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maximillion
04-23-2003, 07:58 PM
My freinds and I seem to be at a difference of opinion every time we watch 'The Color of Money' After Fast Eddie loses to Ames, Ames looks at him and says:
"I want you to be real honest with me, do you think I need to lose some weight"
now some of us think he is talking about weight as in a handicap or giving up a spot, and others think he is talking about his physical size type weight just to push eddies buttons.

We have a small bet going on this and AZ forums is going to be the deciding factor.

Rickw
04-23-2003, 08:29 PM
My vote is that he's talking about his physical weight.

Rick

Keith McCready
04-23-2003, 09:08 PM
Amos was sarcastic in his statement to Eddie, and I believe that he was really just needling him. It seems to me that Amos was acting as if he had Eddie in his hip pocket. I wish guys would have hustled pool like that back in the '70s because anybody who plays pool would have taken care of Amos, which generates good action.

I was sort of lucky to be able to get the part of Grady Seasons in "The Color of Money." It wasn't very hard for me to play that part. As for the other actors, it was harder for them to play their parts than it was for me to play mine. When you can visualize the character and believe it is actually him, the actor's portrayal is successful. And as we know, "The Color of Money" was successful.

A story line is always open to the viewer's perception, like you and your friend perceiving Amos' actions differently.

Keith "Earthquake" McCready a/k/a Grady Seasons

AzHousePro
04-23-2003, 10:25 PM
I am with Rick on this one. I think he was talking about his physical weight.

Mike

Chucklez65
04-24-2003, 05:24 AM
I also agree with Rick - he was referring to physical weight.

Chuck

Over 40
04-24-2003, 05:37 AM
physical weight

Billy Jungle
04-24-2003, 07:29 AM
physical weight.......in my view

RAZOR ROG
04-24-2003, 07:34 AM
I think that line definitely had the double meaning.

1-P
04-24-2003, 08:42 AM
It definitely had a double meaning and it was definitely referring to the spot that Eddie had given Amos. Otherwise it would make no sense at all.

If you took a non-player to see the movie, the question they most likely asked was what did Amos mean when he said that. Because it makes no sense in the normal context. But they are in a pool room in a money game, where weight only has one meaning--Amos wasn't asking if he should enroll at WeightWatchers.

It was the double meaning that makes it such a great line, but IMHO there is not question as to how it was meant.

1-P

Rich R.
04-24-2003, 08:44 AM
I agree with Razor Rog.

The line has a double meaning.

To some it is about his physical weight, but to others, it is about giving up some weight on the table.

Whether intentional or not, it was some very clever writing.

Rich R.

Chucklez65
04-24-2003, 09:17 AM
We can agree that depending on your interpretation of the line, there could be a dual meaning to this statement...but there was never any mention of a spot to Amos in the movie at all. They did not appear to be racing to any number so that he was giving a number of games and he did not appear to be giving him any early balls because he was making only the 9 ball in the game.

While I understand there is a possibility of a handicap in the game, I did not see any reference to a spot it in the movie, or the book, for that matter.

JMHO

Chuck

1-P
04-24-2003, 10:08 AM
There doesn't have to be any mention of a spot because the scene opens with Amos apologizing for sinking the 9 off of the 8 and explaining that he can never make that shot. That is the "hustle". In a heads-up match, there is no need for Amos' remarks or for the whole conversation regarding whether Amos is a hustler. In the end, Eddie is not upset because Amos beat him but that he was hustled.

IMHO, there is a clear implication of weight without ever having to say it.

1-P

Chucklez65
04-24-2003, 11:16 AM
My take on this is that he got hustled because his game was not what it used to be and he was not able to spot another 'hustler' who played better than he did. He was too rapped up in winning from the other games that he played that he let himself get taken by a better player that did not appear to be better. He was upset that his judgment was so clouded by his belief that he was one of the best hustlers around that he could not spot another hustler.

However,

But in your explanation, I can see how your theory is entirely possible. Thank you for explaining the other side of the discussion so clearly. I had not considered it from this point of view...if it is what they meant to portray, then they veiled it pretty well. If not, then they clearly got more out of the dialogue than they meant to and made it a scene to think about after you watch it.

