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View Full Version : The only way to play 10 Ball


the420trooper
10-26-2010, 02:16 PM
These are the rules under which I prefer to play rotation games, and I think they're the most fair for everyone:

-Winner breaks, rack your own

-10 ball must be the last ball on the table. If pocketed early on a combo or on the break, 11 (or 10, if you have drop pockets), ball is spotted, and shooter continues play as they lie

-10 ball must be called, but for any other ball, slop is OK

Not too complicated, and every time I've played under these rules, the better player on that day almost always wins.

I think these rules would transfer well to a 9 footer, and I think it's the best way to remove some of the more luck-related aspects of the game, without changing it TOO drastically.

What do you guys think?

TimKrazyMon
10-26-2010, 02:21 PM
These are the rules under which I prefer to play rotation games, and I think they're the most fair for everyone:

-Winner breaks

-10 ball must be the last ball on the table. If pocketed early on a combo or on the break, 11 (or 10, if you have drop pockets), ball is spotted, and shooter continues play as they lie

-10 ball must be called, but for any other ball, slop is OK

Not too complicated, and every time I've played under these rules, the better player on that day almost always wins.

I think these rules would transfer well to a 9 footer, and I think it's the best way to remove some of the more luck-related aspects of the game, without changing it TOO drastically.

What do you guys think?


No slop, period. Call everything.

the420trooper
10-26-2010, 02:26 PM
No slop, period. Call everything.

OK, but that leads to having to call safe as well...which follows that if a person calls a ball, misses, and gets safe, the incoming player must have the option to take the shot or pass it back.

This is the ideal way to play, but many players don't like the rules to be so complex...

I think my idea is acceptable to the vast majority of players.

I forgot to include in my OP that all games should be rack your own.

pulldapin
10-26-2010, 02:48 PM
How about calling a difficult shot, it goes and you also pull off the built in safety. If the shot doesn't go, shouldn't you be rewarded for the safe. I like what you are getting at and beleive you are almost on point. This might be something to consider. I agree with call shot as well. You want to eliminate as much luck as possible, yes. However for the better player to emerge the difficult shots with built in safes should be considered. Great post. Carl

the420trooper
10-26-2010, 03:08 PM
How about calling a difficult shot, it goes and you also pull off the built in safety. If the shot doesn't go, shouldn't you be rewarded for the safe. I like what you are getting at and beleive you are almost on point. This might be something to consider. I agree with call shot as well. You want to eliminate as much luck as possible, yes. However for the better player to emerge the difficult shots with built in safes should be considered. Great post. Carl

I agree, that's why I added the stipulation that only the 10 ball needs to be called. I like two way shots, they're a part of the game that I wouldn't want to see taken away.

Basically, my rule just won't allow you to win by sh*tting in the money ball...If someone misses the 3, caroms off the 6 and 8, hits the 10, and the 10 ball slides in the corner, he still has to run the rest of the balls to win.

I really hate when games end in one shot.

Neil
10-26-2010, 03:18 PM
..............

Pushout
10-26-2010, 03:40 PM
No slop, period. Call everything.

I would probably agree with this but just what do you mean call everything? You mean call all balls,right?

Pushout
10-26-2010, 03:42 PM
OK, but that leads to having to call safe as well...which follows that if a person calls a ball, misses, and gets safe, the incoming player must have the option to take the shot or pass it back.

This is the ideal way to play, but many players don't like the rules to be so complex...

I think my idea is acceptable to the vast majority of players.

I forgot to include in my OP that all games should be rack your own.

I like this. Does away with the so-called two-way shot. If you can't make the shot, don't call it, call safe instead.
No, you shouldn't be rewarded for missing, that means "IF" you miss, I pay for your inability to make the ball.

pulldapin
10-26-2010, 03:51 PM
I like this. Does away with the so-called two-way shot. If you can't make the shot, don't call it, call safe instead.
No, you shouldn't be rewarded for missing, that means "IF" you miss, I pay for your inability to make the ball.

No you would pay for my ability to attemped a difficult shot (make it) while also getting shape and leaving you safe. Would I not be the better shooter.

Pushout
10-26-2010, 04:07 PM
No you would pay for my ability to attemped a difficult shot (make it) while also getting shape and leaving you safe. Would I not be the better shooter.

