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3RAILKICK
02-08-2006, 05:55 PM
:confused: Has this been discussed B4? Has it been resolved with certainty?

In 9-ball league play a (lets say) a 3-9 combo presents itself. 9 ball near a corner pocket, 3-ball 2 feet away at off angle such that after making the 2 you have to cut the 3 to the right to contact the 9 that cuts to the right to go in the pocket. Opponent lays cue on table with tip next to 3, sighting at the necessary contact point on the 9. He leaves cue on table, then views necessary cueball path to hit 3 at contact point defined by tip of cue next to 3 ball. Picks up cue, fires, makes 9 ball. Legal? or foul?, or "depends"? on local rule?

enzo
02-08-2006, 05:58 PM
imo, its fine unless he purposefully puts a little chalk mark with his cue in front of the 3 to aid him.

rackmsuckr
02-08-2006, 06:00 PM
Depends on what rules you are playing by. Many professional rules do not allow you to lay your stick on the table without gripping it. Some do not allow the bridge to be laid down either. The reasoning is because when they can be placed on the table, the shooter can then walk around to the other end of the table and look at the shot head on and that can be used as an aiming technique.

shinobi
02-08-2006, 06:00 PM
There are many cases which are close calls, but when a guy puts his cue down, uses it to measure an angle, walks around the table... that is a foul.

Barbara
02-08-2006, 06:14 PM
Depends on what rules you are playing by. Many professional rules do not allow you to lay your stick on the table without gripping it. Some do not allow the bridge to be laid down either. The reasoning is because when they can be placed on the table, the shooter can then walk around to the other end of the table and look at the shot head on and that can be used as an aiming technique.

Absolutely! Within the WPBA rules, laying your cue on the table and letting go of it is considered a foul by "Measuring". I remember Candi Rego discussing this during a Player's Meeting with NEWT. She got called on this foul.

I didn't know that just laying the bridge on the table is a foul. Really? Wow, they're getting so..so..sooooo....

Nevermind.:rolleyes:

Barbara

3RAILKICK
02-08-2006, 06:19 PM
LINDA
That's my point exactly- it IS an aiming device- a static aiming device left on table as you walk around table and confirm/refine final aiming for the shot.

P.S. Nice to have met you and Aunty Dan at Danny K's Last Wed. Good Shooting!! Ramin hits em pretty decent. Hope you had some luck at Hardtimes as well.

3RAILKICK

DaveK
02-09-2006, 08:08 AM
Depends on what rules you are playing by. Many professional rules do not allow you to lay your stick on the table without gripping it. Some do not allow the bridge to be laid down either. The reasoning is because when they can be placed on the table, the shooter can then walk around to the other end of the table and look at the shot head on and that can be used as an aiming technique.

This is exactly as I understand the 'rules'. When in doubt, I use the Worlds Standardized / BCA rules at :

http://www.bca-pool.com/play/

In the General Rules of Pocket Billiards, rule 3.42 (Devices) says :

"Only the cue stick may be used as an aid to judge gaps or as an aid to aligning a shot., so long as the cue is held by the hand. To do so otherwise is a foul and unsportsmanlike conduct."

While at the BCA site I learned another rule, one that some may find useful or at least interesting. You gotta use the right colour of chalk ! Rule 1.4 (b)Equipment Restrictions on Chalk says "player .... may use his own chalk, provided its color is compatible with the cloth. "

Dave

mjantti
02-09-2006, 08:19 AM
Just ask Rodney Morris, he was fouled according to the rule, in WPC 2003 (or something) in a L32 match against Alex Pagulayan... at hill-hill !

Rodney didn't protest, he knew the rule and just smiled like saying "why did I just do that". Well, he was hooked and buried on the shot but at least he would've had a change to hit the ball without making that foul.

If you play by BCA/WPA rules, it's a guaranteed foul.

