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Mikjary
05-30-2011, 04:08 PM
http://pool.bz/P/?@3ANyd4EdGq2GSwC4HenC4PRYs2QBdD3UNyd3UXMr4UdGp4Ud Gp4YdGq3YcGV3YNqc2bSwC2bYkW4bevH4cenC2cbvV2cSHB4kR Ys3kUcf3kUcf2lBdD2lTte@

Here's a couple of basic banks using a contact point instead of the traditional diamonds. They can be made using no english and pocket speed. All banking adjustments, without saying, apply here.

The shot on the left is made by using the line from the pocket through the one ball with the contact point being at the back of the object ball. Aim the cue ball where the line exits the one ball.

The shot on the right is made by again, taking a line from the pocket through the seven ball, but using the front of the object ball as a contact point. Crossover banks use the front contact point. Cut back banks use the back contact point.

There are adjustments for straight in banks, thin crossover banks and thin cut back banks. Use pocket speed as these banks are affected like all banks by throw and speed. With a soft stroke they will be accurate to even where you aim at on the pocket.

You can use this method to bank a ball for a safety, too. Just figure out where you want to bank the ball to and find the contact point/line to get it there.

If these make sense, small adjustments will pocket almost any bank. Right now I'm working on two railers. More to come.

Best,
Mike

jason777r
05-30-2011, 05:00 PM
Sounds cool, but I don't see the pic. Is it just me?

JoeyA
05-30-2011, 05:20 PM
Sounds cool, but I don't see the pic. Is it just me?

I think the cuetable diagram requires Shockwave which you can download for free.

jason777r
05-30-2011, 05:32 PM
I think the cuetable diagram requires Shockwave which you can download for free.

Thank you very much:D

TX Poolnut
05-30-2011, 05:40 PM
It's working for me.

Blue Hog ridr
05-30-2011, 06:14 PM
Thats pretty cool, thanks.
The opportunity to bank comes up so often, that I like to keep on my toes and practice them when I can.

Always nice to know different ways to do it.
Maybe you can explain your terminology to me. I don't quite understand what you mean by a Cut back and a Cross over bank.

Mikjary
05-30-2011, 06:41 PM
Thats pretty cool, thanks.
The opportunity to bank comes up so often, that I like to keep on my toes and practice them when I can.

Always nice to know different ways to do it.
Maybe you can explain your terminology to me. I don't quite understand what you mean by a Cut back and a Cross over bank.

Sorry about that! If a bank is not a straight in shot using one rail, you either cut back to the direction of the pocket or cross over with the cue ball. The one ball is a cut back to the pocket and the seven ball is a crossover bank.

Straight in banks can be made with this method, but a different contact point is needed from what is shown.

Best,
Mike

conetip
05-30-2011, 07:38 PM
Sorry about that! If a bank is not a straight in shot using one rail, you either cut back to the direction of the pocket or cross over with the cue ball. The one ball is a cut back to the pocket and the seven ball is a crossover bank.

Straight in banks can be made with this method, but a different contact point is needed from what is shown.

Best,
Mike

Can these shots shown be made as straight banks, or do they have to be the cutback and crossover?

Mikjary
05-30-2011, 07:55 PM
Can these shots shown be made as straight banks, or do they have to be the cutback and crossover?

You can use the same aiming method to make straight in banks or close to straight in. Using the same line from the pocket through the object ball, you have the front and back contact points. Aim between the two contact points with the cue ball. With a little practice I was able to find this point by dividing the ball in half between the front and rear contact points.

Probably the hardest part is visualizing the rear contact point on the back of the object ball. You obviously can't see it, so you must estimate its location.

Best,
Mike

3RAILKICK
05-30-2011, 08:53 PM
Mike-

Thanks for sharing.

There's more than one way to get to Burbank.

Mikjary
05-30-2011, 09:03 PM
Mike-

Thanks for sharing.

There's more than one way to get to Burbank.

