PDA

View Full Version : Opinions on pros wrecking local tourneys


m79a
06-28-2010, 07:57 AM
What do you think about guys who are pros or are good enough to play pro tourneys hitting local tourneys during the week? This will kill a local tourney in a hurry. Do you think the owner should just say look man I'm trying to run a business and you are killing it? Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?

pt109
06-28-2010, 08:09 AM
What do you think about guys who are pros or are good enough to play pro tourneys hitting local tourneys during the week? This will kill a local tourney in a hurry. Do you think the owner should just say look man I'm trying to run a business and you are killing it? Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?

Modified DKO and NOT making the payout top heavy helps.

Need some good players around.They show the way.

NewStroke
06-28-2010, 08:20 AM
Why worry about it, at any given time, everyone is ready to lose. No matter what the situation, I look forward to playing better players. If they choose to play in a field that is simple for them it's their choice. I think they only thing they improve by doing this is a small bump in cash flow.

BryanBpool
06-28-2010, 08:27 AM
If i get to shoot with a pro for a 10-15$ tourney entry fee, I consider that fantastic. Money well spent.

Most cheapy tourneys are short races, (races to 3 or 4), I feel that I could beat anyone, every now and then, in that short of a race.

Black-Balled
06-28-2010, 08:27 AM
What do you think ...Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?


Trust me...the 'chump change' is needed...it is called grindin' it out!

These guys do a little risk/ reward analysis, ya know.

UrackmIcrackm
06-28-2010, 08:31 AM
What do you think about guys who are pros or are good enough to play pro tourneys hitting local tourneys during the week? This will kill a local tourney in a hurry. Do you think the owner should just say look man I'm trying to run a business and you are killing it? Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?

The best way to look at it is that for $5 to $20 (however much the entry fee is) you get to play someone that good and can learn a lot from them. Other people have to spend a lot more than that by gambling or playing in a large event to play against better players and you're getting off by only paying a small weekly tournament entry fee.

If the owner of the establishment doesn't want pro & pro level players in their weekly tournament then they need to state that it is an amateur only event. The mgt/TD will have the right to decide who is a pro or pro level player or who isn't.

For the record, action isn't abundant in many places and there aren't exactly a whole lot of high level, higher paying tournaments going on at the moment. Guys that decide to play pool for a living have to feed themselves and pay their bills just like anyone else. In times like these, the "chump change" tournaments are their "bread & butter" so to speak.

akaTrigger
06-28-2010, 08:36 AM
I remember another thread about this recently, and in it people suggested the winner sits out the next week. That has helped some of the complaints.

Papa Red
06-28-2010, 08:43 AM
Here is my option on this! In the little town I play at we have an open/handicapped $10 entry tournament every Saturday that brings in player from everywhere.We have had pro's such as Bob Vanover,CJ Wiley, Rodger Griffis, and others non-pro's such as Kid Delicious, James Walden, Jeff Melton, Fargo, and Jim McDermott from Magoo's. Since the room opened in 1986 this tournament is still pulling in 25 players a week end and as high as 52 one week end. Our local players range from Grandmasters to C-players. Playing better players has improved the caliber of players in our area. I venture to say that we have improved from 10% A-players to about 70% today. Yes, it was slow in the beginning to convince a C-player that they weren't wasting their time and money, but for $10 a week where can you get cheep lesson like that.

I have been on the management side also, so I under their view if it is hurting their business. But if you have top players willing to help others it will work out in the long run. This is what has helped our tournament build bringing in new players and built our leagues.

Cuebuddy
06-28-2010, 08:46 AM
I have been asked not to play in local tourney's before and it sucks. First of all I am not that good,yes I can get hot like anyone else and win a tourney or five but not even close to a low pro. Second I worked hard to get my game up there and for a bar owner or TD to ask me not to play is wrong after I have gone as far as to get to the tourney in the first place.

peteypooldude
06-28-2010, 08:53 AM
Most weekly tournys are short races,that is probably the best chance to put a notch on your belt,all they can do is run out and most players where I play run out also.So no it does not bother me,I like taking a shot at them in a short race

Tramp Steamer
06-28-2010, 08:55 AM
We used to have a weekly 9 Ball tournament on Thursday evenings. Entry fee was ten bucks. Our local Pro would show up every now and then, and offtimes win, but no one seemed to care. They paid pretty deep into the field, which I imagine probably helped. :)

barber23
06-28-2010, 09:04 AM
That is why they call it "open" tournament. Who doesn't want to match up against the best. I played a tournament at Kolby's in Tempe Az and Scott Frost was there I remember saying to myself I hope I draw him. Here in South Dakota once and awhile Shane Van Boening show up here for a tournament and I would love to draw him as well. The pros that play local tournaments should be commended they put themselves out there to be ridiculed. Imagine they are playing some local twig race to 3 and get beat. How many times are you going to hear that "twig" say "I beat SVB" or "I unplugged the freezer" Most people forget that most of the pros started off just like all of us playing cheap touraments and leagues. So I think since they remember their roots the pros are welcome to play in as many local tournaments as they want to and in fact invite your pro friends to come down as well.

Chad Barber

m79a
06-28-2010, 09:07 AM
Thanks for the perspective guys. I really don't care either way personally. I've just heard several people at tourneys complain about so and so showing up and nobody can beat them. I'm not good enough yet to worry that much about who I play. I'm usually to busy beating my self. :D

Skess
06-28-2010, 09:12 AM
For the kind of entry fees you're talking about, I consider it a cheap education. And who knows, in a short 3 or 4 game race, maybe you pull a surprise on someone.

Like some others said, the best way to alleviate the problem is to pay bit deeper in the field. That gives the lesser skilled players a little something to put in their pockets for the ride home. There are a lot of players that consider it a good day if they played all day and went home even.

Papa Red
06-28-2010, 09:13 AM
Thanks for the perspective guys. I really don't care either way personally. I've just heard several people at tourneys complain about so and so showing up and nobody can beat them. I'm not good enough yet to worry that much about who I play. I'm usually to busy beating my self. :D

I'll bet the ones complaining are the ones that win every week and can't win if a good players shows up!

Worminator
06-28-2010, 09:13 AM
I've just heard several people at tourneys complain...

That is the one constant in tournaments... someone is always going to complain.

nancewayne
06-28-2010, 09:43 AM
There is a local ($10 entry fee) tournament in this area played 4 times a year. They usually get around 40 players in a no handicap short race to two in 8-ball, double elimination. They only pay out 3 (sometimes 4) places with the winner usually getting up to $300. Since the house adds a $10 voucher for each player, every one wins (or at least breaks even), the house sells a lot of beer/liquor and a good time is had by all ! HOWEVER, even though it is a short race, the "cream" usually comes to the top and the "semi-pros" usually win the $300 1st place prize. One time a "pro" had just come from the U.S. Open 9-ball tournament and placed and cashed $600. He then proceeded to win this tournament (another $300 "chump change").

