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peter_gunn
09-25-2010, 05:17 AM
I play pool almost 20y with good old standard shafts. When predator and other brands of LD shafts come to pool scene i try them because i <3 to try new staff.

When i play with predator (or OB etc..) i do fine with inside english. With outside is horror !:shocked: I must compensate so much that i sometimes aim beside ball :rolleyes:

With my regular shaft i have reverse situation. I compensate inside english, but when i play with outside i just aim like center CB hit.

So why should i use LD shaft when 70-80 % of the time i use outside english?
IMOP LD shaft is more sensitive to tip change, table cloth condition, moisture etc.

poolplayer2093
09-25-2010, 05:41 AM
I play pool almost 20y with good old standard shafts. When predator and other brands of LD shafts come to pool scene i try them because i <3 to try new staff.

When i play with predator (or OB etc..) i do fine with inside english. With outside is horror !:shocked: I must compensate so much that i sometimes aim beside ball :rolleyes:

With my regular shaft i have reverse situation. I compensate inside english, but when i play with outside i just aim like center CB hit.

So why should i use LD shaft when 70-80 % of the time i use outside english?
IMOP LD shaft is more sensitive to tip change, table cloth condition, moisture etc.

i actually learned to play using a predator shaft so i can't relate. to be honest i don't use more a whole lot of english anyway. when i do i couldn't tell you how much i'm compensating

Ratta
09-25-2010, 06:31 AM
never change a running system .... :p

But seriously^^
I also love to test- and tested a lot of shafts- after a long break the new laminated shafts were totally new for me(verylong break, lol). i was surprised how much action you re able to give with less acceleration/action on the cueball with those laminated shafts.

But i still prefer old grown non-laminated shafts. A very qualified cuemaker can do so much with a shaft..some ppl just following the hype in my opinion. A well done taper by a good cuemaker can built a great LD shaft also! Just depends on the cuemaker and the quality of the shaft.

just choose what you prefer. Imo non-laminated shafts allows me to give more repeatable action on a stroke. With laminated shafts i really wondered sometimes^^
This is just my opinion of course- but i swear-lol^^

lg
Ingo

peter_gunn
09-25-2010, 06:42 AM
With laminated shafts i really wondered sometimes^^


I said they are more sensitive to different table conditions etc. Maybe is the same for u?

Ratta
09-25-2010, 07:18 AM
A guy in a german forum tested different 314 shafts- he cut them to have a look inside- and the *whole* which is a bit under the ferrule had a different size on 3 shafts. Even the lenght of this *feature*wasn t equal. So how wanna someone tell me, that the shaft will give a repeatable *feeling* on shots if the material is not always the same. Gave me an inside look towards quality of this brand. For me never a 314 shaft.
Hope now you know what i mean. In my opinion you can t handle this shaft perfectly- for sure there maybe laminated shafts that are always in the same quality. Maybe......

i have also to say, that i played also with OB-1. Played really good- but went back to my non-laminated shaft. OB-1 satisfied me more than other laminated.
HOpe you understood now what i mean-sry for low english,

Ingo

skip
09-25-2010, 07:25 AM
Mr Gunn, why not sick with reg. shaft ? Hope this helps.

CocoboloCowboy
09-25-2010, 07:27 AM
Mr Gunn, why not sick with reg. shaft ?

As thy say if the Shoe fits, and work why change!

greyghost
09-25-2010, 07:40 AM
never change a running system .... :p

But seriously^^
I also love to test- and tested a lot of shafts- after a long break the new laminated shafts were totally new for me(verylong break, lol). i was surprised how much action you re able to give with less acceleration/action on the cueball with those laminated shafts.

But i still prefer old grown non-laminated shafts. A very qualified cuemaker can do so much with a shaft..some ppl just following the hype in my opinion. A well done taper by a good cuemaker can built a great LD shaft also! Just depends on the cuemaker and the quality of the shaft.

just choose what you prefer. Imo non-laminated shafts allows me to give more repeatable action on a stroke. With laminated shafts i really wondered sometimes^^
This is just my opinion of course- but i swear-lol^^

lg
Ingo

i completely agree my friend....most of my shafts that have been on my cues for the past 7 years have had low squirt characteristics. You don't need laminated schlaminated material to do that.

I don't find any diff in using outside and inside with my regular shafts.

