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View Full Version : To Tell or Not To Tell? This is the question.


jmurphy
07-03-2010, 01:59 AM
Playing a 9Ball match and you local Bar Tourney.
Your opponent is clearly shooting the wrong ball such as being lined up
ready to shoot the 5ball with the 4ball still on the table.

Do you let him shoot the 5, call foul and take ball in hand on the 4?

.........................................OR....... ........................................

Do you stop him and say, hey buddy you might want to hit the 4 first?



As for me, I will stop him and let him know he is shooting the wrong ball.
I have done a few times on bar tourneys and I even did it in one of my
matches this year at the ACS.

RobDeBank
07-03-2010, 02:12 AM
I would also stop him and let him know he is shooting the wrong ball... It just feels like the proper thing to do and I have always done it.

LAlouie
07-03-2010, 02:20 AM
Is the loser held to public castration?

CarlB
07-03-2010, 03:25 AM
In a local tournament or friendly game...Id speak up as well. higher caliber or larger tournament, his own fault and my ball in hand. :D

It would also depend on who I was playing, it shouldn't, however if I am in a local tournament, like it sounds like you were, and the guy I am playing is an asshole, rude, poor etiquette, etc. I wouldn't tell him. Most of the time thats not the case and I would speak up.

Circumstantial Is my answer.

"CaliRed".
07-03-2010, 05:49 AM
as soon as you see that may happen, that's when you start shaping your tip or drop something on the floor... you keep looking away until after you hear a shot being hit, then you casually look up and in your best surprised voice you say "Whoa, wait a minute man...did you just shoot the 5... the 4 is still on the table. I would have told ya, but I wasn't looking at the table."

That scenerio is for the ones that would not tell him... better to do that then just sit and stare at him make the foul and then say "Neener, Neener, Neener.. you shot the wrong ball.... I get ball in hand"

Personally.. I usually tell the guy in friendly gambling. In a big tournament, I probably wouldn't say anything. But in gambling.... things could get ugly if you don't fess up. There's 2 kinds of reactions you might get if you don't say anything... One type of guy will say "Yep, your right.. ball in hand" and not be pissed at all. The other guy is going to think you just did the most unthinkable crime in the world. And he's going to hold it against you the rest of the set.

It might then end in a fight, a argument in order to get out of the set, or you might not get paid.

So if you do it, and you pick the wrong type of guy to do it too... it's really not worth it in the long run.

justadub
07-03-2010, 05:53 AM
Pretty much like everyone else so far.... Local bar tournament I always tell them. Were I ever to get into a big(ger) tournament, I probably wouldn't.

Falcon Eddie
07-03-2010, 06:56 AM
Local tournaments usually means you know the people you're playing . So that also means it depends. There are a couple of players I would let shoot the wrong ball and take ball in hand . Depends on who's shooting it.

Tramp Steamer
07-03-2010, 07:17 AM
I pretty much think you did the right thing here jm. I've done it a couple of times myself. Once I waited a couple of days and sent the guy an email, and another time I sent a post card. :wink:

Mike in MN
07-03-2010, 07:26 AM
There was a HUGE thread about this last month, but I can't remember what it was called, so the search did me no good. There were several pages of discussion and debate about this exact situation. I think NewStroke started it, but I'm not 100% sure on that. If anyone else remembers that thread, or can find it, maybe they can post the link here. It was a goodie.

Lance Link
07-03-2010, 08:27 AM
Depends on the player and the situation.

Regular league night or low $ tourney, below average player, "Before you shoot that 5, you might wanna check out that 4 ball"...

Flip it around... if the winner of that game takes the team to Las Vegas...

Playoffs or large tourney, regardless of average or demeanor, they are in that situation for a reason. At that point they should know how to count.

scratchs
07-03-2010, 08:33 AM
If earl was shooting, I would wait until he made the shot then inform him he fouled..so I could watch him go off..any body else, I 'd say something..

ShootingArts
07-03-2010, 09:15 AM
Being nice is one of the best shark moves of all! :thumbup:

Hu

12squared
07-03-2010, 09:29 AM
I would tell them. But... I told a competitor I didn't know that he was shooting the wrong ball, while playing in a Reno tourney some years ago, he got indignant with me and said "I know" (he didn't) and never thanked me. If I could ever remember who that was and was playing him again, I would not tell him.