Snapshot9
02-09-2006, 08:42 AM
I think it should be illegal to lay any part of the cue on the table. Too many players try the little back and forth for a little chalk mark on the cloth, and then act surprised when they are called on it. What is the rule in regards to putting a chalk mark on the cloth at the aiming point on an object ball?

shinobi
02-09-2006, 01:16 PM
Personally, I'm not so sure I would even care that much if someone did mark the table with a chalk mark. If a player is at a level that they need that chalk mark to make the balls, I think I can probably take 'em ;)

DaveK
02-09-2006, 02:06 PM
What is the rule in regards to putting a chalk mark on the cloth at the aiming point on an object ball?

3.43 ILLEGAL MARKING
If a player intentionally marks the table in any way (including the placement of chalk) to assist in executing the shot, it is a foul.

See above for BCA-pool link. Note that this is in the General section, and applies to all games unless allowed under a specific games rules (8-Ball for example). I don't believe that any game allows marking the table.

Dave

Jerry Forsyth
02-09-2006, 03:13 PM
As I was perusing the BCA rule book on this I noticed that I cannot find the old rule which use to state that a foul had to be called prior to the next shot being executed. I can no longer locate this rule. Does anyone know if it has been eliminated or have I just missed it?

Randy G., you out there?

-Jerry

Jerry Forsyth
02-09-2006, 03:59 PM
Oops, found it! It is in the Eight Ball rules (4.20 under "note") and says: "all infractions must be called before another shot is taken, or it will be deemed that no infraction occurred."

Strange that this is just an Eight Ball rule. What prevents a yahoo from waiting for you to pocket the nine ball and saying: "You fouled on the 7?"

I know as soon as I post this I'll find the answer to that, but I have to go to a meeting so if someone else finds it first feel free to label me an idiot. The family did so years ago.

I suppose it would fall under the sportsmanship rule if nothing else. (The late call, not me being an idiot. That falls under the heredity rule.)

-Jerry

Mark Avlon
02-10-2006, 01:19 AM
Unfortunately, the World Standardized Rules sometimes do not address an issue directly or clearly, and the referee or the players must rely on references in a rule and/or the intent of the rule to make a decision.

Several rules (2.9, 2.16, 2.26, 4.20) show there is an intent that all fouls must be called before the next shot is taken or the foul is considered to not have occurred, regardless of what game is being played.

Rule 2.28, unsportsmanlike conduct, could come into play if a player persists in this behavior.

rackmsuckr
02-10-2006, 01:30 AM
LINDA
That's my point exactly- it IS an aiming device- a static aiming device left on table as you walk around table and confirm/refine final aiming for the shot.

P.S. Nice to have met you and Aunty Dan at Danny K's Last Wed. Good Shooting!! Ramin hits em pretty decent. Hope you had some luck at Hardtimes as well.

3RAILKICK

Thanks 3 railer,

I won a few matches at Hard Times. It was very nice to meet you as well!

So did you tell your opponent that it was a foul for laying his stick on the table?

3RAILKICK
02-10-2006, 06:03 PM
Thanks 3 railer,

I won a few matches at Hard Times. It was very nice to meet you as well!

So did you tell your opponent that it was a foul for laying his stick on the table?
Hello again Linda!

No, it was not my opponent. It was during another game during our match at Danny K's 9ball league on Tues nights. As such, I could not say anything during my teammate's game let alone before the next shot (made 9ball).

After the match, I discussed it briefly with one of the opposing teammembers- Marshal Jung- he said he wasn't sure- would ask Dave Hemma at H/T next time he sees him. I've seen it called at a $5000 added b4. I'll ask our local league director how he would rule if brot to his attention b4 the shot is taken.

3RAILKICK

TorranceChris
02-10-2006, 10:38 PM
Along the same line, I played in a match once where the person went down to get one of the pocketed ball to line up on a shot with. I immediately objected, but he then explained that it was a foul only if the object ball was placed on the table so that it touched the surface. I thought that was a rather convoluted ruling on his part. :rolleyes: Is it a foul to use an object ball to line up a shot ?