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Rickw
04-20-2003, 04:46 PM
I was playing this guy the other night. He's an average B player, i.e., he can run 4 or 5 balls if they're open and occasionally runs a rack of 9 ball. I guess I'd rate myself a medium to low A player, I can win a match in a race to 5 in 5 innings, sometimes less sometimes more.

Anyway, I'm playing this guy and he's getting rolls, I mean he's really getting rolls!! I figured at first it was no big deal but we played for about 2 hours and he continued to get these rolls for the entire 2 hours! All I could do was laugh! I mean it was unbelievable! I didn't lose my cool although inside I was a basket case! We all get rolls from time to time, but usually, after a while, they subside. I didn't think the balls could continue to roll that way for that long! I kept trying to put a positive spin on it like, this is good for me to practice my kicks but it was getting more and more difficult.

Does anyone have some good advice on how to keep your composure when this happens?

1-P
04-20-2003, 06:01 PM
I would suggest that what really happened is that you underestimated your opponent.

Rickw
04-20-2003, 06:53 PM
That thought ran through my mind. But, I know him and have played him many times before. Also, he wasn't playing safe or puposely playing a hook. Can you tell the difference? I think I can. But, for the sake of argument, the scenario I described in my post is incosequential. What's important is figuring out a way to handle rolls in general. Whether this guy was just setting his bait or someone else down the road is getting the same type of rolls, my question is how do you handle these situations psychologically. It's easy to say things like, "It's just the shot you have and deal with it." It's much tougher to deal with this situation and keep your cool. I have seen people do it and I admire that ability.

I guess that's what's great about this game, it's always giving you opportunities to work on something whether it's the skills of the game or just how to deal with different aspects of the game.

Cardinal_Syn
04-20-2003, 07:06 PM
i just laugh at the moment sometimes even laugh at the person(only to friends)....but sometimes i do get pissed....were only humans.

jjinfla
04-20-2003, 07:28 PM
Just consider it one of those nights. Go home and see if you did something to P/O the pool god (like mistreat your dog) and pray it doesn't happen again. The same thing happened to me saturday afternoon. Everytime this guy missed I was hooked. After a while it became comical. To top it off he makes an 8 ball and the CB was heading to the side rail where it would bounce off and end up on the short rail for a very tough shot on the 9 at the other end of the table. So what happened was the CB hit the point of the side pocket and bounces straight back to give him perfect position on the 9. And no, he was not intentionally playing the safes. Very frustrating. I wouldn't mind it so much if it was someone actually playing the safes but this was ridiculous. And of course there were a few one rail banks that became two rail banks. Jake

cardiac kid
04-20-2003, 08:51 PM
Hi Rickw,

We have a guy here in Rochester who is the "luckiest" person I've ever seen. Each trip to the table is usually accompanied by "Where's the nine ball?" Personally, I refuse to play him. I know I would crush him but, I've watched him blast at too many multi-ball combos on the nine and have them go in a pocket other than the one he is "aiming" at! The laugh, facial expressions and general demeaner are more than I care to tolerate for any lenghth of time. Did I mention the interesting position (or lack there of) he plays?

Rolls are part of the game. They will always happen whether or not you sacrifice a virgin to the pool god. Last month I lost 9 - 8 on the money line after scratching three consecutive racks on the break, in three different pockets. On my next break, I intentionally safety broke. The cue ball stopped in the center of the table and was promptly kicked into a side pocket by a ball rolling past. How is four break scratches in a row for bad rolls?

Rickw
04-20-2003, 08:53 PM
I did laugh on the outside but I was churning up on the inside! You hit it right on the head Jake. I've been playing for a long time now and we've all seen people get good rolls. Usually, though, those rolls will subside after a while or they might start rolling for you. I just can't remember a time when I saw someone consistenly getting the rolls this guy was getting for as long as he was getting them! A couple of days later, he was playing another B player and he wasn't getting any rolls at all. And, he wasn't playing good to boot. I really must have stepped in something bad that night.

I had a great match last Friday. The other guy was getting some rolls but I just kept my calm and played through it and won the match 9 to 4. I must be in good grace with the pool gods now! It really sucks to be in their disfavor.

Thanks for the advice and commiseration!

