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View Full Version : Neil-BIH/10ball. What should I have done?


3RAILKICK
09-26-2010, 09:10 PM
Surprisingly-I did complete the run.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FXIK4GBjr3HMWj4IUvl3JBKa@

I think I was fortunate. My plan worked, but I think there were easier ways to do it.

Thanks for any comments.

Note: 4 balls went into same pocket

Neil
09-26-2010, 09:41 PM
..............

spanky79
09-26-2010, 09:46 PM
you shot well all tournament

Thanks for kicking my ass, you took advantage of every chance you had.

Jimbojim
09-26-2010, 09:50 PM
Setting up for the 7 in the bottom side pocket is also a nice option and easier to achieve plus it gives you automatic position with just a slight draw.

But I would probably go around the table too to avoid any risk of kissing any balls I wouldn't want to.

Nick B
09-26-2010, 09:52 PM
http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FXIK4GBjr3HMWj4IUvl3JBKa3PJcb3kJcb3kWJv3kasq3kG qq@

Side Rail
7 in the side. Draw to almost straight on 8.

The rest is child's play. Poor shape on 7. No problem. Simple bank safe behind 10 and your probably in again with ball in hand.

The other way is just looking for trouble. Could I do it. Sure but why (Sorry Neil)?

Snapshot9
09-26-2010, 10:34 PM
Real easy to get the wrong angle with your shape on the 7, and often those side pocket shots are missed. I like Neil's solution better.

Luxury
09-26-2010, 10:43 PM
I would use Nick B's route except I'd play the seven in the corner. I'd bet a fortune that one pro that one pro would get out more times out of 100 that way than another pro going all the way around the table. Wish John Schmidt, Donny Mills and Chris Bartrum would respond to these more often.

zy112
09-26-2010, 10:51 PM
I'm with Nick, I like the 7 in the side. If the CB goes a little far, you got the corner. If it stops short, you got the bank safe. For me, this route would be a lot easier.

poolscholar
09-27-2010, 01:43 AM
Greater positional error in this case, assumes you can control the angle well

http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@3FXIK4GBjr3HMWj4IUvl3JBKa3PIvB3kIvB3kWJv3kasq4kQ Sf@

Masayoshi
09-27-2010, 02:01 AM
I like playing the 7 to the bottom left corner, if I get a funny angle on it, I can always freeze the cue ball on the 10.

jay helfert
09-27-2010, 02:55 AM
Greater positional error in this case, assumes you can control the angle well

http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@3FXIK4GBjr3HMWj4IUvl3JBKa3PIvB3kIvB3kWJv3kasq4kQ Sf@

This is the shot I saw first. Why not? It's far simpler to execute, with less that can go wrong.

Johnnyt
09-27-2010, 04:08 AM
Greater positional error in this case, assumes you can control the angle well

http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@3FXIK4GBjr3HMWj4IUvl3JBKa3PIvB3kIvB3kWJv3kasq4kQ Sf@

This is how I'm going. Johnnyt

Neil
09-27-2010, 04:20 AM
............

Ratta
09-27-2010, 05:35 AM
Hussa,

Poolschoolars way is for sure a good choice-
But....the way Nick B has choosen is also a good in my opinion- if you miss the perfect angle, you could still shoot the ball down in the cornerpocket instead of the side pocket, and also you can still play a wonderful safety from there.

Luxury
09-27-2010, 06:03 AM
Looking at it this morning, when I'm a little more awake, I like this one . Just have to watch that you don't scratch in the side.

I really disagree with this. Aside from the potential game losing scratch in the side, hitting the ten after shooting the six could cause a hook so you would really have to make sure you stayed well above it which is going to create an angel on the seven which is going to make an angle on the eight which will lead to having a huge issue of not being able to avoid getting hooked by the ten when shooting the nine. Or else you are going to have to end up shooting thin on the nine sending the cue ball up and down table and praying for an easy shot on the ten.

Bambu
09-27-2010, 06:10 AM
I was just about to say that!


