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TAP
10-21-2010, 07:38 AM
Without belittling ANYONE'S work, aside from collectors who apparently have all the money anyone would need, why do people pay $4k, $5k, $10k for cues, when there are comparable playing (and looking) cues on the market for 100's and, yes, THOUSANDS of dollars less. The quality is much the same, some actually have MORE ivory, and beautiful inlays and clearcoat finishes.

Without mentioning any names, and not to disparage the fact that this cue is beautiful, I happen to own a custom 1 of 1 cue that is much the same design, actually "fancier" with ebony, amboyna, and TONS of ivory. The cue being advertised is listed with a $5k price tag. I paid much less than $1k for mine, and would NOT sell it for $5K!

So, my question is: What makes the price of a cue? Is a cuemaker's signature worth an extra $3-$5K?? WHY??

All responses will be greatly welcomed.

Hunter
10-21-2010, 07:42 AM
'cuz pool players are stone cold crazy...:wink:

RRfireblade
10-21-2010, 07:49 AM
The quality is much the same, some actually have MORE ivory, and beautiful inlays and clearcoat finishes.



Thngs are not always what they seem on the surface.

hangemhigh
10-21-2010, 07:50 AM
Without mentioning any names, and not to disparage the fact that this cue is beautiful, I happen to own a custom 1 of 1 cue that is much the same design, actually "fancier" with ebony, amboyna, and TONS of ivory. The cue being advertised is listed with a $5k price tag. I paid much less than $1k for mine, and would NOT sell it for $5K!

Knock off designs are usually worth about 10% of the original designers work. Paying less than a tenth of the price of a cue that looks like a high end cue tells us all we need to know about the quality and workmanship. I agree, you will never sell a cheap copy for $5 K.

If you are happy, that's all that matters.

nancewayne
10-21-2010, 10:01 AM
Rarity, craftsmanship, beauty, and yes, condition... are the things a Collector looks for in anything collectible! The price is negotiable depending on supply and demand and/or buyer/seller motivation. Obviously, to be any kind of Collector, that person has to have some extra $$$ to invest (and risk if purchased for investment purposes). A high end collector cue is functional art~!



Without belittling ANYONE'S work, aside from collectors who apparently have all the money anyone would need, why do people pay $4k, $5k, $10k for cues, when there are comparable playing (and looking) cues on the market for 100's and, yes, THOUSANDS of dollars less. The quality is much the same, some actually have MORE ivory, and beautiful inlays and clearcoat finishes.

Without mentioning any names, and not to disparage the fact that this cue is beautiful, I happen to own a custom 1 of 1 cue that is much the same design, actually "fancier" with ebony, amboyna, and TONS of ivory. The cue being advertised is listed with a $5k price tag. I paid much less than $1k for mine, and would NOT sell it for $5K!

So, my question is: What makes the price of a cue? Is a cuemaker's signature worth an extra $3-$5K?? WHY??

All responses will be greatly welcomed.

TimKrazyMon
10-21-2010, 10:04 AM
Without belittling ANYONE'S work, aside from collectors who apparently have all the money anyone would need, why do people pay $4k, $5k, $10k for cues, when there are comparable playing (and looking) cues on the market for 100's and, yes, THOUSANDS of dollars less. The quality is much the same, some actually have MORE ivory, and beautiful inlays and clearcoat finishes.

Without mentioning any names, and not to disparage the fact that this cue is beautiful, I happen to own a custom 1 of 1 cue that is much the same design, actually "fancier" with ebony, amboyna, and TONS of ivory. The cue being advertised is listed with a $5k price tag. I paid much less than $1k for mine, and would NOT sell it for $5K!

So, my question is: What makes the price of a cue? Is a cuemaker's signature worth an extra $3-$5K?? WHY??

All responses will be greatly welcomed.

Take some hits with a high dollar cue, then see if you still need to ask the question.

Georgia Boy
10-21-2010, 10:29 AM
If people believe one makers cues are better than anothers they will pay a premium for that, it's a simple case of Capitalism at work.

