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MasterClass
07-01-2010, 11:46 PM
I noticed that people tends to look for shafts over 4oz around here. I also heard claims that heavier shafts are better.

What is the rational behind it?

Burton Spain built his cues with the screw pins on the shaft side. Is there any benefit from doing so? Those shaft will certainly be heavy!

JasonCrugar
07-02-2010, 12:10 AM
I noticed that people tends to look for shafts over 4oz around here. I also heard claims that heavier shafts are better.

What is the rational behind it?

Burton Spain built his cues with the screw pins on the shaft side. Is there any benefit from doing so? Those shaft will certainly be heavy!

Am i wrong or doesnt heavier shafts = more deflection? or is it just heavier on the end with the tip that causes more deflection?

As to the pin in the shaft, if it were a benefit, dont you think cuemakers would still do it?

billbOK
07-02-2010, 12:11 AM
It's not about the weight for itself, but about the density of the wood. High density wood is more consistent and will stay longer in good shape. It also influence the hit of the shaft, but this point is subjective.

ShootingArts
07-02-2010, 12:15 AM
I noticed that people tends to look for shafts over 4oz around here. I also heard claims that heavier shafts are better.

What is the rational behind it?

Burton Spain built his cues with the screw pins on the shaft side. Is there any benefit from doing so? Those shaft will certainly be heavy!


The heavier shaft, not counting the pin, indicates more or denser wood so it is some indication of a stronger firmer hitting shaft. This isn't necessarily true but I think that is the rational behind heavier shafts aside from moving the cue's balance point forward some which may be preferred by a certain player.

The pin in the shaft is a mechanically sounder design. However it got the reputation as a sign of a cheap cue so the pin in shaft is uncommon among top cue makers and builders now. The joint can be plenty strong enough with the pin in either piece and adding the pin to the shaft instead of the butt only moves the balance point slightly in most instances.

Hu

MasterClass
07-02-2010, 09:49 AM
I was thinking about the way Herman Rambow and his patented method of building cues. where he inserts a screw in the forearm to acheive the balance of the cue. Or something like that.

I was thinking that this would have a similar effect the way Spain built his cues?

Is aesthetic the only reason why is was phased out? Actually i kinda like old stuff. So the Burton Spain design appeals to me.

Just wanted to learn more about the functionality.

JamisonNeu
07-02-2010, 10:30 AM
If I am reading this right you are asking about a front heavy cue?

As far as weight of the shaft itself...I know that many of the top players out there are trying to get the lightest shafts they can. I even know a few that drill out the shaft for the first 10 inches from the tip.

I will say this, it is hard to find the perfect cue. Try adding the weight where you like it temporarily. When I was trying to learn to masse I used coins for cheap weights. I knew that a nickle was 4.9 to 5.1 grams, and from there I used blue masking tape (Painters tape so it wont hurt your cue it's not that sticky). I would tape a napkin to the cue first, then tape the coins to the napkins = no damage.

Ken_4fun
07-02-2010, 10:36 AM
Well -

Maybe I didnt make myself clear but I will try again. To me the best shafts I have had were about 4.0 oz shafts WITHOUT counting the joint. Obviously a joint like a Southwest is wood and the one that are piloted (JW, GINA, GUS) are heavier.

I have had some 5.0 + oz shafts and I thought they hit like a log!

I like a cue that weighs about 19-19.25 including shafts and the butt to be about 15 oz.

It isnt all about the weight of the shaft, but like alot of other things it is a good indicator, or has been for me.

Cuemakers and others say I dont know what I am talking about, but like wines, I know what I like.

Ken

greyghost
07-02-2010, 10:38 AM
Having the pin in the shaft doesn't necessarily mean that the weight distribution has to change at all, it would depend on the pins length and how equal is position was.

Like SArts said it was just a more mechanically sound process, which is why spain liked it.

A shaft is easy to replace....a butt is not

if the pin is in the shaft and it gets bent....make a new shaft

and you don't have to go back into the butt to do work

also the hit is moving towards the butt so action would best be directed toward it and seated INTO it....not the other way around, it actually is possible of a better binding mechanical connection with the pin n/shaft....however negligible it may be

JamisonNeu
07-02-2010, 10:40 AM
Well -

Maybe I didnt make myself clear but I will try again. To me the best shafts I have had were about 4.0 oz shafts WITHOUT counting the joint. Obviously a joint like a Southwest is wood and the one that are piloted (JW, GINA, GUS) are heavier.

I have had some 5.0 + oz shafts and I thought they hit like a log!

I like a cue that weighs about 19-19.25 including shafts and the butt to be about 15 oz.

It isnt all about the weight of the shaft, but like alot of other things it is a good indicator, or has been for me.

Ken

I have never tried changing the shaft weight I'm going to have to try that. Thanks for clearing it up man.

BTW, You may have had spelled it out crystal clear before. Sometimes I'm just slow in the head when it comes to reading, and even more so when it comes to writing the inglish.

LC3
07-02-2010, 10:51 AM
Is anybody other than John Robinson building cues with the joint screw in the shaft?

Tramp Steamer
07-02-2010, 12:34 PM
Hu and the Ghost are correct. I would add that aesthetics, in my opinion, plays the major role in where a joint pin should be in today's cues. :smile:

AtLarge
07-02-2010, 12:35 PM
Is anybody other than John Robinson building cues with the joint screw in the shaft?

Many carom (3-cushion billiards) cues have the screw in the shaft.

The Deano sneaky pete for pool (no longer being made) has a wooden screw in the shaft.

tinh339
07-02-2010, 12:44 PM
I have to agree with Ken, 4.0 oz is good. With metal insert 4.2 to 4.5 oz may be the highest you can go. At least in my own opinion with 15 0z butt.:thumbup:

LAMas
07-02-2010, 01:43 PM
The heavier shaft, not counting the pin, indicates more or denser wood so it is some indication of a stronger firmer hitting shaft. This isn't necessarily true but I think that is the rational behind heavier shafts aside from moving the cue's balance point forward some which may be preferred by a certain player.

The pin in the shaft is a mechanically sounder design. However it got the reputation as a sign of a cheap cue so the pin in shaft is uncommon among top cue makers and builders now. The joint can be plenty strong enough with the pin in either piece and adding the pin to the shaft instead of the butt only moves the balance point slightly in most instances.

Hu

I think that you have the answer - dense wood. That's why they kiln dry shaft wood or used to. My friend has an older Tad and I like the hit - crisp. He took the shaft off and went to a non carpeted part of the pool hall and lightly bounced it off of the floor and there was a high pitched sound. I took my shaft off of my cue and bounced it the same way and it had a lower pitch sound.

J$Cincy
07-02-2010, 03:14 PM
It just brings the balance of the cue more forward....

brandoncook26
07-02-2010, 04:18 PM
Is anybody other than John Robinson building cues with the joint screw in the shaft?

I think Chuck Starkey builds some cues with the wooden pin in the shaft, iirc.

desi2960
07-08-2010, 07:17 AM
all of my cues have the pin in the butt.

chuck