So to revise my statement, I would tell them most of the time ;).

Dave

enzo
07-03-2010, 09:42 AM
i say let him keep shooting even after the foul, if he starts to shoot the 6, let him go (then call foul, or if he pockets it, let him go to the 7).... if he moves his attention to the 4, stand up and say you shot the 5 just now. this is the move.

Playing a 9Ball match and you local Bar Tourney.
Your opponent is clearly shooting the wrong ball such as being lined up
ready to shoot the 5ball with the 4ball still on the table.

Do you let him shoot the 5, call foul and take ball in hand on the 4?

.........................................OR....... ........................................

Do you stop him and say, hey buddy you might want to hit the 4 first?



As for me, I will stop him and let him know he is shooting the wrong ball.
I have done a few times on bar tourneys and I even did it in one of my
matches this year at the ACS.

hon400ex
07-03-2010, 11:02 AM
I was playing for the bubble last night in a small $5 tournament, and double hit the cue ball and gave my oppenent BIH. No one else realized it, and several people asked what happened. Different situation, I know, but I have always told if they were going to hit the wrong ball.

BWTadpole
07-03-2010, 11:20 AM
I'd definitely want to stop him and tell him he's shooting the wrong ball. This reminds me of a happening in my last ACS league session. We're starting the last game of the match and I've got a great shot at getting high scratch score for the week with a strong first game and two BnRs. I break dry, scratch, and my opponent lines up for a shot with the cueball outside of the kitchen. I'm in my seat, yelling towards him, "Bill. HEY BILL! BILL!" He fires off his first (illegal) shot and makes it. I'm so miffed because I thought he ignored me and I'm complaining to my teammates so much that I don't see him shoot his second shot, so I can't call the foul anymore. I still won the fourth game, and the match, but I could've had 5 or 6 more points than I got.

jmurphy
07-03-2010, 03:43 PM
I did hear a story but let me stress this is hearsay so I can't verify it.

Singles Mens Open 8Ball (National or Regional tournament not sure)

Player A:
Breaks the balls but he had accidentally place the cue ball
outside the Kitchen when breaking.

Player B:
Noticed this issue before the break took place but sat
smiling in his chair and lets player A break from outside the kitchen,
and then yells foul.

Player A:
Calls the Ref. over to talk about it.

Ref:
Asks Player B to describe what happened.

Player B:
Tells Ref that Player A placed the ball outside the kitchen and then
broke the balls.

Ref:
Asks Player B if he noticed this before the break happened.

Player B:
Says YES

Ref:
Asks Player B if he notified Player A

Player B:
Says NO I waited until after Player A broke to call a foul.

Ref:
Calls un-sportsmen like conduct on Player B &
forfeits the match to Player A.

Mike in MN
07-03-2010, 03:52 PM
I did hear a story but let me stress this is hearsay so I can't verify it.

Singles Mens Open 8Ball (National or Regional tournament not sure)

Player A:
Breaks the balls but he had accidentally place the cue ball
outside the Kitchen when breaking.

Player B:
Noticed this issue before the break took place but sat
smiling in his chair and lets player A break from outside the kitchen,
and then yells foul.

Player A:
Calls the Ref. over to talk about it.

Ref:
Asks Player B to describe what happened.

Player B:
Tells Ref that Player A placed the ball outside the kitchen and then
broke the balls.

Ref:
Asks Player B if he noticed this before the break happened.

Player B:
Says YES

Ref:
Asks Player B if he notified Player A

Player B:
Says NO I waited until after Player A broke to call a foul.

Ref:
Calls un-sportsmen like conduct on Player B &
forfeits the match to Player A.

Sounds unlikely. No offense, just seems like that's a little far-fetched.

randyg
07-03-2010, 03:56 PM
I think that you are doing him a better long range favor by letting him shoot.

