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View Full Version : Earl's comments about fans and the game.


inside_english
10-21-2010, 12:21 PM
Earl was just in the break room checking the charts for his next match. Someone paid him a compliment about his win over Chris Futrell (11-9) and that's when he started complaining about the breaking.

He was not at all happy that he was breaking them as hard as he could while the other guy was "practically throwing his wallet at the rack."

He then turned and looked at the mini-crowd of fans that were standing there and told us we are ruining the game because we are not complaining enough to tournament directors about enforcing breaking rules, and it is really up to us to do that.

He stated we should be getting on the Internet and saying something about this. He said the hard break is what made nine ball the game it is today and he does not think it is right that people are soft-breaking.

As a side note I have witnessed quite a few soft breaks in other matches so far where three balls do not pass the side pocket.

Earl's passion for an elevated quality of play is undeniable.

TimKrazyMon
10-21-2010, 12:23 PM
Earl obviously hasn't had his joint today. Anyone care to help a brotha out?

Mt. Cheverest
10-21-2010, 12:26 PM
I didn't think the Open enforced 3 balls past the side...although that could have changed this year I know for a fact it wasn't in years past.

javi2
10-21-2010, 12:28 PM
Earl always keeps things interesting for sure.....man, wish I was there! The Open sounds like it's just heating up!

inside_english
10-21-2010, 12:34 PM
Earl always keeps things interesting for sure.....man, wish I was there! The Open sounds like it's just heating up!
It is. These are all money-rounds now.
Plus it's Thursday, so more fans are showing up.

Hopefully Q-Master will be better from here on out.

Joe_Jaguar
10-21-2010, 12:39 PM
Earl was just in the break room checking the charts for his next match. Someone paid him a compliment about his win over Chris Futrell (11-9) and that's when he started complaining about the breaking.

He was not at all happy that he was breaking them as hard as he could while the other guy was "practically throwing his wallet at the rack."

He then turned and looked at the mini-crowd of fans that were standing there and told us we are ruining the game because we are not complaining enough to tournament directors about enforcing breaking rules, and it is really up to us to do that.

He stated we should be getting on the Internet and saying something about this. He said the hard break is what made nine ball the game it is today and he does not think it is right that people are soft-breaking.

As a side note I have witnessed quite a few soft breaks in other matches so far where three balls do not pass the side pocket.

Earl's passion for an elevated quality of play is undeniable.


How exactly does hard breaking relate to an elevated quality of play?

stljohnny
10-21-2010, 12:40 PM
I've been watching all the day matches so far, and there has been a lot of "soft" or "cut" breaks... but the generally 3 balls pass the side, and if there's only 2, that's because the wing-ball or head-ball dropped in a pocket. I'll see if I can spot some illegal breaks, but none of the commentators have called it out yet... there was once where someone asked if it was legal, but the other one noticed the balls broke the plane and then bounced back.

beerpressure
10-21-2010, 12:41 PM
Earl should register here and argue with that guy talking about hard breaks = slop

Would love to see that.

Neil
10-21-2010, 12:47 PM
...............

Marie's husband
10-21-2010, 12:59 PM
Now I have not actually seen any of the US Open except the live scoring so I dont know what is actually happening on the breaks, but here is the rule of the US Open websited for breaking.

No soft Breaks
Velocity is key to determining a proper break. Players must break the balls with proper speed and it will not be a foul if three balls do not pass the headstring. Players must make an honest attempt to break the balls. A foul will not be called if a player breaks with velocity.

The rule above states velocity and speed but without a means of measurement. So, if the rule said you had to hit the cue ball at least XX mph and there was a ref with an app that gauges the speed to verify, that may work in the long run. It may be a good idea if the promoter could get the Phone company or the App company to sponsor it which may cover the cost of Refs and phones? Just a thought.

Celtic
10-21-2010, 01:11 PM
How exactly does hard breaking relate to an elevated quality of play?

As opposed to soft break/pattern racking? Hard breaking is more random in its results, especially with regards to table layout.

