PDA

View Full Version : Which match will the better player win most often?


alstl
07-02-2010, 04:33 PM
8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball race to 11...one pocket race to 5, straight pool game to 200?

Tramp Steamer
07-02-2010, 04:44 PM
Okay, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say all of them. :smile:

Aaron_S
07-02-2010, 04:54 PM
8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball race to 11...one pocket race to 5, straight pool game to 200?

I'm not sure a good comparison can really be drawn between those challenges, Al. One pocket and 14.1 require specialized knowledge that puts them in a class of their own, IMO. Many strong 9-ball players have learned the hard way that they might be stealing playing a guy rotation, but a huge dog against the same guy playing 1p. Hard to say which guy is the better player, we just know that one of them is a better 1p player.

As always, JMHO,
Aaron

alstl
07-02-2010, 05:19 PM
Poorly worded question, and I meant to post it as a poll but messed up.

Oh well.

IMO one pocket and 14.1 are the games where the better player has the greatest chance of winning because there is less luck involved. 9 ball the easiest to pull an upset, 8 ball and 10 ball somewhere in the middle.

Tokyo-dave
07-02-2010, 05:34 PM
I think all these games played on a 9 footer will most likely result in the better player coming out ahead with possibly one exception and that would be 1p. I don't know much about the game myself, but have seen several really good 1p players that don't do really well in the other games.
All these games on bar tables, and I think in order to make sure the better player wins, you'd have to lengthen the races. I admire really good barbox players, but in my experience, the smaller table with the larger in proportion pockets in a way acts as an equalizer between the lesser and better player.
dave

Mike in MN
07-02-2010, 05:40 PM
My vote would be the 14.1 match to 200. Hands down. The greater discrepancy between skill levels of the two players, the greater the margin of victory would be. A shortstop-level player could run off 100+ while a lesser player would be hacking and banging his way 15-30 at a time.

dabarbr
07-02-2010, 08:20 PM
My order from the best advantage for the better player to the least.

1. Straight pool
2. one pocket
3. eight ball
4. 10 ball
5. 9 ball

KMRUNOUT
07-02-2010, 11:45 PM
My order from the best advantage for the better player to the least.

1. Straight pool
2. one pocket
3. eight ball
4. 10 ball
5. 9 ball

Agree completely.

KMRUNOUT

DogsPlayingPool
07-03-2010, 12:08 AM
My order from the best advantage for the better player to the least.

1. Straight pool
2. one pocket
3. eight ball
4. 10 ball
5. 9 ball

dabarbr is da bearer of the truth.

The better straight pool player will win a contest to 200 against a lesser straight pool player much more frequently than the better 9 Ball player will win a race to 11 over a weaker 9 Ball opponent.

the420trooper
07-03-2010, 12:19 AM
One pocket requires a more well rounded set of skills than any other game...for example, when do you ever kick playing straight pool? When do you shoot 3,4, and 5 rail banks playing 8 ball? One hole requires more than just straight shooting, and good execution...it makes you be a good all around pool player...or you lose a lot.

14:1 is a close second, and rotation games are not a valid measure of skill at all, imo.

LAlouie
07-03-2010, 02:24 AM
......14.1..........

Masayoshi
07-03-2010, 03:10 AM
One pocket requires a more well rounded set of skills than any other game...for example, when do you ever kick playing straight pool? When do you shoot 3,4, and 5 rail banks playing 8 ball? One hole requires more than just straight shooting, and good execution...it makes you be a good all around pool player...or you lose a lot.

14:1 is a close second, and rotation games are not a valid measure of skill at all, imo.

9 ball and 10 ball at a high level also require a very well rounded player to be good. You need to kick, safe, bank, shoot straight, make shape, and break well. I think in terms of kicking and kicking safe, 9/10 ball might the most complex. The only problem is that there is also a lot of luck involved.