Right or Wrong ?????



The best way to look at it is that for $5 to $20 (however much the entry fee is) you get to play someone that good and can learn a lot from them. Other people have to spend a lot more than that by gambling or playing in a large event to play against better players and you're getting off by only paying a small weekly tournament entry fee.

If the owner of the establishment doesn't want pro & pro level players in their weekly tournament then they need to state that it is an amateur only event. The mgt/TD will have the right to decide who is a pro or pro level player or who isn't.

For the record, action isn't abundant in many places and there aren't exactly a whole lot of high level, higher paying tournaments going on at the moment. Guys that decide to play pool for a living have to feed themselves and pay their bills just like anyone else. In times like these, the "chump change" tournaments are their "bread & butter" so to speak.

triley41395
06-28-2010, 09:57 AM
In my oppinion if a person is good enough to be pro they are smart enough to not win every week and run off most of the local players...I played in a tourny one time about 10 years ago and played 4 people who's names I here on AZ..I played to just have the oppertunity to play a couple bigger names knowing I had almost 0 chance of winning...all the races were close...Then I thought I might actaully be half good but now I know they were just trying to keep me interested...:D

cuesmith
06-28-2010, 09:59 AM
What do you think about guys who are pros or are good enough to play pro tourneys hitting local tourneys during the week? This will kill a local tourney in a hurry. Do you think the owner should just say look man I'm trying to run a business and you are killing it? Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?

Well this isn't the first time I've heard this argument and frankly anyone who refuses to play in any tournament because there are better players playing is nothing but a NIT! Not worth having in the tourney to begin with. The MOST sucessful local tournaments I've ever seen are the Monday tournament at Airway Billiards (40 - 80 players every Monday!) and My tournaments at RFB Oakley on Monday and Tuesday nights. (30 - 60 players every Mon & Tues, race to 1 mon, Cinti draw partners race to 1 tues, back in the 80's) and they encouraged top players to come. The smart pool players will hope to draw one of these top players. If they win, they feel like a hero and if they don't they have a chance to come away with some knowlege,cheap! And the idea that because they play at pro level," he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere" is really rediculous! Frankly, the better you play and are known the harder it is to make a game that you have a chance to win at! When it comes time to match up everyone clocks you at the top speed you've ever played at and wants weight accordingly! This is why there are so many broke older pool players! They can't get action they have a chance at and if they keep gambling, they end up like Grady, bitter and broke! Sorry Grady didn't mean that personally! Be happy to have these guys around! You'll learn more and often see some good action after the tourney as well! I think having a tournament that players are barred out of is like throwing a party for a bunch of losers! You can have the player set out the week following a win but barring them altogether is cutting off your nose to spite your face!

Williebetmore
06-28-2010, 10:08 AM
If i get to shoot with a pro for a 10-15$ tourney entry fee, I consider that fantastic. Money well spent.

Most cheapy tourneys are short races, (races to 3 or 4), I feel that I could beat anyone, every now and then, in that short of a race.

BB,
Well said, you are a true pool player.

It is a sad comment on our sport that so many players of below average skill not only have no desire to compete with highly skilled players; but also will try to keep them away from the "local tournaments."

Where is the incentive to get better in our sport, when the better you play the fewer venues you will find for your skill? If a tournament is "killed" because of skillful players, it deserves to go away; the "players" avoiding such tournaments are not really players, and I feel no sadness for them.

So-called "amateur" players need to check themselves. Do they really think they have the inalienable right to win money without playing well? Bar tables, "amateur" players who want to win money with little or modest skills, and handicapped leagues may yet be the death of a once beautiful game. JMO

LAlouie
06-28-2010, 10:09 AM
It would satisfy all the people who want to see the pros get some help.

master_cueist
06-28-2010, 10:38 AM
if you play a local tournament and there is one or two guys who win it every single week, week in and week out then you should welcome a better player to prove that those guys CAN be beat...i play a very small local tournament in which one guy won all the time and people would quit playing and yes hes a very good player but when i first came he asked me to not play to my speed to not scare people off so i mostly went into it as just something to do it was only 5 bucks after all...after a few weeks i realized WHY he wanted me to play slow because he constantly won it and people stopped showing up because of him so i decided i would play my speed and im not saying that im better than him really but i snapped it off 7 weeks in a row and when people found out that he wasnt winning it all the time we started getting at least 10 of those old players back every week.....the point is if you have one guy who constantly wins all the time....id welcome someone else in to clean their clock for awhile and show everybody else that they CAN LOSE!

master_cueist
06-28-2010, 10:40 AM
and cuebuddy....im not sure who you are...but being a colorado player myself there are very VERY few places that ive seen or been to who will turn away a player for being TOO good....im curious what place it was and where at...or who you are...

UrackmIcrackm
06-28-2010, 10:44 AM
There is a local ($10 entry fee) tournament in this area played 4 times a year. They usually get around 40 players in a no handicap short race to two in 8-ball, double elimination. They only pay out 3 (sometimes 4) places with the winner usually getting up to $300. Since the house adds a $10 voucher for each player, every one wins (or at least breaks even), the house sells a lot of beer/liquor and a good time is had by all ! HOWEVER, even though it is a short race, the "cream" usually comes to the top and the "semi-pros" usually win the $300 1st place prize. One time a "pro" had just come from the U.S. Open 9-ball tournament and placed and cashed $600. He then proceeded to win this tournament (another $300 "chump change").

Right or Wrong ?????
If you paid $10 to play in a basketball tourney at the YMCA and Michael Jordan showed up to play in it, would you be mad? What about if Cal Ripken wanted to play in your weekly softball league or Ernie Els wanted to participate in your golf league? Personally I would jump at the chance to play against any of these guys in their field in hopes of learning how to be a better player for a mere $10 as opposed to paying hundreds or thousands to take lessons from someone else that isn't as good as they are.

There is no right or wrong with this situation, its all perceptive. Someone is going to think its wrong while someone else is going to sit there and pray that they get to play against the pro. If the mgt/TD doesn't have a problem with it then those that do will have to sit out or suck it up.

cardiac kid
06-28-2010, 11:08 AM
Dale,

One of the threads currently running concerns Mike Sigel and what he charges for lessons. If I had to play Mike a race to three or four, figure it might take half an hour. Perhaps longer. Even if he charges $50 an hour, you'd be getting off cheeeeeeeap for a lesson hopefully learned from a player of that caliber.

Surprizingly, your Pro player might not win. In a short race, strange things happen. Nine on the break. Cue ball kissed into a pocket. One or two unforeseen rolls. Poop happens!

If he played every week and won most every week, the TD or room owner should ask him (or her) to cool it for a while. If they refuse, then give them the heave ho. JMHO.