I personally would not pay the sort of money some people pay for a cue, all I want is a cue that's well built and feels 'right' to me. If I want something to hang on the wall, all I need is for it to fit in and look how I want it to look. It makes no difference to me if it's $50 or $1,000 if I can afford it and it's right I will buy it. It's the same philosophy I will have when I win the lottery :rolleyes: I will not buy a Ferrari, I will buy an up to date Family car or Mid Size SUV and a Caterham 7, probably a CSR, they are much more fun than a Ferrari anyway!

For those who don't what a Caterham 7 is, go take a look at their website it's a real Sports Car.

http://www.uscaterham.com/

TimKrazyMon
10-21-2010, 10:39 AM
If people believe one makers cues are better than anothers they will pay a premium for that, it's a simple case of Capitalism at work.

I personally would not pay the sort of money some people pay for a cue, all I want is a cue that's well built and feels 'right' to me. If I want something to hang on the wall, all I need is for it to fit in and look how I want it to look. It makes no difference to me if it's $50 or $1,000 if I can afford it and it's right I will buy it. It's the same philosophy I will have when I win the lottery :rolleyes: I will not buy a Ferrari, I will buy an up to date Family car or Mid Size SUV and a Caterham 7, probably a CSR, they are much more fun than a Ferrari anyway!

For those who don't what a Caterham 7 is, go take a look at their website it's a real Sports Car.

http://www.uscaterham.com/

Screw the Caterham, go for the Bugatti.

Bigjohn
10-21-2010, 10:51 AM
Why buy a Rolls when there are plenty of nice Chevy's out there

rayjay
10-21-2010, 10:51 AM
Ever watch Antiques Roadshow? Same thing applies to lots of things, not just cues. Why would cues be excluded? They are functional art, and some are worth a lot more than others.
:p

Chi2dxa
10-21-2010, 11:16 AM
I remember when I was 8 or 9 years old I asked my Dad why he would spend almost $5.00 for 1 little half pint bottle of Whiskey when he could by a quart of Grape NEHI pop for .35 cents well now I know.:smile:

Georgia Boy
10-21-2010, 12:33 PM
Screw the Caterham, go for the Bugatti.


That's my point I wouldn't pay the money for the Bugatti you may well do, each to their own, guess I'm just too tight! Plus in Atlanta where and when would I be able to use that devastating Bugatti straight line speed, other than at 2.00am in the morning.

TimKrazyMon
10-21-2010, 01:11 PM
Heck, this is lottery winnings, shell for some time @ Atlanta Motor Speedway!:grin-square:

Ghosst
10-21-2010, 01:47 PM
Why?

1) My cue is unique. Actually, there's a close copy out there without all of the ivory, but none like mine exist.

2) I've played with $2000 cues and $20 cues that don't have anything close to the hit mine does.

3) The cue maker is my friend, so I support him and his family.

4) I can afford it.

tattoo
10-21-2010, 01:54 PM
Why buy a Rolls when there are plenty of nice Chevy's out there
because you canlol

jcrack_corn
10-21-2010, 01:57 PM
you guys would not BELIEVE the quality work I can print with a poster sized dye sublimation printer. Amazing colors, depth, and superior substrate material.

It puts the mona lisa to shame.

<insert tongue in cheek>

MidLifeCrisis
10-21-2010, 02:49 PM
Aside from the differences between production and custom, I'd say a lot of it boils down to reputation...and the years spent getting there...
Sure, a new cue maker can use the same materials from the same supplier...and build a very similar cue...but the cue maker that has years more experience is going to be able to charge more than his counterpart...just the way it is IMHO...

I've owned over the years...Muecci(first cue), Joss, and Schon cues...took a 15yr hiatus from pool...and when I got back into it...was/am much older and more financially stable...which allows greater spending on my hobbies. I have nothing against any cue or cue maker, but I'm more selective in what I buy now. ..Is it name?...NO...it's reputation, and blood sweat and tears...
:smile:

nksmfamjp
10-21-2010, 02:49 PM
I think the OP is talking about the phenomen where you can buy a nice 4pt player from a respected cuemaker for $600, $1000, $2000 or $5000? I could name names, but that is pointless.

