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pro9dg
06-02-2011, 02:20 PM
Ten top Filipinos have joined the ABP. Now they might start motoring.
Efren, Busta, Orcullo, Pagulyan and Gomez are the star names who give an international flavor to the group

We must now await the emergence of the Europeans and then they have the raw materials to create something credible.

The fact that the players are still waiting to be paid for the Beijing Open might light a fuse under many of them

JoeyA
06-02-2011, 02:27 PM
Ten top Filipinos have joined the ABP. Now they might start motoring.

We need LINKS, Doug.

pro9dg
06-02-2011, 02:30 PM
Joey
Try the front page

elvicash
06-02-2011, 02:32 PM
We need LINKS, Doug.

http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=8776

pro9dg
06-02-2011, 02:50 PM
We need LINKS, Doug.

You will get a more comprehensive article including all the members and the composition of the board at
www.pro9.co.uk

Wedge
06-03-2011, 03:54 AM
Hope this works out for all. I remember in the 70's the PPPA (Professional Pool Players Association) was formed by the top US Pool Players...Mizerak, Margo, Hopkins and others mainly from the NY/NJ/PA area. If I recal it did not last long...not sure why...probably too many egos running it.

Johnnyt
06-03-2011, 06:01 AM
I hear that a lot of promotors and sponsors want to know what the new org is going to do to help promote pool and the tournaments. This is a fair question, but the first thing that should be done by the org is make sure all money is posted for a tournament or none of them play. If they want to give the promotors that have paid in full over time a AAA rating and they don't have to post...that would seem right to me. Most will say if they don't play in them they will lose money. That there is not enough of in pool now as it is. I say if you get rid of the ones that don't pay with in a reasonable time that new promotors and sponsors will come on board when they see the organization and changes happening. Bad promotoers make ALL promotors look bad.

Another thing I can't see is ten board members that were not voted in. Ten is too many anyway IMO. Right now you have ten pretty close friends making the calls for what could be 200 pros. A date needs to be set for a vote. Also they need a none playing business person (maybe even a trusted promotor) to have some input into the org.

I really hope this works out for pool, but with the way it has been set up so far I can't see it going anywhere. Johnnyt

jalapus logan
06-03-2011, 08:06 AM
Indeed, this is an encouraging sign that lends an air of credibility with the inclusion of international players.

However, I'm not sure what the future holds for pool or for the organization. I don't know what future there is in non-related, unaffiliated independent tourneys. There needs to be a professional league, in my opinion. One with statistics, perhaps even teams, etc. If the ABP could run a league, then that would really be something exciting that could envigorate (or is that create???) the fan base. I don't watch much pool, but I would tune in to a league.

As always, good luck to 'em!

JoeyA
06-03-2011, 08:11 AM
I hear that a lot of promotors and sponsors want to know what the new org is going to do to help promote pool and the tournaments. This is a fair question, but the first thing that should be done by the org is make sure all money is posted for a tournament or none of them play. If they want to give the promotors that have paid in full over time a AAA rating and they don't have to post...that would seem right to me. Most will say if they don't play in them they will lose money. That there is not enough of in pool now as it is. I say if you get rid of the ones that don't pay with in a reasonable time that new promotors and sponsors will come on board when they see the organization and changes happening. Bad promotoers make ALL promotors look bad.

Another thing I can't see is ten board members that were not voted in. Ten is too many anyway IMO. Right now you have ten pretty close friends making the calls for what could be 200 pros. A date needs to be set for a vote. Also they need a none playing business person (maybe even a trusted promotor) to have some input into the org.

I really hope this works out for pool, but with the way it has been set up so far I can't see it going anywhere. Johnnyt

Johnnyt,
You and I can agree on the Board of Directors. While the ten pretty close friends are making the calls, CURRENTLY, that is the way it should be.

As the membership increases, I believe that the Board of Directors will be represented by a cross section of the regular membership. This is the ONLY way that the organization will be a vibrant and LONG-LASTING organization. The organization must be a truly fair representation of all of the members.

Personally, I would like to see a Mark Griffin or maybe a MAJOR supplier representative like Simonis to be on the Board of Directors. You can't beat good, PROVEN, business experience, even with a stick.

