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LeagueGuy
03-31-2011, 07:29 AM
Now that we have the sandbagging poll going, I am just curious as to what people think about Gambling.

Would you hide your true speed in order to get a big spot in a race for a large amount of cash.

justadub
03-31-2011, 07:36 AM
Easy for me to answer.

I go all out.

Of course, when you play as poorly as I do, there's no point in trying to hide it! :p

j/k

I'm not into the hustle. It's sandbagging, spelled differently.

Winston846
03-31-2011, 07:49 AM
Hiding your true speed in a money game isn't gambling. It's hustling.

jalapus logan
03-31-2011, 08:00 AM
Hiding your true speed in a money game isn't gambling. It's hustling.

You got it.

JolietJames
03-31-2011, 08:11 AM
^^^ What they said.
Right now we have some up and comers around town who want to challenge the higher level guys and INSIST on plyaing us even so there is no need to hide our speeds. However, in an unfamiliar place or against an unfamiliar player I hide a little because I assume they will be doing the same to try to get weight they may not need.

azbluemach1
03-31-2011, 08:18 AM
Nobody here will admit outloud - they will all just act high/mighty/judgmental. Then you will see the same guys @GUSHING@ I'm the "hustling disguise" thread about all the great tricks they and their friends used to pull.

Mr Hoppe
03-31-2011, 09:10 AM
An analogy:
When I'm playing poker, I want the worst players in the world at my table. I'm not trying to win a trophy for being the best player, I'm just trying to win the cash! That is, after all, the point.

I'll take as many balls and/or games on the wire as you want to give me. If I end up going home with your money, I'll still feel good about it. Just my opinion.

nelldrake
03-31-2011, 09:31 AM
Apparently, my speed is always hidden. Even I can't find it!
Seriously, I don't play for money but for the love of the game. I play anybody who will give me a game even. If they are better players and I win, I feel like I like I have really done something and it boosts my conficence and I love it. If I get beat (and usually do) I learn from the better player and that is my reward.
I don't really have anything against gambling. It just doesn't appeal to me.

fabfastfredyy
03-31-2011, 09:37 AM
I'll curl my hair and wear a tropical island shirt if I have to.

Scott Lee
03-31-2011, 09:39 AM
azbluemach1...Again you come with the "everybody does it (whether they will admit it or not), so it's ok" philosophy. That may work for you, but it speaks volumes about your integrity...or lack thereof. Hiding your speed, to get a spot in a money game, is hustling plain and simple. To some that may be okay, but for me...I have more moral character than that. Among two guys trying to "hustle" each other...let the buyer beware! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Nobody here will admit outloud - they will all just act high/mighty/judgmental. Then you will see the same guys @GUSHING@ I'm the "hustling disguise" thread about all the great tricks they and their friends used to pull.

Jude Rosenstock
03-31-2011, 09:41 AM
I think the real question one must ask themselves is this - how much money is worth risking your life over? Hustling for any amount of cash can lead to a physical confrontation and really, that's the first thing on my list of things to avoid. I'm on the opposite side of the gambling spectrum. I play straight up. When I lose, I pay. When I win, I take care of the table time and offer to buy my opponent a drink. I think it's of the utmost importance to be polite no matter the outcome and hustling contradicts that in every manner.

Scott Lee
03-31-2011, 09:41 AM
fabfastfredyy...Hey, I resemble that remark! :D I just like my Hawaiian pool shirt, and wear it a lot!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I'll wear a tropical island shirt if I have to.

Scott Lee
03-31-2011, 09:43 AM
Tap, tap, tap!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I think the real question one must ask themselves is this - how much money is worth risking your life over? Hustling for any amount of cash can lead to a physical confrontation and really, that's the first thing on my list of things to avoid. I'm on the opposite side of the gambling spectrum. I play straight up. When I lose, I pay. When I win, I take care of the table time and offer to buy my opponent a drink. I think it's of the utmost importance to be polite no matter the outcome and hustling contradicts that in every manner.

InTheCloudzzz
03-31-2011, 11:22 AM
Would you hide your true speed in order to get a big spot in a race for a large amount of cash.

Definitely! Making the game is a significant part of who wins the match and how much speed you show beforehand directly effects the matchmaking process. I don't understand why you should be obligated to play your absolute best all the time if you choose not to (whatever the reason may be).

IMO, disguising one's play is an inherent part of the game (as it is in poker) and is possibly the most important skill one can have if the objective is to win (referring to gambling of course).

And I believe "hustling" is one of the most appealing aspects of the game that should in no way be shunned in the attempt to make pool appear to be something it is not.

Again, just my opinion.

