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View Full Version : Turn down shaft from 13mm to 12mm...?


Peer
02-06-2006, 03:50 PM
I was thinking of having Will-Lee-Cue turn down my Longoni shaft from 13mm to 12mm (keeping the same taper), and cut the ferule shorter. I wonder if anyone here has done this to their cue, and/or had any experience dealing with Willee? (In case you've had bad experience with him, I'd appreciate if you send me a private message instead of broadcasting it here.)

-- peer

iusedtoberich
02-06-2006, 05:45 PM
A customer of mine requested I do that with his two shafts. I don't know the brand. I made the first shaft 11.75 mm and the second 12.25 mm. Both ferrules were cut to .5 inches long. Both ferrules were a thermoplastic, and looked like ABS to me. I put Triangle tips on both shafts.

When finished, I asked the customer if I could try out the shafts, as I had never had a customer want 11.75mm and a half ferrule before. I was amazed after hitting balls for a few minutes. I got WAY more spin on the cueball than I ever have before. (and I play with an 11.75 mm Predator Z shaft). The deflection was the same as my Predator Z. In other words, I was making every ball I shot at. People who play with Predator's and other low squirt shafts can't easily do this without adjusting on every shot.

I don't know if the results I obtained were typical or not, but I sure liked them.

Tokyo-dave
02-06-2006, 05:51 PM
One of the first things I always do to every cue I have ever purchased is to 'customize' it to fit my by turning down the shaft and/or ferrule. I don't take that much wood off, so it's not as if I'm butchering the shaft, but I've found that a slightly tapered ferrule has reduced deflection and can add to a livelier cue ball action.
Note: There will be hundreds of cuemakers and others that will tell you that messing with your shafts taper is the sin of all sins. I believe that I am in the minority.
dave

Quesports
02-06-2006, 06:05 PM
I have also done it to the McDermott I shafts, I turned an I/2 down to 12.25 ( they come as 12.75) and it shoots great. Don't know if I have voided my warantee but I do not care either. I also shoot with an I/3 which is 11.75 and am very happy with it also. You can put much more with spin on the cue ball with the smaller tip which is why I like em that way.
Dan

bruin70
02-07-2006, 04:33 AM
i've done it to my shaft, and VERY well i might add, since i don't trust cuemakers anymore. not after SW screwed up my shaft.

Egg McDogit
02-07-2006, 07:26 AM
the difference in deflection is going to be night and day if you take off a full mm. also, don't expect your stick to hit as solid as it used to.

I was thinking of having Will-Lee-Cue turn down my Longoni shaft from 13mm to 12mm (keeping the same taper), and cut the ferule shorter. I wonder if anyone here has done this to their cue, and/or had any experience dealing with Willee? (In case you've had bad experience with him, I'd appreciate if you send me a private message instead of broadcasting it here.)

-- peer

PoolSleuth
02-07-2006, 07:35 AM
I read you post yesterday and pondered my ANSWER. Personally I would have the Guy who built the Shaft do the Turn Down for you as he know hows he Tapered the Shaft to get the performance you like.

A Third Party JUST TURNING IT DOWN could change the Characteristics of the SHAFT IMO...

Maybe you should post this Question in Ask the Cuemaker Section Also...

thoffen
02-07-2006, 08:15 AM
The taper has a HUGE amount to do with it. If you take a pro-tapered shaft and take it down a mm, it will deflect more.

Characteristics for low deflection:
1. Flex point nearer the tip
2. Lower tip mass.

Peer
02-07-2006, 12:54 PM
Egg McDogit wrote:
> the difference in deflection is going to be night
> and day if you take off a full mm.

When you say deflection, is that the same as squirt? And "night and day" is that in a bad way..?

Anyways, I'm probably just a confused mortal, but from reading up on divine Bob Jewett's articles, I'm getting the understanding that the ferrule is perhaps a bit stiffer than its wood, and therefore a longer ferrule would add more squirt than a shorter one.