Anytime, Bill. I'm still working on the two and three railers. I've found some interesting results! :wink:

Best,
Mike

Mikjary
05-30-2011, 10:00 PM
http://pool.bz/P/?@4AALW4BCxA3CCYA4DAMd3EBJl4FBil4GBjO3HBKO4IAMA4NU kL2OUcy1PSey4QJIQ4iUkL4iYjt3ibCp2jUcy2jaak1jdWp1jd Wp1jdWp1jdWp1jdWo1jdWo1jdWo1jdWo1jdfo1kSey2kabM2kc nS1kdfo1kdfq1kdfq1kdWq1kdvs4lJIQ4lVJN4lbXY3lbCl@

Here is a diagram of the straight in or close to straight in banks.

Best,
Mike

jdxprs
05-30-2011, 10:04 PM
I've never seen that system before. thanks for posting!

theUBC
05-30-2011, 10:29 PM
Hi,

the 9th of June 2011 we will launch a new instructional online book and 40 min. online video.

It is the SEE-SYSTEM.

It was develloped by Darren Appleton and me.
Beside a complete aiming and aligning system for direct shots it covers how to make bank shots without the diamonds by using a contact point behind the object ball.

But there is a little more to it to be able to make them consistently than what is shown here...but the main point is YES it is possible! :thumbup:

Don't miss this!

More to come soon...

scottjen26
05-31-2011, 08:19 AM
Good stuff Mike, yet more stuff I haven't encountered!!! I'll have to compare this to the CTE banking approach tonight, I'm pretty deadly with that these days except for some of the more off angle banks, maybe this will fill in that gap.

Thanks!
Scott

MOJOE
05-31-2011, 12:35 PM
Interesting Mike.. I've never seen this approach..

So when doing the cut back banks, am I aiming the CB center at the rear "contact point" on the OB??

On the crossover, I obviously cannon hit the actual CP, so am I aiming center CB at that point once again?

I'll try this when I get home from work tonight..

Tramp Steamer
05-31-2011, 12:47 PM
Just for the hell of it, does anyone know the true name for the diamonds, or sometimes called dots, on a pool table?
The first person to send in a correct answer will win a new Schwinn bicycle compliments of The Miracle Bread Company. Remember folks: "If it tastes good, it's a Miracle." :)

Dead Crab
05-31-2011, 02:28 PM
Just for the hell of it, does anyone know the true name for the diamonds, or sometimes called dots, on a pool table?
The first person to send in a correct answer will win a new Schwinn bicycle compliments of The Miracle Bread Company. Remember folks: "If it tastes good, it's a Miracle." :)


They are correctly referred to as sights.

Mikjary
05-31-2011, 03:09 PM
Interesting Mike.. I've never seen this approach..

So when doing the cut back banks, am I aiming the CB center at the rear "contact point" on the OB??

On the crossover, I obviously cannon hit the actual CP, so am I aiming center CB at that point once again?

I'll try this when I get home from work tonight..

Hey Joe,

Aim cue ball center at these points, no english, soft speed. Speed and throw will affect all banks, including these. There are adjustments as the cuts get thinner and throw is a factor.

This simple system is tailor made for the diamond system challenged pool player. :grin: That's why I like it.

Best,
Mike

Jaden
05-31-2011, 03:26 PM
Hi,

the 9th of June 2011 we will launch a new instructional online book and 40 min. online video.

It is the SEE-SYSTEM.

It was develloped by Darren Appleton and me.
Beside a complete aiming and aligning system for direct shots it covers how to make bank shots without the diamonds by using a contact point behind the object ball.

But there is a little more to it to be able to make them consistently than what is shown here...but the main point is YES it is possible! :thumbup:

Don't miss this!

More to come soon...

While there are short cuts and ways of becoming more accurate, banking is the best illustration of why it is necssary to use SOME feel when playing billiards.

The problem most people run into when lining up a bank is using the same rebound angle relative to the rail from center ball.

The easy way to get around that is to aim through the rail contact point on the object ball.

It's going to be different for any given angle, but it will ALWAYS be the same relative to the rail.

No matter what angle the OB is coming at the rail from, the CP on the OB when it strikes the rail will be parallel to the rail.

