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Vahmurka
09-24-2010, 02:33 PM
I would like to ask for help from those AZers who know Japanese and play or watch pool ;) So that they know what runout is (though I believe any forum member does know that). Could you provide me with a picture illustrating "runout" word in Japanese? The reason I'm asking for a picture is that Asian text encodings usually require special language settings in operating system to be shown properly. So could you please write this Japanese word with some fancy-looking font and make an image or screenshot.
Thanks in advance.

sfleinen
09-24-2010, 02:53 PM
I would like to ask for help from those AZers who know Japanese and play or watch pool ;) So that they know what runout is (though I believe any forum member does know that). Could you provide me with a picture illustrating "runout" word in Japanese? The reason I'm asking for a picture is that Asian text encodings usually require special language settings in operating system to be shown properly. So could you please write this Japanese word with some fancy-looking font and make an image or screenshot.
Thanks in advance.

Vahmurka:

Have you tried Yahoo's BabelFish?

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

According to their translation of the words "runout" and "run-out", they both are this:

ふれ

Translating the two separate words "run out" leads to this:

動かしなさい

Now I don't speak/write Japanese at all, so obviously you'll need to get verification from someone that does, which one of these two is correct, related to pool's meaning of "running the balls out."

Hope this is at least a step in the right direction?
-Sean

Vahmurka
09-24-2010, 04:30 PM
thanks for a try Sean. That's how it looks on my laptop, hence I'm asking for a picture. Yes, I (or better my friend who needs to know that) did try some guessing around. Now he would like to know for sure.

ctyhntr
09-24-2010, 06:30 PM
Babelfish will give you a literal translation, but what you really need is the cultural cognate. So, we need someone to chime in that is familiar with japanese pool lingo, maybe Mullyman can help.

I'm going to take an educated guess that there is no native japanese word for run-out as billiards is not a native game. The japanese language segregates between native and non-native origins. So, it wouldn't be correct to use hiragana of ふれ (pronounced FU RE) in your first example, or the kanji (chinese characters) in the second example.

The japanese use the phonetic katagana 'alphabet' for loan words. For example, japanese style cartoons are called A NI ME , アニメ (from the english loan word, animation). Another example is japanese style curry, (KA RE), as the curry spice was introduced to japan by the west. Take notice next time you order japanese curry at a japanese restaurant, they'll take away your chopsticks and bring you a spoon (western eating implement.

So, I'm going guess its a loan word, and will be written in katakana script and sound like the english phrase for run-out.

bigg7
09-25-2010, 07:49 AM
The japanese word for run out is matsuwade tomorrow when I go to the poolhall I'll have someone write it in katagana or kainji.:smile:

Perfessur
09-25-2010, 02:36 PM
I remember seeing several videos of 9-ball break and runs by Toru Kuribayashi posted a few years ago on Rabigon's channel on Youtube -- see, e.g., http://www.youtube.com/user/rabigon#p/u/23/4J28c36TqNM

The labels given in Japanese are マスワリ1連 (masuwari ichiren) for a break and run, マスワリ2連 for two consecutive break and runs, and マスワリ3連 for three consecutive break and runs.

Hope this helps.

nksmfamjp
09-25-2010, 03:23 PM
Break and run is maswari or bureikuranauto as was said before. To just runout without breaking is uramasu. Not sure what you are using this for, but uramasu is only for when someone else breaks. I should be able to get a screen grab to this post.

Btw, I'm getting this from Go Go Billiards webpage.

Masayoshi
09-25-2010, 07:46 PM
The two posters before me got it right, "masuwari" and "uramasu".

A package is a "renmasu" or "renpatsu" and you can put the number before it to count the number of the package. For example, a 5 pack would be "gorenpatsu" go is 5 in Japanese. Non-pool playing Japanese probably wont understand these terms ("renpatsu" is just a general term for "in a row", but they wont understand that it means "racks in a row".

One more thing to note is that the Japanese people I know tend not to count an early combo (even an 8-9) as a break and run.

If you want any other Japanese pool slang, just ask!

I attached an image of masuwari written on top and uramasu written on the bottom. The second image is of uramasu with ura written in kanji. Sorry, it looks crappy, I did my best on mspaint with my mouse.

ctyhntr
09-25-2010, 08:37 PM
Masayoshi.