-Grey Ghost-

poolplayer2093
09-25-2010, 08:34 AM
never change a running system .... :p

But seriously^^
I also love to test- and tested a lot of shafts- after a long break the new laminated shafts were totally new for me(verylong break, lol). i was surprised how much action you re able to give with less acceleration/action on the cueball with those laminated shafts.

But i still prefer old grown non-laminated shafts. A very qualified cuemaker can do so much with a shaft..some ppl just following the hype in my opinion. A well done taper by a good cuemaker can built a great LD shaft also! Just depends on the cuemaker and the quality of the shaft.

just choose what you prefer. Imo non-laminated shafts allows me to give more repeatable action on a stroke. With laminated shafts i really wondered sometimes^^
This is just my opinion of course- but i swear-lol^^

lg
Ingo

That's foreigner for "if it's not broken don't fix it"

Patrick Johnson
09-25-2010, 08:52 AM
Peter_Gunn:
When i play with predator (or OB etc..) i do fine with inside english. With outside is horror ! I must compensate so much that i sometimes aim beside ball

With my regular shaft i have reverse situation. I compensate inside english, but when i play with outside i just aim like center CB hit.

Squirt/swerve compensation is the same for inside or outside english. Your perception of them may be different for many reasons (I suspect jacking up too much on one or the other is one reason).

So why should i use LD shaft when 70-80 % of the time i use outside english?
I think a better question is why do you use outside english so much?

IMOP LD shaft is more sensitive to tip change, table cloth condition, moisture etc.
None of this is true.

Ratta:
i was surprised how much action you re able to give with less acceleration/action on the cueball with those laminated shafts.
This isn't true either.

pj
chgo

sfleinen
09-25-2010, 09:00 AM
I play pool almost 20y with good old standard shafts. When predator and other brands of LD shafts come to pool scene i try them because i <3 to try new staff.

When i play with predator (or OB etc..) i do fine with inside english. With outside is horror !:shocked: I must compensate so much that i sometimes aim beside ball :rolleyes:

With my regular shaft i have reverse situation. I compensate inside english, but when i play with outside i just aim like center CB hit.

So why should i use LD shaft when 70-80 % of the time i use outside english?
IMOP LD shaft is more sensitive to tip change, table cloth condition, moisture etc.

peter_gunn:

Like you, I like to try new things, new gadgets, new technology, just to keep on top of what everyone is fussing or raving about.

But I'm a firm believer in not underestimating the importance of the basics, of having a strong foundation, of being able to shoot well with just about anything. You definitely don't want your game to become dependent upon any particular technology.

I personally believe that one should be able to produce if not his/her best game, at least his/her very strong "A-" game, with a cue pulled off the playing establishment's wall. For example, during the December 2009 holiday season in Denver, Colorado here in the U.S., I visited my parents who live there. While out there, I unfortunately caught the flu, and was bed-ridden for most of the time I was out there. During the latter part of my stay there, I started to feel better, and by New Year's Eve (31 December), I was out of bed, and although I still wasn't at my best, I could do normal activities. A pool establishment nearby, Greenfields Pool & Sports Bar (http://greenfieldsbar.com/), was having a New Year's celebration on 31 December (New Year's Eve), and I decided to stop in to have a Guinness and ring-in the new year. Well, as I walked in, I discovered they were having a major "End of Year" pool tournament (9-ball). I didn't have my cues with me, but I figured, "oh, what the heck?" and entered it as sort of a symbolic celebratory activity. I pulled a cue off the wall rack, checked to be sure it had a good tip on it, and slapped both the butt and the tip gently with the palm of my hand, to check for unseen splits in the wood anywhere in the cue (which would naturally create a buzzing sound). Since all the tables were already in use with people practicing, I couldn't practice, and the tournament was about to start in 5 minutes anyway. I'm not a believer in "rolling" the cue on the bed of the table to check for straightness as some people do, because I believe that you should be able to play with a crooked cue, and just compensate (e.g. rotate the cue so the "bend" is either on top or on bottom).

Anyway, without any practice, I entered the Greenfields End-of-Year 9-ball tournament with just a house cue pulled off the wall rack. (Here in the U.S., we like to joke and call that type of cue a "Wall-abushka" :D ) Players arrived from great distances to play in that tournament (including from as far away as Wyoming and Nebraska), since Greenfields tends to be a well-known regional league tournament setting. All these players brought their own equipment, and I was the ONLY ONE who played with a house cue.