If you imagine the same rebound angle going through the section of the OB where the CP is, and you hit the ball a medium shot, it will rebound at the same angle. (This doesn't work on Diamonds for all shots, well it might with the new rail design).

You'll have to account for tons of variables though. That's where the feel aspect comes in. Follow or draw, left or right spin, stun, etc... I'm not going to cover all aspects of banking in this post, but if you can follow the above and practice it, it will help with banking and especially kicking because it gives you an accurate starting point to adjust to the other variables.

Jaden

Chi2dxa
05-31-2011, 04:06 PM
:thumbup: Thanks for the information Mike, I will unleashed this on the world Wed. at the luncheon special.

Tramp Steamer
05-31-2011, 04:55 PM
They are correctly referred to as sights.

We have a winner! Congratulations Dead Crab. Sights is the correct answer.
You may claim your prize no later than 6:35 pm, May 31, 2011, at any Miracle Bread Company bakery in your area. Enjoy your new bicycle. :)

And remember:
"When it's time for a treat, but you're dead on your feet.
And the cars broken down, and it's too far to town.
Just reach for our sack, and then make you a snack,
from the best bread that there is around."

Chi2dxa
05-31-2011, 05:07 PM
Mike, I am having waaaaaayyyyy to much fun with this system. I hope that I don't use up all the magic.

Thank again!!!

Mikjary
05-31-2011, 06:53 PM
Mike, I am having waaaaaayyyyy to much fun with this system. I hope that I don't use up all the magic.

Thank again!!!

I enjoyed it, too the first time I used it. The good news is after some work with it, I have been using a variation for two and three rail banks that may turn out to be magical. :grin: And you're quite welcome!

Best,
Mike

scottjen26
06-01-2011, 12:39 PM
Mike,

I tried it, but for me I was more accurate with the CTE or 90/90 approach. Was easier for me to see the lines or aim points as opposed to seeing the contact points, I found I could fine them just fine when imagining the line from the pocket, but then when I went back to the CB it was tough to keep that point in my sights. Any advice for that, maybe I was doing something wrong?

For the ones that did work, I setup the object ball with the number at the contact point I needed to aim at, for those they worked pretty well but the cut banks were more accurate than the crossover banks, for me at least.

Certainly await any more info you may have on 2 or 3 railers, which typically require a lot of feel and experience to even get close. They don't come up much in normal games, but in one pocket or safety play that could be very useful information...


Thanks!
Scott

JoeyA
06-01-2011, 12:48 PM
Hi,

the 9th of June 2011 we will launch a new instructional online book and 40 min. online video.

It is the SEE-SYSTEM.

It was develloped by Darren Appleton and me.
Beside a complete aiming and aligning system for direct shots it covers how to make bank shots without the diamonds by using a contact point behind the object ball.

But there is a little more to it to be able to make them consistently than what is shown here...but the main point is YES it is possible! :thumbup:

Don't miss this!

More to come soon...

Ekkes,
With your talent and experience as a top instructor and Darren's phenomenal pocket billiard talent (I don't know much about his instructing talent) this sounds like the makings of a thread of its own. Can't wait to see and here more about this. Teaming up with Darren Appleton is a DYNAMITE thing to do. Wishing you great success.

JoeyA

Mikjary
06-02-2011, 10:59 PM
http://pool.bz/P/?@3AVwl2GSIn4PWuJ1QVDT3UVwl3UYJp1UdIB2bSIn2bWpc1bd Wl4kWuJ3kaXr1lVDT2lVKh@

There are two ways to adjust when you start to get a lot of throw from cutting the object ball backwards, towards the pocket or if you want to shoot with a firm stroke. You can add a tip or more of outside english to compensate for the throw and speed.

Another way I use is to aim the inside edge of the cueball to the contact point. Lining up mirror image points on the rail with a ghostball adjusted for throw will bear out these angles. On extreme cut back banks, I add a tip of english also. Using the edge of the cueball allows you to aim at the contact point without moving off of the object ball.