To try and answer Valmulka's original question, and to put it in proper context for non-playing japanese; Would this be correct, to say 9-ball runout?

(nine ball masuwari)
ナインボールノマスワリ

Would it sound natural, adding yokatta?

The two posters before me got it right, "masuwari" and "uramasu".


[QUOTE=Masayoshi;2628323]The two posters before me got it right, "masuwari" and "uramasu".

A package is a "renmasu" or "renpatsu" and you can put the number before it to count the number of the package. For example, a 5 pack would be "gorenpatsu" go is 5 in Japanese. Non-pool playing Japanese probably wont understand these terms ("renpatsu" is just a general term for "in a row", but they wont understand that it means "racks in a row".

One more thing to note is that the Japanese people I know tend not to count an early combo (even an 8-9) as a break and run.

If you want any other Japanese pool slang, just ask!

I attached an image of masuwari written on top and uramasu written on the bottom. The second image is of uramasu with ura written in kanji. Sorry, it looks crappy, I did my best on mspaint with my mouse.

jay helfert
09-25-2010, 10:00 PM
A semi interesting side note is that there is only one thing that is universal to all languages - the arabic number system. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc. We count the same all over the world. I'd like to know why it is called "arabic numbers" and how it originated, if anyone knows.

ctyhntr
09-25-2010, 11:11 PM
Jay,

Here is an article from Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numbers

A semi interesting side note is that there is only one thing that is universal to all languages - the arabic number system. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc. We count the same all over the world. I'd like to know why it is called "arabic numbers" and how it originated, if anyone knows.

Masayoshi
09-25-2010, 11:59 PM
Masayoshi.

To try and answer Valmulka's original question, and to put it in proper context for non-playing japanese; Would this be correct, to say 9-ball runout?

(nine ball masuwari)
ナインボールノマスワリ

Would it sound natural, adding yokatta?

[QUOTE=Masayoshi;2628323]The two posters before me got it right, "masuwari" and "uramasu".

In terms of non-pool playing japanese people, you would probably have to explain to them the rules of nineball and that you ran from the break to the 9 without missing for them to understand. The general public in japan knows less about pool than the general public in the US.

ナインボールマスワリ probably wouldn't work because most people won't understand masuwari. Although they might understand 9 ball. Adding yokatta would mean that it was good o their b&r was good depending on the context.

Masayoshi
09-26-2010, 12:22 AM
A semi interesting side note is that there is only one thing that is universal to all languages - the arabic number system. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc. We count the same all over the world. I'd like to know why it is called "arabic numbers" and how it originated, if anyone knows.

It's because previous numerical writing systems became really incovenient As you get larger numbers (try writing 56373737288 in roman numerals) and the Arabic numerals also have 0 which allows for complex math. Arabic numbers actually originated in india, but came to the west via the middle east, so the name stuck.

An interesting fact is that for numbers that don't get too big, Japanese people (and presumably Chinese people) use the Chinese number system a lot of the time in writing and exclusively in speaking. This looks like 一、二、三、四、etc. This system is interesting in that instead of counting digits in groups of 3, they count digits in groups of 4. For example, five million three hundred thousand would be said as 530 ten thousand.

jay helfert
09-26-2010, 01:30 AM
Jay,

Here is an article from Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numbers

Thanks, very interesting.

peter_gunn
09-26-2010, 03:04 AM
[QUOTE=ctyhntr;2628365]

ナインボールノマスワリ

mmm good idea for tatoo :D

Vahmurka
09-26-2010, 11:26 AM
wow, so many helpful answers! Thanks to all who chimed in, good to see many Japanese players flocking here at AZB. ctyhntr, I bet you've been learning Japanese language.
I have to read it twice or even more in order to get this all together. Speaking of a tattoo, the question originates from a woodcraftsman I know who decided to add some fancy inlays to several cues, and hyerogliphic "run-out" was what he had come up with. He even tried to guess it himself and did one cue, I will try to shoot a photo and ask you what that actually means ;)
On the first read, "masuwari" looks too long for a signature...

Vahmurka
09-26-2010, 01:46 PM
Masayoshi, could you please check if I understood this correct. I used katakana symbols table to compile this:
153873
I'm pretty sure about "masuwari" but "uramasu" seems a bit different on your writing.
I'm curious why you write this from left to right - for Japanese is usually read from top to bottom or from right to left?