If people are "not" pattern racking and soft breaking to the point that they are running out almost the same table over and over and over again then the shots become more variable and it demands an elevated level of play to excel.

I have seen pros playing rack their own that pattern rack and used controlled soft breaks run 9 racks in a row and in those 9 racks virtually every single ball went into the exact same pocket in every single game.

If you don't see a problem with that then I don't really know what to say.

KMRUNOUT
10-21-2010, 01:12 PM
That rule MIGHT be O.K. for tournaments where you have new cloth. Other than that, it's stupid. I've seen many tables where you are lucky to get 3 balls up table. They are just too slow, or the racks aren't good enough.

Most people are going to want to play the same way the pros do rule wise, so you then have this rule in the pool rooms too. It doesn't work most of the time in a lot of rooms.

As far as softbreak vs. hard, they are just different styles. Earl is used to one style, and doesn't like another style being maybe better than his. That doesn't make him right in this matter.

I agree. I think the soft break is a particular technique that is the right tool for certain situations. However, I also know where Earl is coming from. There is a certain excitement about a huge break to start the game. It is great to watch for fans too, especially the more casual fans. Imagine that all golf course holes were shortened by 100 yards and they removed woods from the game (the clubs, not the guy lol). The first thing that attracted me to golf was the ability to blast a ball 250 yards...taking that away would diminish the game in my estimation. I guess maybe Earl is feeling something like this. I think both sides are valid...and in my opinion it takes a LOT more skill to be able to break hard with control than to break soft. Not saying there isn't skill involved in breaking soft, there definitely is...its just easier to learn how to do it from a physical standpoint.

And I shudder to think about the tables that are so slow you can't get 3 balls up table :eek:. I hope for your sake it is just terrible racking and not cloth that is so slow!

In any case, my observations on this matter...

KMRUNOUT

Tim-n-NM
10-21-2010, 01:18 PM
As opposed to soft break/pattern racking? Hard breaking is more random in its results, especially with regards to table layout.

If people are "not" pattern racking and soft breaking to the point that they are running out almost the same table over and over and over again then the shots become more variable and it demands an elevated level of play to excel.

I have seen pros playing rack their own that pattern rack and used controlled soft breaks run 9 racks in a row and in those 9 racks virtually every single ball went into the exact same pocket in every single game.

If you don't see a problem with that then I don't really know what to say.



This is exactly how i feel.
9ball aint what it used to be!!

Neil
10-21-2010, 01:19 PM
................

Tony_in_MD
10-21-2010, 01:27 PM
As I was ten feet away from the table I can tell you all this. Earl broke hard three times and did not make a ball. At the end of the match he broke softer with control and was able to string racks together to win the set.

Guess he adapted to what the table would allow.

inside_english
10-21-2010, 04:35 PM
How exactly does hard breaking relate to an elevated quality of play?
I suppose in Earl's mind breaking the balls as hard as possible is the very essence of "pure" or "true" nine ball.

Danny Harriman
10-30-2010, 12:29 PM
I don't have so much of a problem with the alternate breaks as I do watching the corner ball fly in on a soft break. The answer from my end would be to play 10 ball on a ten' table, this would improve the quality of play. Watching the corner ball float in like deer in a spotlight will probably be what they continue to do, the soft break playing 9 ball is a constant. The corner ball is pocketed on the break at the top level 90% under rack your own conditions playing 9 ball of course (same with the Sardo rack.) I apolagize to Lou Sardo for being so critical about his rack, I am just tired of 9 ball being the game in which we hold such high standards. Are Americans really this stupid? At least Earl is not being so politically correct and voicing his concerns about the soft break problem today in the 9 ball. I am going to ask Berry Behrman what he would think about an alternate option which is to replace the 9 ball with Ten ball maybe even on the 10' table, this would play favor to the snooker players but also they would actually have to work on their opening break instead of the redundant trick shot soft break of today's 9 ball.

