.

First I look over the shot in general, consider the angle the OB will take off the CB, consider where I want the CB to go and what if any english I will need to get it there.

I then look at the aim point on the OB which is always opposite where I want it to go. Then for general alignment to the shot I imagine 1 1/8th inches out to the ghost ball position.

Now as I get down on the shot, I fine tune my alignment using the side of the shaft. I take a few practice strokes, pause at the CB with the english position already a part of my CB aim ( no twisting or applying english as an after thought, that IMO is ridiculous).

I recheck, or reset my shaft alignment, feel the OB going to the pocket, feel the CB coming off the OB, take 2 more practice strokes, last pause at the CB, final hone in using side of shaft, seeing a laser beam in my mind to the OB aim point, backstroke, pause, see the shot and then stroke through the CB along the line from the side of the shaft to the point of aim on the OB.

I hope that can help anyone interested. Trusting the method after practicing it a while will give you confidence in your shot making and free up your brain to just do what it knows will work.

I like what you are saying.

I think that aiming along the side of the shaft while pointing the tip at the center of the CB to the contact point on the OB will help one get to "double distance" or Ghost ball but it is a constant 5.5 mm away from the center of an 11 mm shaft.

What will work for a <10 degree @ .20" cut may not work for a ~85 degree cut @ 1.10" from the contact point.
Thanks.:)

3andstop
06-28-2010, 10:30 AM
I like what you are saying.

I think that aiming along the side of the shaft while pointing the tip at the center of the CB to the contact point on the OB will help one get to "double distance" or Ghost ball but it is a constant 5.5 mm away from the center of an 11 mm shaft.

What will work for a <10 degree @ .20" cut may not work for a ~85 degree cut @ 1.10" from the contact point.
Thanks.:)

In all honesty, I don't concern myself with the degree angle of the cut, half ball, quarter ball, how much english, none of it matters. This (at least for me is point and shoot) simple, accurate, works with follow, draw, sidespin, or any combination of them, and allows you to eliminate all extra movements and calculations.

Like any aiming method, ( even the put it in the pocket method :) ) you need to give it some time on the table to get used to it. I like this best because you are aiming at definitive points, not estimated percentages or degrees of cut.

LAMas
06-28-2010, 11:59 PM
I tried aiming down the side of the shaft and it is usefull for angles that are a little thin or thicker than 0, 15, 30, 45 and 85 degrees -that I aim center, 1/4 ball, edge, 1/4 ball outside of edge and 1/2 ball outside of the edge of OB respectively.

The edge of the shaft is better than nothing for those.:)

genomachino
06-29-2010, 08:12 AM
Here's some humor,years ago I took a fine point sharpie an put a line on my furrle, so I could train myself to look down the center of the shaft...believe it or not,it actualy helped me..I did catch a lot crap over it thou..lol

When i was younger a friend of mine, george Brick had a line on his ferule. He used it so when he needed draw he would put the line up. I don't really know if it helped him or not though. But i guess if he thought it did then it did..............

greyghost
06-29-2010, 09:23 AM
This is the method I use. IMO it is the only method that REMOVES all guesstimating. Regardless of the english you need for a particular shot, you simply cue the CB where you want to apply your english and straight edge the side of your cue stick to the aiming point on the OB.

Left side of stick to cut left, right side to cut right, and pick your side for straight in shots.

I think it's a great method to use. I'm no scientist, but it seems to eliminate completely the compensation needed to differentiate point of aim to point of contact.

The hardest part of this method IMO is to simply trust it. It seems like it can't work, but it's deadly accurate IF ... you can deliver your stroke accurately along the line.


edit .. I just want to add, not knowing the playing level ability of all the readers, it is imperative to have a level smooth stroke. Unless your basics are sound, there is nothing that will work as it should.

same here brother....

aiming with the gun and not the bullet since the clinton administration

-Grey Ghost-

Cornerman
06-29-2010, 12:24 PM
Are there any benefits? I wonder if the distance between the CB and OB affects the accuracy if one does?

I believe the Ultimatate Aiming System uses the ferrule inside edge as a point for aiming.

There are so many shots for which this method is a point and shoot.

Fred

LAMas
06-29-2010, 08:05 PM
I believe the Ultimatate Aiming System uses the ferrule inside edge as a point for aiming.

There are so many shots for which this method is a point and shoot.

Fred

Is there more information on "the Ultimatate Aiming System " here on AZ?
Thanks for comment.:)

scratchs
06-29-2010, 11:58 PM
I did the same thing on my ferrule as well as sanding my shaft down to 11 mm. Both helped me.
Thanks:smile:

Yeah..I changed the taper on my shaft..an tip diam. as well..12mm. I've shot around with a 10mm, to much spin with my stroke on some shots..

Cornerman
06-30-2010, 10:15 AM
Is there more information on "the Ultimatate Aiming System " here on AZ?
Thanks for comment.:)

There was a bit of discussion it 10 years ago on RSB.

Dave Mullen's Ultimate Aiming System (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.billiard/search?group=rec.sport.billiard&q=%22ultimate+aiming)

It didn't get many good marks by the same people who pretty much never give good marks to aiming systems. However, those that see value in such aiming systems gave positive (though vague) accolades.

As with all systems, one only needs to try it to see if they find benefit and not dismiss anyone else if they don't find benefit.

Fred <~~~ found benefit

cookie man
06-30-2010, 10:58 AM
There was a bit of discussion it 10 years ago on RSB.

Dave Mullen's Ultimate Aiming System (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.billiard/search?group=rec.sport.billiard&q=%22ultimate+aiming)

It didn't get many good marks by the same people who pretty much never give good marks to aiming systems. However, those that see value in such aiming systems gave positive (though vague) accolades.

As with all systems, one only needs to try it to see if they find benefit and not dismiss anyone else if they don't find benefit.

Fred <~~~ found benefit

Avyone have the video?