Rickw
04-20-2003, 09:10 PM
I'm real sorry to hear that, Cardiac. That sounds like a real nightmare!! Sometimes it just doesn't pay to get out of bed in the morning!! Anyone who has played this game for a while can relate to our stories. We have a guy where I live that sounds like the twin brother of the guy you're talking about! When the guy I know slops the 9, he'll laugh out loud and say loud enough for the people driving by on the street, "Gee, I'm so lucky!" He says it in a shrill voice that just grates on you worse than hearing someone scratching a chalkboard! I played this guy one time for $200 in a race to 11 and he beat me like 11 to 5 or something. It was a long time ago and everyone that watched kept shaking their heads in amazement. The guy flew at the 9 every chance he got and if he didn't make it, he wound up hooking me. There was absolutely no skill involved in this just in case you're wondering I-P because this guy was flying at the 9, okay. He was just getting the rolls. I ran the first rack and he ran the second, the difference between us is that I knew what pocket every ball was going into before it went in and he didn't. That's scary!

stick8
04-21-2003, 12:30 AM
Skill will prevel over luck always dont let it get to you, just take your licking an keep on ticking!!!!!! STICK

Bluewolf
04-21-2003, 04:49 AM
Gee. I never think of that. Perhaps it is a factor mostly in those with higher skill.

I lost to a guy thursday night. My somewhat experienced hubbie said that I played well and that I did not get the rolls.

I guess to me, if a safe did not quite work out, then my finess was off. Or if I missed a shot, or messed up on position, then that is something I need work on.

I guess I think that if I am beaten, then the other player played better that night or vice versa. No biggie. I can beat him next time. It was just a game and another experience.

Rolls? perhaps this is in the annals of expereinced players. I will say though that when I have beaten 'better' players, it was because I was able to gage their weaknesses, cause them to rattle with smart play etc.

I guess I just do not notice rolls but I play 8 ball. Maybe 9 ball is different.

Laura

Rickw
04-21-2003, 01:47 PM
Laura,

When a player shoots to make a shot and accidently misses the shot leaving the other player without a makeable, this is considered a roll. Conversely, when a player purposely misses a shot in order to hook his/her opponent, this is a good defensive shot. There ae hustlers out there that can make a hook look like a roll. Some people can tell the difference depending on the skill of the hustler and the experience and astuteness of their opponent. One of the earlier posts by 1-P suggested that the guy I was playing knew what he was doing. I might not have disagreed with him if I didn't know the player. Does this make sense to you?

Bluewolf
04-22-2003, 07:42 AM
Yes. Maybe I just do not notice and but now that you mention it, slop does go in from time to time.

Laura

Pop And Slop
04-22-2003, 03:18 PM
That's why my nick is Pop and Slop. My friends used to think I was so lucky.

Jay

weelie
04-23-2003, 12:37 AM
I have made the decision long time ago: there are no good rolls or bad rolls. When I play badly, I lose.. and I have to do something to improve. Rolls have nothing to do with it.

I have never lost because of luck. That's just how I see it. 100%.

Big Dave
04-23-2003, 06:19 AM
You've only got yourself to blame for your opponent "getting the rolls", it was you that let him get to the table so much of the time! Next time, play better and keep him off the table a bit more!

Rickw
04-23-2003, 10:21 AM
You are absolutely right Big Dave. After I posted this, I started thinking about it and came to the same conclusion. I posted it while I was still in that, "What the Hell is going on here?" mood. You know how it is don't you? This game can put you in a real state of flux sometimes!! I'm over it now and I definitely agree with you. I just hope the next time it happens, I'll be able to focus more, make the appropriate kick shot and keep the opponent off the table. If not, I'll focus more on my brew and less on my miserable situation.

Pop And Slop
04-23-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by weelie
I have made the decision long time ago: there are no good rolls or bad rolls. When I play badly, I lose.. and I have to do something to improve. Rolls have nothing to do with it.

I have never lost because of luck. That's just how I see it. 100%.

I guess you have never had your opponant go to shoot the 9 in the side and have is hit the nipple and shoot down the rail into the corner. I would call that losing by the other player being lucky.

Jay

jjinfla
04-23-2003, 03:04 PM
I think Weelie's point being that he maintains a positive attitude and does not dwell on unforseen circumstances to salve his ego. And besides, if you break and run out then your opponent can't get lucky. If you hook yourself then it is because you didn't execute the shot properly. Jake

Pop And Slop
04-23-2003, 03:12 PM
noone is perfect

Chucklez65
04-24-2003, 06:10 AM
Ya, what HE said!!!

:-)

Chuck

Bluewolf
04-24-2003, 09:55 AM
I am so inexpereinced in 9 ball, I count on screwing up the other player SO bad that I can get lucky on the 9. That is the only way I can win.

I think 8ball is harder because you have to sink more balls to win.

Laura

Chucklez65
04-24-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Bluewolf
I am so inexpereinced in 9 ball, I count on screwing up the other player SO bad that I can get lucky on the 9. That is the only way I can win.

I think 8ball is harder because you have to sink more balls to win.