Mike in MN
07-03-2010, 07:34 AM
9 ball and 10 ball at a high level also require a very well rounded player to be good. You need to kick, safe, bank, shoot straight, make shape, and break well. I think in terms of kicking and kicking safe, 9/10 ball might the most complex. The only problem is that there is also a lot of luck involved.

I respectfully disagree with you. To play a rotation game at a consistent high level requires a player to be very good. However, there is less skill involved in rotation games than there is in games like one pocket or 14.1 in my opinion. Sure, there are many facets to a rotation game, but when it comes to overall consistency, a lesser player will always be left in the dust in 14.1 or one pocket.

A decent player can catch a good run in 9 ball and, with a little luck, pop off 4 or 5 racks in a row. Hell, I've won four racks of 9 ball with 5 strokes of the cue before (made the 9 on the break three times, played a 1-9 combo the fourth game).

Basically, what I am trying to say with all of this is that a well-rounded, solid player has much more of an advantage playing a non-rotation game over a rotation game. And conversely, an average player has a better chance beating a player above his skill level in a game like 9 ball.

1pocket
07-03-2010, 08:57 AM
It's hard to pose a question like this accurately, if what you are trying to compare is the game disciplines, without getting caught up in the length of the matches. Doing it the way the opening poster has framed it, it is kind of like trying to compare a pound of apples and a half dozen oranges -- different items and different units of measurement. If you want to compare the game disciplines, a better way to frame the question might be something like -- given a four hour session between two players, sticking to just one of these disciplines for the whole four hours, which discipline would result in the most consistent record between any two given players? Or something like that. I'd lean toward straight pool for midlevel and lower players, but put One Pocket at the top among top players.

stuckart
07-03-2010, 09:29 AM
Hands down I would say 1 pocket. The lessor player would win less often in a race to 5. They would have to shoot lights out and get some rolls to overcome the skill level over a 5 game span.

In straight pool, depending on how high of skill level the lower rated player is, can get there. (ie. I watched Frost play straight pool last year without knowing anything about the game and ran 40+ balls a couple times.) If you are talking a top pro and a bottom pro playing, I say the lessor gets there more often than in the 1 pocket game.

Rotation and 8-ball are below as lessor players can and have the ability to get there. If the break is working, the opportunities are there, they can win more often.

Masayoshi
07-03-2010, 10:27 AM
I respectfully disagree with you. To play a rotation game at a consistent high level requires a player to be very good. However, there is less skill involved in rotation games than there is in games like one pocket or 14.1 in my opinion. Sure, there are many facets to a rotation game, but when it comes to overall consistency, a lesser player will always be left in the dust in 14.1 or one pocket.

A decent player can catch a good run in 9 ball and, with a little luck, pop off 4 or 5 racks in a row. Hell, I've won four racks of 9 ball with 5 strokes of the cue before (made the 9 on the break three times, played a 1-9 combo the fourth game).

Basically, what I am trying to say with all of this is that a well-rounded, solid player has much more of an advantage playing a non-rotation game over a rotation game. And conversely, an average player has a better chance beating a player above his skill level in a game like 9 ball.

I wouldn't say there is less skill involved, I would say there is a different skill set involved in 9 ball compared to 1 pocket or straight pool. In one pocket, its more knowledge than anything. A good mover can wipe the floor with a straight shooter without making a tough shot. That doesn't mean he plays better than the straight shooter, just that he moves better.

It would be like saying 3 cushion requires more skill than snooker, which is a false statement because they require different skills as opposed to one requiring more skill than the other.

In any billiard game, the length of the race is what determines how many upsets there are, not the game. Its simple statistics. If you are getting too many sets where you run out the set in 5 shots, you need to lengthen the races, problem solved.

Its not like straight pool doesn't have upsets, A players with decent straight pool experience probably have a better chance at running 100 and out against Mosconi than they do running 11 racks against Chin Shun Yang. One pocket also has upsets, especially when players don't play traditionally (as has been the recent strategy against Efren it seems because you just can't out move the guy).