(nine ball masuwari)
ナインボールノマスワリ
okay, which of these says "9-ball"? I already can define "masuwari" :)

nksmfamjp
09-26-2010, 02:13 PM
[QUOTE=Masayoshi;2628479]

mmm good idea for tatoo :D

And this is the eventual problem in all this. IMO, kana would make a poor tattoo because it is like getting a tattoo of the phonetic spelling of runout from Websters.

Kanji tattoos are cool because they have meaning when not in a sentence. They also have original meaning.

Kana just says, I can't read this word in English, so I write it in kana so I will pronounce it right. I may still be clueless about it's meaning.

masuwari is runout in a foreign language, most likely. . .German? French?

ctyhntr
09-26-2010, 07:24 PM
Back in college my japanese language textbooks were all written from left to right. I think the right to left is for reserved for chinese, onyomi reading.

ナインボール
Nine Ball, or pronounced as NA I EN BO-RU

Here is the Kanji for Uramasu
URA MA SU
裏ます

Masayoshi, could you please check if I understood this correct. I used katakana symbols table to compile this:
153873
I'm pretty sure about "masuwari" but "uramasu" seems a bit different on your writing.
I'm curious why you write this from left to right - for Japanese is usually read from top to bottom or from right to left?

okay, which of these says "9-ball"? I already can define "masuwari" :)

Masayoshi
09-27-2010, 01:50 AM
Masayoshi, could you please check if I understood this correct. I used katakana symbols table to compile this:
153873
I'm pretty sure about "masuwari" but "uramasu" seems a bit different on your writing.
I'm curious why you write this from left to right - for Japanese is usually read from top to bottom or from right to left?

okay, which of these says "9-ball"? I already can define "masuwari" :)
You got it right for masuwari, but I think the "ura" part of uramasu should be in hiragana or kanji because it is a native japanese word (meaning behind or reverse).

"Masu" is the word for rack used by pool players, I think its a borrowed word, but am not sure where its from. In anycase, all the times I have seen it written, it was in katakana.

Black-Balled
09-27-2010, 06:29 AM
He's lyin!

That says 'best hummer giver 2007'.

I would be reluctant to get a tattoo if I wasn't 100% of its meaning!

Masayoshi
09-27-2010, 06:31 AM
He's lyin!

That says 'best hummer giver 2007'.

I would be reluctant to get a tattoo if I wasn't 100% of its meaning!

Darn it, I didn't think anybody would notice! :grin:

Vahmurka
09-28-2010, 04:33 AM
so do I get it right that masuwari can not be written in some stylish kanji or hiragana symbols?

Here is a cue I was talking about, my pal browsed several Japanese pool sites and figured out the following as runout, then he made those inlays:
154036

Now please tell me what that actually is :) Hope not something mentioned by Black-Balled :grin:

Perfessur
09-28-2010, 05:53 AM
The Japanese on the cue is pronounced "fure." 振れ (fure) would seem to be the imperative form of the transitive verb 振る (furu), the primary meaning of which is "to wave; to shake; to swing."

chicken ranch
09-28-2010, 06:13 AM
in the phillipines its pronounced "efren"

Masayoshi
09-28-2010, 06:58 AM
The Japanese on the cue is pronounced "fure." 振れ (fure) would seem to be the imperative form of the transitive verb 振る (furu), the primary meaning of which is "to wave; to shake; to swing."

"Furi" or 振り is what Japanese pool players use when referring to angle on a shot. 振り is the noun part of the verb 振る. I think 振れ was probably taken out of context somewhere as it is also part of 振る.

mullyman
09-28-2010, 04:32 PM
so do I get it right that masuwari can not be written in some stylish kanji or hiragana symbols?

Here is a cue I was talking about, my pal browsed several Japanese pool sites and figured out the following as runout, then he made those inlays:
154036

Now please tell me what that actually is :) Hope not something mentioned by Black-Balled :grin:

What an embarrassing mistake this is. This says "Fure" which basically means "swing". It has no relation whatsoever to a break run out. As for "masuwari" which has already been talked about in this thread, that is the official word used for a break run out and "uramasu" is running out after your partner breaks and doesn't make anything and then you clean off the table. There is no Kanji for "masuwari" for all intents and purposes "masuwari" is a slang term. Usually written in Katakana. Kind of stumps me on that end because Katakana is usually reserved for words from a foreign language.