<iframe src="http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@3HPnA4QWhn3cPnA4cdOv3cTum4lWhn3lTVr4qTgwinside_e dge&ZZ@" noresize="noresize" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" frameborder="no" width="600" height="400" ></iframe>

Thin crossover banks will use a tip of reverse english to compensate for the throw on the object ball.

Using english in any banking system to compensate for speed and throw is a given. The methods I've shown are for a soft shot that is not affected much by cut induced throw (CIT) and following natural banking angles. You can build on your banking by experimenting with this method and understanding basic banking principles of throw, spin and speed.

Best,
Mike

JoeyA
06-03-2011, 08:16 AM
http://pool.bz/P/?@3AVwl2GSIn4PWuJ1QVDT3UVwl3UYJp1UdIB2bSIn2bWpc1bd Wl4kWuJ3kaXr1lVDT2lVKh@

There are two ways to adjust when you start to get a lot of throw from cutting the object ball backwards, towards the pocket or if you want to shoot with a firm stroke. You can add a tip or more of outside english to compensate for the throw and speed.

Another way I use is to aim the inside edge of the cueball to the contact point. Lining up mirror image points on the rail with a ghostball adjusted for throw will bear out these angles. On extreme cut back banks, I add a tip of english also. Using the edge of the cueball allows you to aim at the contact point without moving off of the object ball.

<iframe src="http://CueTable.com/P/Player/?@3HPnA4QWhn3cPnA4cdOv3cTum4lWhn3lTVr4qTgwinside_e dge&ZZ@" noresize="noresize" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" frameborder="no" width="600" height="400" ></iframe>

Thin crossover banks will use a tip of reverse english to compensate for the throw on the object ball.

Using english in any banking system to compensate for speed and throw is a given. The methods I've shown are for a soft shot that is not affected much by cut induced throw (CIT) and following natural banking angles. You can build on your banking by experimenting with this method and understanding basic banking principles of throw, spin and speed.

Best,
Mike

mIKE,
I've used your banking method this past week with good results. One can use your methods and compare them with other aiming methods, like the ones in Jimmy Reid's DVD's and confirm that they all seem to make the cue ball go where it needs to go.

I think most aiming systems give the shooter a confidence that helps them deliver a straighter, smoother stroke than what they would not normally have. Your banking method description get a thumbs-up from JoeyA. :D

Thanks,

8JIM9
06-05-2011, 10:13 AM
Isn't half between the front and rear contact point, always the center of the object ball? 8JIM9

Mikjary
06-05-2011, 11:51 AM
Isn't half between the front and rear contact point, always the center of the object ball? 8JIM9

A straight back bank or dead bank, will use a center to center hit between the cue ball and object ball. This will be aimed between the front and rear contact points on the object ball, or center of the object ball.

An almost straight back bank, or a bank that is just a few degrees off of center to center, will be aimed an eighth to a quarter of an inch off of center.http://pool.bz/P/?@3AKgF3CKgu3EKga4PQbj4QQbk4RQSj3UKgF3UOni4Udfv3WK gu3WTFM4WdOv4WdOv4WdPA4WdOw3YKga3YRIx4Ydfr4Ydfn4kQ bj3kdEk4kdOw4kchr4kdOw4kdfn4keeA4lQbk3lKXY3ldEK4ld Ov4ldfv4ldfr4mQSj3mNyD3mOHD@ In the pool table layout, the three ball is a straight back bank, with no aiming adjustment needed. The front and rear contact points agree with a center to center aiming line or hitting the middle of the object ball.

The five ball is shown to be a few degrees off of a center hit to make the bank. The center of the front and rear contact points moves over an eighth inch or so to the right to pocket the ball.

As the bank moves away from a close to straight in bank, the front or rear contact points can be used. The one ball could be banked with a lot of right hand spin, but using the rear contact point with an adjustment for cut induced throw would be the better choice. Position play dictates the stroke.

Practicing with this method allows you to know when this change of contact points is needed. I estimate the change to be at around 7-10 degrees off of straight in, depending on speed and english, etc. Again, this method is only a baseline and is affected by speed, spin and throw. I'm making these shots shown with a soft stroke.

Best,
Mike