I encourage anyone who is interested (pro or not) to write a letter as I will to Berry Behrman in hopes that he would consider the Ten ball as an option for this great event that attracts so many loyal fans and players every year - but the soft break problem is only beginning playing 9 ball I'm afraid. Anyone who thinks they can make a soft break work playing ten ball needs to bring a bunch of $ to MO, that way they can show me how wrong I am, ohh by the way real pool is not rack your own rack in my opinion.

real bartram
10-30-2010, 12:46 PM
I agree. I think the soft break is a particular technique that is the right tool for certain situations. However, I also know where Earl is coming from. There is a certain excitement about a huge break to start the game. It is great to watch for fans too, especially the more casual fans. Imagine that all golf course holes were shortened by 100 yards and they removed woods from the game (the clubs, not the guy lol). The first thing that attracted me to golf was the ability to blast a ball 250 yards...taking that away would diminish the game in my estimation. I guess maybe Earl is feeling something like this. I think both sides are valid...and in my opinion it takes a LOT more skill to be able to break hard with control than to break soft. Not saying there isn't skill involved in breaking soft, there definitely is...its just easier to learn how to do it from a physical standpoint.

And I shudder to think about the tables that are so slow you can't get 3 balls up table :eek:. I hope for your sake it is just terrible racking and not cloth that is so slow!

In any case, my observations on this matter...

KMRUNOUT

9 ball is like golf on a short easy track.
10 ball is a lil harder to break soft.

JesseAllred
10-30-2010, 01:26 PM
I don't have so much of a problem with the alternate breaks as I do watching the corner ball fly in on a soft break. The answer from my end would be to play 10 ball on a ten' table, this would improve the quality of play. Watching the corner ball float in like deer in a spotlight will probably be what they continue to do, the soft break playing 9 ball is a constant. The corner ball is pocketed on the break at the top level 90% under rack your own conditions playing 9 ball of course (same with the Sardo rack.) I apolagize to Lou Sardo for being so critical about his rack, I am just tired of 9 ball being the game in which we hold such high standards. Are Americans really this stupid? At least Earl is not being so politically correct and voicing his concerns about the soft break problem today in the 9 ball. I am going to ask Berry Behrman what he would think about an alternate option which is to replace the 9 ball with Ten ball maybe even on the 10' table, this would play favor to the snooker players but also they would actually have to work on their opening break instead of the redundant trick shot soft break of today's 9 ball.

I encourage anyone who is interested (pro or not) to write a letter as I will to Berry Behrman in hopes that he would consider the Ten ball as an option for this great event that attracts so many loyal fans and players every year - but the soft break problem is only beginning playing 9 ball I'm afraid. Anyone who thinks they can make a soft break work playing ten ball needs to bring a bunch of $ to MO, that way they can show me how wrong I am, ohh by the way real pool is not rack your own rack in my opinion.

I thought about why doesn't he change it to 10 ball also at first BUT it is the US open NINE ball tournament. The tradition loses its value if the game were changed considerably. Adding another ball changes the essence of the game, small rule changes are ok, but not that big a change. And I'm not arguing for nineball, I don't play it. When the local players here match up it's always straight pool or one pocket. Even though the game has become flawed because of the evolution of racking and breaking I believe they have to keep the game the same until the game of nineball dies out altogether.

jay helfert
10-30-2010, 01:53 PM
I don't have so much of a problem with the alternate breaks as I do watching the corner ball fly in on a soft break. The answer from my end would be to play 10 ball on a ten' table, this would improve the quality of play. Watching the corner ball float in like deer in a spotlight will probably be what they continue to do, the soft break playing 9 ball is a constant. The corner ball is pocketed on the break at the top level 90% under rack your own conditions playing 9 ball of course (same with the Sardo rack.) I apolagize to Lou Sardo for being so critical about his rack, I am just tired of 9 ball being the game in which we hold such high standards. Are Americans really this stupid? At least Earl is not being so politically correct and voicing his concerns about the soft break problem today in the 9 ball. I am going to ask Berry Behrman what he would think about an alternate option which is to replace the 9 ball with Ten ball maybe even on the 10' table, this would play favor to the snooker players but also they would actually have to work on their opening break instead of the redundant trick shot soft break of today's 9 ball.

