PDA

View Full Version : My first APA 8-ball night - lesson learned


donuteric
05-25-2011, 09:07 AM
This is my last summer here, so I thought I'd try out their 8-ball league format before I head home for some new and exciting adventures. The other team put up a SL3 against me, so the race was 6-2. She's a new player, so I assume the strategy was to have her lost, and dropped down to a 2.

I won the lag. Broke an ugly rack, back and forth a bit, and I ended up winning the first rack. She couldn't really pot 2-3 balls in an inning. I was shooting good; my confidence was raised; and that was where all good things came to an end.

I broke the 2nd rack, ran till the 8, but had to jump half ball to make the 8 to the corner. Since it was a half ball jump, I decided not to go back and grab my break stick, and just use my player. CB just caught the edge of the ball the it was jumping over; it went airborne, caught the bad part of the rail and bounced off the table. I only realized I lost the rack after noticing all the weird sighs and looks from both teams.

She broke the 3rd rack. Dried, clustered, but low balls looked pretty good. It wasn't so much a runnable rack, but I managed to get to the end with a tough 8 to pot. Didn't hit it hard at all, the 8-ball caught the points twice, and kicked into another ball, then went in to the unintended pocket. So I lost again.

Ouch! :( But lesson learned, I could've just gave her ball in band both times and I was still able to return to the table. Instead, knowing I was playing an extremely weak player, my ego kicked in, gear switched into showing-off mode, and I was punished.

Do you guys have any self-realization loses in your career?

ITguy
05-25-2011, 09:19 AM
Very good reminder.

Thanks
Jim

whammo57
05-25-2011, 09:26 AM
You can't use your break stick to jump in an APA league. You must use the stick you regularly shoot with. And no jump sticks.

Kim

McKinneyMiner
05-25-2011, 09:27 AM
I have more losses in APA to lower skill lever players than any other, and for the exact reason you mention...

I NEVER scratch on the 8, knock it in out of turn, etc. against higher level players but I bet I have done it 5 times against the weaker ones...

For some reason I don't have the killer instinct to bury the lesser players...

Cory in DC
05-25-2011, 09:28 AM
This is my last summer here, so I thought I'd try out their 8-ball league format before I head home for some new and exciting adventures. The other team put up a SL3 against me, so the race was 6-2. She's a new player, so I assume the strategy was to have her lost, and dropped down to a 2.

I won the lag. Broke an ugly rack, back and forth a bit, and I ended up winning the first rack. She couldn't really pot 2-3 balls in an inning. I was shooting good; my confidence was raised; and that was where all good things came to an end.

I broke the 2nd rack, ran till the 8, but had to jump half ball to make the 8 to the corner. Since it was a half ball jump, I decided not to go back and grab my break stick, and just use my player. CB just caught the edge of the ball the it was jumping over; it went airborne, caught the bad part of the rail and bounced off the table. I only realized I lost the rack after noticing all the weird sighs and looks from both teams.

She broke the 3rd rack. Dried, clustered, but low balls looked pretty good. It wasn't so much a runnable rack, but I managed to get to the end with a tough 8 to pot. Didn't hit it hard at all, the 8-ball caught the points twice, and kicked into another ball, then went in to the unintended pocket. So I lost again.

Ouch! :( But lesson learned, I could've just gave her ball in band both times and I was still able to return to the table. Instead, knowing I was playing an extremely weak player, my ego kicked in, gear switched into showing-off mode, and I was punished.

Do you guys have any self-realization loses in your career?

Why did you start out as a 7? I realize you can (and should!) start yourself at a higher level if your skill is high. That said, and I hope I don't sound like a jerk, you had two failed run-outs and in the second game you over-hit what sounds like a tough shot. And you didn't play safes to get yourself out of trouble.

Anyway, lesson learned. 6-2 can get away from you pretty quick if you make an early mistake. In lopsided matches, I tend to play pretty tight the first 2-3 games; then if I've swept those, the opponent is usually a little dejected and I can loosen up a bit.

donuteric
05-25-2011, 09:34 AM
I understand the rules state a player cannot switch cue within rack, but most matches I play the players are very understanding. Most of them are satisfied as long as you're jumping with a full stick. When I do so, I normally ask if my opponent is OK. If not, I'll either find another route or attempt to jump with my player. Half a ball isn't difficult at all! Oh well...

I started out as a 7 because of my 9-ball rank.

bboxgrinder
05-25-2011, 09:35 AM
The good thing you realise what you did wrong lol. Those low handicaps don't get much respect from the better players in that format much, at least where I'm from, BUT anyone giving up big weight had better recognise because that HC system is there for a reason and that is to even the feild. Just a couple blunders and it can be over fast.

BrokeStroke
05-25-2011, 09:59 AM
Last time I played another SL7, I beat him 5-0 in 5 innings. I usually end up playing SL3s and SL4s, and I'm either playing 6-2 or 5-2 and usually end up winning some matches in 20 innings. Or I lose some matches in 20 innings.

Lower SL players have the advantage of having no cue ball control, so when they miss, NOBODY has a shot.

bboxgrinder
05-25-2011, 10:03 AM
Last time I played another SL7, I beat him 5-0 in 5 innings. I usually end up playing SL3s and SL4s, and I'm either playing 6-2 or 5-2 and usually end up winning some matches in 20 innings. Or I lose some matches in 20 innings.

Lower SL players have the advantage of having no cue ball control, so when they miss, NOBODY has a shot.

HaHaHa your are absolutly correct. The funny thing there is after they do it when they look up and say I been practicing those safties. :angry:

Vahony
05-25-2011, 10:05 AM
My matches against lower players usually last a lot of innings. I play really tight just so I don't let them win. If I notice the person is taking a lot of time outs then I make sure I make them burn their time outs early by playing safes. Once I get in that mode the other player usually just gets fed up and starts smacking balls around or handing me the cue ball. Remember in 8-ball play your safes early not when you're down to 1 or 2 balls left.

Eric.
05-25-2011, 10:24 AM
Why did you start out as a 7? I realize you can (and should!) start yourself at a higher level if your skill is high. That said, and I hope I don't sound like a jerk, you had two failed run-outs and in the second game you over-hit what sounds like a tough shot. And you didn't play safes to get yourself out of trouble.


I was thinking the same thing.

Maybe the OP was just goofing around i.e. the match really didn't matter that much?

I actually had a similar thing happen to me, in a league match. Playing 8 ball, I lost 2-2 (she only needed 2 games to win), but get this...my opponent only made ONE BALL. Rack 1-I break & run, Rack 2- I break, shoot a ball or two and trade safes, then I run out to the 8, get a thin angle, go for it anyway and scratch 2 rails in the opposite side pocket. Rack 3-she breaks dry, I run out. Rack 4- I break, run down to the 8, have to thin/spin/cut the 8 off the end rail, int othe corner, scratch in corner pocket at the other end of the table.

Granted, the match "didn't matter", so I was freestroking. :o


Eric

donuteric
05-25-2011, 10:29 AM
I was thinking the same thing.

Maybe the OP was just goofing around i.e. the match really didn't matter that much?

I actually had a similar thing happen to me, in a league match. Playing 8 ball, I lost 2-2 (she only needed 2 games to win), but get this...my opponent only made ONE BALL. Rack 1-I break & run, Rack 2- I break, shoot a ball or two and trade safes, then I run out to the 8, get a thin angle, go for it anyway and scratch 2 rails in the opposite side pocket. Rack 3-she breaks dry, I run out. Rack 4- I break, run down to the 8, have to thin/spin/cut the 8 off the end rail, int othe corner, scratch in corner pocket at the other end of the table.

Granted, the match "didn't matter", so I was freestroking. :o


Eric

I started out as a 7 because I have an established rank from playing the 9-ball league in the past few years.

I learned my lesson alright, but I also proved that a player CAN in fact win the whole set for sitting on his/her chair. :thumbup:

ndgreen
05-25-2011, 12:50 PM
You can't use your break stick to jump in an APA league. You must use the stick you regularly shoot with. And no jump sticks.

Kim

Actually at last years NTC event, we were told that you could switch to your break stick as long as it did not have a phenolic tip. YMMV..

CK6Speed
05-25-2011, 01:16 PM
I don't like being a SL7 in APA. I'm not that good of a player but I'm ranked a 7 and its tough. Almost anyone you play only needs to win 2 or 3 games to your 5-7 games. Normally I try and match up against a SL5-7 because at least you don't have to give up too much weight if at all. The worse one is when the other team puts up a throwaway SL2 on you. One mistake like an early 8, scratch on 8, or just getting unlucky and they are on the hill and you still have to win 7 games. I don't take it too seriously though as APA is all for fun anyway.

Winston846
05-25-2011, 01:24 PM
I learned my lesson alright, but I also proved that a player CAN in fact win the whole set for sitting on his/her chair. :thumbup:

I once handed an opponent a win in his chair, too. I once carelessly gave a 4 (5-2 race) a game and then when it was hill/hill (4-1) I broke in the 8 and scratched for the loss. :angry:

Then I had to sit there while the guy's practically doing cart-wheels yelling, "I beat a 7! I beat a 7!". And for the rest of the session I had to hear the guy's father saying, "He's not that good... my kid beat him." :o

Oh well, life in the APA.


Lower SL players have the advantage of having no cue ball control, so when they miss, NOBODY has a shot.

TAP! TAP! TAP!

hang-the-9
05-25-2011, 02:05 PM
I once handed an opponent a win in his chair, too. I once carelessly gave a 4 (5-2 race) a game and then when it was hill/hill (4-1) I broke in the 8 and scratched for the loss. :angry:

Then I had to sit there while the guy's practically doing cart-wheels yelling, "I beat a 7! I beat a 7!". And for the rest of the session I had to hear the guy's father saying, "He's not that good... my kid beat him." :o

Oh well, life in the APA.




TAP! TAP! TAP!

I've noticed that the true low level players really don't know how bad they are, or how much better the good players play. They'd miss easy shots and then act like it was a once in a year occurance, and of course next time they shoot and miss an easy shot, then it's another "oh wow how can I miss that" all over again.

I've lost 9-ball sets with the other player never even making a real shot. Race to 2, break and run to the 9, get a sharp cut, and scratch in the side. 1-0. Guy then breaks the 9 in. See ya. Can't say anything about the APA handicaps though, I avoid bar tables and the APA more than I do herpes.

TheNewSharkster
05-25-2011, 02:58 PM
I've noticed that the true low level players really don't know how bad they are, or how much better the good players play. They'd miss easy shots and then act like it was a once in a year occurance, and of course next time they shoot and miss an easy shot, then it's another "oh wow how can I miss that" all over again.

I've lost 9-ball sets with the other player never even making a real shot. Race to 2, break and run to the 9, get a sharp cut, and scratch in the side. 1-0. Guy then breaks the 9 in. See ya. Can't say anything about the APA handicaps though, I avoid bar tables and the APA more than I do herpes.

APA 9ball uses a point system. Each ball is worth 1 point and the 9 is worht 2 points. So in the example you gave you would be ahead 8-2 after the first game even though you never made the 9ball. I actually like this variation of 9ball. Like rotation and straight pool mixed together.

OneIron
05-25-2011, 03:30 PM
Actually at last years NTC event, we were told that you could switch to your break stick as long as it did not have a phenolic tip. YMMV..

Rules are very "fluid" in the APA. Last time I played years ago, I was told you could jump with your break cue as long as you didn't break it down. But that can change from match to match based on who you're playing and where you're playing. I spoke to the APA National Organization last year and they said they had no plans to restrict the use of phenolic tips.

TheNewSharkster
05-25-2011, 03:40 PM
Rules are very "fluid" in the APA. Last time I played years ago, I was told you could jump with your break cue as long as you didn't break it down. But that can change from match to match based on who you're playing and where you're playing. I spoke to the APA National Organization last year and they said they had no plans to restrict the use of phenolic tips.


APA rules are very clear on this. This is straight from the manual-

http://www.poolplayers.com/tmanual.pdf
Massé and jump shots are legal, when executed properly (see MASSÉ
SHOTS and JUMP SHOTS described in Definitions), but such shots
must be attempted using your regular shooting cue (see REGULAR
SHOOTING CUE described in Definitions). Players are not allowed to
break down their cues or switch to specialty cues (such as cues designed
for jumping and/or breaking) to attempt massé or jump shots.

