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View Full Version : An idea to save my back


Luxury
09-27-2010, 12:13 PM
I really want to play pool all my life and am hoping to keep good back health. I started standing up higher like Minnesota Fats to try to save my back. I figured I could at least do that on all the close easy shots but then I started trying it on longer harder shots and was surprised how well it worked. I've only practiced this way for an hour now so I wanted feedback before committing to relearning my "shot pictures" that I've memorised down low on the stick. Your thoughts?

Also i have a $5000 massage chair and a state of the art bed for my back but I'm also looking at hot tubs now. Does a hot tub make a big difference if I'm already getting shiatsu massage from the chair?

Thanks for any responses.

SCCues
09-27-2010, 12:46 PM
I really want to play pool all my life and am hoping to keep good back health. I started standing up higher like Minnesota Fats to try to save my back. I figured I could at least do that on all the close easy shots but then I started trying it on longer harder shots and was surprised how well it worked. I've only practiced this way for an hour now so I wanted feedback before committing to relearning my "shot pictures" that I've memorised down low on the stick. Your thoughts?

Also i have a $5000 massage chair and a state of the art bed for my back but I'm also looking at hot tubs now. Does a hot tub make a big difference if I'm already getting shiatsu massage from the chair?

Thanks for any responses.

It sounds like you are doing things that I wish i'd done when I was younger. I love to play pool, but due to back issues I don't get to play as much as i'd like to.

James

Scott Lee
09-27-2010, 01:06 PM
Luxury...Nothing wrong with standing up higher. Just make sure your cuestick remains level with the table (as level as reasonable for the shot). It's a myth that you have to get down low over the cuestick. It's more about perception and personal preference. Lots of players do what we call the 'midpoint head bob'...where the player stands up higher, to reconfirm or percieve the shot better, then drops back down to go into their shooting routine. Some players just like standing higher of all shots.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott Lee
09-27-2010, 01:14 PM
DoubleD...Oh sure, bring THAT up! :eek::grin:

Scott Lee ~ has a 'slight' problem with his BMI
www.poolknowledge.com

Exercising your back and staying at a good BMI will do more for you than any $5000 gimmick chair, hot tub or pool stance.

dld

allenjktx
09-27-2010, 02:21 PM
I don't know the specifics of your problems but I can tell you that I bought an Inversion Table from Teeter Hang Ups and it has saved me. It takes a little time to adjust too but once you do it is actually relaxing and has kept me off the table going on 5 years.

GetMeThere
09-27-2010, 02:26 PM
I have a simple and cheap "Swiss Ball," some people call them "Therapy Ball." They're inflated and can support your weight; they're about two feet in diameter. There are loads of videos on youtube with exercises.

It works like MAGIC for me anytime I have a sore back. In general, it has been proved that exercise is the BEST preventative for back pain and the BEST treatment for back pain. Weightlifting, yoga, pilates, all have excellent exercises for your back--but I've found the swiss ball the easiest and quickest way to get the effect I want.

Edit: The specific exercise I do, btw, is to sit on the ball and then rotate, and work back and forth, my hips. I do it with ACTIVE muscle movements, not just by rolling around the joints with no muscle input. I work both my abs and back that way--trying to separately and consciously work each muscle groups (even the sides of my back and sides of abs). Using slow, strong muscle contractions, you can actually build up a sweat you work so hard--just by sitting and rolling your butt around--again, because you're trying to actively contract the muscles to make the movements.

Roger Long
09-27-2010, 02:31 PM
Divorce usually works well, too.:wink:

cuesmith
09-27-2010, 02:46 PM
I have a simple and cheap "Swiss Ball," some people call them "Therapy Ball." They're inflated and can support your weight; they're about two feet in diameter. There are loads of videos on youtube with exercises.

It works like MAGIC for me anytime I have a sore back. In general, it has been proved that exercise is the BEST preventative for back pain and the BEST treatment for back pain. Weightlifting, yoga, pilates, all have excellent exercises for your back--but I've found the swiss ball the easiest and quickest way to get the effect I want.