Lyn

P.S. Wish Roy S. didn't use the banger thing. Describes me to a tee:o!!

Perk
06-28-2010, 11:19 AM
$10 to play Shane in tourney
$10 to play 1 on 1 with Michael Jordan
$10 to try to hit Stephen Strasburg
$10 to catch a few passes from Peyton Manning
$10 to ref a world league soccer game
$10 to bowl against Walter Ray Williams
$10 side wager in a round of golf with Tiger


Yup, I think its pretty much worth it.

Junkyarddog
06-28-2010, 11:23 AM
For me it isn't about the money I just like to go and play against the elite. I would rather spend $500 on a weekend and get my brains beat in by a pro than win $100 in a weekly tournament against a bunch of weaker players. For owners that want to try and cater to both points of view. Either have two tournaments a week or alternate them. You can have an amateur tourney and an open tourney in a week. Or just do one of each every other week. You may even get larger turnouts for both since people will know what to expect. Just a thought.

justadub
06-28-2010, 12:32 PM
We have a similar situation on a MUCH smaller scale around here. A local bar started up a casual 9-ball tournament on Monday nights, instead of a bunch of us just hanging around, banging. Once it started, instead of just us bangers, we got 3-6 of the better league players who started playing, too. Of course they were never around all those nights with the rest of us, until the tournament started. We averaged 8-14 people for a while, pretty good for amonday night. Just $5, nuthin to it, right?

I have heard of several guys who won't play because they don't have a chance to win against those guys. Me, I love it, for exactly the reasons everyone stated here. I get a chance to play real competition instead of just banging balls around, and I get to play against people much better than me, which can only help. I have spoken with a few of the guys who dropped out, and they do plan on stopping back again, which is good.

Not the "Pro" level situation you folks are speaking of, but similar difference-in-ability issues... I'm looking forward to going there tonight to make my $5 "contribution"! :p

(Funny thing, last week only 6 people showed up, we played double elimination to stretch things out. Only one of the "good" players showed up, so I managed to grab second place! Out of 6, I realize, but with double elimination I played 4 of the 5 people other than myself who showed up, and beat 3 of them. Man how I chuckle at that. I'll be back where I belong tonight, I'm sure...)

rlb444
06-28-2010, 01:00 PM
Many years ago I used to play in a local tournament that had very very good players. I dont think I ever won 1st and got 2nd just a few times. But I kept on trying and got better and better. Then on the championship tounament one year I got 2nd place, a trophy and a good chuck of change, man was I happy. I beat the big boys. I think I could have won the final but lost my nerve. By now I am battle hardened. I wish I could go back and thank those guys, because now I am one of the big boys and couldn't have done it without em. I never could have got that kind of cheap lessons going heads up against them.

mikeyfrost
06-28-2010, 01:31 PM
Some of these arguments can't help but make me think what if Mike Tyson in 1989 got to box with the lightweights? They should be honored to fight against him right?

Didn't think so.

ososlow
06-28-2010, 01:35 PM
I remember another thread about this recently, and in it people suggested the winner sits out the next week. That has helped some of the complaints.

I agree! Nobody should be banned from "open" tourneys.

manwon
06-28-2010, 01:57 PM
What do you think about guys who are pros or are good enough to play pro tourneys hitting local tourneys during the week? This will kill a local tourney in a hurry. Do you think the owner should just say look man I'm trying to run a business and you are killing it? Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?

I think it should be a draw to a tournament not a detraction. It will give those players who are trying to improve something to gage their abilities against. However, if the guy is beyond what the local competition can handle and he just wins week after week, the house can put a self imposed spot on his abilities that can be adjusted over time accordingly. If the race is to five for instance, you can start by making him go to 7 and see where that leads, you can always add more games if necessary, if he doesn't like it he don't have to come back.


JIMO

alstl
06-28-2010, 02:51 PM
If three or four high level players show up at a local tournament, no big deal. If they show up every week it will kill the tournament. I saw a handicapped 9 ball tournament in St Louis go from 25-30 players a week to 5-6 players because the same people kept taking home the cash. My experience is a top level player will outrun his handicap in 9 ball most of the time. If you never get a shot other than kicking at a ball, it doesn't much matter what the handicap is.

Playing a pro like for example Mika Immonen once would be a cool story to tell people about. Paying $20 dollars a week to get run over by Mika Immonen gets a little old.

Underclocked
06-28-2010, 02:55 PM
I play in a weekly tournament (sometimes Friday 8-ball and Saturday 9-ball) that often has such players as Danny Harriman and Andy Craig as well as about 5 or 6 other VERY strong players in the mix. Nobody has locks on winning either of those two sessions.

Let them play, maybe it will be the spark that makes a few players start improving their games. Bangers playing only bangers isn't going to involve much learning opportunity.

DunnM1
06-28-2010, 03:07 PM
It is a known fact, if you start banning people from a tournament becuase they are to good. Start saying good bye to the tournament as well. Seen it several times. Not good if you mess with the money, what happens if some no name beats the pro, and all he gets is an additional $25.

8&snap
06-28-2010, 03:09 PM
Reminds me when gary abood came in town for a few weeks,only 2 people knew him(tony L. & me) & we just sat back & waited for the storm,they had a $10 torny. & they rated gary a "b" player & that was even more funny. After a couple weeks he just opened up & robbed all of them & a few more to boot, gary,or aka paul,if you read this it was fun.

BuckRiver
06-28-2010, 03:10 PM
I play in a weekly tournament (sometimes Friday 8-ball and Saturday 9-ball) that often has such players as Danny Harriman and Andy Craig as well as about 5 or 6 other VERY strong players in the mix. Nobody has locks on winning either of those two sessions.

Let them play, maybe it will be the spark that makes a few players start improving their games. Bangers playing only bangers isn't going to involve much learning opportunity.


Yes when it is a few strong shooters showing up I see that as somewhat fair but if it is one guy is just coming EVERY week and taking peoples money he needs to be handicapped somehow or it will kill the place. Not saying that the other players shouldn't try to step it up but for the betterment of the hall it is not a good idea to let one player keep beating them every week.

alphadog
06-28-2010, 03:18 PM
Good players with "good" personality can win all the time and not run a tournament into the ground.
Good players with "bad" personality can ruin a tournament even if they do not always win.
Good tournament directors know this and more!

markatwork
06-28-2010, 04:02 PM
I remember going to a tourney yrs ago in Orlando and before I even found a place to park I see Nick Varner and Charlie Williams walking in.I drew Varner in the first round and it was intimidating to say the least...I just knew i had to play smart.I got up 1-0 and was feeling good...then a crowd started to gather.I lost 7-1 but what i took away from that was alot more than the price of the entry.
I say let them play and bear down...it will never hurt your game!!!