I encourage anyone who is interested (pro or not) to write a letter as I will to Berry Behrman in hopes that he would consider the Ten ball as an option for this great event that attracts so many loyal fans and players every year - but the soft break problem is only beginning playing 9 ball I'm afraid. Anyone who thinks they can make a soft break work playing ten ball needs to bring a bunch of $ to MO, that way they can show me how wrong I am, ohh by the way real pool is not rack your own rack in my opinion.


Thanks for your comments Danny. I always like hearing from you. I have a question for you. What about racking 9-Ball with the nine ball on the spot? In other words move the rack up a few inches. The corner ball now hits above the corner pocket. They have done this successfully in several Matchroom events.

iusedtoberich
10-30-2010, 03:10 PM
I don't see anything at all wrong with a soft break. The official rule has always been 4 numbered balls must hit a rail. This is so someone doesn't bunt the rack and try to get you on 3 fouls off the break. The rule about the number of balls past the side pocket all started when Corey spent YEARS perfecting breaking and racking. Corey created an offensive weapon with the soft break.

Players complained because they didn't know how to do the same.

Reading a rack is a SKILL
Racking tight is a SKILL (see if a D player can rack tight)
Breaking softly is a SKILL
Knowing 20 different break techniques, to include soft breaking, is a SKILL
Knowing how to adjust the break to match table conditions is a SKILL

Why are so many people complaining about taking this highly skillful part of the game away, and making it so you have to slam the balls?

chipperd
10-30-2010, 11:17 PM
How about racking the nine on the spot, and breaking out of the box??? That should eliminate any problems.

Danny Harriman
12-12-2010, 02:54 PM
Racking the 9 on the spot is still a problem as now the one in the side becomes the wing ball once we understand a little about the rack. I worked hard at learning how to break hard and park whitey, I promise it takes more skill and is more appealing to the fans to see an explosive break. We have learned through the yrs. that the softer we hit the nine ball rack the easier it is to make the corner ball. Ten ball is still my answer to the wing ball problem of todays 9 ball.

manwon
12-12-2010, 04:17 PM
Earl obviously hasn't had his joint today. Anyone care to help a brotha out?



Come on, that shit really isn't necessary, Earl is making a valid point. When it comes to knowledge of the game and weakness within it's current rules Earl is as qualified as anyone to make the statement he made.

JIMO

peteypooldude
12-12-2010, 04:35 PM
Ol Earl, People love him or hate him. He is my favorite player, I does not
matter to me what he says to who. He PAYS for his remarks and always has

poolplayer2093
12-12-2010, 05:17 PM
the guy's a cry baby. that's all there is to it. no matter what it'll always be someone else's fault in his mind.

cuesmith
12-12-2010, 05:18 PM
Racking the 9 on the spot is still a problem as now the one in the side becomes the wing ball once we understand a little about the rack. I worked hard at learning how to break hard and park whitey, I promise it takes more skill and is more appealing to the fans to see an explosive break. We have learned through the yrs. that the softer we hit the nine ball rack the easier it is to make the corner ball. Ten ball is still my answer to the wing ball problem of todays 9 ball.

I understand what you're saying, but they already have another tournament called the US Open 10 Ball which would make it hard to do as you say. Barry has been having the tournament for around 30 years but you can't tell the other promoter to change the name of his tournament because they want to change the game in Barry's tournament to 10 ball or expect Barry to give up the tradition he's worked so hard at for so long. That's just not feasible. I think they could come up with a break format that does not give a "wingball" situation either by moving the spot and/or using a break box. For that matter they could require the breaker to break from the head spot which would change things IMHO. But I don't think the game should be changed at the US Open Nine Ball Tournament to accommodate this situation and 10 Ft tables is really out of the question. Players have to practice before hand. Poolrooms are struggling enough these days, they can't be expected to change over to 10 ft tables just to accommodate tournament play. It would make it just that much tougher for the pool rooms to stay afloat! That's just not realistic! Any pool room that still has a 10 ft table I'll bet it's the least used table in the poolroom.

peteypooldude
12-12-2010, 05:26 PM
the guy's a cry baby. that's all there is to it. no matter what it'll always be someone else's fault in his mind.