Sorry, I don't understand the way you worded this. You shouldn't be allowed to play it both ways, you should either shoot the shot to make it OR call a safe. I can accept calling the safe, I don't accept that if you can't make the shot I have to pay for your inability. This is the major thing wrong with 9 Ball for the last thirty years.

sfleinen
10-26-2010, 04:07 PM
No you would pay for my ability to attemped a difficult shot (make it) while also getting shape and leaving you safe. Would I not be the better shooter.

I disagree. 10-ball is a game of "commit" -- either commit to the shot, or commit to the safety. This topic of 10-ball has been discussed many times, but the Open-level tours (by virtue of the pre-tourney player meetings) always pick the WPA+ rules. (The "+" usually refers to the rule additions introduced by the Seminole Tribe / Tony Robles Predator Tour -- ball pocketed on a called safe gives option to the incoming player, and missed/flubbed shot on a called shot gives option to the incoming player.)

The lower-level players seem to want the option (the warm-and-fuzzy, actually) of "two-way shots," but the higher-level players do not. Either commit to the shot, or commit to the safety -- don't walk the fence, or go half-*ssed about it. Put your 100% commitment to the shot, or to the safety, and STAND BY your decision, fair or foul.

If you don't agree to these rules, don't play 10-ball. Play 9-ball instead.

-Sean

Zivan1967
10-26-2010, 04:19 PM
These are the rules under which I prefer to play rotation games, and I think they're the most fair for everyone:

-Winner breaks, rack your own

-10 ball must be the last ball on the table. If pocketed early on a combo or on the break, 11 (or 10, if you have drop pockets), ball is spotted, and shooter continues play as they lie

-10 ball must be called, but for any other ball, slop is OK

Not too complicated, and every time I've played under these rules, the better player on that day almost always wins.

I think these rules would transfer well to a 9 footer, and I think it's the best way to remove some of the more luck-related aspects of the game, without changing it TOO drastically.

What do you guys think?

I wouldn't want to play rules where you can luck in the 9 ball and accidentally have perfect placement on the 10, but i can't call a 3 10 combination to win the game even if i give you the exact details of how it happens.

All shots should be called and combo's on the 10 should count too. If you want safe, then call it, and shoot for it. 10 ball is a completely different game than 9 ball. 10 ball is the professional version of 9 ball and it should stay that way. Just my opinion btw.

edit: The poster before me beat me to it. I agree 100% with him

Pushout
10-26-2010, 04:44 PM
If you don't agree to these rules, don't play 10-ball. Play 9-ball instead.

-Sean

I've felt for years that this is the way 9 Ball SHOULD have been played, all along.

Masayoshi
10-26-2010, 04:53 PM
I think I like those rules in the OP, except I think early combos/caroms should be a win (if they are called).

TimKrazyMon
10-26-2010, 08:48 PM
I would probably agree with this but just what do you mean call everything? You mean call all balls,right?

Yes, call every ball.

sfleinen
10-27-2010, 07:51 AM
I've felt for years that this is the way 9 Ball SHOULD have been played, all along.

Pushout:

Well, if you're from the days of "pushout 9-ball" [...lightbulb goes on in Sean's head as to the origin of "Pushout"'s moniker...], I can see why you'd say this.

But to be honest, 10-ball was raised from the ashes of time (lots of folks don't know that it's a VERY OLD game -- older than 9-ball, even) precisely to deal with the significant shortcomings/shortfalls of 9-ball these days. Back in the day of "pushout" 9-ball, folks hadn't figured out the vulnerabilities of the diamond-shaped 9-ball rack, and to be honest, with the other skillsets involved with the game of 9-ball way back when (i.e. the spot shot; the skill in determining where to push out to an area of the table that's a strength for you, but weakness for your opponent [but still is tempting for your opponent]) things kind of leveled thing out anyway. With those things now gone, 9-ball is the vulnerable/exploitable game it is today.

What's not a good thing, is to carry those very same vulnerabilities forward into a game (10-ball) that was resurrected precisely for the purposes of addressing/killing them. It's like the ol', "you'll pry my Texas Express from my cold, dead fingers" that, if carried forward into 10-ball, *will* deface and kill that game as well.