Well, I won the Greenfields 2009 End-of-Year 9-ball tournament, and I can tell you, many of the players were not happy at all that they were defeated by "an out-of-town Yankee with a house cue." Many were saying some not very kind things in my general direction, especially the ones I knocked out in the early stages of the tournament, who by now were drinking heavily. Since I was the foreigner, I was cordial, but kept to myself. I collected the prize money, finished my final Guinness, and walked out before those players that I'd beaten (that are by now drunk) got confrontational with me.

The point is, that one should be able to produce a very strong game with less-than-stellar equipment, and not have to be dependent on any particular "level" of equipment or of any particular "technology." Low-deflection shafts might be a great technology, but I firmly believe one's game should not be dependent upon them.

My only requirements for a cue, are that it have a decent tip (it doesn't even have to have the correct shape -- I carry a tip shaper on my key chain), and that it's not cracked or split. The shaft can even have some dings, although I find major cuts or gouges sliding through my bridge hand can become distracting. Is this my preferred level of equipment? Heck no. But can I adapt to it? I sure can!

I learned this adaptivity from growing up and learning to play pool in Yonkers, NY, which has a large Latino population, even back then in the 1970s. Lots of Latino players are extremely strong players that can "really bring it" with the most basic of equipment.

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean

ceebee
09-25-2010, 09:12 AM
Hey Peter Gunn, I try to apply a little less outside English, because the CueBall will pick up some collision induced spin of it's own, at impact with the object ball. Plus, depending on the angle of attack, hitting the rail can add some more to the shot...

Good Luck...

poolplayer2093
09-25-2010, 09:20 AM
Squirt/swerve compensation is the same for inside or outside english. Your perception of them may be different for many reasons (I suspect jacking up too much on one or the other is one reason).


I think a better question is why do you use outside english so much?


None of this is true.


This isn't true either.

pj
chgo


i don't believe that at all. i've always been able to get more spin on the Cb with smaller tipped laminated shafts. as far as maxing the spin out i'd say it's about the same using standard non lamintaed or laminated shafts.

peter_gunn
09-25-2010, 09:29 AM
sfleinen tnx for respond :) obviously u knew how to play pool ;)
I just strat this tread to see what people think about LD (players who use reg shafts)... how they see them.
Many players in Croatia wants my opinion about this subject. Recently i discovered AZ forum & i,m thrilled with people and knowledge's they have. I have no issues with my equipment... but if i must play tournament without it, i rather pick some house cue and play, with no LD shaft at all :D

ps: can someone tell me how to determine skill level? What is SL7 or SL5 ?

poolplayer2093
09-25-2010, 09:35 AM
sfleinen tnx for respond :) obviously u knew how to play pool ;)
I just strat this tread to see what people think about LD (players who use reg shafts)... how they see them.
Many players in Croatia wants my opinion about this subject. Recently i discovered AZ forum & i,m thrilled with people and knowledge's they have. I have no issues with my equipment... but if i must play tournament without it, i rather pick some house cue and play, with no LD shaft at all :D

ps: can someone tell me how to determine skill level? What is SL7 or SL5 ?

That's a league rating system. i have no idea what it means though. how's the pool scene in croatia? don't know if you already have but can you post some pictures of your local room for us??

stay cool

peter_gunn
09-25-2010, 09:52 AM
That's a league rating system. i have no idea what it means though. how's the pool scene in croatia? don't know if you already have but can you post some pictures of your local room for us??

stay cool

I play in pool room which is located in the nuclear shelter :D We have there 7 GC3 tables with arthemis rails and pockets around 11cm ( 4,33 in if i.m correct) and one Verhoeven carom match table. I will provide pics one of this days ^^ It,s not fancy place.. but tables are perfect, cloth is new, with magic racks and place is air conditioned plus we have Trotec air dehumidifier so humidity in room is around 50 % all the time...

poolplayer2093
09-25-2010, 10:09 AM
I play in pool room which is located in the nuclear shelter :D We have there 7 GC3 tables with arthemis rails and pockets around 11cm ( 4,33 in if i.m correct) and one Verhoeven carom match table. I will provide pics one of this days ^^ It,s not fancy place.. but tables are perfect, cloth is new, with magic racks and place is air conditioned plus we have Trotec air dehumidifier so humidity in room is around 50 % all the time...

