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View Full Version : League - "Winning the Trip" Question


Cornerman
02-04-2006, 11:09 AM
Here's a question that I never thought of asking until, well, right now ;)

Our BCA-sanctioned league won "the trip" to the National tournament in Vegas in the first session of the year. It's now the finals of the second session, and if we win, we get cash.

If the other team wins, they win a trip to Vegas. When you look at the two prizes, our prize is significantly less than what they're playing for.

This has never happened to me before, and I'm at odds as to the fairness of this. We pay as much in dues as anyone else. Why should we get a lesser payoff? Shouldn't we get the cash equivalent of the trip? Does anyone else have the same or better situation in their league?

And there's really one more session and a couple more ways to "win the Trip" to go before the Vegas trip. So, we could really be in dire straights if we ... win?

Fred

BillYards
02-04-2006, 11:23 AM
Fred:

Sounds like a strange situation. Not sure how you would be in dire straights if you win... you would still get the cash and have already won the trip... even if the cash is less than the cost of the trip.

There are other factors to consider... it is much better to have other teams from your area going to nationals for several reasons. First... you can travel together, room together, and root eachother on, since it is unlikely you will be playing eachother.

I would say that you should try to cut a deal with the 2nd place team. Provided that you whip them in the final match... you can dump to them in the final frame, take the 2nd place money and sell the trip to the other team at a reduced cost... maybe that would work. Trust me when I say it is more fun to have other teams going.

Seems like you can work something out... or just take the money and the trip and be happy and let the other teams pay their own way.

frankncali
02-04-2006, 11:59 AM
IMO the win should be worth exactly the same no matter what team wins it.
It reminds me of going to weekly tournaments where the director waits
until he sees who is going to finish where and then assigns the $$ to the
spots.

Congrats on winning the trip. It willl be a blast.

Only thing I can say about your current situation is that I would not lay down to anyone. If the other team wants you guys to let them have the spot I would not do it. Even if they offer to pay. Its still about winning and winning money in league play should always be the second or third thought.
Good luck

almer
02-04-2006, 02:50 PM
Here's a question that I never thought of asking until, well, right now ;)

Our BCA-sanctioned league won "the trip" to the National tournament in Vegas in the first session of the year. It's now the finals of the second session, and if we win, we get cash.

If the other team wins, they win a trip to Vegas. When you look at the two prizes, our prize is significantly less than what they're playing for.

This has never happened to me before, and I'm at odds as to the fairness of this. We pay as much in dues as anyone else. Why should we get a lesser payoff? Shouldn't we get the cash equivalent of the trip? Does anyone else have the same or better situation in their league?

And there's really one more session and a couple more ways to "win the Trip" to go before the Vegas trip. So, we could really be in dire straights if we ... win?

Fred
That seems like a strange way to run a league,if i hear you right 1 team can win all three trips or 1 trip,and money twice,not a league i would play in.My league we have 14 teams,playoffs at end ,7 teams win trips to Vegas.

Cornerman
02-04-2006, 03:08 PM
Fred:

Sounds like a strange situation. Not sure how you would be in dire straights if you win... you would still get the cash and have already won the trip... even if the cash is less than the cost of the trip. We'd only be in dire straights mentally. We're going silly thinking about it now. I can only imagine we'll be off our rocker if the same situation comes up later this spring.

There are other factors to consider... it is much better to have other teams from your area going to nationals for several reasons. First... you can travel together, room together, and root eachother on, since it is unlikely you will be playing eachother.Believe me when I say that I want the other team there. We all have known each other for so long, and we always have a blast out in Vegas, all together.

I would say that you should try to cut a deal with the 2nd place team. Provided that you whip them in the final match... The reason why we're playing once more is that we couldn't finish the entire tournament. It went too late. But, we had to beat them twice. And we destroyed them the first match which extended the entire tournament.

We offered the split before the 1st match, and again after the 2nd match, so they know we're serious about wanting them to be there. But, we won't give the match or money away. Our offer was a buyoff amount half of what we could win. So, both of our teams would win, just a lower amount than under normal circumstances. Their entire team doesn't seem too keen on the deal.

