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rons819
09-23-2010, 11:00 AM
I've been working on visualization as part of my overall mental game. I'm curious as to the perspective or point of view you use to visualize your shot. In other words, do you visualize your shot like you would see it as the shooter, or do you visualize the shot like you would see it as an observer? Thanks in advance for any insight you can lend in this area. :)

snarzberry
09-23-2010, 11:21 AM
I know one thing - don't visualize the dangerous scratch, because you always make it happen!

To answer your question, when I'm in stroke I just see the shot in my head from my perspective and then just make it happen. It's such a great feeling when your analytical mind is practically turned off and you just see shots, no thought of spin or power and you just put the balls where you want them to go.

greyghost
09-23-2010, 11:23 AM
I've been working on visualization as part of my overall mental game. I'm curious as to the perspective or point of view you use to visualize your shot. In other words, do you visualize your shot like you would see it as the shooter, or do you visualize the shot like you would see it as an observer? Thanks in advance for any insight you can lend in this area. :)

Thats actually a pretty original question.....never heard it asked like that.

I visualize it as a player watching a video of themselves shooting from their perspective......its like a teleprompter.....it plays in my mind just a little faster than what I'm shooting....and I just follow the video playing in my head.
best wishes,
-Grey Ghost-

TATE
09-23-2010, 11:24 AM
I've been working on visualization as part of my overall mental game. I'm curious as to the perspective or point of view you use to visualize your shot. In other words, do you visualize your shot like you would see it as the shooter, or do you visualize the shot like you would see it as an observer? Thanks in advance for any insight you can lend in this area. :)

Here's how I do it myself, it comes in several parts and it all takes place in a couple of seconds. The perspective is always as the shooter.

Once I know how I want to shoot the shot, while standing, I take a moment and stand behind the shot to visualize the line the cue ball is going to travel, and "see" the angle. Then I set up to that shot line.

Then when I'm down, I aim at the OB with whatever tip position I'm going to use, and visualize the path the OB is going to take and adjust my aim to make that happen. It's like an action/reaction thing. For example, if I move the aimpoint a little left, I "see" the OB taking a different path to the right. It's as if the CB and OB are connected like tinker toys.

That's pretty fine tuned, but not done. The last thing I do is the most important. I mentally connect the OB to the very center of the pocket and summon the stroke needed to get it on that exact line. I usually pause my stroke doing this in anticipation of summoning the correct stroke to pocket the ball and get shape.

That last mental connection to the pocket is the most important because it tells your body what else it needs to do besides aim. Just because your tip is in a certain position doesn't mean your cue is going to go there. You have to tell yourself to stroke it right through here --------> and your trained body will do it.

Once you get your routine down, whatever you do, don't doubt yourself. That throws it all off. Of all the things in pool, that last forward stroke is basically all that counts. so make it a good, positive one.

Chris

grindz
09-23-2010, 11:37 AM
At its purest.......... I find looking where the CB hits the OB and from there seeing the path to the end point. Note...You find the end point first, and the preferred angle to be on the next shot, as well as the preferred angle of approach into this zone.. then do the visualization above.............
NO WORDS...not in your mind, out of your mouth, at all!!!

When the shot is done, see where the cue ball wound up vs. your initial desired end point and that will give your subconscious mind all the info it needs to improve your position going forward. NO judgement of results will help you to have a better perspective of what the error was if any.

Try it... no words, just visualize, no judgement. It's MAGIC!! You'll like it!

td

greyghost
09-23-2010, 11:46 AM
At its purest.......... I find looking where the CB hits the OB and from there seeing the path to the end point. Note...You find the end point first, and the preferred angle to be on the next shot, as well as the preferred angle of approach into this zone.. then do the visualization above.............
NO WORDS...not in your mind, out of your mouth, at all!!!

When the shot is done, see where the cue ball wound up vs. your initial desired end point and that will give your subconscious mind all the info it needs to improve your position going forward. NO judgement of results will help you to have a better perspective of what the error was if any.

Try it... no words, just visualize, no judgement. It's MAGIC!! You'll like it!

td


thats a great point that i forgot to mention.....NO WORDS

your brain doesn't understand words like you think it does.....

If you say in your head "OK make X ball here and leave the CB here....but DON'T HOOK yourself b/h the 7.......

your brain doesn't understand the word DON'T....so it takes the phrase and turns it into HOOK YOURSELF.....and thats exactly what happens.

VISUALIZATIONS ONLY

-Grey Ghost-

Ghosst
09-23-2010, 11:47 AM
My vantage varies depending on both the game I play and the position or breakouts I'm playing for. When I play 8-ball I usually play from my own perspective without the need to walk around as much. In 9-ball I will study the table after the break from the foot in order to get a good overall view of how things are laid out. In snooker, I will often walk around to check on where I need to be after the pot and any reds that might be available after my color.