Good players with "good" personality can win all the time and not run a tournament into the ground.
Good players with "bad" personality can ruin a tournament even if they do not always win.
Good tournament directors know this and more!

that i agree with 100%

Celtic
06-28-2010, 04:20 PM
This one time me and a couple buddies were out to play a round of golf, we normally do $1 a hole skins. 20 minutes before our tee time and we are hitting some balls on the range and up walks Phil Mikkelson, we are thinking "oh great..." Sure enough he was put into our group as a fourth, screwing everything up royally. We went back to the pro shop and demanded our money back. Just not right for places to do crap like that IMO.





PS: The above is clearly "not" true, but it sarcastically captures how moronic I think the mindset many amature level pool players have over stuff like this. In other sports people feel honored to skate around with Wayne Gretzky, play a round of golf with a pro golfer, ect... And the thinking of those people "but...but... I am paying $10 to play in the tournament!" makes it even more absurd. It is $10 freaking dollars, and you might get to play a guy like Chris Bartram or Donnie Mills, who you would otherwise only maybe get to play by upping $500+ to enter a major pro tournament. Seriously clueless and idiotic attitude that keeps those players in the basement of skill levels, not even seeing the opportunity of it all.

TX Poolnut
06-28-2010, 04:23 PM
I like when pros play in tournaments I enter.

Papa Red
06-28-2010, 04:24 PM
Reminds me when gary abood came in town for a few weeks,only 2 people knew him(tony L. & me) & we just sat back & waited for the storm,they had a $10 torny. & they rated gary a "b" player & that was even more funny. After a couple weeks he just opened up & robbed all of them & a few more to boot, gary,or aka paul,if you read this it was fun.

Our tournament will not allow this, if no one knows you, you are rated an 8. Our rating goes (Grandmasters or unknowns = 8, Masters = 7, A's = 6, B's = 5, C = 4, Ladies not rated Masters or A's = 3).

Cuebuddy
06-28-2010, 04:33 PM
and cuebuddy....im not sure who you are...but being a colorado player myself there are very VERY few places that ive seen or been to who will turn away a player for being TOO good....im curious what place it was and where at...or who you are...

Thats my point m_c.....I ain't nobody;). Thats why it was unbelievable for it to happen to me on three different occasions. First was in Trinidad in the early 80's, the last was up where I live now and once in Glenwood. I was playing well each time and had snapped off their small $10 dollar entry tourney's more then once. I can see it being very rare in the big city but if you play well in the small towns and people don't know you, your chances for bar owners to say thanks but no thanks is much better.
Keep in mind that this has never happened to me in a pool hall but rather in bars.

UrackmIcrackm
06-28-2010, 05:27 PM
Some of these arguments can't help but make me think what if Mike Tyson in 1989 got to box with the lightweights? They should be honored to fight against him right?

Didn't think so.

Really? :rolleyes: Make the question realistic and ask if someone were willing to pay $10 to go to a gym and have Mike Tyson give them boxing lessons. A place where its just you & Mike and you're able to watch how he moves his feet and punch the bag and learn his thought process.

What you've proposed could get someone seriously injured or killed and is nothing more than being overly dramatic.

joe c
06-28-2010, 06:05 PM
In a quick way this is what they did for a more even chance for lower rated players 1 =beginner 9=pro There are different amount of chips to each player at the start they rate you and use a formula of 12 so a 9 rated player would get 3 chips and a 5 would get 7 chips.this equals your rate or skill level subtracted from 12 gives you the number of chips.then the play goes in rounds not races they pick your match from a hat you go to the assigned table and play 1 game the winner stays and the looser goes to the director and gives him a chip because he lost a game then he gets to play another person at a different table this lasts for 5 games played by every person.Once you loose all your chips you are out.So players play allot of different people and lower rated people get to lose more games.Not just one race then go home.better players have to preform to stay in. the next round is 4 games by every body then 3 and so on till your chips are gone. depends on how many people show up for the payout to be determined.Some different rules is 9 ball on the break gets spotted if goes in the lower corners and there are no 1 -9 combos to win the game also the 9 must be called to win the game if not it gets spotted.this tends to get the lower rated players wanting to play more and not caring about one race and out also for the bar or establishment means more people stay longer and spend more .I have gone a few times and think it worked good.Hope this is explained good enough
Thanks Joe Callaluca

jrackman
06-28-2010, 11:42 PM
Some of these arguments can't help but make me think what if Mike Tyson in 1989 got to box with the lightweights? They should be honored to fight against him right?

Didn't think so. No I think they should have played him pool and then ran like hell...lol

Black-Balled
06-29-2010, 06:15 AM
This one time ...people feel honored to skate around with Wayne Gretzky, play a round of golf with a pro golfer, ect... And the thinking of those people "but...but... I am paying $10 to play in the tournament!" makes it even more absurd. It is $10 freaking dollars, and you might get to play a guy like Chris Bartram or Donnie Mills, ...

But you are talking about a one-time thing...the 'wrecking' happens when one person wins over and over again.

How would you feel if a year went by and the same guy won the weekly event 30+ times? Still feel it is 'worth it'?

easy-e
06-29-2010, 06:24 AM
But you are talking about a one-time thing...the 'wrecking' happens when one person wins over and over again.

How would you feel if a year went by and the same guy won the weekly event 30+ times? Still feel it is 'worth it'?

Totally...if I was the guy winning:D!

But, sadly, we both know I will never be him.

Snapshot9
06-29-2010, 08:03 AM
I have run local tournaments and played in many. One place I play at that has good tournaments on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday evenings is getting ready to go to a handicap system on July 2nd. I have seen this done many times before, and it never works out. They want to make it where any player can win.

The place I play at is going from a race to 2 8 ball, and a race to 3 9 ball,
to rating guys a 5. I told them they will kill their action because most good players won't spend $25 to win $40 or 50 dollars. Besides 5 to 2 races are pretty hard for anyone. Eventually, all the better players will quit coming, and you end up with a banger tournament. Bangers are not usually steady customers for tournaments. People that are dedicated to Pool are the usual steady tournament players. I might add the tables cost
a dollar a game, $5 entry fee.

First off, should a 2 or 3 win an open tournament? They haven't put the time on the table to justify winning a tournament? Isn't this really just giving them a false sense of identity for themselves?

Handicapping goes against the tradition of Pool, where you have to come up through the ropes to earn your accolades in the sport. Back when I grew up, tournaments were far and few between, and you mostly just matched up with someone, and if you got beat, you had to get better, or keep on getting beat. Now, you have beginners and bangers sitting arouind complaining because they didn't win. What makes them think they are entitled to win? Do they play that well? no, they don't. Are they educated that much about the sport, no they are not.