Laura

There are really two schools of thought on this:

1) 9ball is easier to win because you only have to shoot one ball, the 9ball in the pocket to win. It can be lucked in or you can let the other person run out and miss on the last couple of balls and win.

2) 8ball is easier to win because there are so many more balls on the table to shoot at if you make a mistake in shape...or if you miss, your opponent has more balls to have to shoot at.

IMHO

I think that 8ball is the easier game for a players that are learning to play pool, because there are more balls to shoot at and when you mess up shape on a shot, you can make other choices.

That being said -

As a player gets better and learns how to control the table more and can judge shape better, then 9ball becomes the easier of the two games to play. 8ball, when played well, has a lot more strategy in it. You have to know when to 'go for the run' and when not to. This is true in 9ball too, but because both players are shooting at the same balls, it is easier to leave the other player poorly when you get out of shape. If you go for a runout in 8 ball, you have to know when to break out balls that can become trouble balls or when to leave them....and whether to make what looks to be an easily made ball or not. If you shoot all your balls off of the table and then have a trouble ball then all you have done is open the table up for your opponent to run out. Ill play almost anyone on the planet if after the break they take all of their balls off of the table and let me run out - so there is a strategy in 'when' to make a move and when 'not' to.

This is true of 9ball also..but in 9ball, when in doubt...you can just hit the balls at 35 mph and hope something goes in. Not true of 8ball.

Anywayz....thats MHO

Chuck

Bluewolf
04-24-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Chucklez65
That being said -

As a player gets better and learns how to control the table more and can judge shape better, then 9ball becomes the easier of the two games to play. 8ball, when played well, has a lot more strategy in it. You have to know when to 'go for the run' and when not to. This is true in 9ball too, but because both players are shooting at the same balls, it is easier to leave the other player poorly when you get out of shape. If you go for a runout in 8 ball, you have to know when to break out balls that can become trouble balls or when to leave them....and whether to make what looks to be an easily made ball or not.
Chuck [/B]

I think 8 ball is fun because I do like the strategy part. I intentionally safed an easily made ball because of shape on the next one. I would have shape on the next but to get a legal hit, I would have had to also break up their cluster and leave them good. So I chose to not take the shot and play safe.

Laura

weelie
04-25-2003, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by Pop And Slop
I guess you have never had your opponant go to shoot the 9 in the side and have is hit the nipple and shoot down the rail into the corner. I would call that losing by the other player being lucky.

Jay

Oh, many times. :D Mostly I remember this kind of shots happening when playing snooker though...

If I had played well, he would not be shooting the nine. And if I shoot well, I'll get another chance to win.

And I think luck is a factor in 9ball, to me it's part of the rules. The rules are made for luck to be a factor. So I never lost because of luck, because luck is part of the game. It's like if you say you lost because of luck in Backgammon or some dice game... I don't think so. Luck is there and it's your task to minimize it's value to the opponent.

I have won because of luck, as I know what I tried, and what happened was not it. But I have not lost because of luck, as what the opponent does is his task, and I don't know if he played this or that on purpose, it was his turn, he played to best of his ability... and so do I, and I play only my turn, not his.

I do watch the opponent play, but what I am thinking what I would do if I was him, and if he does something else, I think why he did it and is there something for me to learn there. When he plays, I'm not looking to beat him, I'm looking to beat him when I play! When I watch the opponent play, I exclude myself and my out of the game, trying to visualize whta I would do if I faced what the opponent is facing.

And, for example, when I scratched, it was not because of luck it was because I played carelessly, cannoning on to another ball, not taking care of the cue ball path as well I should have. Or then I took a deliberate risk. A risk will have it's downside, but you need to take some risk almost every time... you just try to maximize the payoff (net of risk).

Even if I lost due to coin toss and the other guy running out all to 9-0, I still don't think I lost due to luck. I lost because the guy played well, and the rules were set and agreed upon. The coin toss was a risk that I knew.

That's how I see it. It may seem like stubborness or something. But I see it like that. In competitive games that is.

weelie
04-25-2003, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by Chucklez65

As a player gets better and learns how to control the table more and can judge shape better, then 9ball becomes the easier of the two games to play. 8ball, when played well, has a lot more strategy in it.

I agree. Running several racks is a lot easier in 8ball, if the break is working. But 8 ball strategy is something I find difficult: intentional fouls, moving balls to better position while other balls to worse positions, playing position on two or more balls at the same time... you really have to think. Do I take the high or the low, do I run out, Do I change the run out order half way through...

In nine ball, pocket all in the predetermined order, or if it fails, snooker the opponent sometime during the runout. That's basically it.

I do love eightball, when it does not go all-defensive. But nobody here plays it. If you know how to play, you play nineball. blaah. It's a boring game.