If we win, I doubt we'd ask for the split. The league director wouldn't be too thrilled with that. But, I'll have to mull that one around ;)

Fred

Cornerman
02-04-2006, 03:13 PM
That seems like a strange way to run a league,if i hear you right 1 team can win all three trips or 1 trip,and money twice,not a league i would play in.My league we have 14 teams,playoffs at end ,7 teams win trips to Vegas.

Maybe that's where I shouldn't complain. Our league has more opportunities to "win the Trip." And the consequences of more opportunities is winning twice, with a lesser payout the second time.

I like your system as well, with so 50% of going, and having a bunch of teams go.

Fred

kyle
02-04-2006, 03:39 PM
The league is a non-profit organization so you can't recieve more money than what you paid into the league, I think.

Barbara
02-04-2006, 03:44 PM
Here's a question that I never thought of asking until, well, right now ;)

Our BCA-sanctioned league won "the trip" to the National tournament in Vegas in the first session of the year. It's now the finals of the second session, and if we win, we get cash.

If the other team wins, they win a trip to Vegas. When you look at the two prizes, our prize is significantly less than what they're playing for.

This has never happened to me before, and I'm at odds as to the fairness of this. We pay as much in dues as anyone else. Why should we get a lesser payoff? Shouldn't we get the cash equivalent of the trip? Does anyone else have the same or better situation in their league?

And there's really one more session and a couple more ways to "win the Trip" to go before the Vegas trip. So, we could really be in dire straights if we ... win?

Fred

Fred,

I don't know why your team would be allowed to play in the playoffs again for another chance when you got your win for the trip in the first session. But I guess they should have to allow it to be fair to your team.

So my question is, why should you expect anything when you pull off the win for a second time? Please, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but what were you expecting?

Barbara

Gunn_Slinger
02-04-2006, 04:14 PM
Here's a question that I never thought of asking until, well, right now ;)

Our BCA-sanctioned league won "the trip" to the National tournament in Vegas in the first session of the year. It's now the finals of the second session, and if we win, we get cash.

If the other team wins, they win a trip to Vegas. When you look at the two prizes, our prize is significantly less than what they're playing for.

This has never happened to me before, and I'm at odds as to the fairness of this. We pay as much in dues as anyone else. Why should we get a lesser payoff? Shouldn't we get the cash equivalent of the trip? Does anyone else have the same or better situation in their league?

And there's really one more session and a couple more ways to "win the Trip" to go before the Vegas trip. So, we could really be in dire straights if we ... win?

Fred

The cash you would win would be around the same if not more then what the cash equivalent of the trip is worth. Trips are bought in large numbers way ahead of time and at huge discounts,large groups such as your BCA would be getting a deal.
I thought that after a team had won a trip to Vegas they were removed from future attempts. Oh well.
Good luck with your choice,,, lol mine would be to let the other team win and make them buy y'all dinner in Vegas. :D

wvroadrunner
02-04-2006, 10:17 PM
That seems like a strange way to run a league,if i hear you right 1 team can win all three trips or 1 trip,and money twice,not a league i would play in.My league we have 14 teams,playoffs at end ,7 teams win trips to Vegas.

Almer

how can your league pay to send 7 teams to vegas with only
14 teams playing?

Cornerman
02-05-2006, 06:27 AM
Fred,

I don't know why your team would be allowed to play in the playoffs again for another chance when you got your win for the trip in the first session. But I guess they should have to allow it to be fair to your team. This is the makeup of the league. Three sessions, with a Vegas trip playoff every session, as opposed to a regional trip every session with one big Vegas playoff tournament at the end.

There's also another wrench that I didn't mention... Many of the divisions are there own "body" under the umbrella of the entire League. Each particular division can have their own playoff system completely separate from the rest of the Leauge, and can do whatever to send a team to Vegas. So, we even have yet another way to "win the Trip."

So my question is, why should you expect anything when you pull off the win for a second time? Please, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but what were you expecting?

Barbara

I guess I expect a cash equivalent of the trip, since that's what the league operator is ready to pay out. But, as it stands, if we win, we would win approximately 60-70% of the cash value of the trip, depending on airfare.

That is, we're playing for two different prize values, even though we pay in as much every week as anyone else.