If they get into a league, then they will get their handicap, and perhaps learn a few things about Pool, but leave the handicapping out of local tournaments, the short races are enough.

genomachino
06-29-2010, 08:06 AM
What do you think about guys who are pros or are good enough to play pro tourneys hitting local tourneys during the week? This will kill a local tourney in a hurry. Do you think the owner should just say look man I'm trying to run a business and you are killing it? Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?

Wouldn't it be nice to play in a weekly tourny with these guys.

I've found the better the competition the better the players get around them. Unless it's a handicap tourny the poorer player is the real loser if the better players are told to go fishing.

It's an excellent opportunity for the players to learn if nothing else but monkey see, monkey do. it actually works.

Most local tournys are race to 1 or 2. Double elim.

ftgokie
06-29-2010, 08:31 AM
If pro walked in to a local 10.00-20.00 entry tourney...I would sit on on the floor, kicking and screaming, crying like a little baby, break my cue over the rail of the pool table....probably pee and poop on myself....scream at the top of my lungs that THIS AINT FAIR...IT JUST AINT FAIR.... now THAT would show them bastards :thumbup:

peteypooldude
06-29-2010, 09:23 AM
At any tournament you will have people on both sides of the fence.About the only thing everyone agrees on,is the time of day.And that varies

poolplayer2093
06-29-2010, 09:25 AM
What do you think about guys who are pros or are good enough to play pro tourneys hitting local tourneys during the week? This will kill a local tourney in a hurry. Do you think the owner should just say look man I'm trying to run a business and you are killing it? Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?

i've love the chance to play a pro for the low price of a local tournament entree fee. who knows you might win

Koop
06-29-2010, 10:17 AM
I disagree.
I played in my first true Open tournament a couple of months back and drew Jarrod Clowery first round. A couple of people commented, "rough draw, too bad"...??? I was pumped to play him. Yeah, I lost but played respectably and gained some great experience. More than anything, it will help you get over your nerves in a hurry. I had a chance to get to hill-hill and dogged an easy 7 ball. The more I play someone like Jarrod the less likely it will be for me to dog that shot again.

Also, Mike Dechaine plays in this tournament at times and I would love to draw him as well. Do I think I could win, NO...but it would be fun to try.

mikeyfrost
06-29-2010, 11:14 AM
I vote for this as the most funny thread on AZ I've ever read.

The vast majority of these pro level types that play in these tourney are only happy to rob it. Have you ever beat one of them? It's not usually met with a good game and a smile. "You wanna play some you got the 6?" That's usually the first thing out of their mouth. Or you get to hear the equipment sucks or how lucky you got. Any semblance of being happy about the win goes right out the window. You often will end up more frustrated winning against them than losing.

Also if you do win guess what? It's only a $10 tournament win. The pro won't care. It doesn't mean you play pro level now too. It equals up to dog squat at the end of the day. All you're doing is donating. That's it. I don't care what box you wrap it in. Use the competition excuse or happy to learn something nonsense all day long if that makes you feel better. End of the day if you like getting robbed and do so with a smile on yourself, god bless you.

If you feel like playing to play then no issue right. If you get frustrated that someone 4 balls better than the field is playing this is for you.

cuesmith
06-29-2010, 12:28 PM
I vote for this as the most funny thread on AZ I've ever read.

The vast majority of these pro level types that play in these tourney are only happy to rob it. Have you ever beat one of them? It's not usually met with a good game and a smile. "You wanna play some you got the 6?" That's usually the first thing out of their mouth. Or you get to hear the equipment sucks or how lucky you got. Any semblance of being happy about the win goes right out the window. You often will end up more frustrated winning against them than losing.

Also if you do win guess what? It's only a $10 tournament win. The pro won't care. It doesn't mean you play pro level now too. It equals up to dog squat at the end of the day. All you're doing is donating. That's it. I don't care what box you wrap it in. Use the competition excuse or happy to learn something nonsense all day long if that makes you feel better. End of the day if you like getting robbed and do so with a smile on yourself, god bless you.

If you feel like playing to play then no issue right. If you get frustrated that someone 4 balls better than the field is playing this is for you.

Wah wah wah ! If I can't win this tournament then I'm going to take my toys and go home! Wah Wah Wah!

wutang
06-29-2010, 01:06 PM
You don't get it??? A high percentage of pool players are in the 'stealing' business!!!! Most want it easy. They don't wanna grind or work hard. Its up to the owner(s) to 'man(or woman) up' and tell the 'good player' that he/she isn't allowed to play and can't worry about his/her reaction. They must do what they have to do to 'protect' the local players. I have a friend like this. He has all the talent in the world. Can play with almost anyone on the planet. But he chooses to play in bars and in leagues. I don't get it??? Got heart????....lol!


Peace

WUTANG

gunzby
06-29-2010, 02:29 PM
I have no problems at all with it even if the pro happened to knock me out. Our local tournament is a handicapped open so pros can and do play in it. I've seen Allison and Kelly Fisher, Gerda, Kim Shaw and a few of the guys when they were coming through.....Tony Watson has started coming in lately (I suppose he is out....hopefully for good).

Whenever I get to play in that tournament I actually hope I draw a pro. If I play well and lose...well that was supposed to happen, but I still feel great about playing well. If I play well and win...well I am now on cloud 9 and and it doesn't matter if I win the tournament. Of course if I don't even get out of my seat I get to watch one helluva game.

gunzby
06-29-2010, 02:35 PM
Wah wah wah ! If I can't win this tournament then I'm going to take my toys and go home! Wah Wah Wah!

I remember a guy complaining about a guy who won the local tournament two weeks in a row being allowed to play. He felt that if you won it once you shouldn't be allowed to play in it for two weeks. This tournament is large (70-130 ppl), single elimination and attracts an occasional pro and a lot of shortstops and high level players.

The chances of winning it two weeks in a row is pretty low. I asked him why a he should be punished for winning the tournament (this guy is a good players, but not a SS or a pro) when the odds are stacked against you to win it again. He didn't seem to have a real answer for this other than to whine some more.

elvicash
06-29-2010, 02:37 PM
Let them play. the whole field will gain from it and the overall depth will be enhanced.

$TAKE HOR$E
06-29-2010, 03:32 PM
What do you think about guys who are pros or are good enough to play pro tourneys hitting local tourneys during the week? This will kill a local tourney in a hurry. Do you think the owner should just say look man I'm trying to run a business and you are killing it? Should the player know he's to good to play with this crowd for chump change, compared to what he could could probably make gambling elsewhere?

This is a very good question. Around here there is no poolroom and one bar has 6 tables with a weekly tournament but this scenario would most likely never take place with a pro player in this area. A few years ago before the poolroom here closed they did have some good weekly tournament's on bar tables and 9 footers and even though there were a couple real strong players the room owner made it more fair by handicapping the tournament. No one seemed to mind and it did well for a while. I never understood why people would not want to play in a tournament that has some really good players in it because how often do most weak players get to play someone like that. Most weekly tournaments do not cost very much and even though everyone wants to win most people do not count on them as their only means of making any money.

mikeyfrost
06-29-2010, 03:53 PM
Wah wah wah ! If I can't win this tournament then I'm going to take my toys and go home! Wah Wah Wah!