Ryan

chris_25
03-31-2011, 11:47 AM
Hiding your true speed in a money game isn't gambling. It's hustling.

well I guess I'm a Hustler then because I'll had my true speed everytime I play someone I don't know for cash or not. very few times have i ever showed my true speed when gambling. Because if you win they always want a spot next time you play.

trustyrusty
03-31-2011, 12:18 PM
me - play all out....don't care if I get your money or not. I know for some, it's ALL about the money, I get that, but some do play this game for the competition (the challenge). Would it be easy to play a couple of balls lower, say in 1P, and take advantage of someone (even over an extended period of time), sure. But, what does that really make you? A good gambler? OK, but what about your game? I'd rather play someone and TEST myself; maybe even taking less or giving more spot than what makes an even game. I'm not playing to pay my mortgage. I have a job that does that. I want to compete.

Hustling can be fun and a rush in itself for some. There is just no appeal there for me. Ha ha, I tricked you, I'd think would get a bit old. For those who count on hustling income to get by....fine, do it, but a hustler is bound to be hustled; have fun walking that line. I'll play for a chunk of change now and then, but I won't play for anything that will sting all that much, and I don't like playing for something that I know/think will put my opponent in a bad way. The stories of how this guy BUSTS that guy....I couldn't do it. NO WAY! I feel bad winning more than a few games off of a local older gentleman on a limited income (his idea on the betting, and will get mad if we don't). I enjoy playing him so much though, like Jude, I usually pick up table time, a few drinks, and something to eat.

sorry, for the long post, just thought an explanation was needed instead of saying, YES, I hide my speed; or NO, I do not. :cool:

fabfastfredyy
03-31-2011, 12:20 PM
fabfastfredyy...Hey, I resemble that remark! :D I just like my Hawaiian pool shirt, and wear it a lot!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

LOL. I'm just kidding.

azbluemach1
03-31-2011, 12:36 PM
azbluemach1...Again you come with the "everybody does it (whether they will admit it or not), so it's ok" philosophy. That may work for you, but it speaks volumes about your integrity...or lack thereof.

Scott - your reading comprehension sucks bro. I wasn't endorsing it by any stretch, I was pointing out the impending and inevitable hypocrisy about to be shown in this forum. In fact, if you actually bothered to READ my league post, you would have caught the part about where I always play 100% except for one time I did hustle a guy once when I was 17, and I gave the money back. That speaks volumes of my integrity and I would bet my case $$ you couldn't say the same.

My people reading skills suck, too. I used to think you were a pretty cool guy. :p

catpool9
03-31-2011, 12:51 PM
Now that we have the sandbagging poll going, I am just curious as to what people think about Gambling.

Would you hide your true speed in order to get a big spot in a race for a large amount of cash.



I have always played all out, I'm a slow starter to get it together making the balls, so everyone jumps on me , but I do get better as it goes along, lots better, so thats why I play by the game, play cheap and gradually raise the bet or my opponent does, so at the end neither one of us are pissed at the other over any monies lost or won.

My hustle is no hustle, works great!


David Harcrow

Scott Lee
03-31-2011, 12:56 PM
Actually my reading skills are excellent. I test out at 18th grade level (that's a master's degree level...just below PhD). I used to think you were okay too...until some of your latest threads and posts, which undermine, imo, your sense of fair play and integrity. That's okay...it takes all kinds, huh?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com


My people reading skills suck, too. I used to think you were a pretty cool guy. :p

Scott Lee
03-31-2011, 01:00 PM
David...I just love your attitude! You've been around the block LOTS of times, and still know the score! Tap, tap, tap! :thumbup: BTW, my gambling mentor (Jack White) used to tell me these "rules" for gambling...bet whatever they want (even it's only a quarter); let them raise the bet (they nearly always will); play good enough to win, but don't rub it in their face when you do; and lastly, be NICE...buy your opponent a drink or sandwich once in a while. Seem like pretty good rules to live by! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I have always played all out, I'm a slow starter to get it together making the balls, so everyone jumps on me , but I do get better as it goes along, lots better, so thats why I play by the game, play cheap and gradually raise the bet or my opponent does, so at the end neither one of us are pissed at the other over any monies lost or won.

My hustle is no hustle, works great!


David Harcrow

gpeezy
03-31-2011, 01:02 PM
i match up over my head often. just know if the stars align i get the cash. been cloudy nites lately however lol.

Scott Lee
03-31-2011, 01:02 PM
I knew ya were! Didn't ya see the smiley face! LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

LOL. I'm just kidding.