Fred

Rodney
02-05-2006, 08:32 AM
This is the makeup of the league. Three sessions, with a Vegas trip playoff every session, as opposed to a regional trip every session with one big Vegas playoff tournament at the end.

There's also another wrench that I didn't mention... Many of the divisions are there own "body" under the umbrella of the entire League. Each particular division can have their own playoff system completely separate from the rest of the Leauge, and can do whatever to send a team to Vegas. So, we even have yet another way to "win the Trip."



I guess I expect a cash equivalent of the trip, since that's what the league operator is ready to pay out. But, as it stands, if we win, we would win approximately 60-70% of the cash value of the trip, depending on airfare.

That is, we're playing for two different prize values, even though we pay in as much every week as anyone else.

Fred


I think the leagues are in it for the money(of course). When i was in the APA, our team had already won the trip to vegas. Three of my temates and i decided to try to win a trip in doubles. Well my team came in first, my other teamates came in second, then the league operater (tracy) said we could only go to vegas for one tournament or the other(teams, or partners). We chose to go for teams, and no one from the partners tournament was sent to vegas. The league kept all the money. We didn't even get any money for winning the event.:mad:

Rodney<----team took second in 8 ball teams that year.

renard
02-05-2006, 08:40 AM
Fred, when you are talking about, "winning a trip" are you saying just the entry fee is being paid. Not the flight and rooms in Vegas?

We just won our qualifier (VNEA) to Vegas last night. Our entry is paid by the vendor. On top of that we recieved $2000 as a team ($400 each). So the cash pays for the flight basically the rooms will come out of our pocket.

Soon (mid-march) with another vendor we will play for another chance to go to Vegas with the same amount at stake with a stronger field.

When you talk of divisions in the BCA is it the same as other/different vendors like in the VNEA?

Cornerman
02-05-2006, 09:05 AM
Fred, when you are talking about, "winning a trip" are you saying just the entry fee is being paid. Not the flight and rooms in Vegas? Flight, entry fee, and rooms for the Open Team days, in this case.[/quote]

We just won our qualifier (VNEA) to Vegas last night. Our entry is paid by the vendor. On top of that we recieved $2000 as a team ($400 each). So the cash pays for the flight basically the rooms will come out of our pocket. Sure, rub it in ;)

Soon (mid-march) with another vendor we will play for another chance to go to Vegas with the same amount at stake with a stronger field.

When you talk of divisions in the BCA is it the same as other/different vendors like in the VNEA?


We have a BCA/ACS dual sanctioned league system that covers much of New England. There are several league nights (25-30?) spread out from Maine to CT. That would be similar to, say, the APA where there's one league operator who might handle an entire state or part of a state's worth of APA leagues nights.

Fred

PopAndSlop
02-05-2006, 09:11 AM
I play in the VNEA here in Montreal. The league sends about 1 in 14 teams to Vegas, plane, room and entry. The food is your own expense. It costs about 6000$ for the week and plane for each team. The only thing I hate is that no teams are sent on merit, all the trips are a draw at the final tournament.

almer
02-05-2006, 09:22 AM
Almer

how can your league pay to send 7 teams to vegas with only
14 teams playing?
We play a 27 week schedule at $20.oo per player per night=$2700.00 per team x14 teams=$37800.00 plenty to send 7 teams.

renard
02-05-2006, 10:08 AM
I play in the VNEA here in Montreal. The league sends about 1 in 14 teams to Vegas, plane, room and entry. The food is your own expense. It costs about 6000$ for the week and plane for each team. The only thing I hate is that no teams are sent on merit, all the trips are a draw at the final tournament.

The league vendors we have here (Ohio) are small with approx. 40- to 50 teams per vendor with three vendors in the area. With the vendors competeing for players it was nice at first everything was paid for in Vegas (Flight, rooms, & entry.)

Now they are really tight. They all hold league Vegas tournies. (By winning the regular season you recieve a state spot for the state tournie.)

Vendor A's tournie pays your entry and $1500 as a team. You only will recieve it all once you get off the plane in Vegas.
Vendor B's tournie pays your entry and $2000 as a team on the spot.
Vendor C's tournie pays your enty and $2000 as a team on the spot.