The reason why I want my shaft turned down to a 12mm is mostly because I'm so used to my other 11mm -- the 13mm Longoni feels like a log in my hand. Besides, I've also read that a slightly thinner tip/shaft will draw better and squirt less... but again, I'm a mere mortal, so what do I know.

-- peer

thoffen
02-07-2006, 01:30 PM
When we say deflection we mean cue ball squirt.

Deflection is not necessarily a bad thing. What you want feedback and accuracy. You should be able to learn to adjust to a consistantly performing cue. If you have your cue turned down, you'll want to pay close attention to the taper. A pro taper would not be good here. A euro taper would be better, but it's significantly more conical. It would hit stiffer and with less deflection, but it would also not be as comfortable for a closed bridge user.

The purpose of a ferrule is to solidify the end wood of the cue. I would not go too short or it'll defeat its purpose. You'd probably get more consistency with a standard ferrule length, although you can cut deflection by reducing the end mass. A thinner ferrule will weigh less anyway, so don't chop it.

Egg McDogit
02-07-2006, 01:38 PM
When you say deflection, is that the same as squirt? And "night and day" is that in a bad way..?


yes, it will cause much less squirt. not bad, just different. might take you some time to adjust to it.

I used to like my shafts 12.5mm. I had a pretty sweet hitting 13.25mm shaft turned down to 12.5mm. It hit like crap after I had it turned down. Just something to be aware of.

Peer
02-07-2006, 02:02 PM
First thoffen wrote:
> Deflection is not necessarily a bad thing. What you want
> feedback and accuracy. You should be able to learn to adjust
> to a consistantly performing cue.

..and then Egg McDogit:
> I used to like my shafts 12.5mm. I had a pretty sweet hitting
> 13.25mm shaft turned down to 12.5mm. It hit like crap after I
> had it turned down. Just something to be aware of.


Oh jeez, I'm getting even more confused now. Would it really be that bad to shave down my Longoni shaft to a 12mm if I kept the same taper?

And, even more confusing, is when thoffen says that squirt (or deflection) isn't necessarily a bad thing. Not to stir up any controversy here, but what I've gathered so far is that we want to avoid squirt as much as possible... no?

Please enlighten me.


-- peer

Egg McDogit
02-07-2006, 02:32 PM
Not to stir up any controversy here, but what I've gathered so far is that we want to avoid squirt as much as possible... no?

Please enlighten me.


most of the people who post on this forum (including me) haven't the slightest idea of what they're talking about when it comes to pool. consider yourself enlightened.

yes, 1mm is a lot. shaving it down that much can have a huge impact on the hit. even if you go with some specific taper.

thoffen
02-07-2006, 03:01 PM
First thoffen wrote:
> Deflection is not necessarily a bad thing. What you want
> feedback and accuracy. You should be able to learn to adjust
> to a consistantly performing cue.

..and then Egg McDogit:
> I used to like my shafts 12.5mm. I had a pretty sweet hitting
> 13.25mm shaft turned down to 12.5mm. It hit like crap after I
> had it turned down. Just something to be aware of.


Oh jeez, I'm getting even more confused now. Would it really be that bad to shave down my Longoni shaft to a 12mm if I kept the same taper?

And, even more confusing, is when thoffen says that squirt (or deflection) isn't necessarily a bad thing. Not to stir up any controversy here, but what I've gathered so far is that we want to avoid squirt as much as possible... no?

Please enlighten me.


-- peer

It will play differently. Since I don't know what kind of taper the shaft has, I can't really answer that now can I? ;)

A lot of deflection can definitely be bad. However, just about any shaft can be adjusted for. If the shaft is a good shaft, it will hit consistently. If the shaft is consistent, then your brain has an amazing ability to adjust for this deflection over distance. Some have come up with systems (e.g. back hand english) to help figure this out...but I'd say it really isn't that important to focus on. If you allow yourself to accept deflection, you can choose a shaft that plays more consistently and provides the feel that you like. You can even use deflection in a positive manner. Think of it like a slight masse without having to jack up that can be controlled much much more easily. Also, minimizing deflection is going to be a bit dependent on a better stroke, so playing with a medium deflection cue can help you develop a better stroke.