Edit: The specific exercise I do, btw, is to sit on the ball and then rotate, and work back and forth, my hips. I do it with ACTIVE muscle movements, not just by rolling around the joints with no muscle input. I work both my abs and back that way--trying to separately and consciously work each muscle groups (even the sides of my back and sides of abs). Using slow, strong muscle contractions, you can actually build up a sweat you work so hard--just by sitting and rolling your butt around--again, because you're trying to actively contract the muscles to make the movements.

That depends on what is wrong with your back. I have severely deteriorated discs in my lower back. My physical therapist scolded me for playing pool. I'm not supposed to do any activities that involves forward bending as it causes nerves to pinch and I have pain like an electrical shock running down my right leg. What works for one person is not necessarily right for another.

Luxury
09-27-2010, 02:47 PM
Exercising your back and staying at a good BMI will do more for you than any $5000 gimmick chair, hot tub or pool stance.

dld

This is encouraging and inspiring. Though I need to know what BMI is and what back excercizes you recommend.

GetMeThere
09-27-2010, 02:53 PM
That depends on what is wrong with your back. I have severely deteriorated discs in my lower back. My physical therapist scolded me for playing pool. I'm not supposed to do any activities that involves forward bending as it causes nerves to pinch and I have pain like an electrical shock running down my right leg. What works for one person is not necessarily right for another.

That's right. All bets are off when talking about actual degenerative disease. But for backs with all the main components still in working order, proper and healthy back exercises are the VERY BEST THINGS you can do to keep your back healthy.

vasilios
09-27-2010, 03:03 PM
Walking around barefoot at every opportunity you get will help more than anything else.no socks ,shoes or slippers around the house.no flip flops,naked feet only.unprotected feet will heal a back quicker than anything.
your spine will thank you.

bill

allenjktx
09-27-2010, 03:10 PM
My back problems are actually degenerative discs, the worst is between L4 & L5. The Inversion Table stretches the lower back extremely well which allows some fluids to reenter the disc. I am an absolute beleiver in this therapy since it has truly worked for me. Be very careful with active back exercises instead of streching exercises, you may do more harm than good.

TATE
09-27-2010, 03:18 PM
I really want to play pool all my life and am hoping to keep good back health. I started standing up higher like Minnesota Fats to try to save my back. I figured I could at least do that on all the close easy shots but then I started trying it on longer harder shots and was surprised how well it worked. I've only practiced this way for an hour now so I wanted feedback before committing to relearning my "shot pictures" that I've memorised down low on the stick. Your thoughts?

Also i have a $5000 massage chair and a state of the art bed for my back but I'm also looking at hot tubs now. Does a hot tub make a big difference if I'm already getting shiatsu massage from the chair?

Thanks for any responses.

I've never had back problems from pool and I get down pretty low on my shots. To be accurate, I believe the sniper position is the best. I think the key is to keep most of the weight on the feet and to bend at the knees and hips.

I stand with a more open stance and get down by bending at the knees first - kind of like if you were sitting on the edge of a bar stool - then at the hips. This spreads the weight between your feet and is easy on the back. There is very little weight on my back and my spine is more or less straight. This is a balanced, athletic position.

I think the straight legged stance is hard on the back. Also, I think a forward head position view is the least accurate.

Standing up straight may be fine for easy shots, but I just can't see the long shots or thin cuts unless I get down and well back on the cue.

Chris

GetMeThere
09-27-2010, 03:30 PM
My back problems are actually degenerative discs, the worst is between L4 & L5. The Inversion Table stretches the lower back extremely well which allows some fluids to reenter the disc. I am an absolute beleiver in this therapy since it has truly worked for me. Be very careful with active back exercises instead of streching exercises, you may do more harm than good.

Sure, discs can expand a bit by inversion. But then, five minutes after you're standing they'd be back to where they were.