Scott Lee
03-31-2011, 01:05 PM
George...You crack me up! You said the same thing the last time I saw you...when Randy and I did a pool school in Huntsville, a couple years ago! Haven't seen you around these parts in a while. Good to see you posting again. Still got that "superhuman" break speed? LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

i match up over my head often. just know if the stars align i get the cash. been cloudy nites lately however lol.

azbluemach1
03-31-2011, 01:06 PM
Actually my reading skills are excellent. I test out at 18th grade level (that a master's degree level...just below PhD). I used to think you were okay too...until some of your latest threads and posts, which undermine, imo, your sense of fair play and integrity. That's okay...it takes all kinds, huh?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Wow, thats awesome!! Good for you bro. Now use them almost graduate level skills to show where I was clearly endorsing hustling - or whatever it is your accusing me of?

Obviously I was simply predicting some hypocrisy. Honestly I am pleasantly suprised that this poll is showing answers on each side, right or wrong at least some are being honest.

And I doubt you ever saw me as anything except potential income for yourself or your colleagues the way you berated me for not getting lessons quick enough (less than a week) after YOU suggested that I not make changes before a competitive event - in an old thread to boot. Rename the site to AZHypocrits.com?

Nobody here will admit outloud - they will all just act high/mighty/judgmental. Then you will see the same guys @GUSHING@ I'm the "hustling disguise" thread about all the great tricks they and their friends used to pull.

Jude Rosenstock
03-31-2011, 01:10 PM
Actually my reading skills are excellent. I test out at 18th grade level (that's a master's degree level...just below PhD). I used to think you were okay too...until some of your latest threads and posts, which undermine, imo, your sense of fair play and integrity. That's okay...it takes all kinds, huh?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

In regards to both of you, I think hypocracy can be found in everyone. The truth is, many people on this forum have been playing pool a long time. If you want to go back in time and see the person I was and my view on gambling when I started playing, it would be a near opposite to the person I am today. Part of that has to do with the ways the game has changed and part of that has to do with growing up. I think we're allowed to speak fondly about our salad days in one thread and yet argue for integrity in another.

catpool9
03-31-2011, 01:29 PM
David...I just love your attitude! You've been around the block LOTS of times, and still know the score! Tap, tap, tap! :thumbup: BTW, my gambling mentor (Jack White) used to tell me these "rules" for gambling...bet whatever they want (even it's only a quarter); let them raise the bet (they nearly always will); play good enough to win, but don't rub it in their face when you do; and lastly, be NICE...buy your opponent a drink or sandwich once in a while. Seem like pretty good rules to live by! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com


Damn Scott, you would make a good hustler! he he:grin-square:

You got it right, when you leave a place and everyone there like's you, you did your job!


David Harcrow

Scott Lee
03-31-2011, 01:59 PM
azbluemach1...I believe that's "post graduate" level skills, rather than almost graduate. Now...if all I saw you as was potential income, why in the world would I steer you to another instructor? Jerry may be my friend and colleague, but he is a great instructor...that's why I suggested him to you. If you lived somewhere else, I might have suggested a different instructor. You're the one who posted that you were going to contact Jerry the following week (AFTER your tournament). You haven't done so, and that is certainly your privilege. Best of luck in improving whatever it is that you're trying to improve! :grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Wow, thats awesome!! Good for you bro. Now use them almost graduate level skills to show where I was clearly endorsing hustling - or whatever it is your accusing me of?

And I doubt you ever saw me as anything except potential income for yourself or your colleagues the way you berated me for not getting lessons quick enough (less than a week) after YOU suggested that I not make changes before a competitive event - in an old thread to boot. Rename the site to AZHypocrits.com?

Fatboy
03-31-2011, 03:15 PM
This poll explains a lot to me, now I know why there is no action. everybody knows how everybody plays. And since all the information is there it makes no sence to donate to better players.


Not hiding speed is like playing poker with the cards all turned face up. Who's gonna bet on that?

heit8
03-31-2011, 03:18 PM
This poll explains a lot to me, now I know why there is no action. everybody knows how everybody plays. And since all the information is there it makes no sence to donate to better players.


Not hiding speed is like playing poker with the cards all turned face up. Who's gonna bet on that?

I guess thats why people of less ability ask for spots, trying to even it up a bit so that is not donating.

Fatboy
03-31-2011, 09:23 PM
I guess thats why people of less ability ask for spots, trying to even it up a bit so that is not donating.


years ago Kim Davenport told me "Weight is purchased not given". So if you can take the heat you can giver up more weight cause the weaker $$$ player will get a hitch in his stroke when the bet is high enough. If you can beat them high roll them and then beat them. If you dont have the $$$(my case for years) go play soft action before you step up. But with all the knowlege of how everyone plays it knocks action.

Thunderball
03-31-2011, 09:30 PM
I pulled the no lever.

