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Bankin
10-25-2010, 05:08 PM
Hi all,

First of all I would like to say what a great forum this is. I have learned some valuable information in the few months since I have stumbled upon it.

I was wondering what the break n run percentage was in the US Open.
Any help would be appreciated.

I think it would be an interesting gauge on how someone's game stacks up against an average open player.

Cheers

The Renfro
10-25-2010, 08:47 PM
Need to be more specific... as in AFTER they switched to a referee racking or while they were racking their own.... Were lots of racks being ran off the break all week.. Just not many in the last 4 matches to many a person and players dismay.... Frost stuck a 6 pack on Lofty and Mika stuck one on Klatt... Both during rack your own... Think last year 4 might have been the high on the TV table by Earl but I could be off since I have slept since then....

nksmfamjp
10-25-2010, 09:11 PM
I would be plenty happy with an overall break and run percentage. It would be fun to see some comparison over the years, also. I think we would see this number going down, but I'm not sure. It would be fun to see, if you know where this kind of stat is posted.

AtLarge
10-26-2010, 12:46 AM
... I was wondering what the break n run percentage was in the US Open. ...

I'd be surprised if anyone was keeping statistics on this for all the matches played. I can give you numbers from some of the matches that were streamed by Accu-Stats.

Saturday matches:

Appleton vs. Deuel: 8 B&R out of 28 games;
Deuel vs. Immonen: 4 of 14;
Appleton vs. Immonen: 5 of 20;
Total for Saturday Accu-Stats matches: 17 of 62 = 27%.


Last four Friday matches:

Deuel vs. Klatt: 5 of 12;
Appleton vs. Alcaide: 6 of 19;
Immonen vs. Klatt: 13 of 15 (WOW!);
Appleton vs. Deuel: 5 of 19;
Total for last 4 Friday Accu-Stats matches: 29 of 65 = 45%.


Total for all seven of these matches: 46 of 127 = 36%. [The Immonen/Klatt result kind of skews the Friday and total numbers. Without that single match, the other six matches resulted in 33 of 112 = 29%.]

ironman
10-26-2010, 04:00 AM
I'd be surprised if anyone was keeping statistics on this for all the matches played. I can give you numbers from some of the matches that were streamed by Accu-Stats.

Saturday matches:

Appleton vs. Deuel: 8 B&R out of 28 games;
Deuel vs. Immonen: 4 of 14;
Appleton vs. Immonen: 5 of 20;
Total for Saturday Accu-Stats matches: 17 of 62 = 27%.


Last four Friday matches:

Deuel vs. Klatt: 5 of 12;
Appleton vs. Alcaide: 6 of 19;
Immonen vs. Klatt: 13 of 15 (WOW!);
Appleton vs. Deuel: 5 of 18;
Total for last 4 Friday Accu-Stats matches: 29 of 64 = 45%.


Total for all seven of these matches: 46 of 127 = 36%. [The Immonen/Klatt result kind of skews the Friday and total numbers. Without that single match, the other six matches resulted in 33 of 111 = 30%.]

I am surprised the numbers are this high. I mean honestly with these Boys Club rules why would anyone ever shoot at a tough shot.
They claim one shot was introduced to speed the game for TV?? Well, TV is gone and likely gone forever. Why not go back to two shot and make it a fun and challenging game again.

Cameron Smith
10-26-2010, 06:51 AM
I am surprised the numbers are this high. I mean honestly with these Boys Club rules why would anyone ever shoot at a tough shot.
They claim one shot was introduced to speed the game for TV?? Well, TV is gone and likely gone forever. Why not go back to two shot and make it a fun and challenging game again.

I think if you did an average for the entire tourney, the stats would be lower. These guys represent the players who were performing at their best, so naturally they'd be playing fairly strong.

Jaden
10-26-2010, 07:54 AM
One out of three break n runs is about right for top players...

But that isn't a really good test of the best players.

Hell in the tournament I played in last night I averaged one in three bnrs, but when I played Louis Ulrich in my last match, I was outclassed. Now mind you it was a race to three, so there's a chance I could've come back if I got a good run in a longer set, but he played perfectly and only had one break n run...

Top play cannot be measured by Breank n Runs...

Hell my buddy Chip Klein is a stats whore and years ago had compiled a bunch of stats on the pros and he said that only 47% of the games are WON by the breaker in top play. His argument was that the break is actually not a big spot to give up at all. Of course that's not withstanding things like pattern racking rack your own by mechanics just in general random racks..

I think that BNR percentage is a poor choice for weighing talent and ability. Hell even playing the ghost is a poor choice since it eliminates safety play and true CB control which is the biggest difference between really good players and top players.


Jaden

Fatboy
10-26-2010, 08:46 AM
I would be plenty happy with an overall break and run percentage. It would be fun to see some comparison over the years, also. I think we would see this number going down, but I'm not sure. It would be fun to see, if you know where this kind of stat is posted.


the % is lower now than in years past, smaller pockets. the faster cloth has helped increase the BNR%, but the smaller pockets has had a bigger impact and lowered the % slightly. <---------this is my observation in general of pro pool, I remeber at the bicycle club abd reno tournemnts when we had fast cloth and big pockets-6 packs were not uncommon. Over 6 was tough cause a ball might roll funny or get froze.


Now having said that, I believe the players all play better now days, but the big packages arnt there because of the equipment changes not the level of play.

Bankin
10-26-2010, 09:59 AM
Thanks for all the reply's.

I was just looking for an overall bnr % for all games played in the tournament. I thought the sample size would be big enough to get an idea on how well someone would stack up against a random draw. Now of course the world beaters would be at a high percentage, but if all games were included it would give a reasonable number for someone to stack up against.

For example (and I am just pulling numbers out of the air) if it is 15%, and I test my own % by playing 100 games and come up with a number similar, maybe I would feel I wouldn't be dead money and would have a chance to cash.

I know it doesn't account for safety play, but I thought it would be interesting for offensive ability.

Jaden
10-26-2010, 10:21 AM
Thanks for all the reply's.

I was just looking for an overall bnr % for all games played in the tournament. I thought the sample size would be big enough to get an idea on how well someone would stack up against a random draw. Now of course the world beaters would be at a high percentage, but if all games were included it would give a reasonable number for someone to stack up against.

For example (and I am just pulling numbers out of the air) if it is 15%, and I test my own % by playing 100 games and come up with a number similar, maybe I would feel I wouldn't be dead money and would have a chance to cash.

I know it doesn't account for safety play, but I thought it would be interesting for offensive ability.


You could be 30% for break n runs and STILL not have achance to cash. BNR % doesn't take into consideration safety and shot choice.

Most improtantly it doesn't take into consideration whitey control, (and I'm not talking about black panther membership).

Like last night in the tourney I played at. While it's short races, (race to 3), Everyone I played I ran out every time I had an open shot except one game.

I lost to Louis Ulrich 3-0. Louis only had 1 break n run, or thirty percent. I had the same percentage of BNR's throughout the night.

He played safe when he knew he wasn't going to run out and my kicking wasn't good enough last night in the race to three.

If you can't kick safe, jump AND have a 30% bnr percentage, you aren't even money for a tourney like the open.

Jaden

ceebee
10-26-2010, 12:48 PM
Here's a good test of one's ability to run racks. And here's a chance to see how well a good break shot can assist you in your play.

Break up the rack. Take ball in hand & see how many racks you can run out of 10, 20, 50, >> tries.

Breaking & running racks is very gratifying & is actually a mind set. If a player isn't used to running racks, the pressure builds as the object balls dwindle down & the string is broken.

Corey Duel said after the Open, “It all came down to the breaks.”