I'm not crying I don't personally care who shows up to play if I want to play. I've been in the box with stone champions too so it's not that at all.

For me it's that I see the flip side of things. I see when peoples moral gets low and they lose interest in the game. It happens more than people think it does. People just don't like to donate. All these arguments for getting better to be competitive are null and void because most people have jobs. Pretty much anyone with any decent money has jobs. Most of the time the people who actually support the pool room and buy drinks and food have jobs.

Let me digress for a moment though. I feel like all the popcorn and tap water dudes that raid the tourneys can get f*cked! I get more annoyed with the non table time paying, one soda a night, win $200 and don't leave a tip bum ass pool playing people. Sorry but they really burn me up and in general a lot of the top players adopt this mentality because if youre spending money you aint saving it.

I would never have this problem. I would do a 3 drink minimum with my tourneys or take the bite on your entry fee. Then free loading pros or other tourney wreckers gotta pay a toll for hurting my business.

Neil
06-29-2010, 04:43 PM
.............

Cameron Smith
06-29-2010, 04:51 PM
Wouldn't it be nice to play in a weekly tourny with these guys.

I've found the better the competition the better the players get around them. Unless it's a handicap tourny the poorer player is the real loser if the better players are told to go fishing.

It's an excellent opportunity for the players to learn if nothing else but monkey see, monkey do. it actually works.

Most local tournys are race to 1 or 2. Double elim.

Agreed. Even if they don't put their best effort into it, you'll still probably pick up something.

Whenever I see these threads I get an image of a Tennis forum with a thread title "Aw Man, I have to play Andy Roddick every week!"

SpiderWebComm
06-29-2010, 05:15 PM
If i get to shoot with a pro for a 10-15$ tourney entry fee, I consider that fantastic. Money well spent.

Most cheapy tourneys are short races, (races to 3 or 4), I feel that I could beat anyone, every now and then, in that short of a race.

What this guy said. If I could play in a tournament with Efren, Earl, Shane, Dennis, Rodney, Allen and whoever else for $20.... who would complain? That's the best chance to see where you stand for $20!!

I guess one would have to think of playing someone as gifted as the above players as fun. Would you pay $20 to play with Tiger Woods? Everyone would. So why would playing in a $20 pool tournament any different?

Eventually, when you hit a certain level... it IS possible to have a great time and still lose (as long as you're learning). Beating a bunch of nobodies for $20 is boring and not fun. Would rather play somebodies, lose and LEARN.

JoeyA
06-29-2010, 05:38 PM
Tournaments have been a part of my pool life for the past 30 years. I remember playing in bar table tournaments (I mean real bars) and never won. I did attract some of the gamblers, since I always had a good job.

About twenty years ago I decided that I wanted to see if I could still improve my game and I started hanging out at the famous Sports Palace.
I played in their tournaments FOR YEARS and never got a sniff at the cash.

I played in the local tournaments around town and never got a sniff at the cash.

Finally about ten or 15 years ago, I won a trophy tournament at Chris' Pool Hall In New Orleans and I kept the damn thing for years. I started getting a little better and started winning in some of the local tournaments. I still couldn't beat any of the local top players and never would I spank a visiting pro. About ten years ago I started playing in the larger tournaments, regional and national and for the most part I just got spanked, over and over and over.

I didn't play in these tournaments because I am a masochist. I played in them because I wanted to better my game and playing in tournaments IS ONE OF THE CHEAPEST WAYS TO DO THAT.

I don't want to call anyone a nit for not wanting to compete against a better player but I will tell you this. I would never have developed my mediocre game if it hadn't been for playing in all of those tournaments.

After a few years of going to the national tournaments, the local bangers were looking at me and wondering how in the hell did I improve my game.

Besides the many pool lessons I have taken and the enormous numbers of hours I practiced, tournaments have been my most important part of my development as they taught me humility and how to be competitive, really competitive.

Owners of establishments need totell their customers that playing better players and ESPECIALLY professional players is an HONOR and an opportunity that won't cost them much money and IT WILL IMPROVE THEIR GAME.

That being said, there are a few who feed off of the tournaments and don't want another hog getting to eat out of the trough of mediocrity.

They set the tone and brain wash the rest of the locals into thinking that the visiting pro is someone who is taking food off of their plate.

Watching a pro play up close and personal CAN DO WONDERS FOR YOUR GAME.

Professional players need to visit every now and then. Scotty Townsend reminds me of the perfect visiting pro player. He spends money, socializes with the bangers and players alike. He wins, he leaves some of the money and everybody loves him.

Jason Robichaud
06-29-2010, 05:49 PM
I don't know how this thread has been going only looked at the first post. At what point do you stop telling people that are too good they can't play? Take a video of the pro, play it on the TV at the pool room and reduce rates for everyone to play and get better. If they don't want to practice, tell them to play at a bar for beer and beat up on the drunks cause this is a tournament to see who the best player is.

DunnM1
06-29-2010, 06:23 PM
I got an idea, instead of worrying about the pro's. PLAY BETTER!

cuesmith
06-29-2010, 06:25 PM
I'm not crying I don't personally care who shows up to play if I want to play. I've been in the box with stone champions too so it's not that at all.

For me it's that I see the flip side of things. I see when peoples moral gets low and they lose interest in the game. It happens more than people think it does. People just don't like to donate. All these arguments for getting better to be competitive are null and void because most people have jobs. Pretty much anyone with any decent money has jobs. Most of the time the people who actually support the pool room and buy drinks and food have jobs.

Let me digress for a moment though. I feel like all the popcorn and tap water dudes that raid the tourneys can get f*cked! I get more annoyed with the non table time paying, one soda a night, win $200 and don't leave a tip bum ass pool playing people. Sorry but they really burn me up and in general a lot of the top players adopt this mentality because if youre spending money you aint saving it.

I would never have this problem. I would do a 3 drink minimum with my tourneys or take the bite on your entry fee. Then free loading pros or other tourney wreckers gotta pay a toll for hurting my business.

