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View Full Version : I need your opinion on a rule variation I experienced.


MikeonTV
07-01-2010, 09:32 PM
I understand that there are variations of the rules but this one sounded a little odd to me.

On the break my opponent pocketed two solids and took his next shot. He went for another solid and missed.

I made a move to shoot for a solid because to me the table was still open and he stopped me with the claim that if you sink two of the same balls off the break you are automatically shooting for that kind of ball.

People around us were wishy washy about it but I stood my ground and threatened to leave the game because of precedence. I eventually made the shot for solids but lost the game.

Does that rule sound absurd to anyone else but me?

zy112
07-01-2010, 09:38 PM
Welcome to the forum!

Did you guys clarify what rules you were playing? It will vary.

For example, APA rules you are whatever you make on the break, except if a scratch occurs. Where IE in Valley on the break, even if you make a ball, the table is open for your next sht and you may select stripes or solids. The best way to avoid these situations in my opinion is specify what rules you are playing beforehand and know those rules.

MikeonTV
07-01-2010, 09:42 PM
No we did not decide any rules beforehand. My question is that of how crazy the rule is. Have you ever encountered a game when someone breaks and sinks two solids and then shoots for another solid, misses and still gets to be shooting for solid?

BUT!!!!

in this bizzaro world if you sink one solid off the break and miss on your second shot you are not solid!

PaulieB
07-01-2010, 09:49 PM
As was stated before me, it depends completely on the rules you agree on. I have played that whatever you sink on the break, you have for the game. I have been places where if you sink one of each, you get to choose before you shoot again and it doesn't matter if you make your first shot after the break, you verbally declared. I have also seen if you get 2 solids and one stripe on the break that you are solids with no choice and have also seen on the same type of break that it's still open table or even "verbal declare".

I have never heard that making 2 of the same ball on the break is any different than making one of that type. If you make one solid on break and miss your next shot then you are solids, seen those rules many times. NEVER heard that if you make 1 solid and miss your next shot that it's still open but if you made 2 solids on the break that it suddenly locks you into solid, that's crazy! Then again, clarifying the rules and asking "do you have any odd, local rules?" is always a good idea. :)

cigardave
07-01-2010, 09:50 PM
Never heard of such a rule... total BS imo.

It's either... you are what you make on the break (exception: you make an equal number of both, in which case the table is open)... or... regardless of what is made on the break, the table is open.

That's been my experience. Course then... like Hoyle, house rules prevail.

MikeonTV
07-01-2010, 10:13 PM
As was stated before me, it depends completely on the rules you agree on.

I'm aware that there are difference in rules and playing styles everywhere and I agree that setting the rules beforehand is beneficial (ie. ball-in-hand, call shots, 8 ball scratch ect) but I cannot imagine a world where it has to be made clear that if you sink two solids off the break you are automatically solid but if you sink only one then it is still an open table.

Anyways thank you for the vilification and redemption I so needed.

I look forward to returning to this forum for all my 8ball and 9ball stress' or coming back just to get in on a pool discussion.

PaulieB
07-02-2010, 01:03 AM
Hehe, yeah, I know it's crazy to expect all rules to be spelled out before hand on every match ... which is why at the end of my post I said something like "always ask if there are any crazy local rules". This way, if they come up with the "open table after break unless you make 2 of the same" rule you can argue it as you asked about crazy, non standard rules.

Obviously, if a local bar had a "if you are facing north, close your eyes, stand on one foot, and bank your 3rd shot into a side pocket you win the game" rule you would never directly ask about this rule ... but if you say "you guys have any out of the ordinary rules?" and your opponent doesn't mention it, there is NO way he can call it. :)

cookie man
07-02-2010, 03:25 AM
If you only make a solid on the break you are solids, typical bar rule. Leagues are different from bar pool.

Measle Ball
07-02-2010, 04:40 AM
I have always played that you are what you sink on the break unless you drop an equal number of each or you scratch, in which case it is open table. The only variations were WRT the 8-ball itself and/or scratching on same if you were shooting for it (e.g., MANY years ago I played against someone where scratching on the 8-ball was not considered loss of game).

I can not recall any exceptions to this over my years.

mdavis228
07-02-2010, 05:11 AM
Scratching on the 8 is not loss of game in BCA or VNEA, as long as the 8 remains on the table... It's just bih. Open after the break, and balls made on the break (as in the original post) are probably the two most prevalent league formats in the US, and so if you're in a place dominated by exposure to one of the prevalent league formats, those rules will often be considered "normal". Keep your eyes & ears open, and ask about such things in advance. If it takes more than a few words to agree on 8 ball sideboards, you may be playing someone that's more trouble than it's worth.

StrokeofLuck
07-02-2010, 05:12 AM
There are many variations to the rules of 8 ball depending on where you are in the nation (even city to city) and whether it's bar pool, leagues or tourneys. I agree with you that it's an open table at that point but that might seem completely foreign to your opponent dependent on what he's used to. You guys should have clarified first, but being as you hadn't the best you could do was take some time to agree on the rules you're playing and re-rack.

RBLilly
07-02-2010, 07:09 AM
I understand that there are variations of the rules but this one sounded a little odd to me.

On the break my opponent pocketed two solids and took his next shot. He went for another solid and missed.

I made a move to shoot for a solid because to me the table was still open and he stopped me with the claim that if you sink two of the same balls off the break you are automatically shooting for that kind of ball.