You play in a bomb shelter???? man that's gangsta as f*ck!!!!!! you gotta post some pictures of that:thumbup:

justadub
09-25-2010, 10:18 AM
Sounds like you have a great place to play, Peter.

Don't get confused with the references to "Skill Levels". SL4 would mean Skill Level 4, and really only applies to an amateur pool league system here in the states called APA. Stay here on AZB long enough and you'll hear plenty about APA, most of it less-than-flattering. It is a league designed for beginners, and has over 200,000 people that play in that league, so their rankings are often used for reference. The highest skill levels in APA are SL7 for eight-ball and SL9 for nine-ball. The Skill Level is determined as a handicapping system, also much-maligned here. Really just a reference point for average peformance or ability. Truly higher-level players rarely play APA (or leagues in general, I suppose).

There are plenty of folks here who could give you a better reference for how good the average SL9 is compared to the standard A-B-C level that most folks use. It would be an exercise in futility. Don't get caught up in trying to understand it, it isn't worth the time or effort. Realize that the lower the Skill Level one refers to, the lower skill that player has, and that should be enough for the point they are trying to make.

BTW, your English is fine. Anyone can understand your meaning well enough. Probably better than many who post here and were brought up in the States :)

peter_gunn
09-25-2010, 10:28 AM
Sounds like you have a great place to play, Peter.

Don't get confused with the references to "Skill Levels". SL4 would mean Skill Level 4, and really only applies to an amateur pool league system here in the states called APA. Stay here on AZB long enough and you'll hear plenty about APA, most of it less-than-flattering. It is a league designed for beginners, and has over 200,000 people that play in that league, so their rankings are often used for reference. The highest skill levels in APA are SL7 for eight-ball and SL9 for nine-ball. The Skill Level is determined as a handicapping system, also much-maligned here. Really just a reference point for average peformance or ability. Truly higher-level players rarely play APA (or leagues in general, I suppose).

There are plenty of folks here who could give you a better reference for how good the average SL9 is compared to the standard A-B-C level that most folks use. It would be an exercise in futility. Don't get caught up in trying to understand it, it isn't worth the time or effort. Realize that the lower the Skill Level one refers to, the lower skill that player has, and that should be enough for the point they are trying to make.

BTW, your English is fine. Anyone can understand your meaning well enough. Probably better than many who post here and were brought up in the States :)

TY :thumbup:

peter_gunn
09-25-2010, 11:14 AM
You play in a bomb shelter???? man that's gangsta as f*ck!!!!!! you gotta post some pictures of that:thumbup:

some pics :
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af335/peter_gunn/8.png
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af335/peter_gunn/5.png
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af335/peter_gunn/6.png

i dont have pic of the main door. u must see that monster. Door weighs around 10 tons :D

Ratta
09-26-2010, 01:29 AM
@patrick johnson:

you ll explain , or better you said that I am wrong that you ll not receive more action with the same amount of speed/acceleration with a laminated shaft than with a *normal* shaft?.
Sorry, but this is the first time i say something like this here on AZB:
Don t write something, if you have no plan! or just post something if you re just *against* or wanna write something to be in a discussion. From what i saw of your postings til now, i thought you re seriously a bit *inside* all around materials etc. - but at the moment i m really just wondering about this genious posting from you and still can t believe what you shown up there.
Sorry, but laughable!
lg from overseas,

Ingo

peter_gunn
09-27-2010, 11:47 AM
@patrick johnson:

you ll explain , or better you said that I am wrong that you ll not receive more action with the same amount of speed/acceleration with a laminated shaft than with a *normal* shaft?.
Sorry, but this is the first time i say something like this here on AZB:
Don t write something, if you have no plan! or just post something if you re just *against* or wanna write something to be in a discussion. From what i saw of your postings til now, i thought you re seriously a bit *inside* all around materials etc. - but at the moment i m really just wondering about this genious posting from you and still can t believe what you shown up there.
Sorry, but laughable!
lg from overseas,

Ingo


Dead in the center. Wish that mr. Scot Lee comment this thread :welcome:

Jimbojim
09-27-2010, 12:12 PM
peter_gunn:

Like you, I like to try new things, new gadgets, new technology, just to keep on top of what everyone is fussing or raving about.

But I'm a firm believer in not underestimating the importance of the basics, of having a strong foundation, of being able to shoot well with just about anything. You definitely don't want your game to become dependent upon any particular technology.