In my opinion, the first two prices are usually split by experience. Everything higher is more rep, fame, etc based. Still as others have said, you are really shopping art at some point. Those high end cues have value which is hard to understand, but is related to how the maker can see inside the materials and know how the cue will finish out. There is a real skill in creating visual balance and timeless style. That combined with perfect execution keeps prices. Add to that, a cuemakers death or retirement and prices go crazy!

The key in my opinion is finding the maker who is still under my limit, but whose eye and execution are second to none. Your cue will increase in value!

greyghost
10-21-2010, 03:49 PM
I think the OP is talking about the phenomen where you can buy a nice 4pt player from a respected cuemaker for $600, $1000, $2000 or $5000? I could name names, but that is pointless.

In my opinion, the first two prices are usually split by experience. Everything higher is more rep, fame, etc based. Still as others have said, you are really shopping art at some point. Those high end cues have value which is hard to understand, but is related to how the maker can see inside the materials and know how the cue will finish out. There is a real skill in creating visual balance and timeless style. That combined with perfect execution keeps prices. Add to that, a cuemakers death or retirement and prices go crazy!

The key in my opinion is finding the maker who is still under my limit, but whose eye and execution are second to none. Your cue will increase in value!


great points.......remember its not a golf club set thats thousands of dollars.....a high end cue last longer than a lifetime.

Its exceptional art and a tool in one......very very unique combination that you don't see combined that often.

PaulieB
10-21-2010, 03:56 PM
I would never buy a collector cue that I couldn't actually play with but besides that anything goes as far as I'm concerned. Not that I even have a collection, I'm just getting started, but I just couldn't see buying what is basically a "tool" that can't be used.

Other than that, spending even 10s of thousands of dollars on a really sweet, great hitting, big name cue with lots of extras isn't entirely out of the realm of understanding for me. If you have the money, enjoy it by buying what you like, you can't take it with you!

It's just like the car analogy that has been mentioned. Sure, a Yugo will get you there (most times, heh), a Toyota Camry will get you there and be very efficient about it and do the job in a no frills way, but a Corvette or even a Rolls Royce will get you there in style with a big smile on your face if you are an enthusiast with the money to spend. I just draw the line as far as my own opinions are concerned about spending $4 million on a rusted out half a frame of the original Model A that Ford worked on as his prototype ... to me that's the same as a non playable collectible only cue.

TAP
10-21-2010, 07:49 PM
delete-duplicate

TAP
10-21-2010, 07:50 PM
Gentlemen....and the rest of us! Thank you all for your comments. All points well taken. My meager collection has nothing in it valued over $1350., and I play with all of them. I drool every time I see a Manzino or Zinzola (I hope I've got the names right), however, I must be realistic, knowing that there is no way that I could or ever would buy a $3k-$5k. Especially one that would sit on a shelf or in a glass case. I prefer to eat and have a roof over my head.

As I stated in my OP, I mean no disrespect to any of the cuemakers. They have truly earned their reputation, and knowing a few up and coming cue makers, I see them struggling to make ends meet. They too will eventually be well known in the pool world. My hats off to all of them.

Keep your comments coming. This is a very interesting subject!

RRfireblade
10-21-2010, 08:55 PM
It's just a perspective thing.

My "players" range in the 3-4K range and have no problem with that myself. I enjoy owning them and playing with them , it's a hobby I can afford so I do. Personally I couldn't care less what other poeple spend on thier gear.

But , just as you say you would never buy anything over your $1300 range is no different than some of the guys I play with that think your the one whose nuts cause thier $200 is as good as they think they'll ever need and they'd never spend any where close to a grand on cue!

:)

Perspective.

Gentlemen....and the rest of us! Thank you all for your comments. All points well taken. My meager collection has nothing in it valued over $1350., and I play with all of them. I drool every time I see a Manzino or Zinzola (I hope I've got the names right), however, I must be realistic, knowing that there is no way that I could or ever would buy a $3k-$5k. Especially one that would sit on a shelf or in a glass case. I prefer to eat and have a roof over my head.

As I stated in my OP, I mean no disrespect to any of the cuemakers. They have truly earned their reputation, and knowing a few up and coming cue makers, I see them struggling to make ends meet. They too will eventually be well known in the pool world. My hats off to all of them.

Keep your comments coming. This is a very interesting subject!

TAP
10-25-2010, 07:50 AM
Thanks for all the replys. Are there any pro players out there that might have a comment? Is there really a difference in play between, say an $800 cue and a $5k cue? Is it true that a Szamboti (excuse any spelling errors) was made for the "old school" tables with heavy felt and "slug" cue balls? Do they really play different on today's equipment?
Really good info coming in. Keep it up!

gsm1sw
10-25-2010, 07:49 PM
Is there really a difference in play between, say an $800 cue and a $5k cue?

It depends on who makes the cues. An $800 wheat cue will never play like a $5k Ginacue

Regardless of playability, everybody has something that they are willing to spend money on, some like cars, baseball cards, pool cues, strippers, action figures, etc. Other people will think it stupid to spend so much on those item, but it is a personal choice on what we feel our money is well spent on.

Hope that made sense.

Thunder Thighs
10-26-2010, 12:30 AM
So, my question is: What makes the price of a cue?


At the end of the day, it is all about a very basic concept of Economics. Supply and Demand.

Gmanpoke
10-26-2010, 08:23 AM
Why would anyone pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a stamp when they could just go down to the post office and buy a stamp for a few cents?

Obviously, highly collectable cues are different than a player from your local cue maker. There are many things that effect value in highly collectable cues. However, in my opinion, playability is formost whether its the very high end or a Wal-Mart special.

Now, playability or how a cue fills is at best highly subjective. This last weekend, I was at Chester's (pool hall) and was playing with my Joss (first cue I ever purchased). That night I bought a Black Boar RS2 from one of the locals. While I like my Joss and I will never sell it, the feel and playability is nowhere near the Black Boar, in my opinion.

I've owned several custom cues from many different cue makers and I can tell you there is a lot of differences in craftsmanship, fit and finish, and playability. And, of course rarity plays a big part in value. Until you develop the eye and even more importantly the appreciation for the subtle details, I'm not sure you will understand why people pay 10's of thousands for a pool cue.

Respectfully,

Steven

Fatboy
10-26-2010, 08:56 AM
its hard to find a cue that costs $500 or less that will feel better than most $2,000-$3,000 cues. It is possible. I borrowed a orange Viking one time from a guy it was worth $80 at the time a Gus back then $1500 and the Viking played for me as good as a gus, but only that Viking. There are awalys gonna be low price cues that play great, I have cues that cost $15,000-$20,000 that suck but again its the exception to the rule.

Its not the signature, its the engeneering that goes into the cue and wood selection, tollerances and the experience of the player. A banger cant tell a good from a bad cue,.

But your right if you look around long enough you can find a $300 cue that plays good as anything, it just will take longer.

Fatboy
10-26-2010, 09:02 AM
Thanks for all the replys. Are there any pro players out there that might have a comment? Is there really a difference in play between, say an $800 cue and a $5k cue? Is it true that a Szamboti (excuse any spelling errors) was made for the "old school" tables with heavy felt and "slug" cue balls? Do they really play different on today's equipment?
Really good info coming in. Keep it up!


your right, Szams play good on todays equipment, Bushkas IMO dont play to good on the fast cloth. the cues that were made for the old school equipment play better on old school equipment. My daily player is designed for todays equipment, with a heavy CB it dosent have enough back bone. However Ihave a friend who plays with a Joss(Stroud) he bought new in 74 and he can play on any equipment with it, but he is one hell of a player. I cant make a ball with his cue. He plays me 10/6 one pocket and is stealing, we play 9 ball I get the 7 and usually like it(he hates 9ball-my best game). point is if your a gifted player it really dont matter. I believe the middle of the road players like me are more equipment sensitive than JA, or solid A players.

Big Perm
10-26-2010, 09:13 AM
Without belittling ANYONE'S work, aside from collectors who apparently have all the money anyone would need, why do people pay $4k, $5k, $10k for cues, when there are comparable playing (and looking) cues on the market for 100's and, yes, THOUSANDS of dollars less. The quality is much the same, some actually have MORE ivory, and beautiful inlays and clearcoat finishes.

Without mentioning any names, and not to disparage the fact that this cue is beautiful, I happen to own a custom 1 of 1 cue that is much the same design, actually "fancier" with ebony, amboyna, and TONS of ivory. The cue being advertised is listed with a $5k price tag. I paid much less than $1k for mine, and would NOT sell it for $5K!

So, my question is: What makes the price of a cue? Is a cuemaker's signature worth an extra $3-$5K?? WHY??

All responses will be greatly welcomed.

Why buy a car for $100-300k, when you can get a car with the exact same performance, safety ratings, and options for just over $30k.....or work boots for $250 when you can get a solid product for $80.....or eat a sushi dinner for $100 bucks when you and the wife can eat pizza for $10.....it's simple....choice....that, and because people can and/or want to...

Cues can be that expensive because they are old and collectible, because they were produced by a high end maker, because they have ton's of inlays, supply and demand, or simply that maker is hot right now....

You spent under $1k for your awesome cue.....no doubt somebody on this forum has a Muecci they bought used for $50 that looks nice to them and they think you are an idiot for spending anything over $100.....it's opinion based on your experience and values...

mnb
10-26-2010, 09:32 AM
What makes the price of a cue?Reputation (perceived value). Or if they are the "flavor-of-the month" cuemaker on AZB.

Is a cuemaker's signature worth an extra $3-$5K??You'll only know for sure when the time comes to sell the cue. Caveat emptor.

You don't have to spend big money to find a great playing cue, so long as you don't get locked into the mindset that big name cuemakers cues all play good and all other cues cannot possibly play as good.

Many people get too wrapped up in buying a "name".

I've seen tens of thousands won with cues most people on this forum wouldn't even spit at.

ChicagoRJ
10-27-2010, 04:42 PM
Remember, that same $5K cue hits the same as the $1K sneaky pete from the same cue maker. The $4k extra is the labor involved in designing the cue, installing all the inlays, as well as buying exotic woods and curing them. The inlay themselves are costly...ivory, silver, etc. etc.

It is also piece of art that I admire. I don't care if anyone else likes my cue or my car, I buy what I like and what I can afford. And in most cases the value will go up, not down. Picked up my Spain 33 years ago, and don't regret the "big dollars" I spent back then...$100.......

Again, like buying a car with hubcaps, no power windows and a 4 cyl engine....you could spend more to get the chrome rims, power everything and a V8,,but the car still takes you from point A to point B...But some like finer things and some don't... everybody has a weakness for stuff..i'm just glad mine is billiards and cars...because drugs and hookers are just too expensive!!!!

elvicash
10-27-2010, 05:17 PM
Dee Adkins just won the Brickyard this weekend. He was playing with a $20 or $30 cue it had tape on the butt almost to the joint. His kids had drawn on it. I bet that cue hit good cause i watched him play lights out with it. The feild was pretty strong and I think Dee went undefeated. Dee is a a heck of an indian who can play with any bow, this game is definitely about the indian however, when the indian wants a fancy bow there are plenty of choices available.

So what is up with the cost of a high end cue first the high end makers use good I mean real good materials. They are picky to the extreme and they do not cut corners. The best ones inlay with no glue lines, hand cut out the corners so they are very sharp. There points all line up, this means they maintain control of the center line throughout the entire series of events to build that cue. Etc and etc. This is the first part of a high dollar cue, the next step is not overloading the market with excess product. So more and more people want it and they cannot get it, so they offer more money and the price goes up. Supply and demand.

greyghost
10-28-2010, 02:21 AM
b/c cue making is an art form......art is not free


you base a cues price off of tangibles alone, just playability......customs are one of a kind works from an artist that paints with wood......

why's a picasso worth tens of thousands and your stick figures aint worth a penny?

B/c he gained his peers and the publics respect for his art....so they pay for it.

Thats like saying why would anyone buy an original 1964 shelby cobra instead of just buying the new mustang GT, or a ferrari that runs for 300k instead of an 65K$ viper......NO CONTEST NOT THE SAME CATEGORY

Its run of the mill compared to custom tailored.

Why do you spend $150 on some Nikes instead of the $10 sneakers at wally world..........

-Grey Ghost-

JE54
10-28-2010, 03:15 AM
For those who use the high end cues, do you take them to bars to play or just pool halls ?

greyghost
10-28-2010, 03:20 AM
For those who use the high end cues, do you take them to bars to play or just pool halls ?

No I don't take my highend cues to bars or even not so great pool halls.....they go where I'm sure they will be safe, if its questionable then they go no where near the place.

In a bar some goof is liable to walk up and fall an break your cue or something.....in pool halls the patrons usually have a little more act right in them.

I have a nice straight older brunswick cue that I use in those places.

-Grey Ghost-

jay helfert
10-28-2010, 04:30 AM
Without belittling ANYONE'S work, aside from collectors who apparently have all the money anyone would need, why do people pay $4k, $5k, $10k for cues, when there are comparable playing (and looking) cues on the market for 100's and, yes, THOUSANDS of dollars less. The quality is much the same, some actually have MORE ivory, and beautiful inlays and clearcoat finishes.

Without mentioning any names, and not to disparage the fact that this cue is beautiful, I happen to own a custom 1 of 1 cue that is much the same design, actually "fancier" with ebony, amboyna, and TONS of ivory. The cue being advertised is listed with a $5k price tag. I paid much less than $1k for mine, and would NOT sell it for $5K!

So, my question is: What makes the price of a cue? Is a cuemaker's signature worth an extra $3-$5K?? WHY??

All responses will be greatly welcomed.

This is like asking why people pay millions for a work of art, when equally beautiful paintings may sell for only hundreds or a few thousand. Is it just because the artist is dead? Of course that may have something to do with the current value of Szambotis and Balabushkas.

Slim Limpy
10-28-2010, 08:16 AM
**********

Gmanpoke
10-28-2010, 08:20 AM
For those who use the high end cues, do you take them to bars to play or just pool halls ?

I play with everyone of my cues. I may not play with everyone every day, but they all get played. And, I've played with everyone of my cue in bars and pool halls. Now, I don't own a $5,000 cue, yet. I honestly don't know if I would play with a $5,000 cue at a bar, but I would definitly play with the cue. I would not buy a cue I wouldn't or couldn't play with. In my opinion, cues were designed and built to be played. This make custom pool cue a unique type of art. I believe a piece of art was create to be enjoyed, and I can't think of any better way to enjoy a fine pool cue than to play with it.

Steven

skeptic
10-28-2010, 10:44 AM
I play with a custom cue that is as plain and simple looking as they get. The maker will not make any two completely identical cues so it qualifies as 1 of 1, but at around $500 including a normal shaft and a predator shaft it's far from really expensive. This guy sells cues up to the few thousand dollar range. Same shooting quality, but much more detailed work, much more labor involved, different inlays (I actually have no inlays at all). He thoroughly tests every cue and if something is off or he just doesn't like the feel of how it plays he doesn't sell it. He does have options for materials, joint types, and obviously shafts, but after selecting all that the difference between one of his $500 cues (which he is making fewer and fewer of) and one of his $3000 cues is entirely "artwork" differences.

Thunder Thighs
10-29-2010, 07:07 AM
But your right if you look around long enough you can find a $300 cue that plays good as anything, it just will take longer.

I found one of those last year. It plays phenomenally well (for me). The hit of the cue is worth ten times what I paid for it. But since no one will buy it at that price, I'm going to keep it for a VERY long time. :grin-square: