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luv1pocket
05-25-2011, 10:28 PM
Does anybody know the email address for Predator for repairs. I bought a 3X5 black case from them and the button on the lid that closes it kept getting loose and then just came off. I sent an email from their website but it came back delayed and then failed.
Someone then told me I had to pay for the repair. I assumed since all their shafts are covered under warranty this would be also. The should probably use something else to help close the lid on the case as eventually the button will come off.

JB Cases
05-25-2011, 11:20 PM
Does anybody know the email address for Predator for repairs. I bought a 3X5 black case from them and the button on the lid that closes it kept getting loose and then just came off. I sent an email from their website but it came back delayed and then failed.
Someone then told me I had to pay for the repair. I assumed since all their shafts are covered under warranty this would be also. The should probably use something else to help close the lid on the case as eventually the button will come off.

Customer Service http://www.predatorcues.com/predator_cues_customer_service.php

customerservice@predatorcues.com

This design with an ultra-heavy case is too much for the single snap. And the way the case is made it's very difficult for the female part of the snap to be replaced.

To repair this one the lid will have to be partially taken apart so that the snap can be installed and then re-sewn.

I hope Predator didn't tell you that you have to pay for this repair. This is the fault of a very bad design and these latches will ALL fail eventually in a far shorter time than they should due to the stress being put on them when the case is held by the lid. Now, some people will maintain that since there is no top handle then no one should be holding this case by the lid, but that completely ignores the way people use their cases. And Predator should be well experienced with how people really use their cases.

This is what I got away from snaps as much as possible on our cases. I invented the puzzle latchtm to help solve the problem of all the weight of a cue case being on one focal point.

http://www.jbcases.com/lids-latches.html

http://www.jbcases.com/cases/elements/elements-f-lid.jpg

So far after about 1.5 years of doing these Puzzle Latches none have broken. (Fingers Crossed).

Rich93
05-26-2011, 04:51 AM
Customer Service http://www.predatorcues.com/predator_cues_customer_service.php

customerservice@predatorcues.com

This design with an ultra-heavy case is too much for the single snap. And the way the case is made it's very difficult for the female part of the snap to be replaced.

To repair this one the lid will have to be partially taken apart so that the snap can be installed and then re-sewn.

I hope Predator didn't tell you that you have to pay for this repair. This is the fault of a very bad design and these latches will ALL fail eventually in a far shorter time than they should due to the stress being put on them when the case is held by the lid. Now, some people will maintain that since there is no top handle then no one should be holding this case by the lid, but that completely ignores the way people use their cases. And Predator should be well experienced with how people really use their cases.

This is what I got away from snaps as much as possible on our cases. I invented the puzzle latchtm to help solve the problem of all the weight of a cue case being on one focal point.

http://www.jbcases.com/lids-latches.html

http://www.jbcases.com/cases/elements/elements-f-lid.jpg

So far after about 1.5 years of doing these Puzzle Latches none have broken. (Fingers Crossed).

The puzzle latch is great. After almost a year mine is still good as new.

luv1pocket
05-26-2011, 11:03 PM
I tried that email address twice it came back saying it was slow then said it couldn't be delivered. I guess I'll have to give them a call now.
I talked to someone in Vegas and they said I would have to pay for the repair. I completely agree with you about the snap. I didn't put too much pressure on the lid but every time I opened it there was pressure put on it because of the design.
I would have thought the case would've been designed a little stronger as I had to pay around $250 for it.
I hope they take care of it.
Maybe next time I'll look at your cases.
Thanks

Customer Service http://www.predatorcues.com/predator_cues_customer_service.php

customerservice@predatorcues.com

This design with an ultra-heavy case is too much for the single snap. And the way the case is made it's very difficult for the female part of the snap to be replaced.

To repair this one the lid will have to be partially taken apart so that the snap can be installed and then re-sewn.

I hope Predator didn't tell you that you have to pay for this repair. This is the fault of a very bad design and these latches will ALL fail eventually in a far shorter time than they should due to the stress being put on them when the case is held by the lid. Now, some people will maintain that since there is no top handle then no one should be holding this case by the lid, but that completely ignores the way people use their cases. And Predator should be well experienced with how people really use their cases.

This is what I got away from snaps as much as possible on our cases. I invented the puzzle latchtm to help solve the problem of all the weight of a cue case being on one focal point.

http://www.jbcases.com/lids-latches.html

http://www.jbcases.com/cases/elements/elements-f-lid.jpg

So far after about 1.5 years of doing these Puzzle Latches none have broken. (Fingers Crossed).

JB Cases
05-26-2011, 11:36 PM
I tried that email address twice it came back saying it was slow then said it couldn't be delivered. I guess I'll have to give them a call now.
I talked to someone in Vegas and they said I would have to pay for the repair. I completely agree with you about the snap. I didn't put too much pressure on the lid but every time I opened it there was pressure put on it because of the design.
I would have thought the case would've been designed a little stronger as I had to pay around $250 for it.
I hope they take care of it.
Maybe next time I'll look at your cases.
Thanks

I can tell you for a fact that a lot of the Predator Blak cases with this latch have broken in the same way.

When I owned Instroke I used a latch that was way too weak for the weight of a cue case. I had to replace dozens of them over the years and I never charged anyone whose case was less than a year old. And in many situations I didn't charge them even if it was more than a year old.

Eventually Instroke invented the "Diamond" latch which is the strongest metal turnbuckle latch in the industry. With the introduction of this latch the incidence of latch failure on Instroke cases decreased dramatically. Now they offer an upgrade for any older Instrokes to this latch for $25 which is a great deal.

I plan to make a version of that latch because the leather Puzzle Latch we do is simply too expensive for us to make for production cases.

Predator SHOULD take care of this for free. They know it's a design problem. I can tell you that here in China there is a Fury case that I had nothing to do with designing that is a knockoff of the Predator Blak case as far as construction goes. But they improved the latch area by installing a magnetic latch with an extra retainer. So now it works great and there is virtually no chance for it to break. The folks who make the Predator Blak case did not make this Fury case.

pYco
05-26-2011, 11:49 PM
I have the same problem with a Predator 2x4 Sport case...I thought it was bad luck. Please let us know how they manage this issue.

ContinentalGT
05-26-2011, 11:59 PM
How about the latch on the Justis cases? What kind of latch do they use and is it any good?

Jack Justis
05-27-2011, 01:29 PM
How about the latch on the Justis cases? What kind of latch do they use and is it any good?

We use a high quality solid brass #20 line snap and have not had one failure to our knowlegde ove the past 15 years. This is also enhanced by our lid design which totally eleminates stress on the leather and is being copied by others in the industry.

We had a few failures of the smaller snaps used on the handle cover, but that was before we started using the proper tool that gives a perfect set of the button into the socket every time.

Our cases are built to last a lifetime.

JB Cases
05-27-2011, 05:12 PM
How about the latch on the Justis cases? What kind of latch do they use and is it any good?

Justis has replied that he uses the snap. He makes a very good point about the snaps needing to be seated properly.

I had one customer who told me a story of his friend who bought a case that cost $2300 made with elephant. In this case he carried cues worth more than $4500. This case also had a single snap closure setup similar to what Justis shows above. For whatever reason the snap would not stay closed and the case owner was constantly checking it to make sure the lid was secure. This particular case didn't have a snug fit for the cues so if the case would be inverted the cues would all fall out if the lid were open.

One night in the middle of winter my customer and his friend were leaving the pool room and the parking lot was very icy. The guy with the expensive case full of expensive cues slips on the ice and his case lid opens and the cues go sliding across the parking lot and into a fresh snowbank. So my customer and his friend are hunting around in the snow for a $4500 cue all because the single snap on a $2300 cue case has failed.

This is not the necessarily the fault of the case maker. He had installed a piece of hardware that he felt confident in. But he didn't make that hardware and it's a single point of failure that causes the case to be very insecure when it does fail.

What we do is try to reduce the stress on the latches in a couple important ways.

Our lids for example are hand fitted to each case. They aren't loose. When you close a JB case the lid fits with a nice snug and secure feeling even before you close the latch.

The interiors of our cases have padded cavities so that the cues don't move and will in most cases hold the cues securely inside should the case become inverted with the lid open or off.

Thus when you are carrying a JB case there aren't a lot of moving parts to get worn out. The latches are not bearing the weight of the case all by themselves as they do on cases with sloppy lids. It's much easier to make cases with overlarge lids that are very loose. But at the end of the day it's just not the best solution for protecting the cues in my opinion. In 20 years of making cases I have always made snug fitting lids and will continue to do so as long as I make cases.

I see this as an important part of case making. Not to just do one lid design and stick with it for better or worse, but instead to master every lid design and make them all work securely.

JB Cases
05-27-2011, 08:58 PM
We use a high quality solid brass #20 line snap and have not had one failure to our knowlegde ove the past 15 years.

Found this while surfing maybe you forgot it.

"I purchased my Justis on eBay while I was trying to decide if I was going to order one direct from Jack. It was simply too good a deal to pass up. Now one of the main reasons it was such a deal was that it was slightly damaged. It was actually missing the snap that the lid attaches to the case. I talked with Jack and he advised I had a couple of choices. I could send the case to him to be repaired OR he could send another snap and I could have a local shoe or leather repair place install the snap. I actually chose the latter and Jack sent me the snap at no cost.

When I checked out the case closer I could tell why the snap had broken/failed. It appeared as if the interior of the case was slightly higher (1/8 to 1/4 inch) than the outside so this was putting a strain/stress on the lid. I sent Jack pictures and he advised things did not look right. He advised that I had 2 choices. I could send the case back to him and he could repair it OR he told me how I could perform the repair myself. He emailed me the instructions on how to remove the interior. I chose the latter and found it was a fairly easy fix. Now for me it is neither here nor there on what caused the interior to be slightly raised. Did the leather exterior shrink or sag? Who cares..... I actually fixed it myself using Jacks instructions."


This is also enhanced by our lid design which totally eleminates stress on the leather and is being copied by others in the industry.



How does your lid design eliminate stress on the snap? I understand that line snaps are pretty durable but I don't think that they are intended to have to bear the weight of 5-8lbs of swinging cue case.

Your lids are loose so all the weight of the case is on the snap when the case is carried by the lid. This can be easily seen by unsnapping the case and trying to carry it by the handle. The lid would come off instantly.

On our cases the user could pick up most cases by the handle with the latch unsnapped and the lid will not come off instantly. It requires a deliberate action on the user's part to open the case. I.e. Not dependent on one point of protection to keep the case closed and the cues protected.

I think that this point is better shown in video comparison rather than in words. It's easier for people to see what I mean when it's demonstrated rather than talked about.

I will update this thread next week with a video explaining my points with a comparison to my Justis and a JB Case.

Meanwhile here is one that compares the JB case with a Predator Blak like the OP's - this might shed a little more light on the problem with the snap on the Predator cases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAQ3y8aPvgk

luv1pocket
05-30-2011, 09:46 PM
Does anybody know if Predator has a rep on the azbilliards boards? Still no response might just have to call them up.