I guess I'm glad I'm not from "Tiananmen Square, IA" or wherever you hang? You paint a bleak picture of the class of people there if they act like you're saying. While I'm not saying there aren't people like that everywhere, I've found them to be the vast minority. Most of the players I know are very approachable, willing to give advise if you ask really don't have to win every tournament if you set it up right. I'm speaking from experience now, I've owned 2 bars and 2 poolrooms and have ran hundreds of these small local tournaments over the years, very successful ones I might add! The key is to keep the races short, but dbl elimination and have a jackpot at the end of the tourney, that the winners are not elligible for. On Monday I had 9 ball tourneys race to 1, DBL elim. On Tuesday I had "Cincinnati Partners" ( We draw for partners and alternate each shot, not inning) which was very popular too. The jackpot went as follows: Our entry we kept low at $5 per man + $2 for the jackpot pool and I, the house, added $20 each Mon & Tues for the jackpot pool. There were 2 names drawn to try to break, make a ball and continue to run the rack of 9-ball. You had to play in 4 out of the last 8 tournaments to be eligible for the entire jackpot, if you didn't have the weeks in and won you received half of the amount. When the jackpot grew to $1000, we topped the prize out and let the additional money go into a second jackpot fund so if it was hit, the tournament wouldn't die off, there would still be a good sum to shoot for. The jackpot got up to a total of about $3500 which all but guaranteed the long term success of the tourney. We were getting 30-60 players every Monday and Tuesday night for over 4 years and we welcomed anyone and everyone! Gary won a lot of them but a race to 1 takes a lot of his advantage away. On Tuesday people hope to draw Gary, Joey, Billy & Ricky Carrelli, Joe Brown, Rick Garrison, Jason Miller, Johnny McGrueder, sometimes Howard Vickery, Troy Frank, Dee Adkins, John Brumback and a lot more. Monday and Tuesday nights doubled the receipts of my Friday and Saturday nights in business and on Mon & Tues I had a lot of the tables tied up for the tournament for a while, but as the field dwindled, people would rent the open table and match up. They wanted to stay til the Jackpot drawing and so they played pool, bought snacks & drinks and played games at least until the drawing for the jackpot at the end of the tourney. And as I mentioned, if you cansed in the tourney you weren't elligible for the jackpot drawing. That was another thing that made it work! This is the formula to make a succesful local tournament without baring anyone!

Celtic
06-29-2010, 06:33 PM
But you are talking about a one-time thing...the 'wrecking' happens when one person wins over and over again.

How would you feel if a year went by and the same guy won the weekly event 30+ times? Still feel it is 'worth it'?

If Phil Mikkelson want to play me a buck a hole skins once a week for the rest of my life I am most definately in. If I get out only losing $16 one week I will have done something special, I will lose thousands of dollars doing it over my lifetime, and yes, it would be worth every penny.

I have been in the situation the OP speaks of. Playing Tyler Edey, Edwin Montal, PJ Masicotte, Bernie Mikkelson back in the day, ect... I loved it and it is the main reason I got to the level I am at today and the most fun experience I have is the chances at knocking those guys off. if one single guy keeps winning over and over again then it is the fault of the rest of the field IMO for making it so easy on him. Learn to play~

mikeyfrost
06-29-2010, 06:52 PM
I guess I'm glad I'm not from "Tiananmen Square, IA" or wherever you hang? You paint a bleak picture of the class of people there if they act like you're saying. While I'm not saying there aren't people like that everywhere, I've found them to be the vast minority. Most of the players I know are very approachable, willing to give advise if you ask really don't have to win every tournament if you set it up right. I'm speaking from experience now, I've owned 2 bars and 2 poolrooms and have ran hundreds of these small local tournaments over the years, very successful ones I might add! The key is to keep the races short, but dbl elimination and have a jackpot at the end of the tourney, that the winners are not elligible for. On Monday I had 9 ball tourneys race to 1, DBL elim. On Tuesday I had "Cincinnati Partners" ( We draw for partners and alternate each shot, not inning) which was very popular too. The jackpot went as follows: Our entry we kept low at $5 per man + $2 for the jackpot pool and I, the house, added $20 each Mon & Tues for the jackpot pool. There were 2 names drawn to try to break, make a ball and continue to run the rack of 9-ball. You had to play in 4 out of the last 8 tournaments to be eligible for the entire jackpot, if you didn't have the weeks in and won you received half of the amount. When the jackpot grew to $1000, we topped the prize out and let the additional money go into a second jackpot fund so if it was hit, the tournament wouldn't die off, there would still be a good sum to shoot for. The jackpot got up to a total of about $3500 which all but guaranteed the long term success of the tourney. We were getting 30-60 players every Monday and Tuesday night for over 4 years and we welcomed anyone and everyone! Gary won a lot of them but a race to 1 takes a lot of his advantage away. On Tuesday people hope to draw Gary, Joey, Billy & Ricky Carrelli, Joe Brown, Rick Garrison, Jason Miller, Johnny McGrueder, sometimes Howard Vickery, Troy Frank, Dee Adkins, John Brumback and a lot more. Monday and Tuesday nights doubled the receipts of my Friday and Saturday nights in business and on Mon & Tues I had a lot of the tables tied up for the tournament for a while, but as the field dwindled, people would rent the open table and match up. They wanted to stay til the Jackpot drawing and so they played pool, bought snacks & drinks and played games at least until the drawing for the jackpot at the end of the tourney. And as I mentioned, if you cansed in the tourney you weren't elligible for the jackpot drawing. That was another thing that made it work! This is the formula to make a succesful local tournament without baring anyone!

Thats quite a bit different. You make that tourney such a crapshoot that anyone can win and of course you keep your action. I couldnt possibly see someone winning that type of tourney 70% of the time or more just based on losing the flip sometimes. Where I am the races are much longer. Nice format.

All I'm saying is most featherweights don't want Tyson breaking their jaw each and every week for 5 or 10 years until they get strong enough to fight back. Not everyone gets to drink Manny Pacquio's blood and watch their muscles grow! Also a B&C player tournament eliminates this problem too, its like a study session and the Open tourneys can be the tests.

I'm over the topic though. I'm new enough and know enough lower skilled to average players to be able to empathize with them still. I realized not everyone is striving to be the best player since Harold W.

With all due respect you guys keep bringing up golf, next time you play a tourney make sure you sign up as scratch until you get better okay, nope didnt think so again!

Vinnie
06-29-2010, 06:55 PM
Honestly, what kind of "lesson" are you going to learn in 1 to 3 racks of pool, especially when you are the opponent sitting in the chair the whole match. I would be too upset to learn anything. Nothing sucks like losing a match you never shot in. Just sayin.

justadub
06-29-2010, 10:20 PM
Honestly, what kind of "lesson" are you going to learn in 1 to 3 racks of pool, especially when you are the opponent sitting in the chair the whole match. I would be too upset to learn anything. Nothing sucks like losing a match you never shot in. Just sayin.