JoeyA

jalapus logan
06-03-2011, 08:14 AM
Johnnyt,
You and I can agree on the Board of Directors. While the ten pretty close friends are making the calls, CURRENTLY, that is the way it should be.

As the membership increases, I believe that the Board of Directors will be represented by a cross section of the regular membership. This is the ONLY way that the organization will be a vibrant and LONG-LASTING organization. The organization must be a truly fair representation of all of the members.

Personally, I would like to see a Mark Griffin or maybe a MAJOR supplier representative like Simonis to be on the Board of Directors. You can't beat good, PROVEN, business experience, even with a stick.

JoeyA

Yep. Someone with vision and organizational skills. Perhaps the org can be formed with a CEO and board of directors type of arrangement. The org, managed by the CEO, but nominated by the board and held accountable to them. The board, of course, should consist of the players.

Scott Lee
06-03-2011, 09:49 AM
Johnnyt...They (ABP) already had a very smart, highly successful businessman as a consultant (who offered his help gratis, similarly to the fellow who offered to take the lead of the WPBA and was summarily fired). He helped to develop a mission statement, and offered guidance...which was ignored to the point where he kind of "threw up his hands". IMO, I see this new organization as another "too many chiefs, and not enough indians" situation...just like previous attempts at pro organizations.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Also they need a none playing business person (maybe even a trusted promotor) to have some input into the org.

I really hope this works out for pool, but with the way it has been set up so far I can't see it going anywhere. Johnnyt

CrisDeLaGarza
06-03-2011, 10:27 AM
Johnnyt...They (ABP) already had a very smart, highly successful businessman as a consultant (who offered his help gratis, similarly to the fellow who offered to take the lead of the WPBA and was summarily fired). He helped to develop a mission statement, and offered guidance...which was ignored to the point where he kind of "threw up his hands". IMO, I see this new organization as another "too many chiefs, and not enough indians" situation...just like previous attempts at pro organizations.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com



I just posted my opinions (and these are just my person opinions of it) in my blog
http://cristinadlg.blogspot.com/2011/06/my-analysis-of-association-of-billiard.html

jalapus logan
06-03-2011, 11:01 AM
Johnnyt...They (ABP) already had a very smart, highly successful businessman as a consultant (who offered his help gratis, similarly to the fellow who offered to take the lead of the WPBA and was summarily fired). He helped to develop a mission statement, and offered guidance...which was ignored to the point where he kind of "threw up his hands". IMO, I see this new organization as another "too many chiefs, and not enough indians" situation...just like previous attempts at pro organizations.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Certainly a risk.

justnum
06-03-2011, 12:34 PM
It is great that the players are burdening themselves with the responsibility of developing long term solutions for the billiards industry.

Most industry members don't plan out beyond their next few events.

The biggest risk with player groups are people not knowing how to create the change they want. But that is a problem after they have decided on the changes they want.

Nostroke
06-03-2011, 01:37 PM
I just posted my opinions (and these are just my person opinions of it) in my blog
http://cristinadlg.blogspot.com/2011/06/my-analysis-of-association-of-billiard.html

good analysis-4th line from bottom 'wish' not 'with'

CrisDeLaGarza
06-03-2011, 02:14 PM
good analysis-4th line from bottom 'wish' not 'with'

Thanks for catching that...I'm sure there are more typo's. I was bored are work and writing quickly :)

justnum
06-03-2011, 04:11 PM
The big breakthrough is that the billiards professional are starting to use marketing to push for changes in their favor.

It is too often promoters tell people what should be done in order for success to happen.

Is it whining or is it professionals telling the fans obstacles that prevent them from thinking about playing a great game. When it comes to getting paid on time or in full, I view that as an obstacle that prevents them from staying focused on the matchups.

There are countless other people I've dealt with that always want to keep their dirty business out of other people's minds. But in a fan based sport, telling the fans how they feel about their careers and the direction it should have been going decades years ago, is just them being honest.

Sure they can play their matches and expect a huge payout but those payments are the last to be made, because everyone else is collecting money at the door or on the internet.

If the pros just talked about in a professional manner, it doesn't have to be gossip or an online vent. It could just be these are some official statements about difficulties we are going to address and we hope the fans are supportive as we take this direction.

From my limited exposure to pro players they are sound people and I can tell their influence with the billiard fan base is stronger than promoters. If the players made a statement like "Business is done and people deliver on commitments, but some people think delivery can be delayed or postponed because they are special, is not a luxury we can afford to give in these hard economic times."