If a league allows this they are breaking the rules unless they have some sort of bylaw in place that specifically says that you can jump with your break/jump cue.

donuteric
05-25-2011, 03:55 PM
I believe at the nationals event these rules are strictly enforced, not just by the judges but also by the opponents. Whereas when the match setting in at a local bar, my experience is that most players are quite flexible with the rules. There are many times when I face against SL7+ in a 9-ball match, I often ask my opponent if they wanted to play push shot after the break and consider that as a safety play. Despite the rules, most higher ranked players prefer to take a little bit of luck out of the format. We know when we have an unlucky break, and hand our opponents ball in hand on a barbox with open layout, we'll be sitting and watching.

OneIron
05-25-2011, 04:32 PM
APA rules are very clear on this. This is straight from the manual-

http://www.poolplayers.com/tmanual.pdf
Massé and jump shots are legal, when executed properly (see MASSÉ
SHOTS and JUMP SHOTS described in Definitions), but such shots
must be attempted using your regular shooting cue (see REGULAR
SHOOTING CUE described in Definitions). Players are not allowed to
break down their cues or switch to specialty cues (such as cues designed
for jumping and/or breaking) to attempt massé or jump shots.

If a league allows this they are breaking the rules unless they have some sort of bylaw in place that specifically says that you can jump with your break/jump cue.

Team manual says that local by laws can contradict national rules. That sort of makes my point that the rules are fluid. Why would the APA allow LO's to institute their own rules?

TheNewSharkster
05-25-2011, 04:43 PM
Team manual says that local by laws can contradict national rules. That sort of makes my point that the rules are fluid. Why would the APA allow LO's to institute their own rules?


Every league can have bylaws but in my exp they try not to stray far from the national rules. I wouldn't say its fluid. You can either use your break cue or not. Probably in most cases you cannot. I would be interested to see the bylaws from a APA league that allows it.

As a reference here are the bylaws for the king county APA-
http://kingcounty.apaleagues.com/Uploads/kingcounty/Rules%20&%20Bylaws/Bylaws%20May%202011.pdf

OneIron
05-25-2011, 06:20 PM
Every league can have bylaws but in my exp they try not to stray far from the national rules. I wouldn't say its fluid. You can either use your break cue or not. Probably in most cases you cannot. I would be interested to see the bylaws from a APA league that allows it.

As a reference here are the bylaws for the king county APA-
http://kingcounty.apaleagues.com/Uploads/kingcounty/Rules%20&%20Bylaws/Bylaws%20May%202011.pdf

I played APA for probably 10 years and never saw the by-laws. League reps would reference a rule in the by-laws but I could never get a copy. IMHO, since the APA is a national organization, everyone should play under the same rules. It's confusing to play by one set of rules locally, another in the Regionals, and still another in the Nationals.

I really like the APA format but I would like to see more consistency.

TheNewSharkster
05-26-2011, 08:21 AM
I played APA for probably 10 years and never saw the by-laws. League reps would reference a rule in the by-laws but I could never get a copy. IMHO, since the APA is a national organization, everyone should play under the same rules. It's confusing to play by one set of rules locally, another in the Regionals, and still another in the Nationals.

I really like the APA format but I would like to see more consistency.


I sometimes wonder if the national APA office sets restrictions for the type of bylaws that can be used. In the league I play in the actual rules of 8ball and 9ball arent really changed.

It sounds to me that you were playing in a poorly organized APA league. We have the bylaws posted at the bar and they are sent to each team at the start of each season.

jdxprs
05-26-2011, 08:57 AM
one of the hardest things to do is to get players on your team to recognize their opponents capabilities.

donuteric
05-26-2011, 11:10 AM
The responses prompted me to read my local bylaws, and found out that I can in fact change sticks during play. In fact, I can even break down the cue and only use the shaft alone for jumping purposes! No one has even told me that.

Item 23 at:

http://ripoolplayers.com/common/pdf/bylaws.pdf

TheNewSharkster
05-26-2011, 11:19 AM
The responses prompted me to read my local bylaws, and found out that I can in fact change sticks during play. In fact, I can even break down the cue and only use the shaft alone for jumping purposes! No one has even told me that.

Item 23 at:

http://ripoolplayers.com/common/pdf/bylaws.pdf



Now if they would just let us push out in 9ball! Thats the one I am most interested in. I don't really care about jump shots because I can barely clear a cube of chalk :p

donuteric
05-26-2011, 11:24 AM
Now if they would just let us push out in 9ball! Thats the one I am most interested in. I don't really care about jump shots because I can barely clear a cube of chalk :p

Just ask before the match. I did, and my experience has ben largely positive!

bboxgrinder
05-26-2011, 11:28 AM
Here is a local bylaw for you guys. Gonna throw it out here to see if this is used anywhere else. I don't currently play APA but have several friends that do. The previous 2 sessions the team that won their local division has been told if they do not participate in the next session they do not get paid the money for winning the local playoffs. The session before this one the team that won was going to take a session off & did not get paid as they said screw it and quit. This previous session the winning team was going to take the summer off due to seasonal work in the area and was told the same thing. That team decided to stay so to get paid, a whopping $70 a man.

I have NEVER heard of this or seen any type of writing in the rules whether local or national when I did use to play. Is it just my thoughts here or does this sound a tad bit forcing, manipulating, or simply WRONG.

BrokeStroke
05-26-2011, 12:17 PM
There is something similar to that around here. If you win your division, then you qualify for regionals. If your team doesnt return for the next session, you automatically forfeit your qualification. Also, if your team does return for the next session, and you dont keep your winning percentage above 50%, you forfeit your qualification.
My take behind this entire thing is that the LO doesnt want to miss one penny of that money coming in, and he wants to make it very hard for a team from his division to go to Vegas.

justadub
05-26-2011, 01:32 PM
There is something similar to that around here. If you win your division, then you qualify for regionals. If your team doesnt return for the next session, you automatically forfeit your qualification. Also, if your team does return for the next session, and you dont keep your winning percentage above 50%, you forfeit your qualification.
My take behind this entire thing is that the LO doesnt want to miss one penny of that money coming in, and he wants to make it very hard for a team from his division to go to Vegas.

We have some similar restrictions here, as well, and I understand where you're coming from. And I agree with you, the LO's are most certainly interested in maximizing their income, and to an extent there isn't anything wrong with that.

I can understand the LO expecting a team that has is eligible for their Vegas-qualifier to continue playing. The LO is going to be paying to send them to Las Vegas, they ought to continue in the league. It is also an anti-sandbagging issue, as well. If you don't play, you can't "go up", can you?

The idea about keeping the team winning percentage above 50% after you've qualified is also to limit sandbagging, i.e. throwing your matches once you're qualified, to keep your handicaps down. Our bylaws state that a team "can" be disqualified if that happens, meaning it isn't automatic, and that the LO has some recourse if he truly believes the team is dumping. Yet if they are having a bad run, he doesn't have to automatically forfeit them. Last year my team was close to our LO having to make a call on us, but we ended up just over 50%. Trying all the while, mind you. (If you don't believe that, I can tell you we just finished tied for 1st place this last session, while we were already qualified. We certainly do "try", all the time.)

It is interesting to see and hear some of the different bylaws throughout the country. Ours don't seem to be too far off from the standard National rule set, fortunately. That area that allows jump cues... that's a drastic change from national. As I said, interesting...

donuteric
05-27-2011, 07:50 AM
It is interesting to see and hear some of the different bylaws throughout the country. Ours don't seem to be too far off from the standard National rule set, fortunately. That area that allows jump cues... that's a drastic change from national. As I said, interesting...

I was as surprised as you when this thread prompted me to read the bylaws. Jump cues ain't allowed, but players can break down their cue and use the shaft to jump.

OneIron
05-27-2011, 08:06 AM
I was as surprised as you when this thread prompted me to read the bylaws. Jump cues ain't allowed, but players can break down their cue and use the shaft to jump.

That's the problem. Every LO has their own set of rules and they don't necessarily follow the national rules very closely. Seems to me like the APA would want a consistent set of rules across the entire organization. Particularly since players from different areas may play each other in national events. The by-laws could conceivably affect handicap calculations. They certainly confuse many of the players as evidenced by this thread.