You snooze-You looze....SPF=randyg

Ctwitty
07-03-2010, 03:57 PM
Playing a 9Ball match and you local Bar Tourney.
Your opponent is clearly shooting the wrong ball such as being lined up
ready to shoot the 5ball with the 4ball still on the table.

Do you let him shoot the 5, call foul and take ball in hand on the 4?

.........................................OR....... ........................................

Do you stop him and say, hey buddy you might want to hit the 4 first?



As for me, I will stop him and let him know he is shooting the wrong ball.
I have done a few times on bar tourneys and I even did it in one of my
matches this year at the ACS.



I agree with most of the posts on here that if you are playing with a buddy or small local tournament you probably won't care and will mention that they are on the wrong ball. However, it still isn't your responsiblilty
to shoot someone else's game for them. at what point do you tell the guy. You see him shooting the 5 with the 4 left. do you say, hey man
be sure to put a little extra english on that to get it back on the four. or maybe the shot before that when he was hitting it easy to get on the 5 and you think he might be hooked. Come on, it is not your job nor is it unsportsmanlike to let them shoot their game and you shoot yours.

We have all shot the wrong ball at times and it was no one's fault but our own and we shouldn't blame someone else when we don't pay attention.

ridewiththewind
07-03-2010, 04:19 PM
BCAPL rules clearly state that if you do not call the foul immediately and your opponent takes another shot...he is clear to continue shooting as if the foul never happened, until he actually does foul, or the game is over.

BCAPL Rules 1.23 Fouls Not Called

Any foul not called before the next stroke is taken is considered to have not occurred. The failure to call a foul on any previous shot does not restrict the ability to call a similar foul on any future shot.

As for myself...in a friendly tournament, I'll forewarn my opponent all day long before the foul actually takes place. Although, there is a player or two I might not simply because they are jerks.

Lisa

jmurphy
07-03-2010, 05:02 PM
Sounds unlikely. No offense, just seems like that's a little far-fetched.

No Offence taken, like I said this was a story that someone told me.
I have no idea if it is true or not but I thought I would throw it out there
to see what would come of it.

DelaWho???
07-04-2010, 05:09 AM
I don't know what's in my opponent's head most of the time. People look at shots all the time and I don't interupt and tell them they are on the 4. If I do notice it (sometimes I'm not paying attention curses ADD) I'll wait until I am sure you're really going to hit the wrong ball and I'll tell you before you pull the trigger.

I've had this foul called on me and the guy just watched me F up and then called foul. This has happened on more than one occasion with different opponents.

It is my responsibility to know what I am supposed to shoot. It is my responsibility to pay attention to the game and to what my opponent is doing.
It is not my responsibility to tell you what ball you are shooting every time I miss. Can you imagine ending every turn with "you're on the three ball"?


:cool:

jmurphy
07-04-2010, 07:16 AM
I don't know what's in my opponent's head most of the time. People look at shots all the time and I don't interupt and tell them they are on the 4. If I do notice it (sometimes I'm not paying attention curses ADD) I'll wait until I am sure you're really going to hit the wrong ball and I'll tell you before you pull the trigger.

I've had this foul called on me and the guy just watched me F up and then called foul. This has happened on more than one occasion with different opponents.

It is my responsibility to know what I am supposed to shoot. It is my responsibility to pay attention to the game and to what my opponent is doing.
It is not my responsibility to tell you what ball you are shooting every time I miss. Can you imagine ending every turn with "you're on the three ball"?


:cool:

What you are saying is true.
At the end of the day I have to live with myself.
I have always thought of this as a sportsmanship issue
or to me it's like when a cashier accidentally over pays you
when making change. I am not there to do her job for her
but just the same I will correct her because it''s just the right thing to do.

ironman
07-04-2010, 08:12 AM
Being nice is one of the best shark moves of all! :thumbup:

Hu


Great point!!! LMAO!!!!

DelaWho???
07-04-2010, 08:21 AM
What you are saying is true.
At the end of the day I have to live with myself.
I have always thought of this as a sportsmanship issue
or to me it's like when a cashier accidentally over pays you
when making change. I am not there to do her job for her
but just the same I will correct her because it''s just the right thing to do.