As a fan I don't like hearing the players get sideswiped at events. I don't like seeing them play 19 hours a day and not enjoy their matches because someone is being cheap with the event space. I know what its like to work tough hours and I wish they had made their insights more public.

Fans can be enthusiastic and sometimes that enthusiasm can be channelled for causes they believe in. Helping the players in a time of need like this, all that is left to wonder is how can fans help?

justnum
06-03-2011, 04:54 PM
The main problem to solve is how to prevent a USPPA situation or an IPT situation.

The situation defined as event takes place but no prize money is given out.

It is like the salesman who doesn't give you a receipt, you have no claim over a product/service but you paid your money upfront.

Two things happen a promoter has the prize money before the tournament takes place or while it is taking place.

How can a promoter prove that the prize money is available at the start of the event? Unless it is agreed and arranged that the prize money will not be paid at the end of the event because of financial complications.

I've seen construction guys they need capital for the construction materials, so sometimes they say we need more money to finish the job. If pool promoters are no better then construction workers at financing then that is pathetic.

But is that the situation the players are dealing with? My guess most times like in the USPPA news is yes. Nothing can stop a promoter from not paying out the prize money despite have a successful event and running off with the profits while the cameras produce and promote an event that appears to have made everyone happy.

The situation where a promoter takes losses happens as well, can they move the financial burden to the players like the IPT by delaying payment. That is a tough situation because the money is coming it just isn't coming as fast as it should, another financial complication.

In both cases if the promoter told players that there will be financial difficulties as soon as they knew about it, at least there is trust and honesty. If the promoters hope some magical financial solution comes through and it does then no one knows the difference. In either case nothing is stopping the promoter from doing everything right but telling everyone else something else happened and skipping out on the prizemoney bill.

JB Cases
06-03-2011, 07:23 PM
Can we take this to the action room and get some bets down on whether it makes a difference or not?

I will bet $20 that it makes no difference what so ever.

I will bet that the players will continue to play in any and every tournament that comes along despite the lack of payment from previous events, despite the slow payment, despite having to put up with wildly inconsistent conditions.

Starting today. Let's see how many events come and go with "issues" that APB players didn't boycott as a group and in total from now until the next 12 months.

iusedtoberich
06-03-2011, 10:14 PM
Is this the same association started by Archer, Morris, and Moore last year?

DogsPlayingPool
06-03-2011, 10:36 PM
Is this the same association started by Archer, Morris, and Moore last year?

Yep, that's the one.

Scott Lee
06-03-2011, 10:37 PM
iusedtoberich...Yes, it's the same group. I don't want to be a pessimist, so I'll just wait and see. I hope they can make something work...but I have to agree with JB's statement.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Is this the same association started by Archer, Morris, and Moore last year?

justnum
06-04-2011, 05:35 AM
That guy Barry B. of US Open 9 ball tried to start a players organization a few months after ABP.

With a competing group they likely will wait to see if the ABP does something and then imitate it.

Like what happen after the IPT busted, new members tried to emulate the IPT in a smaller way.

justnum
06-04-2011, 06:52 AM
If the players use their association to muscle in on tournaments and decide that they want to have an independent or impartial monitor of the prize funds before, during and after the tournament that would prevent anyone from running off with the cash like the entry fees from the USPPA event, and that would be a way for someone to determine if payments can be made in full preventing the IPT delayed situation.

Essentially the pro players association can sanction tournaments giving them sponsorship in exchange for management of the prize money. Just because they manage the prize money doesn't mean someone won't run off with it but there are barriers that can be put in place. Since the prize funds are managed by a neutral party nobody can rob Peter to pay Paul.

Laura Norder
06-04-2011, 06:54 AM
I'm not getting this at all.

As a fan, I whole-heartedly subscribe to the opinion that the players need to pull together across the globe to take the game places, even just to stop the calamities like non-payment occurring every other event.

But...what does this organization actually stand for and what does it hope to achieve? What is the purpose of announcing 'such and such' has joined our cause when nobody actually knows what the cause is?

It just looks like a list of Pool players to me right now.

TX Poolnut
06-04-2011, 07:32 AM
I hope this works out for the benefit of the sport.

Egos be damned.