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View Full Version : Annual $$$ in the Pool industry?


Tom In Cincy
09-28-2010, 02:46 PM
Anyone have a clue?
It has to be more than a Million dollars right?

Could it be more than 100 Million dollars?

More than a Billion?

greyghost
09-28-2010, 03:55 PM
Anyone have a clue?
It has to be more than a Million dollars right?

Could it be more than 100 Million dollars?

More than a Billion?


I'm sure its more than 100million......billion? across the world? I dunno I'm sure its over a billion dollars when you add EVERYTHING up....

love to hear some real hard numbers tho......interesting topic.

cheapcues.com
09-28-2010, 04:12 PM
We talking about losses?

No just kidding. Interesting I saw a video the other day Andy Segal was on Good Morning America, and the host commented that pool is the 4th most popular sport in America. I wonder how they determined that?

Tom are you talking about total gross revenue- from retail sales, plus gross revenue at pool halls, or are you talking about net profits? Again just from retail or also from other operations related to pool?

Tom In Cincy
09-28-2010, 04:44 PM
TOTAL Gross REVENUE. World Wide?

How much do you think the Pool industry takes in on an annual basis?

Pool halls, table manufaturers, all pool related clothing and accessories?
Instructions?

League revenues? (250,000 players at $10 a year? + weekly dues?) that's just the apa.

Tournament prize funds? Weekly, monthly, yearly?

Bar Tables in bars at $1/game?

there is approximately 3400 pool rooms in the USA.

There are over 3000 pool rooms in Korea. And Korea has Billiard Academies in every major city.

If you start including Europe, Asia and the Middle east, there are lots of Billiard rooms with all types of tables and customers and industry suppliers.

Everywhere there is a demand for Tables, TIPS, Cues, balls and Cases.

I would guess there it is a $3 Billion PLUS a year industry.


We talking about losses?

No just kidding. Interesting I saw a video the other day Andy Segal was on Good Morning America, and the host commented that pool is the 4th most popular sport in America. I wonder how they determined that?

Tom are you talking about total gross revenue- from retail sales, plus gross revenue at pool halls, or are you talking about net profits? Again just from retail or also from other operations related to pool?

cheapcues.com
09-28-2010, 05:04 PM
I'd say US retail sales of products you're looking at 100 to 200 Mil. Probably multiply that by 5 for a worldwide figure of .5 to 1 Bil. If your figure of 3400 pool rooms in the US is correct you're probably looking at 200 Mil, again multiply by 5 or maybe even 10 for a worldwide figure 1 to 2 bil. That 3 bil figure sounds pretty good.

Masayoshi
09-28-2010, 05:11 PM
After a quick google search, I would say that world wide, It has to be greater than $10 billion when you consider that activities such as bowling have revenue of $3 billion in the US alone and pool is apparently more popular than bowling and similarly priced. Another example, golf, has $20 billion in the US alone. I think your average golfer probably spends more than your average pool player, but there are a lot more pool players from many estimates.

Masayoshi
09-28-2010, 05:19 PM
I'd say US retail sales of products you're looking at 100 to 200 Mil. Probably multiply that by 5 for a worldwide figure of .5 to 1 Bil. If your figure of 3400 pool rooms in the US is correct you're probably looking at 200 Mil, again multiply by 5 or maybe even 10 for a worldwide figure 1 to 2 bil. That 3 bil figure sounds pretty good.

3400 rooms have to clear way more than $200 million. At $200 million, the average revenue for a pool hall would be less than $60,000. Which would be rediculously low, many places probably pay more than that in rent.

smoooothstroke
09-28-2010, 05:24 PM
[QUOTE=cheapcues.com;2632300]We talking about losses?

No just kidding. Interesting I saw a video the other day Andy Segal was on Good Morning America, and the host commented that pool is the 4th most popular sport in America. I wonder how they determined that?

Likely because many people go to bars,most of witch have at least 1 pool table.

cheapcues.com
09-28-2010, 05:36 PM
3400 rooms have to clear way more than $200 million. At $200 million, the average revenue for a pool hall would be less than $60,000. Which would be rediculously low, many places probably pay more than that in rent.

I would think that 3400 figure would include any public establishment with at least one pool table. And you don't include food and beverage sales, lottery, etc. for the sake of this discussion.

cheapcues.com
09-28-2010, 05:40 PM
After a quick google search, I would say that world wide, It has to be greater than $10 billion when you consider that activities such as bowling have revenue of $3 billion in the US alone and pool is apparently more popular than bowling and similarly priced. Another example, golf, has $20 billion in the US alone. I think your average golfer probably spends more than your average pool player, but there are a lot more pool players from many estimates.

In our area bowling outpaces pool by a wide margin. And if golf is at least 20X pool. Based on those 2 numbers I'd say in the US pool is $1 bln. Making the worldwide $3 to $5 bln.

Scott Lee
09-28-2010, 06:00 PM
cheapcues.com...Those figures come from annual data compiled by the SGMA (Sporting Goods Marketing Association)...and they count every person who picks up a cue, even just once a year. Real numbers (avid players = people who play once a month or more) are very likely only 1/4 of the SGMA figure. Personally, I think it would be tough to assess accurate numbers on the pool industry. You've got manufacturer's numbers, retailer's numbers (which you'd have to subtract the manufacturer's numbers from), and then you've got user end numbers, from the poolroom owners, league operators, etc. Too many numbers.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Interesting I saw a video the other day Andy Segal was on Good Morning America, and the host commented that pool is the 4th most popular sport in America. I wonder how they determined that?

doitforthegame
09-28-2010, 06:03 PM
I would think that 3400 figure would include any public establishment with at least one pool table. And you don't include food and beverage sales, lottery, etc. for the sake of this discussion.