All I am saying is that I am not going to interupt someones preshot routine until I a certain they are on the wrong ball. Just as in 8 ball you would tell someone to shoot stripes if they are obviously going to shoot solids.

I always give back when I don't get the correct change. Change for a $20 when you paid with a $5 can cost someone their job...


:cool:

Brian in VA
07-04-2010, 08:23 AM
Sounds unlikely. No offense, just seems like that's a little far-fetched.

When I took the ACS National Referee's course a few years ago, I was told that story as part of the course. That is supposed to be the correct ruling. Takes a big set to call it though!

Brian in VA

poolplayer2093
07-04-2010, 08:28 AM
Playing a 9Ball match and you local Bar Tourney.
Your opponent is clearly shooting the wrong ball such as being lined up
ready to shoot the 5ball with the 4ball still on the table.

Do you let him shoot the 5, call foul and take ball in hand on the 4?

.........................................OR....... ........................................

Do you stop him and say, hey buddy you might want to hit the 4 first?



As for me, I will stop him and let him know he is shooting the wrong ball.
I have done a few times on bar tourneys and I even did it in one of my
matches this year at the ACS.

depends on what the pay out is and who i'm playing. is it hill hill? can the guy run 1 rack or does he b/r a lot? is he a friend of mine? most importantly, am i supposed to win?

there's a good chance that if 1st place is more than my entry fee i'm not saying anything!

poolplayer2093
07-04-2010, 08:33 AM
All I am saying is that I am not going to interupt someones preshot routine until I a certain they are on the wrong ball. Just as in 8 ball you would tell someone to shoot stripes if they are obviously going to shoot solids.

I always give back when I don't get the correct change. Change for a $20 when you paid with a $5 can cost someone their job...


:cool:

chances are it'll cost 'em a job they're not that good at anyway,lol. the giant calculator that holds money wasn't enough to help 'em solve the "what's the correct change for a $5 riddle" then it might not be meant to be

unless they give me the change for a hundo i always give it back too

poolplayer2093
07-04-2010, 08:36 AM
I did hear a story but let me stress this is hearsay so I can't verify it.

Singles Mens Open 8Ball (National or Regional tournament not sure)

Player A:
Breaks the balls but he had accidentally place the cue ball
outside the Kitchen when breaking.

Player B:
Noticed this issue before the break took place but sat
smiling in his chair and lets player A break from outside the kitchen,
and then yells foul.

Player A:
Calls the Ref. over to talk about it.

Ref:
Asks Player B to describe what happened.

Player B:
Tells Ref that Player A placed the ball outside the kitchen and then
broke the balls.

Ref:
Asks Player B if he noticed this before the break happened.

Player B:
Says YES

Ref:
Asks Player B if he notified Player A

Player B:
Says NO I waited until after Player A broke to call a foul.

Ref:
Calls un-sportsmen like conduct on Player B &
forfeits the match to Player A.

that doesn't make sense. what's to stop player A from saying "not it wasn't".

Cameron Smith
07-04-2010, 09:42 AM
Tell him. Unless your playing 14.1.

TX Poolnut
07-04-2010, 09:43 AM
it depends

3RAILKICK
07-04-2010, 09:45 AM
I think that you are doing him a better long range favor by letting him shoot.
You snooze-You looze....SPF=randyg

randyg-I agree.

That is certainly the case when playing 'Golf' on the 5x10/6x12.

Shooting at and/or hitting the wrong ball costs the price of the game
($5,10,20,50?), paid to the hittee. After paying-the most you will get is 'I wondered why you were shooting at my ball? but thanks.

This penalty does serve to improve your focus. But, then-'golf' is somewhat a cutthroat game.

In rotation games-I have received/given both treatments-sort of depends on the situation/personalities involved.

Lance Link
07-04-2010, 10:47 AM
I think that you are doing him a better long range favor by letting him shoot.

You snooze-You looze....SPF=randyg

Couldn't agree more...

gdc25
07-04-2010, 11:18 AM
I'm color blind... the 2,4 look the same and the 3,6,7 balls look the same. Please tell me if I'm lined up wrong. (if you don't, my bad for not looking at the numbers, but please tell me.)