Mostly because I gamble light and almost exclusively with guys I "know" are my speed or who sure they are stronger then me and are not. No real reason to lay down in either instance...and like some others have said, I ain't got much to hide either way lol.

lorider
03-31-2011, 09:44 PM
I have always played all out, I'm a slow starter to get it together making the balls, so everyone jumps on me , but I do get better as it goes along, lots better, so thats why I play by the game, play cheap and gradually raise the bet or my opponent does, so at the end neither one of us are pissed at the other over any monies lost or won.

My hustle is no hustle, works great!


David Harcrow

im like you, a slow starter. i never hide my speed because i never look for action but i do take offers of action occasionally. i dont give weight and dont ask for any. whenever i do accept action i always let them up the ante.

it never ceases to amaze me that they are looking for action and raising the bets but yet after i have got a couple beers in me and get loosened up that im the one thats being called a hustler lol

PaulieB
03-31-2011, 10:18 PM
I am actually shocked at the results to the poll and responses to the thread. I guess I am throwing myself out there for criticism, but I have always hidden my true speed whenever I am out at a new place. I guess it technically is hustling and not gambling, I see the point there, and the difference between the two. I just never thought of playing ALL OUT at a new bar, new hall, new anywhere. Roping people in, making them think they can win the next game/next set/whatever ... it's always been part of my playing pool. Heck, I think I learned that theory before I learned about LD shafts!

A couple of decades ago, I learned to play "just enough to keep 'em coming back", and I guess I would have to say I have problems playing any other way. I actually notice myself playing worse against weaker players and playing better against people that can give me a challenge.

If anything, I'm impressed at the fact that so many people on this forum are straight up shooters, not trying to hide their abilities. Grats to all of you!

risky biz
03-31-2011, 11:43 PM
Hiding your true speed in a money game isn't gambling. It's hustling.

Same as poker. That's why I always turn my hole cards face up in Hold'em before the action. Otherwise, how would everyone else know how strong my hand is?

chris_25
04-01-2011, 01:06 AM
(I actually notice myself playing worse against weaker players and playing better against people that can give me a challenge.)

I am the same. My guess is thats how all money players play. I would all most bet that half the guys have sand bagged or played half speed before....

catpool9
04-01-2011, 01:12 AM
This poll explains a lot to me, now I know why there is no action. everybody knows how everybody plays. And since all the information is there it makes no sence to donate to better players.


Not hiding speed is like playing poker with the cards all turned face up. Who's gonna bet on that?


You don't get it brotha, Pool n Poke are two different animals, just because you may play a 10 speed in pool don't mean your gonna play that way today, why?, well, lot's of reason's, here I'll give you one,

You ain't felling so good today, your opponent Is, well you miss a few balls and he does not know of you, well, Opponent says to self, I'm gonna beat this guy, he has given me some opportunites to win , and proceeds to run out on your ASS, regardless of your High Class Stats, thats the way is goes......you get so far behind you can't overcome it...

beyond rasing the bet so high to win a single match or game your FRACKERD!


David Harcrow


I'm not playing You, I'm playing what is before me, the table......

That is Right!:cool:

jbravo2984
04-01-2011, 01:14 AM
An analogy:
When I'm playing poker, I want the worst players in the world at my table. I'm not trying to win a trophy for being the best player, I'm just trying to win the cash! That is, after all, the point.

I'll take as many balls and/or games on the wire as you want to give me. If I end up going home with your money, I'll still feel good about it. Just my opinion.

HA! Troy since when do you gamble? When are we gonna play some? We don't even have to bet $$$ we can play for cues! :) I have a nice Hill you may want to even play me for ;)

catpool9
04-01-2011, 01:29 AM
(I actually notice myself playing worse against weaker players and playing better against people that can give me a challenge.)

I am the same. My guess is thats how all money players play. I would all most bet that half the guys have sand bagged or played half speed before....

You see the light, always play 1/2 ball better than your opponent, and you'll win 95% of the time!


David Harcrow

catpool9
04-01-2011, 01:53 AM
im like you, a slow starter. i never hide my speed because i never look for action but i do take offers of action occasionally. i dont give weight and dont ask for any. whenever i do accept action i always let them up the ante.

it never ceases to amaze me that they are looking for action and raising the bets but yet after i have got a couple beers in me and get loosened up that im the one thats being called a hustler lol


The trick to playing pool is this:.......When someone see's you missing a few shot's for the first time, & never have seen you play, this is the ( impression they have of you ) for a Long, Long TIME!, even tho your playing skills are much better, ...but your a slow starter!...:cool:

lorider: Well like you said,... We are slow starters, and as we get going we get to making balls , and the Opponent dosen't really 'SEE' that in their MIND, so the game is ON, and We Win!!!, case closed........


Only until some "ASS" Beaten' does an Opponent see the better play,.....But... just miss a few balls and they will fall back in line!!!!!!..;)


David Harcrow