Where are those 3400 pool rooms? That is 68 a state. Mass. has no more than 10 now; NH maybe 5 or 6. Vermont? Can't think it is many. I think that 3400 was back maybe in 1990 when pool was really the "IN" sport.

Bob

Masayoshi
09-28-2010, 06:42 PM
Where are those 3400 pool rooms? That is 68 a state. Mass. has no more than 10 now; NH maybe 5 or 6. Vermont? Can't think it is many. I think that 3400 was back maybe in 1990 when pool was really the "IN" sport.

Bob

California has hundreds of pool rooms, most of them small places that you've never heard of and that cater to ethnic minorities. I would guess that 3400 rooms is just pool rooms. If you count bars with pool tables the figure has to be MUCH higher.

9ballrob
09-28-2010, 06:55 PM
Brunswick and Olhausen combined sold 75-100 million dollars a year of pool tables to their dealers in the late 1990s-early 2000s.

ironman
09-28-2010, 08:14 PM
cheapcues.com...Those figures come from annual data compiled by the SGMA (Sporting Goods Marketing Association)...and they count every person who picks up a cue, even just once a year. Real numbers (avid players = people who play once a month or more) are very likely only 1/4 of the SGMA figure. Personally, I think it would be tough to assess accurate numbers on the pool industry. You've got manufacturer's numbers, retailer's numbers (which you'd have to subtract the manufacturer's numbers from), and then you've got user end numbers, from the poolroom owners, league operators, etc. Too many numbers.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

in the end, what would be the point if we did know?

JB Cases
09-28-2010, 09:02 PM
Several years ago I saw a figure published somewhere that put pool at about $500,000,000 - 500 million in the USA.

Of course that was back when a billion dollars was money. Now it seems as if everything is a a minimum of 10 billion.

I'd say given that pool worldwide isn't that popular then 1 billion worldwide seems like a good number.

That is not counting the revenue from all the casual games played in bars but is counting all the tables sold which are in those bars.

That STUPID statistic of 30 million pool players in the USA making billiards 2cnd, 3rd, or now 4th to basketball, etc....is the DUMBEST metric I have ever seen. It has led more people to invent more gadgets in pool who are dreaming of getting just that 1/2 of 1% in sales.

I guess no one ever figured out that a Sports Marketing company would be intrested in skewing the polls on sports participation to reflect the highest numbers they can get away with witout outright lying. Esepcially when they are making great money selling booths at their annual convention.

The better surveys are the ones that Pool and Billard Magazine has done annually which poll real players on their habits.

One place to start gathering numbers would be the US Customs website or maybe it's the Department of State - one of them tracks the import figures year on year. That's something to use in seeing how big the industry is in one aspect.

Anyway if there is a pool on how big pool is I will put my entry in at 1 billion.

cheapcues.com
09-29-2010, 01:21 PM
in the end, what would be the point if we did know?

I guess Tom in Cincy would have to answer that- he's the one who asked.

cheapcues.com
09-29-2010, 01:24 PM
Brunswick and Olhausen combined sold 75-100 million dollars a year of pool tables to their dealers in the late 1990s-early 2000s.

I think that makes sense. I guessed retail sales 100 to 200 mil and I was assuming about 20% of that was tables. Given the way the table market has been the last few years of they did 75 to 100 during those days they are probably doing 20 to 30 mil now.

Black-Balled
09-29-2010, 01:44 PM
...That STUPID statistic of 30 million pool players in the USA making billiards 2cnd, 3rd, or now 4th to basketball, etc....is the DUMBEST metric I have ever seen. ...I guess no one ever figured out that a Sports Marketing company would be intrested in skewing the polls on sports participation to reflect the highest numbers they can get away with witout outright lying. Esepcially when they are making great money selling booths at their annual convention....

I would add only:
...That STUPID statistic of 30 million pool players in the USA making billiards 2cnd, 3rd, or now 4th to basketball, etc....is the DUMBEST metric I have ever seen. ...I guess no one ever figured out that a Sports Marketing company would be intrested in skewing the polls on sports participation to reflect the highest numbers they can get away with witout outright lying. Esepcially when they are making great money selling booths at their annual convention....

Tom In Cincy
09-29-2010, 01:46 PM
My question has only been answered with 'GUESSES'

If there is a resource with the answers that are FREE, I cannot find any via the internet.

But, for theoretical purposes, let us just grab the figure of $500,000,000 (that is 500 Million Dollars) annual revenue for all pocket billiard related industy. Personnally I think it is over a Billion Dollars, but I am also just guessing.


$500,000,000 and the profits are say $100,000,000. How many $25,000 added tournaments would/could be paid out of those profits? Lets just pick 8 events a year and then a championship.

.0025% isn't all that much to deduct from your annual profits to support the Professional Pool Players Tour (Men and Women). This may even be tax deductable.

Just an idea.

AtLarge
09-29-2010, 11:55 PM
... .0025% isn't all that much...

Nope, it's not much. .0025% of $100,000,000 is $2,500. :smile:

You probably meant .25%.