Either way, having "masuwari" put on a cue or, God forbid, tattooed on yourself would look so frickin' stupid it's not even funny. You may think it would look cool but trust me, if a Japanese person saw it you'd get the same reaction that you give when you see their mistakes with the English language.

If I were you I'd just put this to rest and forget about it. If it's a friend, tell him to let it go.
MULLY

ctyhntr
10-12-2010, 08:18 PM
What are some common pool phrases/lingo in japanese?

How would you say, 'call for a time out for a coach'? コ-チ タイムアット? Or Its not your night?

nksmfamjp
10-12-2010, 09:29 PM
It's not your night. . . loosly translated. . .

しょう が ない ね!

Can also be translated as..

Sorry dude. . .I can't keep myself from running out and taking your dough!
Sucks to be you!
It's just not working out for you buddy!
You lack the will to breath!

or literally. . .
Not your work/will/job, is it?

Masayoshi
10-12-2010, 10:29 PM
They would probably understand タイムアウト and コーチ good enough.

For a rough equivalent of "Its not your day." You might say ざんねんだたね! (that was too bad, wasn't it) or ほそかったね! (you were unlucky) or ちょうしわるかったね!(you weren't in the best condition).

softshot
10-12-2010, 10:31 PM
How about a picture of Mike Sigel with a tear in his eye??

12310bch
10-13-2010, 07:04 AM
Instead of runout , it may be easier to translate the phrase," Run the table."

This has fairly recently entered the English slang lexicon in the business
world and probably in some form in the Japanese business world.

In addition, the term has been used for many years internationally in sports to indicate a domination in a series of events by experiencing no losses. ie: A baseball team winning the world series in 4 games has ,"Run the table," and the Miami Dolphins, "Ran the table," in their perfect season.

The expression has actually been around for a hundred years or more.

ctyhntr
10-13-2010, 08:39 AM
Thanks, please keep them coming.

Inspired by others, I decided to create a whimsical iPhone app based on the Magic 8-ball, but with pool based excuses. To avoid being drowned in a sea of 250,000 apps, I decided to port a japanese version.

This screen is a mockup of the japanese version.

How the english version look and feels.
http://www.screencast.com/users/Ctyhntr/folders/Default/media/08f823d8-3cbf-4f04-af8e-3f58440ac297

sfleinen
10-13-2010, 09:12 AM
How about a picture of Mike Sigel with a tear in his eye??

Last I checked, Mika isn't (and doesn't speak) Japanese. :-D

shinobi
10-13-2010, 07:07 PM
Thanks, please keep them coming.

Inspired by others, I decided to create a whimsical iPhone app based on the Magic 8-ball, but with pool based excuses. To avoid being drowned in a sea of 250,000 apps, I decided to port a japanese version.

This screen is a mockup of the japanese version.

How the english version look and feels.
http://www.screencast.com/users/Ctyhntr/folders/Default/media/08f823d8-3cbf-4f04-af8e-3f58440ac297

Not sure if you were serious about making an iPhone app or not. In case you were serious, a couple corrections to your Japanese spelling:

ナインボールマジック (nain bo-ru majikku in romaji)

The translation of しょうがない is "It can't be helped" or "Nothing can be done".  "It's hopeless".

Safety is:
セーフティー

As for the original request of this thread, I agree that it's hard to avoid the cheese factor here. Some chinese (also Japanese) characters aka Kanji look beautiful and have nice meanings. But writing words like "nine ball runout" or similar in Katakana seems cheesy to me. If someone had "Runout" (in English) inlayed into their cue, or as a tattoo, is it cool? I leave it to you to decide.

victorl
10-13-2010, 08:58 PM
I've seen masuwari written in chinese characters as 升割 , which literally means "break the box".

ctyhntr
11-15-2010, 07:53 AM
I need a couple of more pool related expressions.

Here is the latest update on the port to japanese.

http://www.screencast.com/users/Ctyhntr/folders/Jing/media/7b7e3af7-44cd-4cdc-805d-2825ea9e22ec


If anyone can read chinese, I can work on a chinese version.

