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Run the Century
10-27-2010, 06:32 AM
Played in league last night (BCA) and had a situation arise - guy breaks and makes a strip. His next shot he chooses a stripe, shoots and pockets it and hits the eight ball in. Loss of game is obvious - what's the score? In the pocketing of the eight ball is that considered a "foul"? If anyone can point me in the direction of the rules I'd appreciate it - we were scouring the rule book trying to find a ruling on this.

Black-Balled
10-27-2010, 06:35 AM
FIGHT!!!!!!!!

Helpful, I know.

TimKrazyMon
10-27-2010, 06:59 AM
Played in league last night (BCA) and had a situation arise - guy breaks and makes a strip. His next shot he chooses a stripe, shoots and pockets it and hits the eight ball in. Loss of game is obvious - what's the score? In the pocketing of the eight ball is that considered a "foul"? If anyone can point me in the direction of the rules I'd appreciate it - we were scouring the rule book trying to find a ruling on this.

Not 100% positive, but since the table was open, he declares which category he his & then base the score off that. So, assuming he chooses stripes, the score would be 15-1.

jay helfert
10-27-2010, 07:02 AM
Played in league last night (BCA) and had a situation arise - guy breaks and makes a strip. His next shot he chooses a stripe, shoots and pockets it and hits the eight ball in. Loss of game is obvious - what's the score? In the pocketing of the eight ball is that considered a "foul"? If anyone can point me in the direction of the rules I'd appreciate it - we were scouring the rule book trying to find a ruling on this.

This is a funny question. I didn't know you kept score in Eight Ball, other than to record wins and losses. I would think the score after this game is 1-0. But what do I know? :sorry:

ndakotan
10-27-2010, 07:05 AM
Played in league last night (BCA) and had a situation arise - guy breaks and makes a strip. His next shot he chooses a stripe, shoots and pockets it and hits the eight ball in. Loss of game is obvious - what's the score? In the pocketing of the eight ball is that considered a "foul"? If anyone can point me in the direction of the rules I'd appreciate it - we were scouring the rule book trying to find a ruling on this.

The shooter that pocketed the stripe and the eight ball on the first shot after the break has not successfully secured the stripe set. Therefore his opponent receives an 8 score and the shooter receives the ball score for the suite with the most balls on the table, which I assume is solids in this case, for a 0 (zero).

In our BCA league, we score a game 8 to the winner and the loser gets credit for the balls (of his set) off the table. We are in the boondocks, maybe scoring values are different in the bigger BCA regions? In any case, the guy that shot the stripe and 8 ball in gets credit for the solids pocketed, and the guy that hasn't shot gets full credit for a win.

PocketPoint
10-27-2010, 07:06 AM
I played in a league where you got 10 points for a win, and the loser got 1 point per ball pocketed.

So the score per game could be between 10-0 and 10-7.

TimKrazyMon
10-27-2010, 07:06 AM
This is a funny question. I didn't know you kept score in Eight Ball, other than to record wins and losses. I would think the score after this game is 1-0. But what do I know? :sorry:

In BCAPL, you get 1 pt for each ball of your category you make, 2 pts for the 8 ball, & 1 pt for every ball your opponent left on the table.

TheOneGnat
10-27-2010, 07:10 AM
..................

PocketPoint
10-27-2010, 07:11 AM
The 1 point per ball rules don't make sense though. It ruins the game as far as I'm concerned.

Neil
10-27-2010, 07:12 AM
..............

ndakotan
10-27-2010, 07:19 AM
In BCAPL, you get 1 pt for each ball of your category you make, 2 pts for the 8 ball, & 1 pt for every ball your opponent left on the table.

If that means you can get a 0 if your opponent runs out for 15 points, that's penalizing the guy in the chair 2 points for every ball left on the table (relative to the winner's score), which seems like a lopsided way to score.

TimKrazyMon
10-27-2010, 07:23 AM
If that means you can get a 0 if your opponent runs out for 15 points, that's penalizing the guy in the chair 2 points for every ball left on the table (relative to the winner's score), which seems like a lopsided way to score.

Actually, max score is 16-0. Our BCAPL is handicapped due to a large deviation in skill level between all the teams.

skeptic
10-27-2010, 07:52 AM
Interesting to see the different scoring rules across various BCA leagues. Where I play it is 10 points for the win and I believe it would be 2 points for the shooter (2 stripes are down at end of game). My guess is dropping the 8 is loss of game, but not a foul in the strictest sense. Legal hit on the stripe first, pocketed the stripe where intended, didn't scratch, didn't jump cue off the table. This should establish stripes, and of course dropping the 8 is loss of game.

Tom In Cincy
10-27-2010, 09:33 AM
It is an open table regardless if there is a ball made on the break or not,
A group (solids or stripes) is not claimed until a player makes a ball legally.
By making the 8 on the same shot no ball count is made. Only loss of game.

You have to make a legal shot to own a group.

Played in league last night (BCA) and had a situation arise - guy breaks and makes a strip. His next shot he chooses a stripe, shoots and pockets it and hits the eight ball in. Loss of game is obvious - what's the score? In the pocketing of the eight ball is that considered a "foul"? If anyone can point me in the direction of the rules I'd appreciate it - we were scouring the rule book trying to find a ruling on this.

ChicagoRJ
10-29-2010, 08:16 PM
In our League, it is 10 points for a win and 1 extra point for every ball opponent leaves on table. Thus, a run out would result in a 17-0 score.

In this situation, winner gets 10 for win, and 5 more points for the opponent balls left on table since the breaker made two stripes.

Even if you only play a 10 point rule... winner gets 10, loser would get 2 points, one for each stripe. Score: 10 - 2

I can't see how either of these would not be fair to both parties....

ChicagoRJ
10-29-2010, 08:19 PM
This is a funny question. I didn't know you kept score in Eight Ball, other than to record wins and losses. I would think the score after this game is 1-0. But what do I know? :sorry:

Jay, hello, and welcome to the 21st Century. You will really enjoy it , glad you could make it !! Now go throw that 60's tie die shirt in the trash (you know you got one!!)

See you at DCC !!

tatcat2000
10-30-2010, 01:49 PM
If, by "BCA", you mean either a BCAPL league or an independent league that is using BCAPL rules, the following applies.

Suggested guidance is available in "BCAPL 8-Ball Scoring Anomalies", which is part of the "BCAPL 8-BAll League Scoring and Handicapping" section of the BCAPL League Operator's Manual. Your League Operator should have that information. In all cases, shooter's intent is considered in determining scoring. Situation 1, while not the exact OP situation, provides the most accurate guidance:

"Shooter approaches the table with an 'Open Table.' The shooter calls the 1-ball, pockets the 1-ball, but unintentionally pockets the 8-ball as well - thus losing the game. The opponent is credited with 10 points for the win and the shooter receives 1 point due to the 1-ball no longer being on the table...”

Please remember, this is a suggested system. While your league's exact point system may vary, the principle of crediting the pocketed stripes to the shooter in the OP situation would apply. Or, it may be that your League Operator has a detailed system providing other guidance.

To help leagues that are not provded such guidance by their operator, the "Applied Rulings" section of the BCAPL rule book will be updated with an entry for BCAPL Rule 2.7.2 to direct inquiries concerning detailed handicap-based scoring guidance to the information above, via either the League Operator or the BCAPL website.

------------

If, by "BCA", you mean an independent league that is using WSR, then unfortunately you are on your own, unless your League Management has the sense to write extensive regulations to fill in the huge gaps left by WSR, which offers no guidance whatsoever to, nor seems to have any interest in assisting, amateur league play concerning scoring in a ball-count points based system.

------------

Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net

Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx

* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Neither I nor any BCAPL referee make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 and the BCAPL Rules "Statement of Principles" apply.
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JamesJ
10-30-2010, 04:52 PM
Score would be 10-2. Two points for the loser because 2 stripes were potted. One on the break, one on the 2nd shot when the 8 was also illegally sunk.