Great post BTW, it's an interesting question.

edit: even more interesting, you had me thinking about snooker and my post count is 147. ;)

Tbeaux
09-23-2010, 11:50 AM
I've been working on visualization as part of my overall mental game. I'm curious as to the perspective or point of view you use to visualize your shot. In other words, do you visualize your shot like you would see it as the shooter, or do you visualize the shot like you would see it as an observer? Thanks in advance for any insight you can lend in this area. :)

Both actually. I start by investigating the shot (observer point). Follow the path back to tip contact point. Then go to the shooter perspective for cue ball to object ball contact point. And shoot the shot. Hopefully I don't lose any info changing perspectives and the shot works as planned.

duckie
09-23-2010, 11:58 AM
I've been working on visualization as part of my overall mental game. I'm curious as to the perspective or point of view you use to visualize your shot. In other words, do you visualize your shot like you would see it as the shooter, or do you visualize the shot like you would see it as an observer? Thanks in advance for any insight you can lend in this area. :)


Isn't a shooter also an observer?

Its always the point of view of the shooter. Your point of view determines what perspective you see.

The point of view from a observer provides a different perspective than the point of view of the shooter. Moving around the table provides different perspectives of the shot from different points of views. The perspective you get when down on a shot all depends on your point of view while in the shooting position.


Now how you see it is a different thing. If you have to think about it, you are not seeing the shot, but thinking about the shot.

FWIW

master9baller
09-23-2010, 12:08 PM
I don't think anybody would be visulaizing an individual shot from the railbird's perspective. Visualizing the shot from your own perspective works because it takes a physical act, which is a left brain function and incorporates the right brain, which deals with performance of complex tasks. Bottom line, something as simple as making a ball and coming out 2 rails to center table is too complicated for the left brain. Out intuitive right brain can handle this and so much more with ease if you allow it.

Visualization is the key to engaging the right brain. Pool players at their best are like musicians who know how to create the notes and keep time. When performing at their best they are completey unaware of conscious (verbal) thought. When setting up on a shot see the contact point, the line for the CB to travel after contact, then briefly "see" it happening by visulaization. It's tremendously powerful for the experienced player who already knows how to do most everything.

When a good player breaks down what happens? Often they stop visulizing and put conscious effort into each shot. This again is too complicated and they derail. Shooting in dead stroke is purely a right brain function. The trick is allowing yourself to get there and stay there.

Many books on this subject, really the basis of all sports psychology. Bob Henning's Pro Book covers the subject pretty well, but there are many others from other disciplines.

ALL great players tap into this, wheter they know it or not, it's physiologic.

greyghost
09-23-2010, 12:14 PM
My vantage varies depending on both the game I play and the position or breakouts I'm playing for. When I play 8-ball I usually play from my own perspective without the need to walk around as much. In 9-ball I will study the table after the break from the foot in order to get a good overall view of how things are laid out. In snooker, I will often walk around to check on where I need to be after the pot and any reds that might be available after my color.

Great post BTW, it's an interesting question.

edit: even more interesting, you had me thinking about snooker and my post count is 147. ;)

you should go shoot some snooker right now then.....before you post again...it could be a good omen and a total clearance may occur :)

randyg
09-23-2010, 01:57 PM
I am the cue ball!!!!
SPF=randyg

stljohnny
09-23-2010, 02:00 PM
I'll add my $0.02 as well. If you're new to visualization techniques, I've found what works most reliably for me was actually running the shot in slow motion - twice.

The first time, I visualize, in slo-mo, the cue ball travelling to the OB, then the path the OB will take all the way to it's end point.

The second time, I do it for the CB, from point of contact with the cue, visually tracing the line across the table to the OB, the deflection path off the CB the rail connecting points until it's final desired resting point. I concentrate more on the Cb than the OB just because I need to work on getting position moreso than shot making at this time.

If I do that for my first 30-45 mins of my day, it sort of prepares my brain to do that much faster the rest of the evening.

3RAILKICK
09-23-2010, 03:27 PM
Much like the 'cuetable' or a paper blank table layout-I like to view the table layout and specific shots from a 'top view' perspective by standing up tall and looking down on the table/shot. Visualizing from here is easier for me this way. Shooting is like driving the car down the correct road. Getting on the correct road-came from reading the map-the 'top view', to know where you are going. Now-if I could just keep from veering out of my lane.

For me, most of the planning and aiming process takes place before getting down on/into the shooting position. The lower to the table perspective helps execute the shot. Whatever actual aiming device(s) you use, I think are developed and reinforced or adjusted by the feedback of success or failure as viewed from the shooting position.

I dunno. I play bad. I just like the top view.

Take care

alphadog
09-23-2010, 03:44 PM
To see a interesting post on this look at Steve Lipsky's post in the 14.1
forum.Post is about a shot he "invented".Great little insight into shot processing-visualation.

LAMas
09-23-2010, 04:28 PM
Visualization,
Before you get down on the shot, you organize it by recalling all of the factors that will go into pocketing the OB and where you want the CB to end up for shape. It should be like déjà vu - for you have pocketed the OB and have gotten desired shape before, and recall it from memory.