Chuck

Battleready
04-24-2003, 08:15 PM
double meaning all day.....

and a good damn good one at that...lol

maximillion
04-24-2003, 09:01 PM
Ok looks like the over all opinion from az is that it was a double meaning, but that doesnt win me any beer, does anyone know the actors name or even the writer? We just raised the bet.

Keith McCready
04-24-2003, 09:19 PM
Forest Whitaker, in a cameo appearance, played the character of Amos.

Walter Tevis is the author of "The Color of Money."

Hey, where is Grady Mathews? I would like to hear what his opinions are.

Keith "Earthquake" McCready

weelie
04-25-2003, 01:43 AM
To me it was the physical weight for sure. I love the line.

It's like when you go to a pool hall, you look at guys, their cue action.. I can beat him, I can beat hime, he plays a mean a game, not sure, ... etc. Fast Eddie thought the stupid looking fatso was an easy score... and that's what Amos wanted look like all along. That's why the classic one liner.

dennis
04-25-2003, 02:52 AM
Thats exactly the point he was asking him about his hustle ,did eddie even think for a second he was going to lose to that fat chump?later,dennis

Battleready
04-25-2003, 02:54 AM
forest wittaker is amos's name.

RAZOR ROG
04-25-2003, 10:47 AM
It was one of my favorite lines in the movie. Only a pool player would get it. If the movie had been about any other subject, the statement would have been "weight watchers " all the way.

Billy Jungle
04-25-2003, 12:58 PM
looks like forrest whittaker......after rewatch double meaning seems clearer

Jimmy M.
04-25-2003, 02:39 PM
There is no double meaning. Amos was just being an ass to rib Fast Eddie. The whole point to that line being in the movie was to let us know that, yes, Fast Eddie was hustled. It was an answer to Fast Eddie's question, "are you a hustler, Amos?"

Jimmy M.
04-25-2003, 02:46 PM
Kieth: I thought I heard you say, years ago, that you changed your lines a little bit because you didn't think that the original lines they wanted you to say sounded like something that a pool player would say. Is that true?

Keith McCready
04-25-2003, 04:09 PM
We shot scenes with me ad libbing that you guys didn't see, and yes, we did try to shoot scenes with me saying what I wanted.

The line, "It's like a nightmare, isn't it?," was script. Me calling him "a lucky little pr*ck" was me.

Keith "Earthquake" McCready

LAMas
04-26-2003, 01:42 AM
The dialog during the match by Amos was pure sarcasm. Amos would have to give some weight, like the wild 8 or so, for a more competative match.

Big Dave
04-26-2003, 08:26 AM
Definately, "You thought you couldn't lose against the fat chump" that Dennis said earlier!

Maybe it's time for a "Director's Cut" with that extra footage included!!!

Nineball Tim
04-26-2003, 11:54 AM
The guys weight no doubt,

1-P
04-26-2003, 12:41 PM
OK, try this. If, as many of you suggest, Amos is referring to his physical weight. Replay the scene, but when Amos says, "Do you think I should lose some weight?" substitute "Do you think I should go on a diet?"

I rest my case.

1-P

Rickw
04-26-2003, 06:07 PM
Not meant to be argumentative Kieth, but Forrest Whitaker was playing a role, Amos, not a cameo. If he was playing a cameo, his name in the movie would have been Forrest. What can I say? While you're working to be one of the best pool players in the world, I watch movies. I would never think of correcting anything you say about pool.