Not sure if you were serious about making an iPhone app or not. In case you were serious, a couple corrections to your Japanese spelling:

ナインボールマジック (nain bo-ru majikku in romaji)

The translation of しょうがない is "It can't be helped" or "Nothing can be done".  "It's hopeless".

Safety is:
セーフティー

As for the original request of this thread, I agree that it's hard to avoid the cheese factor here. Some chinese (also Japanese) characters aka Kanji look beautiful and have nice meanings. But writing words like "nine ball runout" or similar in Katakana seems cheesy to me. If someone had "Runout" (in English) inlayed into their cue, or as a tattoo, is it cool? I leave it to you to decide.

Masayoshi
11-16-2010, 05:15 PM
フロック - Fluke (フロックだった! - It was a fluke)
ナイスショー or ナイスキュー - Nice shot
ひねりすぎた - I (you) used too much english
ひねりたりなかった - I (you) didn't use enough engish
引き - draw (引きすぎた - Drew too much)
押し - follow (押しすぎた - Followed too much)

On another note, I got 升割, 太い, and 細い entered into the wwwjdic, lol.

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C

mullyman
11-16-2010, 09:24 PM
It's not your night. . . loosly translated. . .

しょう が ない ね!

Can also be translated as..

Sorry dude. . .I can't keep myself from running out and taking your dough!
Sucks to be you!
It's just not working out for you buddy!
You lack the will to breath!

or literally. . .
Not your work/will/job, is it?

Sorry, but Shouganai means something was unavoidable or couldn't be helped.
MULLY

Hierovision
11-17-2010, 06:29 AM
How about a picture of Mike Sigel with a tear in his eye??

This is pretty close... saved it from a couple years back.

ctyhntr
11-17-2010, 08:39 AM
Masayoshi,
Thanks, I'll incorporate these into app.

Mullyman,
Thank you for the clarification

Hierovision,
I'm envision that picture with a dialog balloon giving post shot advice in japanese; see Masayoshi's suggestion.


フロック - Fluke (フロックだった! - It was a fluke)
ナイスショー or ナイスキュー - Nice shot
ひねりすぎた - I (you) used too much english
ひねりたりなかった - I (you) didn't use enough engish
引き - draw (引きすぎた - Drew too much)
押し - follow (押しすぎた - Followed too much)

On another note, I got 升割, 太い, and 細い entered into the wwwjdic, lol.

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C

nksmfamjp
11-18-2010, 07:18 AM
Sorry, but Shouganai means something was unavoidable or couldn't be helped.
MULLY

I added some meaning based on my experience with how this term is used in my daily life. I even flowered it up some, but I can tell you that Japanese may have some very plain meanings when translated directly to English, but the intended meaning of the phrase is quite clear when applied as I suggested.

Kind of like when my American wife says, Whatever. . .or Do what you want. There are meanings for those phrases too, but they aren't found in the dictionary.

Masayoshi
11-18-2010, 08:31 AM
I added some meaning based on my experience with how this term is used in my daily life. I even flowered it up some, but I can tell you that Japanese may have some very plain meanings when translated directly to English, but the intended meaning of the phrase is quite clear when applied as I suggested.

Kind of like when my American wife says, Whatever. . .or Do what you want. There are meanings for those phrases too, but they aren't found in the dictionary.

I like to think of it as the Japanese equivalent of "Shit happens"

shinobi
11-20-2010, 11:21 AM
I need a couple of more pool related expressions.

Here is the latest update on the port to japanese.

http://www.screencast.com/users/Ctyhntr/folders/Jing/media/7b7e3af7-44cd-4cdc-805d-2825ea9e22ec


If anyone can read chinese, I can work on a chinese version.

I am a little confused by some of the Japanese you added. Are you using some sort of online dictionary to attempt the translations?

Perhaps if you just posted the English expressions you were hoping to translate, we could offer a better Japanese equivalent.

ctyhntr
11-20-2010, 06:21 PM
Here is my complete list of answers

For reference, here is the wikipedia page on the Magic 8-ball. Mattel, for making millions off of Magic 8-Ball, don't have any pool related predictions and advice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_8_ball


I am a little confused by some of the Japanese you added. Are you using some sort of online dictionary to attempt the translations?

Perhaps if you just posted the English expressions you were hoping to translate, we could offer a better Japanese equivalent.