Greater positional error in this case, assumes you can control the angle well

http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@3FXIK4GBjr3HMWj4IUvl3JBKa3PIvB3kIvB3kWJv3kasq4kQ Sf@

Aaron_S
09-27-2010, 06:43 AM
I definitely like the 1-rail approach here. The tangent line takes you pretty much where you want to be, and speed should be pretty easy to judge. With the 6 being so close to the rail, it will be hard to pick up the exact angle you want drawing 2-rails, and I actually think the side pocket is just as much in play (if not more so) on that shot. You're definitely going to pick up running spin off of that first rail, so coming in short, like at or above the side pocket, would be a concern for me. I might consider playing the 7 for the side or upper corner on buckets, but probably not on a tight table. Speed is touchy on that shot and a slight off-angle could make for a difficult shot.

Aaron

iusedtoberich
09-27-2010, 07:39 AM
I also like the 1 rail approach. The same safety is also there on the 7 if you end up with a very steep angle. Also, if you end up steep and still want to go offensive, the 4 railer is available to get you back in line for the 8. This is an easy 4 railer, because you will be close to the object ball.

My least favorite shot that was mentioned earlier if I understood the description correctly, was drawing back between the 8 and the 7 to shoot the 7 in the same pocket as the 6. This particular situation does not lend itself well to that shot. And even if executed, the chance of being on the wrong side of the 7 is better than being on the right side of it. If you end up on the wrong side of the 7, you are dead: No safety available, and no way to get back around the table (3 railer out of play due to ball positions).

I'm just a D player so take what I say as 1 cent! lol.

KoolKat9Lives
09-27-2010, 07:59 AM
I always look closely at the OP before reading on and "biasing" my opinion.

I saw and analyzed the 3 aforementioned options and decided on the one railer. To execute this all I have to do is have nice touch and not hit the 10 and not scratch. Jeez, if I can't manage that, I should don a wig and a skirt and take up gambling hopscotch at St Mary's High.

Even if you get a little steep on the 7, which makes you steep on the 8, you can get good position on the 9 by playing it above the 10. There's some margin for error on the simple 1 railer.

No brainer IMO. The 2 other (non-7 in-the-side) options have too much risk for getting below the 7, which is very undesirable.

Now, what did 3railkick do? I don't see kicking 3 rails as a good option. ;)

Black-Balled
09-27-2010, 08:07 AM
Gotta go with the 1 railer.

If you want another difficult out, then you can play to bank the 7 into the side and stick CB to 10. leaves a touchy shot for position on the 9, but since you passed up the easy shape on the 7 (to get on 8 too:)), you obviously do not want to do it the easy way.

Side pocket?! rarely to neVAR!

Bob Jewett
09-27-2010, 08:52 AM
... My plan worked, but I think there were easier ...
This would be another great shot for someone to record and bring to the next AZB gathering so we could let the proponents of each way see who got out more often. Lacking a volunteer, I guess that's not going to happen.

I'm surprised that no one has proposed the pattern that has the least cue ball movement.

Aaron_S
09-27-2010, 10:08 AM
I'm surprised that no one has proposed the pattern that has the least cue ball movement.

Wouldn't that be the stop shot on the 6 and cross-side bank on the 7 that Black-Balled mentioned?

Aaron

3RAILKICK
09-27-2010, 10:49 AM
Surprisingly-I did complete the run.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FXIK4GBjr3HMWj4IUvl3JBKa@

I think I was fortunate. My plan worked, but I think there were easier ways to do it.

Thanks for any comments.

Note: 4 balls went into same pocket


It was one of those rare days-where everything went.

Spanky-We both know that wasn't me shooting.

This is the pattern: Note: I didn't like 1 railing the 6-running into the 7 or 10, or scratching or going below the side- and maybe not be able to hold for the 8 and then the 9. I was willing to 2 rail the cb on the 6. It looked natural, and since I wanted to come off the 3rd rail some, the speed was enough to reposition the 7 or 10 enough to come up with a new plan if necessary if I ran into them.