People around us were wishy washy about it but I stood my ground and threatened to leave the game because of precedence. I eventually made the shot for solids but lost the game.

Does that rule sound absurd to anyone else but me?

I have heard in some bars that if you pocket uneven numbers of balls that you are the one with the most balls pocketed.

In other words you sunk one solid and two stripes off the break then you are stripes automatically.

I have also played in bar rules like the other people in here where you are automatically what you make on the break.

I have never played where it's open for one ball, but it's not open if you make two balls.

IDK sounds like he might not even know the rules he was playing by! LOL

stljohnny
07-02-2010, 07:19 AM
Never heard of the requirement of making 2 of the same suite. In the league I play in - you are what you make, unless you make at least one of each, then it's choice.

CocoboloCowboy
07-02-2010, 07:36 AM
IMHO these would be no rule questions if each time you played a players meeting was held! Rules spelled out in Black & White, and questions asked if need be.

easy-e
07-02-2010, 08:06 AM
IMHO these would be no rule questions if each time you played a players meeting was held! Rules spelled out in Black & White, and questions asked if need be.

Really? That's a pretty bold prediction to make that if everyone was explained the rules, and then asked questions to clarify any rules they didn't understand, that they wouldn't have rules questions. I applaud you for going out on a limb like that!:clapping:.

Welcome back!

Cheez Dawg
07-02-2010, 08:13 AM
One rule I have heard of is say you make a stripe on the break, you HAVE to shoot for stripes, but if you miss your first attempt at a stripe, the table is open to the incoming player.

hang-the-9
07-02-2010, 11:04 AM
Hehe, yeah, I know it's crazy to expect all rules to be spelled out before hand on every match ... which is why at the end of my post I said something like "always ask if there are any crazy local rules". This way, if they come up with the "open table after break unless you make 2 of the same" rule you can argue it as you asked about crazy, non standard rules.

Obviously, if a local bar had a "if you are facing north, close your eyes, stand on one foot, and bank your 3rd shot into a side pocket you win the game" rule you would never directly ask about this rule ... but if you say "you guys have any out of the ordinary rules?" and your opponent doesn't mention it, there is NO way he can call it. :)

The issue is what is a non-standard rule to regular players is a "well known rule that EVERYONE here plays by" to others. I find that 96.54% of players have no idea what the real rules of pool are, and if you try to explain things to them get all huffy and mad at you.

hang-the-9
07-02-2010, 11:06 AM
One rule I have heard of is say you make a stripe on the break, you HAVE to shoot for stripes, but if you miss your first attempt at a stripe, the table is open to the incoming player.

Interesting, but that is also not the official rule of the game, must be one of those local rules in effect between 12th Main st. and 76th Main st. only :-)

ridewiththewind
07-02-2010, 11:18 AM
In the 'b!tch pool' league I play in, the ruling is that whatever you make on the break, you are suited in...unless you drop one of each, in which case you now are 'open' and can choose.

I have been trying for years to get these women to change that ruling simply because it takes away the advantage of having the break. With this ruling, it has been my experience that Murpy's Law steps in more often than not...meaning that, quite often the suit of the ball dropped is often the less desirable lie on the table.

Lisa

tucson9ball
07-02-2010, 11:37 AM
I understand that there are variations of the rules but this one sounded a little odd to me.

On the break my opponent pocketed two solids and took his next shot. He went for another solid and missed.

I made a move to shoot for a solid because to me the table was still open and he stopped me with the claim that if you sink two of the same balls off the break you are automatically shooting for that kind of ball.

People around us were wishy washy about it but I stood my ground and threatened to leave the game because of precedence. I eventually made the shot for solids but lost the game.

Does that rule sound absurd to anyone else but me?


RULES:

BCA = making a ball on the break means you get to shoot again. Legally pocketing a ball on the next shot decides what group you get, stripes or solids.

APA = making a ball on the break decides what group, stripes or solids you get. Exception, you make 1 of each or 2 of each, then you have to pocket a ball to decide what group you are.

Bar rules of yesteryear = Same as APA plus, if anybody scratches during the game it's ball in hand behind the head string. Also, don't forget the rules about calling all kisses, caroms, rubs on the rail, these vary from bar to bar. I suggest having a beer at the end of the counter and watch a few games if you are in a strange bar, learn the local rules first.
:thumbup:

tucson9ball
07-02-2010, 11:44 AM
In the 'b!tch pool' league I play in, the ruling is that whatever you make on the break, you are suited in...unless you drop one of each, in which case you now are 'open' and can choose.

I have been trying for years to get these women to change that ruling simply because it takes away the advantage of having the break. With this ruling, it has been my experience that Murpy's Law steps in more often than not...meaning that, quit often the suit of the ball dropped is often the less desirable lie on the table.

Lisa


LOL, this sounds like APA. It never fails, you make 3 stripes on the break and the other 4 are either tied up or you are hooked and have no shot at any of them. :angry: That rule is frustrating to say the least.

Snapshot9
07-02-2010, 11:55 AM
That guy is either pulling your leg, or he is a newbie and doesn't know what he is talking about. First off, don't play in bars, just Pool rooms.
Most pool played in bars now is usually by some league's rules, and not bar rules anymore.

Second you only play BCA rules, which is the best league in the country. The APA is a joke, and so are it's rules.