(Vendor A is the largest vendor with better tables and venues.)

For state, the spots are limited to each vendor on how many they can give out. If you don't finish in the top one or two you foot the bill yourself if you want to go. We play Fall and Winter sessions. Win one of the sessions go to State. If you win both sessions the accumulated points total leader behind the first place team goes as well.

Vendor A pays for your entry.
Vendor B pays for everything (Everyone drives the trip.)
Vendor C pays for everthing.

renard
02-05-2006, 05:34 PM
Here's a question that I never thought of asking until, well, right now ;)

Our BCA-sanctioned league won "the trip" to the National tournament in Vegas in the first session of the year. It's now the finals of the second session, and if we win, we get cash.

If the other team wins, they win a trip to Vegas. When you look at the two prizes, our prize is significantly less than what they're playing for.

This has never happened to me before, and I'm at odds as to the fairness of this. We pay as much in dues as anyone else. Why should we get a lesser payoff? Shouldn't we get the cash equivalent of the trip? Does anyone else have the same or better situation in their league?

And there's really one more session and a couple more ways to "win the Trip" to go before the Vegas trip. So, we could really be in dire straights if we ... win?

Fred

Fred does second pay anything in this second session?

almer
02-05-2006, 07:20 PM
I play in the VNEA here in Montreal. The league sends about 1 in 14 teams to Vegas, plane, room and entry. The food is your own expense. It costs about 6000$ for the week and plane for each team. The only thing I hate is that no teams are sent on merit, all the trips are a draw at the final tournament.
How many nights do you play and how much does it cost per night?

TheBook
02-05-2006, 10:57 PM
Sounds like the raffle where Ist prize was one week in Poland. 2nd prize was 2 weeks.

Cornerman
02-06-2006, 08:02 AM
Fred does second pay anything in this second session?
No.

Fred

Snapshot9
02-06-2006, 10:18 AM
They showcase those trips to Vegas at 'retail' rates when the reservations they have are really 'reduced' rates, whch makes you think you are winning more than what you really are. If you really investigate into the accomodations for the trip, you can tell they got a price break on everything.

PopAndSlop
02-06-2006, 10:47 AM
I priced a trip for 5 and hotel in Vegas at about 5000$ canadian. 600$ flight per person and 2 rooms at 1000$ for 10 days. The thing is that for the next 3 people it only goes up bu 1800$. I inflated the plane trip a bit to allow a bit of play.

shayla
02-06-2006, 02:00 PM
Our league is a Vegas trip league. We pay weekly dues and at the end of the session, is one tournament for a trip to Vegas. Only the winners get the trip, and 2nd place gets nothing. If you win the trip, you aren't eligible to play in the 2nd session tournament. However, at the end of each league session, the league operator pays out a small amount of money to each team based on team rankings at the end of the league session. If you win the tournament in the first session, your team can play in the 2nd session, but would only be eligible to win cash at the end of the league based on their team rankings and not eligible to play in the tournament for the trip.

Also, lots of league operators get airfare discounts and hotel discounts. I know ours goes through a travel agent, so he'd pay a lot less than what I'd pay if I was booking my own trip.

renard
02-06-2006, 05:11 PM
No.

Fred

That bites!

I look at everyones Vegas deals and I'm the one feeling like we're getting the shaft here in Ohio. I know there are many variables listed here but here are our vendors problems:

A)They book the flights in a persons name they don't go the vendor has to eat the cost

B)They pay for the rooms in the Riv the team can't go the vendor has to eat the cost.

C)So they started just paying cash. Now there are more teams playing solely for the cash. Screw Vegas is thier thought.

D)We pay $6 a week. Jack up that price the vendor starts losing players to other vendors.

Meanz666
02-28-2006, 07:40 PM
Hey dude, I won a trip to Las Vegas as well. I was there 2 years ago when I was 18 and it was great. I will be playing in the Singles Tourn, and the Team Tourn. Should be fun, hope to see you there...

Snapshot9
02-28-2006, 08:15 PM
that some leagues only pay for entry in the tournament and
for your room. Sometimes the trip out there is on you.

I tell you what sucks more - Winning the State BCA 8 ball championship
(Individual and team) and not even get a free trip to Nationals.