Recalling all of the "factors" is the hard part.

:)

greyghost
09-24-2010, 01:04 AM
I am the cue ball!!!!
SPF=randyg

Randy you may be the cueball.... but I am the walrus

Ghosst
09-24-2010, 10:40 AM
you should go shoot some snooker right now then.....before you post again...it could be a good omen and a total clearance may occur :)

58 ... :o Oh well, perhaps at 151?

rons819
09-26-2010, 11:37 AM
Great responses, thanks all!

PhilosopherKing
09-26-2010, 12:38 PM
I've been working on visualization as part of my overall mental game. I'm curious as to the perspective or point of view you use to visualize your shot. In other words, do you visualize your shot like you would see it as the shooter, or do you visualize the shot like you would see it as an observer? Thanks in advance for any insight you can lend in this area. :)

I sometimes visualize the shot from a birds-eye view to get a feel for the contact points... especially the point on the cue ball.

Johnnyt
09-26-2010, 01:23 PM
I am the cue ball!!!!
SPF=randyg

Me too. I didn't put it on here before because I thought it was silly...but that's how I think of my shots. Johnnyt

edd
09-26-2010, 04:34 PM
Here's how I do it myself, it comes in several parts and it all takes place in a couple of seconds. The perspective is always as the shooter.

Once I know how I want to shoot the shot, while standing, I take a moment and stand behind the shot to visualize the line the cue ball is going to travel, and "see" the angle. Then I set up to that shot line.

Then when I'm down, I aim at the OB with whatever tip position I'm going to use, and visualize the path the OB is going to take and adjust my aim to make that happen. It's like an action/reaction thing. For example, if I move the aimpoint a little left, I "see" the OB taking a different path to the right. It's as if the CB and OB are connected like tinker toys.

That's pretty fine tuned, but not done. The last thing I do is the most important. I mentally connect the OB to the very center of the pocket and summon the stroke needed to get it on that exact line. I usually pause my stroke doing this in anticipation of summoning the correct stroke to pocket the ball and get shape.

That last mental connection to the pocket is the most important because it tells your body what else it needs to do besides aim. Just because your tip is in a certain position doesn't mean your cue is going to go there. You have to tell yourself to stroke it right through here --------> and your trained body will do it.

Once you get your routine down, whatever you do, don't doubt yourself. That throws it all off. Of all the things in pool, that last forward stroke is basically all that counts. so make it a good, positive one.

Chris

Excellent! Very clealy stated - this is how I do it as well. Visualization skills can be developed and require practice. Being able to "play away from the table" using the power of imagination actually helps to build muscle memory.

JoeW
09-26-2010, 05:59 PM
While one can take the position of the fly on the ceiling to see the shot, it is probably better to see the shot from the player’s perspective. This helps the brain find the line down which the cue ball should roll. There are enough brain calculations from this perspective. Using the fly on the ceiling only adds complications that have to be converted.

There is another idea that you may also find useful. It seems that some (most?) brains can make better estimates if movement is involved. I suspect that you bring more brain power to bear when you visualize movement and this can (should?) help with accuracy and consistency.

Visualize the line the OB will roll down and then see that ball rolling down that line and you may have a better sight picture.

Another trick is to visualize the two balls as the contact each other. See the CB roll towards and contact the OB. See the balls collide, the OB move down its line and see the CB’s take off angle. It takes longer to say it than it does to do it!

If you do a comparison over several shots and a few days I think that you will find that seeing the balls move will improve your pool playing.

Visualization is a skill and can be improved by attempting to see a candle flame while you are lying in bed. At first you can only see it (about four feet in front of you) for a split second. Later, with practice, you can hold the image for longer and longer periods of time.

Probably only need about five minutes of practice a night until you can hold that image for about one second (that is a long time).

pooltchr
09-26-2010, 07:14 PM
I do my visualization while I am standing, so that is the perspective I see it from.

Very interesting thread, and perhaps one of the most overlooked aspects of shooting.

I do a little drill with my students in pool school, where I ask them to visualize the shot. When they tell me they have done it, I hold a piece of paper between the cue ball and the object ball and ask them to shoot. The vast majority will miss. Then I tell them to visualize EVERYTHING about the shot...where their bridge hand will be, where the cue will be on line with the shot, the reletive position of the cue ball and object ball, and everything else about the shot. When I block their vision the second time, there is a remarkable improvement in the success of the second shot.

You have to train yourself to really visualize every shot. It's amazing how your brain can take the images you put in place, and transform them into action that mirrors the image.

Steve

MitchAlsup
09-26-2010, 07:23 PM
I was trying to expalin this very question to a friend of mine (who does not shoot pool) a couple of weeks ago, but is otherwise very visual.

What blurted out of my mouth was something like :: "Do you remember the dancing elephants scene in Fantasia?" We both laughed...

And instantly it was perfectly clear what you need to visualize about the shot..