Like I said, 10-ball is a game of "commitment" -- you commit to the shot, or you commit to the safety. 10-ball is the "professional version," if you will, of a tournament-setting rotation game. Only lower-echelon players want the "warm and fuzzy reassurance feeling" of two-way shots. (Granted, two-ways are wonderful when they're pulled off. But in order to address the vulnerabilities of 9-ball, unfortunately two-ways fell in the process of getting the "commit" aspect into the game.) Upper-echelon players want the *risk* introduced back into the game, the "stand by your decision," fair or foul.

Just some more thoughts from someone that's been in those pre-tourney players meetings at the open-level events, and knows what the upper echelon players' concerns are,
-Sean

GMAC
10-27-2010, 08:37 AM
Why can't we just play call pocket and if you miss it's the other guys turn. Every sport has some luck in it. How many times does a guy smash a line drive and its caught and the next guy get his bat broken and he gets a hit.

I have played the modified 10 ball rules where you can let the player shoot again. Fact is they can get very luck on the next shot if you let them shoot again, so trying to eliminate luck is impossible. I think call ball and if you miss the other player goes is the fairest rule. It has a good balance of skill and luck which all sports have.

BTW - 9 ball should never ever never be rack your own.

nathandumoulin
10-27-2010, 08:50 AM
-10 ball must be called, but for any other ball, slop is OK

I'm in 100% agreement (except for spotting the 10ball).

Eliminating slop will ruin the game even worse for spectators. 2 and 3 way shots are essential to preserving aggressive and loose shooting. Without this, the game is like watching paint dry. It's why players like Alex are so fun to watch.

tommy84
10-27-2010, 09:43 AM
I don't get the point why only low-level players are keen about the two-way shots.

In Germany we play under WPA rules so you have to call each ball and each safety, but if you call a ball and miss it the opponent must take over.

Even our professional players go at two way shots each and every time it makes sense to shoot them and they do the same in 8-Ball

I dislike the WPA+ rules or what ever it is called as it makes the games take longer. Already most 10-Ball sets take longer than 8-Ball

Stick with WPA and you're fine

DogsPlayingPool
10-27-2010, 10:58 PM
How about calling a difficult shot, it goes and you also pull off the built in safety. If the shot doesn't go, shouldn't you be rewarded for the safe. I like what you are getting at and beleive you are almost on point. This might be something to consider. I agree with call shot as well. You want to eliminate as much luck as possible, yes. However for the better player to emerge the difficult shots with built in safes should be considered. Great post. Carl

This is exactly how the current WPA (WSR) 10 Ball rules are written. The only time the incoming player has the option to give it back is if the called ball is pocketed in a wrong pocket or another ball goes in. On a simple miss (no balls fall) the incoming player must take the balls in position.

It is only in some tournaments, like the East Coast Tony Robles/Predator events and at the SBE that the incoming player has the option on any miss whether a ball goes in or not. But this is a departure from the WSR's.

vincentwu817
10-28-2010, 01:27 AM
I think being able to combo the 10 in will attribute to more luck. A dry break with the 10 close to the pocket is VERY lucky for the person that is shooting next.

Fatboy
12-18-2010, 09:47 AM
These are the rules under which I prefer to play rotation games, and I think they're the most fair for everyone:

-Winner breaks, rack your own

-10 ball must be the last ball on the table. If pocketed early on a combo or on the break, 11 (or 10, if you have drop pockets), ball is spotted, and shooter continues play as they lie

-10 ball must be called, but for any other ball, slop is OK

Not too complicated, and every time I've played under these rules, the better player on that day almost always wins.

I think these rules would transfer well to a 9 footer, and I think it's the best way to remove some of the more luck-related aspects of the game, without changing it TOO drastically.

What do you guys think?


I could live with those rules, no doubt.:)

Scott Lee
12-18-2010, 04:16 PM
Mike...Your PM file is full. Please delete some, so you can get a PM!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

These are the rules under which I prefer to play rotation games, and I think they're the most fair for everyone:

-Winner breaks, rack your own

-10 ball must be the last ball on the table. If pocketed early on a combo or on the break, 11 (or 10, if you have drop pockets), ball is spotted, and shooter continues play as they lie

-10 ball must be called, but for any other ball, slop is OK

Not too complicated, and every time I've played under these rules, the better player on that day almost always wins.

I think these rules would transfer well to a 9 footer, and I think it's the best way to remove some of the more luck-related aspects of the game, without changing it TOO drastically.

What do you guys think?