I am NOT recommending that anyone exacerbate injured or degenerated discs.*

But it remains true that numerous research efforts have shown that back problems that DO NOT involve degenerative disease are mostly CAUSED by muscle weakness/bad posture, and therefore those problems can be well ADDRESSED by proper exercise.



* People should realize that disc problems can produce a MEDICAL EMERGENCY if nerves become strongly compressed and stay that way. Anyone with serious back problems who suddenly notices incontinence, weakness and genital numbness should immediately consult a doctor, or strongly consider visiting an emergency room.

allenjktx
09-27-2010, 03:39 PM
Sure, discs can expand a bit by inversion. But then, five minutes after you're standing they'd be back to where they were.

I am NOT recommending that anyone exacerbate injured or degenerated discs.*

But it remains true that numerous research efforts have shown that back problems that DO NOT involve degenerative disease are mostly CAUSED by muscle weakness/bad posture, and therefore those problems can be well ADDRESSED by proper exercise.



* People should realize that disc problems can produce a MEDICAL EMERGENCY if nerves become strongly compressed and stay that way.
Anyone with serious back problems who suddenly notices incontinence, weakness and genital numbness should immediately consult a doctor, or strongly consider visiting an emergency room.

Not arguing about exercise to an otherwise healthy back, that is absolutely the best medicine. I am only relaying personal experiences with my problems and solutions. Unless I've missed something we still do not know the cause or reason for his discomfort. Sorry if it seemed as though I was being combative, absolutely not my intention.

Klopek
09-27-2010, 05:37 PM
0000000000

mr8ball
09-27-2010, 08:01 PM
I have had a bad back since 1985 and I have had 2 surgeries. They replaced a disk L 4 & L 5 put 2 plates and 6 screws in my back. I have been through it all. I saw a chiropractor from 85 to 97 and had to have my first surge. They trimmed the disk off the nerve but the Dr did not get the sack sealed and over the next few years all the fluid leaked out. I do have an inversion machine but I was told by my therapist not to use it because of the screws. The hot tub does help me but the best thing I have found so far is pool therapy. I also have a tinge unit that I use when it gets real bad. I am 5'8 at 165 lbs. I am not able to play very long anymore. Not trying to scare you or anything but you must try to stay active and in shape or it will get real bad. I have a lot of scar tissue that was built up after my first surge because the Dr to me to lay flat on my back for 6 weeks. The next Dr that did my 2nd surge told me it was the worse thing I could have done. Try to go to some pool therapy and the inversion machine. I wish you the best

iusedtoberich
09-27-2010, 08:40 PM
deleted post

Mowem down
09-27-2010, 09:22 PM
My poor back boo hoo hoo.. What a load off HorseSh*t.... All this guy does is sit around (at work, selling USED beds) playing pool on his Ipad, or plucking the strings on his Geeetar. If he had it any easier he wouldnt even get out of bed in the morning hed just wait till the pool room opened...

Take care of your back Ill tell you how, 1 lay off the fatties...:eek: and 2 bring your butt to work with me a few times a week. that will do 2 things I wont have to work so hard and can play more pool :grin: and 2 youll never feel your back again so you wont need to worry...:grin:

P.S. dont think I missed that thing about "a nine footer for my new house" That cost ya the 8 and this snivelling about your back cost ya the 7.. you best think hard about your reply that just might be the 6...LOL

TATE
09-27-2010, 09:30 PM
My poor back boo hoo hoo.. What a load off HorseSh*t.... All this guy does is sit around (at work, selling USED beds) playing pool on his Ipad, or plucking the strings on his Geeetar. If he had it any easier he wouldnt even get out of bed in the morning hed just wait till the pool room opened...

Take care of your back Ill tell you how, 1 lay off the fatties...:eek: and 2 bring your butt to work with me a few times a week. that will do 2 things I wont have to work so hard and can play more pool :grin: and 2 youll never feel your back again so you wont need to worry...:grin:

P.S. dont think I missed that thing about "a nine footer for my new house" That cost ya the 8 and this snivelling about your back cost ya the 7.. you best think hard about your reply that just might be the 6...LOL


Should anyone need an example of "tough love", look no further...

Chris

Ps. Well oK, maybe hardass love. Maybe forget the love part.

BRKNRUN
09-27-2010, 09:45 PM
IF this is muscle related...."sore back from bending over"...stretch your hamstrings.

Most people ignore/overlook the hamstrings thinking it is not back related. The hamstrings tie into your lower back....The more flexible your hammys are the less pull on your lower back.

There is one specific exercise that will help loosen and strech your hamstrings (and lower back)

Lay flat on your back and pull one knee up (with a bent leg) and support it right behind your knee....keeping your other leg flat on the floor....un-bend your leg to point it straight up in the air....you will probably NOT be able to go all the way up....lower it back down and then lift it again a bit higher this time...keep going from bent to straight for about 10 reps...as you get to the last few reps you may be able to point your leg almost straight up..

This exercise is designed to flex the front of your leg as you straighten it out. When the front of your leg is flexed the back (hamstring) will be relaxed...and you will be able to slowly stretch it out.

Repeat with the other leg by switching leg posittions...


EDIT: Here is a link http://www.spine-health.com/wellness/exercise/hamstring-stretching-exercises-sciatica-pain-relief

This is fairly commong knowledge in Golf......Since Pool is a repetative motion of getting into a stance and bending over a shot...There is some common ground.

terminal_288
09-28-2010, 12:06 AM
I would sugest on top of the many good ideas already posted, maybe go see a doctor, get a check up have a pro kick the tires so to speak. See if they (a doctor) could recomend a sports therapist to see to keep you in top working and pool playing order. Just my 2 cents

Rod
09-28-2010, 01:01 AM
IF this is muscle related...."sore back from bending over"...stretch your hamstrings.

Most people ignore/overlook the hamstrings thinking it is not back related. The hamstrings tie into your lower back....The more flexible your hammys are the less pull on your lower back.

There is one specific exercise that will help loosen and strech your hamstrings (and lower back)

Lay flat on your back and pull one knee up (with a bent leg) and support it right behind your knee....keeping your other leg flat on the floor....un-bend your leg to point it straight up in the air....you will probably NOT be able to go all the way up....lower it back down and then lift it again a bit higher this time...keep going from bent to straight for about 10 reps...as you get to the last few reps you may be able to point your leg almost straight up..

This exercise is designed to flex the front of your leg as you straighten it out. When the front of your leg is flexed the back (hamstring) will be relaxed...and you will be able to slowly stretch it out.

Repeat with the other leg by switching leg posittions...


EDIT: Here is a link http://www.spine-health.com/wellness/exercise/hamstring-stretching-exercises-sciatica-pain-relief

This is fairly commong knowledge in Golf......Since Pool is a repetative motion of getting into a stance and bending over a shot...There is some common ground.

This is with out a doubt the best cure for muscle related back problems. It costs you nothing other than a few minutes a day to vastly improve or eliminate back problems. Its like anything else in life you get out of it what you put into it. Or, just live with it.

Rod

McChen
09-28-2010, 01:57 AM
i'm always amazed when i see old videos and pics of players a generation or two ago and how they all shot in a very upright stance. they seemed to do pretty well with it. i couldn't make a ball myself shooting like that, though i guess if you practice anything long enough you'll adapt.

Luxury
09-28-2010, 03:19 AM
Well Mowem Down isn't completely off his rocker. Aside from the selling USED beds he was pretty spot on. I have a cush job and all but I play a ton of pool and at the old age of 35 I'm starting to feel it and need to repair and use preventive maintenance as well. The info in this thread I feel will do a ton to help me. Thanks a ton guys.

skip
09-28-2010, 03:52 AM
Great shoes an shoe inserts seem to help. :smile:

Black-Balled
09-28-2010, 07:10 AM
I really want to play pool all my life and am hoping to keep good back health.
Thanks for any responses.


It hurts me to say it, but you are going to need breast reduction surgery.

Take lotsa before pics coz you are a thing of beauty, Ms. FL. Post here.

Black-Balled
09-28-2010, 07:11 AM
Well Mowem Down isn't completely off his rocker. Aside from the selling USED beds he was pretty spot on. I have a cush job and all but I play a ton of pool and at the old age of 35 I'm starting to feel it and need to repair and use preventive maintenance as well. The info in this thread I feel will do a ton to help me. Thanks a ton guys.

You don't look 35 either.

Tbeaux
09-28-2010, 07:22 AM
Luxury from the vid you're a tall guy so here is an easy one. Make sure the playing surface is at 31" , on a GC that would make the top of the rail at 32 3/4". No sense bending any more than you have to.

Does the girl in your avatar have any back trouble??? :eek::smile:

Black-Balled
09-28-2010, 07:28 AM
Luxury from the vid you're a tall guy so here is an easy one. Make sure the playing surface is at 31" , on a GC that would make the top of the rail at 32 3/4". No sense bending any more than you have to.

Does the girl in your avatar have any back trouble??? :eek::smile:

Hmmmph. And I was going to profess my neverending love.:sorry:

tom mcgonagle
09-28-2010, 07:39 AM
Has anyone suggested you bend your legs more to come down lower on the shot. Your legs are much stronger than your back and were meant to be bent.

I squat to come down lower. It's a lot easier and I'm able to play longer with less pain.

______________________________________

http://tommcgonaglerioghtoncue.com

Mowem down
09-28-2010, 07:30 PM
Well Mowem Down isn't completely off his rocker. Aside from the selling USED beds he was pretty spot on. I have a cush job and all but I play a ton of pool and at the old age of 35 I'm starting to feel it and need to repair and use preventive maintenance as well. The info in this thread I feel will do a ton to help me. Thanks a ton guys.

"A ton " you say, well that might not be worth the 6 but its got to be good for the break... Between that and the 7 I say Im looking good....LOL...

The last time I talked to Earl this subject came up...Bend at the knees grasshopper thats one reason he plays the way he does becasue hes (kinda) tall and your legs are alot stronger then your back... If you talk the game with my old dog Jack he will stress (over and over and over):grin-square: abs, abs, abs are the key to good pool...

JB Cases
09-28-2010, 09:01 PM
Short term: good shoes. Birkenstocks are all I will wear when I have to stand/walk for a long time.

Long term: lose any belly fat you have - the extra weight pulls on your ribcage and stresses your spine - the weight also pulls your body forward so that standing up straight requires more effort on your lower back muscles. It's work but it's worth it. I lost 20 lbs and I feel much better despite a bulging disk. I still have another 15 or so lbs to go and that's the tough part because it will require dedicated exercise to reduce the belly fat instead of jsut a change in diet and walking each day.

If I remember right you were one of the people who was on my ass so hard when I complained that I didn't want to play a 10 ball match because my back was acting up. Perhaps now you understand it a little more. On the good days I feel pretty sporty and have little to no problem bending over the table. On the bad days it's excruciating like someone is jabbing me with needles when I bend over the table for any shot.

Stretching and losing weight are probably the two biggest things a person can do for themselves. Even if you have a permanent condition like I do it can be relieved immensely when your spine doesn't have to contend with excess weight and stress.

Hope you find relief.

Klopek
09-28-2010, 09:04 PM
0000000000

Mr. Wiggles
10-11-2010, 06:06 PM
Its easy especially if you have done it all your life. I sort of half stand up and have all my life. People notice and say things, but its not a problem. I think I can't get a good picture of my shot if I am down way low. Also, lots of guys as they get older just slowly start rising up, maybe they just can't get as low anymore. Speaking with some great, older fellows and they said yes it just started happening. I think there is a happy middle in there for you somewhere, just go gradually and don't let it define your style or game. Good Luck.