BrokeStroke
05-27-2011, 09:05 AM
This makes me wonder how the APA can have a fair handicap on the national level. Not just because the by-laws vary from place to place, but because handicaps can be influenced by them.

The division I shoot in has so many weak players that I am positive that any of our SL5 players would lose to a SL3 from any other area/state. And I mean an EVEN race.
I would be worried that if my team were ever able to play in a national event, we would be crushed due to the fact that the higher SL players we have are so weak.

[QUOTE]That's the problem. Every LO has their own set of rules and they don't necessarily follow the national rules very closely. Seems to me like the APA would want a consistent set of rules across the entire organization. Particularly since players from different areas may play each other in national events. The by-laws could conceivably affect handicap calculations.[QUOTE]

justadub
05-27-2011, 09:20 AM
The real bottom line is that someone from every team truly should read the official Team Manual, especially if they are going to Nationals.

Truly, everyone should read them. But at least one person on the team (one would think the captain might have a bit of self-interest) most certainly should have read it, as well as the local bylaws. I am that guy on our team (not the captain, sigh) and if we are fotunate enough to qualify for Nationals I will definitely be going back through the manual, with far more scrutiny.

I can't imagine an LO not being willing to provide a copy of the bylaws to any of their players, as well as a rule book. Our LO sends out a copy to every team, every session. Standard operating procedure. The National rules are available on the APA website in PDF form, as well.

We all do have a bit of responsibility here, folks. The good news is that most of the rules are pretty much standard, and most don't differ too far from what everybody else plays. So when you break it down to the specific differences, it's much easier to digest, and use when talking to other folks about considering APA, or if just playing by APA rules for whatever reason. Some places around here hold local tourneys and use that rule set, since the majority of players there play APA and it's easier than trying to sort out the differences. Where I play, we don't do that, so it's become customary to be able to tell someone that the differences before the tourney starts.

TheNewSharkster
05-27-2011, 09:24 AM
That's the problem. Every LO has their own set of rules and they don't necessarily follow the national rules very closely. Seems to me like the APA would want a consistent set of rules across the entire organization. Particularly since players from different areas may play each other in national events. The by-laws could conceivably affect handicap calculations. They certainly confuse many of the players as evidenced by this thread.



I think you are making it sound worse than it is. For the most part the rules are the same with some small changes (i.e. breaking you stick down and using the short end to jump).

If people who play APA are confused that is on the LO for not properly communicating the bylaws or the player for not taking the time and effort to read and understand the rules.

APA Operator
05-27-2011, 09:45 AM
There is something similar to that around here. If you win your division, then you qualify for regionals. If your team doesnt return for the next session, you automatically forfeit your qualification. Also, if your team does return for the next session, and you dont keep your winning percentage above 50%, you forfeit your qualification.
My take behind this entire thing is that the LO doesnt want to miss one penny of that money coming in, and he wants to make it very hard for a team from his division to go to Vegas.

Are you sure it's your winning percentage, and not the top half of your division? That's the way it is in the team manual. The manual also says "subject to heavy scrutiny and/or loss of eligibility."

Justadub was pretty much right on, although (at least in my area) it's not about money at all. If your team qualifies for my LTC, I want to keep tabs on the players. This rule forces the teams to remain visible and to try. Without it, teams would (and they used to) qualify in the Summer, take nine months off to practice, and come back with much improved abilities. It can take a few rounds in the LTC for that to show, by which time it can be too late, at least for the teams that have already been cheated.

As far as prize money, you should get paid what you won, whether you stick around for subsequent sessions or not. Anyone who doesn't should contact the national office, as this is not an acceptable practice for league operators. Now, if what you won was travel assistance and you decide not to travel, that's a different story.

Roadking
05-27-2011, 10:05 AM
In the division I play in if you win either the summer or fall session your team has too play or you'll loose your spot too play for Vegas.(we get are prize $$$ if we play next session or not). If we don't finish in the top 50% the next session are team doesn't get too draw for a wild card spot for playoffs.
The more times a team qualifies for the Vegas tourn. Theirs a chance that team could recieve a bye the 1st night of the tourn.
The team that wins the trip to Vegas has too play inthe summer session. Also in order too get your Vegas $$$ you have too go to Vegas.

In my league you can jump with your playing cue(no jumpers or broken down cues)
And I believe BrokeStroke is rite in that your handicap is influenced by the competition in your division.(the more better players in your division,the less your gonna win = lower handicap). And different bylaws for jumping a ball.

Winston846
05-27-2011, 10:06 AM
I avoid bar tables and the APA more than I do herpes.

I don't play in the APA anymore, either. But I still do play on barboxes in an independently run, no-handicap league. Even though there's no handicaps, it works because the league is broken into divisions by team strength, so regardless of your team strength, you're still playing to win your division.

Spider1
05-27-2011, 11:07 AM
The previous 2 sessions the team that won their local division has been told if they do not participate in the next session they do not get paid the money for winning the local playoffs.

I have NEVER heard of this or seen any type of writing in the rules whether local or national when I did use to play. Is it just my thoughts here or does this sound a tad bit forcing, manipulating, or simply WRONG.

Wow, that is messed up.

I can understand the part about going to nationals, but not being paid money you already earned by winning in the local playoffs? That is absurd.

Sometimes for whatever reason (scheduling, family stuff, work, etc) a team might need to take a session off, and to penalize them by stealing money they already earned....wow. I would not be back!

BrokeStroke
05-27-2011, 12:52 PM
Are you sure it's your winning percentage, and not the top half of your division? That's the way it is in the team manual. The manual also says "subject to heavy scrutiny and/or loss of eligibility."



I will elaborate a little. And this was told to me by 2 league reps and the LO.

If we wanted to take the summer off (and that is the short session), we would forfeit our shot at regionals. It didnt matter that we were coming back for the fall session, and the fact that 3 of our 6 players were going to shoot for other teams.
Second, our team would have to stay in the top half of the division for the remainder of the YEAR, not just the following session, or we would lose our eligibility.

I doubt that the 3 of us that were taking the session off were going to go out and practice to the point of becoming unstoppable. (Im already a 7 so i cant go up. One woman is a 3 and her kid is starting school at the end of summer. The last guy just doesnt want to shoot.) The other 3 guys were going to shoot for another team, but we were told to either keep the team or lose our shot.

Honestly, its not that big a deal to me and 2 others on the team, but it is to the remaining teammates. One for all, and all for Vegas.
Its just ashame that there are no other leagues (TAP, VNEA, BCAPL) around here to give our LO some competition so he knows, in order to keep people, he should part with some of that 'hard-earned' money.

justadub
05-27-2011, 12:58 PM
I will elaborate a little. And this was told to me by 2 league reps and the LO.

If we wanted to take the summer off (and that is the short session), we would forfeit our shot at regionals. It didnt matter that we were coming back for the fall session, and the fact that 3 of our 6 players were going to shoot for other teams.
Second, our team would have to stay in the top half of the division for the remainder of the YEAR, not just the following session, or we would lose our eligibility.

I doubt that the 3 of us that were taking the session off were going to go out and practice to the point of becoming unstoppable. (Im already a 7 so i cant go up. One woman is a 3 and her kid is starting school at the end of summer. The last guy just doesnt want to shoot.) The other 3 guys were going to shoot for another team, but we were told to either keep the team or lose our shot.

Honestly, its not that big a deal to me and 2 others on the team, but it is to the remaining teammates. One for all, and all for Vegas.
Its just ashame that there are no other leagues (TAP, VNEA, BCAPL) around here to give our LO some competition so he knows, in order to keep people, he should part with some of that 'hard-earned' money.

Well, if there were enough people to keep the team going, it shouldn't matter if three of you dropped out for the session. You can add/drop every session. I don't know if it's a local rule or a national rule but as long as there are 4 people from the team that qualified, you can add/drop and still keep the spot in the qualifing tourney. If your LO still has a team playing, it shouldn't matter which players are playing, again so long as enough originals are there for the regional aspect of it.

Maybe that is a local thing. Too lazy to look it up, but I know that's how it's done here. Happened to us last year.