This statement has some merit. I just got smoked by the best player in our local tournament this week, I think I got 5 shots in , 4 of them defensive kick shots. It didn't bother me at the time, cuz I already won my first match, and was headed into another round, cool enough for a small tourney and my poor skill level. My opponent is a casual friend from leagues, and apologized during the match for kicking my ass. I immediately told him no problem, it was cool watching him run all those balls, and when he missed, leaving me zilch. But if this were a regular occurance, I could definetely see my enthusiasm drop off for this tournament, even at a lowly $5. I do want to at least hit a ball or two, to pretend that I was involved in the match, at least somewhat. Fortunately for us, there are only a couple of really good players that drop by this tournament, so unless you draw them first it ain't no big deal to us "bangers". It is fun to see the good players do their thing. But I would like to at least have a shot at a ball for my $5. At least once or twice, is that too much to ask? :)

cardiac kid
06-30-2010, 05:31 AM
Honestly, what kind of "lesson" are you going to learn in 1 to 3 racks of pool, especially when you are the opponent sitting in the chair the whole match. I would be too upset to learn anything. Nothing sucks like losing a match you never shot in. Just sayin.

Vinnie,

Heres another take on your question. For years I struggled with a certain force follow shot. Nearly always missed the shot but got position. Drew Busti at a Joss event. He won the match but the same shot came up. He played it as a draw shot instead of force follow. Drew the cue ball two rails. To this day, that's how I now play it. We're talking one shot that changed part of my game. Not a race to one, two or three games or whatever. I paid attention. Perhaps some complainers should do the same!

Lyn

UrackmIcrackm
06-30-2010, 05:41 AM
Honestly, what kind of "lesson" are you going to learn in 1 to 3 racks of pool, especially when you are the opponent sitting in the chair the whole match. I would be too upset to learn anything. Nothing sucks like losing a match you never shot in. Just sayin.

"Too upset" because you're losing a match that you aren't supposed to win in a tournament that you know you're more than likely not going to win anyway?

I guess it depends on what your mindset is when you play in a small weekly tournament. I played in them to sharpen my skills because the competition made me bear down, and I played because I enjoyed them and I'd rather play pool on a Sun or Wed night as opposed to anything else. I don't recall ever getting upset over a weekly tournament, nor did I go into it expecting to win. I hoped to win, don't we all, but if we're realistic about it, unless you're that guy, the one you're currently complaining about, why would you expect to win?

As for "what kind of a lesson are you going to learn", that is up to you. You have the option to turn something you think is a negative into a positive. When your opponent has a shot that gives you fits, watch how they shoot it. Do they shoot it differently than you? You might just learn a better, more efficient and reliable way to make that shot. You have a front row seat to watch their bridge, their stroke, the kind of english they use on certain shots. The stuff you can learn from sitting in your chair is endless.

Do yourself a favor and go to a pro event. While you're there, really watch what they do. Pay special attention to situations that you find difficult. Go back to your pool room and try it the way they did it, practice it. If you give this experiment an honest effort, I bet your game will improve.

UrackmIcrackm
06-30-2010, 05:46 AM
Vinnie,

Heres another take on your question. For years I struggled with a certain force follow shot. Nearly always missed the shot but got position. Drew Busti at a Joss event. He won the match but the same shot came up. He played it as a draw shot instead of force follow. Drew the cue ball two rails. To this day, that's how I now play it. We're talking one shot that changed part of my game. Not a race to one, two or three games or whatever. I paid attention. Perhaps some complainers should do the same!

Lyn

Exactly what I was saying at the same time you were but you worded it much better than I did and in less words. :o

You turned what some would consider a "negative thing" into a very positive learning experience. Every cue sold in the world should come with instructions like "pay attention to how better players shoot & learn from it". :grin:

Papa Red
06-30-2010, 06:44 AM
Question #1: What are weekly tournaments for from a business point?

Answer: Put cars in the parking lot!

Reason: If you drive by a place and see a full parking lot at a poolroom or club you wonder was is going on and stop in to see.


Question #2: What are weekly tournaments to a player?

Answer: Competition, practice, possible match up, and socializing.

Pure and simple, competition is the reason people play sports. If the competition is to strong for $10-$20 tournament, take up knitting.

JoeyA
06-30-2010, 07:08 AM
Question #1: What are weekly tournaments for from a business point?

Answer: Put cars in the parking lot!

Reason: If you drive by a place and see a full parking lot at a poolroom or club you wonder was is going on and stop in to see.


Question #2: What are weekly tournaments to a player?

Answer: Competition, practice, possible match up, and socializing.

Pure and simple, competition is the reason people play sports. If the competition is to strong for $10-$20 tournament, take up knitting.

If pool room owners would take their heads out of the sand for a moment, they would consider getting a database of all of their customers' cell phones and keep it updated. When a big name is in town or there is some gambling action, they could send out a text message or maybe even a tweet to inform potential customers of who's in town and what's going down. That'll fill the parking lots. I can't begin to tell you how ticked off I am when I find out that the night I was missing from the pool hall, so and so came through and played so and so and he never missed a ball. That really steams me because I hate to miss and opportunity to see good players play.

Unfortunately, there's a few people who depend upon the income from these weekly tournaments and anyone who is trying to get in on their bread and butter are knocked and attempts are made to ostracize the better player. Most of the time, those individuals work hard to be influential in getting the better players banned.

Papa Red
06-30-2010, 07:55 AM
If pool room owners would take their heads out of the sand for a moment, they would consider getting a database of all of their customers' cell phones and keep it updated. When a big name is in town or there is some gambling action, they could send out a text message or maybe even a tweet to inform potential customers of who's in town and what's going down. That'll fill the parking lots. I can't begin to tell you how ticked off I am when I find out that the night I was missing from the pool hall, so and so came through and played so and so and he never missed a ball. That really steams me because I hate to miss and opportunity to see good players play.

Unfortunately, there's a few people who depend upon the income from these weekly tournaments and anyone who is trying to get in on their bread and butter are knocked and attempts are made to ostracize the better player. Most of the time, those individuals work hard to be influential in getting the better players banned.

I feel the same way, missed a lot of action games because of this. We have been around long enough to know what it makes to make a pool room successful. Most room owners have no clue, they hire a non-pool playing management and staff and are not around. They make money but at the same time are being robbed. The room that are successful are owners that play or took the time to learn about pool and the players.
The old saying goes "Big fish in a small pond" are the ones complaining when a better player comes to the tournament. Hurts their pocket book and ego. Everyone watches them get beat and start thinking maybe if I learn to play better I can beat them.

Neil
06-30-2010, 07:58 AM
.............

Black-Balled
06-30-2010, 08:14 AM
Honestly, what kind of "lesson" are you going to learn in 1 to 3 racks of pool, especially when you are the opponent sitting in the chair the whole match. I would be too upset to learn anything. Nothing sucks like losing a match you never shot in. Just sayin.

This statement has some merit. I just got smoked by the best player in our local tournament this week, I think I got 5 shots in , 4 of them defensive kick shots. ... It is fun to see the good players do their thing. But I would like to at least have a shot at a ball for my $5. At least once or twice, is that too much to ask? :)

I rest my case!