I personally believe that one should be able to produce if not his/her best game, at least his/her very strong "A-" game, with a cue pulled off the playing establishment's wall. For example, during the December 2009 holiday season in Denver, Colorado here in the U.S., I visited my parents who live there. While out there, I unfortunately caught the flu, and was bed-ridden for most of the time I was out there. During the latter part of my stay there, I started to feel better, and by New Year's Eve (31 December), I was out of bed, and although I still wasn't at my best, I could do normal activities. A pool establishment nearby, Greenfields Pool & Sports Bar (http://greenfieldsbar.com/), was having a New Year's celebration on 31 December (New Year's Eve), and I decided to stop in to have a Guinness and ring-in the new year. Well, as I walked in, I discovered they were having a major "End of Year" pool tournament (9-ball). I didn't have my cues with me, but I figured, "oh, what the heck?" and entered it as sort of a symbolic celebratory activity. I pulled a cue off the wall rack, checked to be sure it had a good tip on it, and slapped both the butt and the tip gently with the palm of my hand, to check for unseen splits in the wood anywhere in the cue (which would naturally create a buzzing sound). Since all the tables were already in use with people practicing, I couldn't practice, and the tournament was about to start in 5 minutes anyway. I'm not a believer in "rolling" the cue on the bed of the table to check for straightness as some people do, because I believe that you should be able to play with a crooked cue, and just compensate (e.g. rotate the cue so the "bend" is either on top or on bottom).

Anyway, without any practice, I entered the Greenfields End-of-Year 9-ball tournament with just a house cue pulled off the wall rack. (Here in the U.S., we like to joke and call that type of cue a "Wall-abushka" :D ) Players arrived from great distances to play in that tournament (including from as far away as Wyoming and Nebraska), since Greenfields tends to be a well-known regional league tournament setting. All these players brought their own equipment, and I was the ONLY ONE who played with a house cue.

Well, I won the Greenfields 2009 End-of-Year 9-ball tournament, and I can tell you, many of the players were not happy at all that they were defeated by "an out-of-town Yankee with a house cue." Many were saying some not very kind things in my general direction, especially the ones I knocked out in the early stages of the tournament, who by now were drinking heavily. Since I was the foreigner, I was cordial, but kept to myself. I collected the prize money, finished my final Guinness, and walked out before those players that I'd beaten (that are by now drunk) got confrontational with me.

The point is, that one should be able to produce a very strong game with less-than-stellar equipment, and not have to be dependent on any particular "level" of equipment or of any particular "technology." Low-deflection shafts might be a great technology, but I firmly believe one's game should not be dependent upon them.

My only requirements for a cue, are that it have a decent tip (it doesn't even have to have the correct shape -- I carry a tip shaper on my key chain), and that it's not cracked or split. The shaft can even have some dings, although I find major cuts or gouges sliding through my bridge hand can become distracting. Is this my preferred level of equipment? Heck no. But can I adapt to it? I sure can!

I learned this adaptivity from growing up and learning to play pool in Yonkers, NY, which has a large Latino population, even back then in the 1970s. Lots of Latino players are extremely strong players that can "really bring it" with the most basic of equipment.

Hope this is helpful!
-Sean

This must have been a tournament with weak players only and you happened to be better than them. There is no way someone can feel confident with a house cue that they don't know about with a different hit, feel and deflection UNLESS it plays exactly as your playing cue that you are familiar with. If the field was strong this could have ended different for you.

That's only my guess and of course no offense is meant if you feel any.

.

Patrick Johnson
09-27-2010, 12:41 PM
poolplayer2093:
i've always been able to get more spin on the Cb with smaller tipped laminated shafts.
No you haven't. I've posted many times a simple test you can do to prove yourself wrong.

pj
chgo

SCCues
09-27-2010, 01:00 PM
peter_gunn:


But I'm a firm believer in not underestimating the importance of the basics, of having a strong foundation, of being able to shoot well with just about anything. You definitely don't want your game to become dependent upon any particular technology.


-Sean

This is a good point. I play with a predator 314-2 most of the time, but I have a couple of shafts that have been tapered to a size I like and I play with them a lot. I do play better with the predator shafts probably because that's what I use when i'm playing an important match and i've come to rely on the predator characteristics more than my solid maple shafts. Some may disagree with me, but I can do things easier with my solid maple shafts over the predator shafts and if it weren't for deflection i'd rather play with solid maple shafts.

James