When I got good on the 7-it was a decent pattern.(There was enough angle to 'stun' over to the left for the 8.)

Note: I used the 14 and 15 to illustrate subsequent cb's at the end of the run.

Please pardon the 'look what I did post'-this doesn't happen often-a plan that worked.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FXQO4GBjr3HMOk4IVEk3JBbc3NJjx4OLVP3PNTY4QSoR4RG aY3eBbc3ecAt3kNTY3kVtG3kbKL3kTxl4kcGN4kSwN4kSoQ4lS oR4lDfj4lGiY4mGaY3mJlj3mKAt4mSCk4mcOt4mLuM4mAdR3uB fO@

Thanks for the comments-there were easier routes suggested.

Take care

Bob Jewett
09-27-2010, 11:00 AM
Wouldn't that be the stop shot on the 6 and cross-side bank on the 7 that Black-Balled mentioned?

Aaron
Actually, I was thinking of one without a bank shot. The difference from previous suggestions is that the cue ball is placed on the top side of the six and goes one-cushion off the end rail for a shot to the side or far corner.

Black-Balled
09-27-2010, 11:16 AM
Actually, I was thinking of one without a bank shot. The difference from previous suggestions is that the cue ball is placed on the top side of the six and goes one-cushion off the end rail for a shot to the side or far corner.


We are all R) handed, Bob! :wink:

Bob Jewett
09-27-2010, 11:22 AM
We are all R) handed, Bob! :wink:
Yes, all intelligent, honest and trustworthy people are right-handed :grin-devilish:, but the shot shown is not hard for us to shoot even without a mechanical bridge.

GetMeThere
09-27-2010, 11:38 AM
I think the one rail method is obvious and (candidly) the only one that occurred to me. I would never shoot the Neil method--I'd find a way to screw it up. The OP method is one I didn't think of--but it seems to have a lot of risk of hitting the 7 or the 8.

dabarbr
09-27-2010, 11:42 AM
It was one of those rare days-where everything went.

Spanky-We both know that wasn't me shooting.

This is the pattern: Note: I didn't like 1 railing the 6-running into the 7 or 10, or scratching or going below the side- and maybe not be able to hold for the 8 and then the 9. I was willing to 2 rail the cb on the 6. It looked natural, and since I wanted to come off the 3rd rail some, the speed was enough to reposition the 7 or 10 enough to come up with a new plan if necessary if I ran into them.

When I got good on the 7-it was a decent pattern.(There was enough angle to 'stun' over to the left for the 8.)

Note: I used the 14 and 15 to illustrate subsequent cb's at the end of the run.

Please pardon the 'look what I did post'-this doesn't happen often-a plan that worked.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3FXQO4GBjr3HMOk4IVEk3JBbc3NJjx4OLVP3PNTY4QSoR4RG aY3eBbc3ecAt3kNTY3kVtG3kbKL3kTxl4kcGN4kSwN4kSoQ4lS oR4lDfj4lGiY4mGaY3mJlj3mKAt4mSCk4mcOt4mLuM4mAdR3uB fO@

Thanks for the comments-there were easier routes suggested.

Take care

With the path you took you should feel very fortunate that you were able to win that game. That avenue was available but the one railer is the more simple and higher percentage shot.

With the option that you picked winding up a bit short on the seven would have been a disaster and very difficult to get on the eight from there.

The correct shot would have been the one railer as other suggested. Granted that there is a bit of risk involved but the pros on this shot heavily out weight the cons especially with ball in hand.

Our game has a lot of pitfalls built into it and not everything is easy. If you lack confidence in shots like this then I would suggest that you set up a drill for yourself so that you can understand the shot and next time have the confidence in yourself to position whitey exactly where you want it.

Neils original shot is ok but getting the perfect position on the seven would be very difficult because the cue ball must hit the third rail before the side pocket.

3RAILKICK
09-27-2010, 08:16 PM
Thanks everyone for sharing your opinions. I shot the wrong shot (low %) and got away with it. That's not the right way to approach the game.

Take care