And you are? :rotflmao1::killingme::killingme:

irock
12-12-2010, 05:41 PM
10 Ball is definately the answer. I say 9 Ball amateur events and 10 Ball Professional events.

book collector
12-12-2010, 07:37 PM
I agree. I think the soft break is a particular technique that is the right tool for certain situations. However, I also know where Earl is coming from. There is a certain excitement about a huge break to start the game. It is great to watch for fans too, especially the more casual fans. Imagine that all golf course holes were shortened by 100 yards and they removed woods from the game (the clubs, not the guy lol). The first thing that attracted me to golf was the ability to blast a ball 250 yards...taking that away would diminish the game in my estimation. I guess maybe Earl is feeling something like this. I think both sides are valid...and in my opinion it takes a LOT more skill to be able to break hard with control than to break soft. Not saying there isn't skill involved in breaking soft, there definitely is...its just easier to learn how to do it from a physical standpoint.

And I shudder to think about the tables that are so slow you can't get 3 balls up table :eek:. I hope for your sake it is just terrible racking and not cloth that is so slow!

In any case, my observations on this matter...

KMRUNOUT

I remember a tournament last year and Van Boening didn't get 3 past the side several games. I think they should be able to break however they want . If Corey is willing to spend hours figuring out an edge breaking then they just need to practice also. It would heighten the game even more imo.

TheBook
12-12-2010, 08:02 PM
Earl has always been a fan of a hard break. I seen him at a tournament getting ready for a match. He asked the person that he was scheduled to play if he planned on breaking hard. The guy said he did and Earl shook his hand and said he would do the same. Made a few comments about the soft break and then started talking to the crowd.

Earl just wants good pool even if it doesn't benefit him. :winknudge:

JB Cases
12-12-2010, 08:52 PM
Earl is always like this. If you say one thing to him then he will ignore what you said and launch into a rant about what he thinks is wrong with the game. He definitely has firm opinions on that. And who is to say that he isn't right? If the game required a person to break above a certain MPH then theoretically the biggest breakers would have an advantage.

But it doesn't. Don't blame the fans for the way the game is. Are they supposed to boo people who don't break hard? Should they also boo people who duck instead of taking a difficult shot?

Earl just lives in the past where people didn't know any better and everyone thought that breaking hard was the only way to play. In 1986 at Jamacia Joe's poolroom one of the housemen, Biker Johnny, taught me how to soft break. He was ahead of the curve on the reasoning. His reasoning was that it's better to control the break and if you can make a ball and keep control of the table then why not.

Years later Corey Duell brought the soft break to the professional game and big breaking guys like Earl couldn't stand it.

It is what it is. No one ever said that breaking hard is how nine ball is supposed to be played. People just did it because it seemed to be more effective. And perhaps it was when nine ball was played on the slow nap non-worsted cloth. But with the modern game played on slick cloth (which Earl also hates), the soft break is effective.

Why make players suffer just because some people want some aesthicly pleasing? In tennis a player can serve underhanded and just lob the ball into the opponent's court. There is no rule that says that they MUST hit the ball as hard as they can. They do hit the ball hard because that's more effective than simply lobbing the serve.

Let the pros break how they want to break. Make them play ten ball instead of nine ball. Problem solved, no more soft breaking.

JB Cases
12-12-2010, 10:47 PM
I don't see anything at all wrong with a soft break. The official rule has always been 4 numbered balls must hit a rail. This is so someone doesn't bunt the rack and try to get you on 3 fouls off the break. The rule about the number of balls past the side pocket all started when Corey spent YEARS perfecting breaking and racking. Corey created an offensive weapon with the soft break.

Players complained because they didn't know how to do the same.

Reading a rack is a SKILL
Racking tight is a SKILL (see if a D player can rack tight)
Breaking softly is a SKILL
Knowing 20 different break techniques, to include soft breaking, is a SKILL
Knowing how to adjust the break to match table conditions is a SKILL

Why are so many people complaining about taking this highly skillful part of the game away, and making it so you have to slam the balls?