My feeling about that scene was that Amos knew he had humiliated Eddie and he was making like it was just no big deal. Like, he just stabbed this guy in the heart and now he wants to know if the guy thinks he's a little overweight. That's like stepping on his face as he's laying there dying. That's what led Eddie to want to part with his two road partners and get back into the game. He thought he knew it all but Amos just showed him that he didn't. That's also when he realized that he needed to woodshed and get his game back.

jjinfla
04-26-2003, 06:08 PM
Eddie wasn't upset that he was hustled - he was upset that he didn't catch the hustle. The hustler got hustled. And when Amos asked the question I think everyone thought it was going to be something about hustling. But a good con man (hustler) never gives away the con. The part of the movie that I thought was stupid was when the kid came in with the envelope with 8K for Eddie and told him he "dumped" in their game and as a result he got all kinds of action in the green room. I would have thought that Eddie would have been happy that his student learned so well. But the really big dissappointment was that there was no follow up movie. Especially at the end when Eddie broke and said "I'm back". Jake

Rickw
04-26-2003, 07:34 PM
I agree with you, Jake, about Eddie being upset that he didn't catch the hustle. Remember when he took Vincent and his girlfriend to eat and he told Vincent, "You watched the watch and I was watching you." He thought he knew people but Amos threw him for a loop.

What I didn't get was the whole pissed off scene after Eddie got hustled by Amos. What was Vincent so pissed about? He knew what to do now because of everything Eddie taught him. Why was he so pissed? I just didn't get that part. I can understand sad or maybe disappointment but anger? I didn't get that.

As for the $8k, I could understand that. Eddie wanted to beat Vincent's best game and he thought he had. I think Eddie saw that hustling was not so special. He learned that being the best that you can be at something is more important than hustling. I think he finally got that. I'm with you, I would have loved to see another movie to see what happened after that. Eddie wasn't talking about hustling at the end of the movie. He was saying I'll beat you in Atlanta next week and if not there, then Dallas or somewhere else. My understanding is that these were all tournaments not hustling events.

Rick

Jimmy M.
04-26-2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by 1-P
OK, try this. If, as many of you suggest, Amos is referring to his physical weight. Replay the scene, but when Amos says, "Do you think I should lose some weight?" substitute "Do you think I should go on a diet?"

I rest my case.

1-P

What is the case? The line would have the same exact meaning. He was just being an ass. He just beat Eddie. Eddie is sitting there upset, wondering if he just got hustled, then Amos asks a dumb ass question like that as if to say, "screw you, old man", letting Eddie, and the audience know, that yes, Amos was hustling him all along.

The only time that any mention of "weight" was used in the movie, it wasn't refered to as "weight". There was the time when they did the "two men and a brother" hustle, where Vince went into the place and talked about giving up "the 8, the 7, the 7 AND 8", and then there was the time when Vince asked Grady Seasons (hey, I know that guy) "up your ass with the spot, ok by you?" There *might* have been mention of a spot after Vince beat Julian in the beginning of the movie, but that is about it. The meaning of the line is so obvious. At the point that Eddie has lost, Eddie doesn't know if he was hustled, and neither does the audience. Amos makes a smart ass comment, it becomes apparent he was hustling him all along, and Eddie goes off, buys glasses, starts swimming/working out/whatever, and practicing ... and I'm sure we all know the rest of the story.

You guys have a guy who was IN the movie saying that he thought the line was referring to physical weight, and that he was just needling Eddie. What more is needed other than the obvious?

dennis
04-27-2003, 06:38 AM
The ribbing is when amos says i dont know i lose i pay then he tells eddie to keep the money remember?later,dennis

dennis
04-27-2003, 06:39 AM
eddie asks amos "are you a hustler?"

LAMas
04-27-2003, 06:56 AM
Amos started his spin by telling Eddie that he was a "subject" in a college study on mind motor coordination. Amos is so self effacing and seemingly simple - reeling Eddie into his web. It's so simple "you don't have to pay" but Eddie has character and does. Some matches go on without any dialog like with Eddie who says little but Amos makes the match interesting with the story of his stunted life.
Amos could have lost some weight by keeping quiet and thereby not messing with Eddie's mind (like a spot)- then we would have lost interest.

solo007
04-27-2003, 09:00 AM
I think he is refering to his size... and does anyone know if the writer played pool in the first place?

Tony C.
04-27-2003, 03:14 PM
Amos was just breaking Eddies balls after he beat him. Actually i took it as Eddie let him beat him so Vincent could see what a real dumping was. Theres no way eddie let this guy beat him, it was a lesson for Vincent. Anyone remember the dialogue in the hallway after that match, it says everything.

Marv
04-27-2003, 06:54 PM
Physical weight. To say the line had a double meaning is giving it more credit than it deserved and also isn't consistent with the rest of the dialogue in the movie.

Vahe
04-28-2003, 04:50 AM
The actor was Forrest Whitaker (sp?).

Don't know the writer's name.

maximillion
04-29-2003, 01:33 AM
thanks everybody, I owe you a beer.

At least those who think Amos needs to "lose some weight"!!!

fxskater
04-30-2003, 03:04 PM
I think that it is referering to his physical wieght as well. I have it on DVD so maybe tonight ill go home and watch it with the directors commentary. Hopefully it will set it straight. Also for whoever was wondering the writer of 'The Colour Of Money' is Walter Tevis. Who also wrote 'The Hustler' and a bunch of short pool stories. I think Byrne's Book Of Great Pool Stories has a few of Walter Tevis' short stories in it.

bruin70
05-01-2003, 02:23 AM
it's his physical weight...that's the joke,,,that it has nothing to do with the game of pool.

and you "give up" weight,,,you don't "lose " weight.

LAMas
05-01-2003, 06:49 PM
Eddie is losing to Amos because his skills are not up to speed. When you are losing you wonder if you are being hustled. Why ask if your being hustled? Do you expect an honest answer? Amos makes self degrading comments about his basic ability and wonders about his incredible shots - which are hard for anyone. Amos believes that he is hustling and that he is pushing Eddie's hot buttons with his incredible shots/luck - he is sarcastic. This sarcasm can be considered "sharking" and causes Eddie to doubt what is really happening - that's the beauty of sharking. Amos is overweight and to ask for an honest answer about "should I lose weight" is the ultimate sarcasm for the answer is yes. Was Amos sharking? - yes. Did Eddie let himself get hustled? - yes. It doesn't matter if this is about physical weight or giving a spot to level the playing field for those that think that there is a double meaning get more satisfaction from the movie.

Grady
05-04-2003, 08:30 AM
The actor was Forest Whittaker and the line about losing weight referred to body poundage, obviously, at least to a professional.

Koop
05-04-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Grady
The actor was Forest Whittaker and the line about losing weight referred to body poundage, obviously, at least to a professional.

Enough said... :)

Goat
05-06-2003, 12:52 PM
I would have to say that it means physical wieght, just to be cocky, i can relate, for i too am very cocky!

Jimmy M.
05-06-2003, 02:11 PM
I'm not sure if I'm amused or not, but I might be, which would lead me to say that it is amusing that there is even a debate over this line. Of course, I would only say that if I were certain that I were amused! :D

Man, I kill me!

LAMas
05-10-2003, 02:20 PM
Wow, what a long thread.
Saying "tell me honestly" is the key to what is fascinating/amusing about the dialogue, for Amos could have said any other sarcastic remark like - do you think I'm lucky? Amos was telling Eddie that he (Eddie) doesn't see the obvious.
Eddie wasn't dumping because there wasn't another match that was relevent to Eddie having lost to Amos - another match with Amos or anyone else. Dumping must be witnessed by other prospective shooters who now think that they know your speed is weak and are willing to hustle you.

AzHousePro
05-10-2003, 02:50 PM
You know, I always looked at that scene as Amos always knowing who Eddie was and that he was an old hustler. It was Amos's way of letting Eddie know that he too was a hustler. I don't know that the dialogue is really what made me think that, I think it was more the delivery of the dialogue.

Kind of like the waiter at the foreign restaurant saying bad things about the customer all through the meal in a foreign language and the customer saying something at the end of the night in that same foreign language.

Mike

dan
05-15-2003, 12:56 PM
Not to beat a dead horse, but I just watched The Color of Money again. I used to think it was physical weight and no double meaning, since, as was pointed out, there are no references handicapping as "giving weight" in the rest of the movie.

But, it turns out that weight is used to describe playing ability in at least one other scene. When Eddie, Vince, and Carmen first head out the following exchange occurs:

Carmen: So who's the heaviest guy?
Eddie: What'd you ask that for, I'm the heaviest guy right Eddie?
...

Anyway, now I'm not so sure about the Amos line anymore.

Grady
05-15-2003, 03:03 PM
No pro that I ever knew called himself "heavy". The contex left no misunderstanding when Forrest Whittaker used the word.

Rickw
05-15-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Grady
No pro that I ever knew called himself "heavy". The contex left no misunderstanding when Forrest Whittaker used the word.

AMEN!

jkraft
05-16-2003, 05:42 PM
The thing I hate about that scene (or @ least the begining of the scene) is that "Amos" is just shooting the balls in w/out the cue ball. They're trying to hide it by cutting off the top part of the table, but if you watch it close enough (I've seen the movie a good number of times) you can clearly see that "Amos" is just shooting them right into the pocket, so when he "misses" his last shot, "Fast Eddie" can kick @ one of the balls to combo in the nine cross side...

About the scene's controversy, I'm thinking the writer meant physical weight, and some pool players are reading into it too much thinking it could mean some sortof "spot." -- which is good I guess, if it makes you feel good about knowing more about the game & hopefully making the movie more "personal" to pool players.

I've always expected a movie after that, for the same reason someone else mentioned to "I'm BACK!" Wish it would happen. Poolhall junkies was OK in my opinion, but not as good as either The Hustler or The Color of Money. Baltimore Bullet & Kiss Shot are my least favorite.

Anyways, here's my double meaning quote -- "I'm Out."

jjinfla
05-17-2003, 05:47 AM
One last opinion: The game is over, Fast Eddie pays off, Amos is putting away his cue, (and remember that Fast Eddie earlier asked if Amos was hustling him), and that thought was in Eddie's mind throughout the match, and now Amos asks him the question. Fast Eddie looks at Amos, most likely waiting for Amos to respond to the hustling question, to come clean between two hustlers, and Amos looks him in the eye and says, "do you think I need to lose some weight?" It was just one more zinger on Amos's part. The finishing touch to a great job of hustling the hustler. Jake

Cardinal_Syn
05-20-2003, 11:02 PM
ah man.....i think it's time for me to buy the DVD for i haven't watched it yet....

Chucklez65
05-21-2003, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by Cardinal_Syn
ah man.....i think it's time for me to buy the DVD for i haven't watched it yet....

WHAT!!!!!

How can any respectable pool player (is that an oxymoron??) who posts on this site NOT have watched this movie!!!???

j/k heh...its a pretty good flick - a must have in any Pool Players DVD library.

IMHO

Chuck

LAMas
05-21-2003, 06:18 AM
Fast Eddie's question is "are you hustling me?".
Amos' answer is yes because the question "do you think I need to lose weight?" has only one answer which is yes. Amos could have asked "is a pigs as_ (butt)pork?" and the answer would be yes. Sarcasm always has an element of truth. It now doesn't matter to me if it was physical weight or a spot because the answer "yes" in the form of a question that has only one answer(yes)was the meaning - to me.

Cardinal_Syn
05-21-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by Chucklez65
WHAT!!!!!

How can any respectable pool player (is that an oxymoron??) who posts on this site NOT have watched this movie!!!???

j/k heh...its a pretty good flick - a must have in any Pool Players DVD library.

IMHO

Chuck
hehehe....i'll buy it this weekend.....i got Hustler on DVD already....i was thinking of buying C.O.M long time ago but i thought it would suk...i mean what movie can beat Hustler....but regardless i will buy it this weekend.

bandido
05-21-2003, 11:20 AM
Ka-Ching!!! 777!
Originally posted by LAMas
Fast Eddie's question is "are you hustling me?".
Amos' answer is yes because the question "do you think I need to lose weight?" has only one answer which is yes. Amos could have asked "is a pigs as_ (butt)pork?" and the answer would be yes. Sarcasm always has an element of truth. It now doesn't matter to me if it was physical weight or a spot because the answer "yes" in the form of a question that has only one answer(yes)was the meaning - to me.

saintsfan_26
05-22-2003, 04:44 PM
definately the handicap...but the reason it comes off so clean is because of his physical weight...it's a hidden jab that let eddie know he was hustled b/c a hustler is expected to know what that question was really about.