Actually the rule was not always that four balls had to hit a rail. That rule and rules like it which say four balls have to go past the side pockets were put in effect to try and enforce a hard break.

Otherwise I agree with everything you have said.

jrackman
12-13-2010, 12:28 AM
Well I'm sure a lot of people forget when Buddy, Alan Hopkins Nick V.got upset when J. Archer perfected his break and was making the 1 ball up corner or leaving a easy shot for it and running out. Buddy told me that they needed to change it because you couldn't beat J.A. that way. well they put him in the so called kitchen, slow him down but he found a way to beat all the girly breakers with a mans break.Corey stoled A. Fisher's break and made it work for him..point is play straight pool or one pocket if you want to break like a ......... Oh and for you guys out there, MAN UP!, if you can't break more then 10 mph. play with Barbie dolls...jmo

JB Cases
12-13-2010, 01:45 AM
Well I'm sure a lot of people forget when Buddy, Alan Hopkins Nick V.got upset when J. Archer perfected his break and was making the 1 ball up corner or leaving a easy shot for it and running out. Buddy told me that they needed to change it because you couldn't beat J.A. that way. well they put him in the so called kitchen, slow him down but he found a way to beat all the girly breakers with a mans break.Corey stoled A. Fisher's break and made it work for him..point is play straight pool or one pocket if you want to break like a ......... Oh and for you guys out there, MAN UP!, if you can't break more then 10 mph. play with Barbie dolls...jmo

That's quite funny. I don't remember everyone upset about Johnny's break. The Taiwanese and the Chinese however know how to break hard and make the one in the side on purpose very often.

However here is a video where my horse loses against another player's girly break, the breaker makes five balls on the break and runs out - I think everyone would love to have this girly break - I wish I did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmqWPXg1dcc

youngstownkid
12-30-2010, 07:16 AM
tell me how radical is this:

what if there were x number of designated spots that each player had to break from. if the race was 7, have 7 different spots ranging from the side to the center to the other side. Have the referee place the cue ball. This wouldn't totally prevent soft breaking, but would simply encourage/allow (maybe force) the players to increase their repetoire of break shots.

there are varying methods of breaking, it's something we could embrace. idk, just a thought. go ahead and let me have it guys, lol.

Lance Link
12-30-2010, 07:50 AM
Youngstownkid,

That's not a completely 'out of whack' thought...

In a race to 9, maybe the breaker gets to choose the last two break positions ? Or thier opponent chooses the last two for them ?

A race to 13 ? 1 thru 7, then backwards down to 1 ?

It will be interesting to see what others have to say...

Mike Templeton
12-30-2010, 08:29 AM
tell me how radical is this:

what if there were x number of designated spots that each player had to break from. if the race was 7, have 7 different spots ranging from the side to the center to the other side. Have the referee place the cue ball. This wouldn't totally prevent soft breaking, but would simply encourage/allow (maybe force) the players to increase their repetoire of break shots.

there are varying methods of breaking, it's something we could embrace. idk, just a thought. go ahead and let me have it guys, lol.

I've heard crazier ideas. Only problem for me would be that if I get in the zone or really concentrating in a match, I would probably inadvertently break from the same spot (or not the correct spot) by mistake. Each match would almost need a referee for only the purpose of being sure players broke from the correct position each game.

Mike

Black-Balled
12-30-2010, 08:44 AM
I've heard crazier ideas. Only problem for me would be that if I get in the zone or really concentrating in a match, I would probably inadvertently break from the same spot (or not the correct spot) by mistake. Each match would almost need a referee for only the purpose of being sure players broke from the correct position each game.

Mike

Agreed- youngstown's idea is fine in theory, but I am not smart enough to conform.

jay helfert
12-30-2010, 08:47 AM
Earl, "Pool is a beautiful game played by ugly people!"

Banks
12-30-2010, 11:50 AM
Jasmin's an exception to that rule, Jay. ;)

Did anybody else notice that the 9 in her break just floated slowly down to the end rail? Slug rack or no, that was still a pretty nice set up. :thumbup: