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Bluewolf
05-02-2003, 07:25 AM
Some have used the term right brain or left brain, for lack of better words, as it is obvious that we use our whole brain. There is an old book called "Drawing on the right side of the brain". The contention was that the analytical part of the brain uses labels such as this is a nose, and producing a poor result because they are using words rather than seeing what is actually their spatially.

It was an interesting experiment. I come from a family of artists where I could not draw well. In the book, you turn the picture upside down. Now a nose does not look like a nose, etc, and the person draws just based on seeing the angles etc. Well I was shocked. My final result was almost exactly like the original.

So there must be something to this learning style thing, no matter how one labels it. In math, for example, one learner wants to know the steps first and then the concepts. Another learner insists that they cannot learn the math unless they know the concepts first, then they can learn the steps.

In my experience, one type of learner is very focused and very good with details but often do not see all of other aspects. The other one is more distractible, not as good with detail, but can see more aspects of the situation.

It is like:
One cannot see the forest for the trees
One cannot see the trees for the forest

There is this conundrum, and I wonder if anyone/scientists or other smart people have figured this out. The artist obviously sees what is there spatially, yet most of them have difficulty with activities requing learning by sequences. OTOH, the sequential folks have better senses of direction, which is certainly a spatial skill.They are also better at math because math is taught 95% of the time, sequentially, ie do this step then this. And these guys are so fast, they learn the steps so fast, math is a cinch for many of them

Somehow, I think that this relates not only to how a person thinks, solves problems, and interacts in their relationships, but also in pool.

More women than men learn conceptually. More men than women learn steps more easily and can focus well. I think that this is a factor in less women playing pool. I do not think it is a perception of pool in a certain way or exposure to the sport, ONLY.

Learning pool, if you think about it is very detailed and many steps are learned. Some people who learn this way, are so fast at it, that they feel that they are doing it by feel, when actually they are flying through the steps fster than a locomotive.

Since I was not a steps learner (but have always tried to develop my weaker areas to be well rounded)but this is obviously required to play pool, I told ww that I would have to learn (what we called the left brained stuff) first and it would be hard and I would learn pool slowly at first. Once I learned that stuff, then I would be able to do it more naturally.

My husband is also interested in why certain persons grasp the concepts of safety more easily than others. He played on a team where all of the others were engineers, obviously brighter than average, yet had a hard time teaching this to them. This was three sessions ago.

We played this team last night and they still do not play safe. It is like their brains only see the next shot rather than all of the possibilities for the rack. Many of them are good shooters and can play shape but just have not been able to grasp 'safety play'.

Both of us have tossed this around quite a bit in terms of why certain people learn safe easily and for others it is a struggle.

Laura

Blackjack
05-02-2003, 10:31 AM
Laura,

Take what you've already learned, relax, and put the balls into the holes. The things you are worrying about are zapping energy that could be used to improve your playing. You have the materials and the tools, and you have collected a wealth of knowledge, now you have to find a away to apply it. Worrying about right/brain left brain (which is something you cannot control). Playing poll well is based on the fact that you must have perfect applications of the fundamentals. Master the mechanics of your stroke, your stance, and sighting, and learn how to put it all together. Understand that constants cannot be changed, and debating them is just a waste of energy.

Bluewolf
05-02-2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Blackjack
Laura,

Take what you've already learned, relax, and put the balls into the holes. The things you are worrying about are zapping energy that could be used to improve your playing. You have the materials and the tools, and you have collected a wealth of knowledge, now you have to find a away to apply it. Worrying about right/brain left brain (which is something you cannot control). Playing poll well is based on the fact that you must have perfect applications of the fundamentals. Master the mechanics of your stroke, your stance, and sighting, and learn how to put it all together. Understand that constants cannot be changed, and debating them is just a waste of energy.

Thanks David. At least you say things nicely.

Laura

jjinfla
05-02-2003, 01:56 PM
Laura, Pool is like typing, the less you talk about it and the more you practice the better you get. I see that you have the ability to type quite well and I am sure you are not debating why the "q" is where it is located on the keyboard, or any other character for that matter, you take it as a given and you go from there. When you started typing you would go one letter at a time and then eventually you started typing words. It just becomes automatic, just like pool. You have to train that little computer in your brain. And the only way to do that is by practice. Repetition of movements. spend more time practicing on the table and less time trying to analyze it. As Ray Martin says in his book "The 99 critical shots in Pool" you have to train your "eye, arm, brain computer". And don't worry what other people can, or can not do, just concentrate on what you can do. Jake~~~I hope you have Ray's book in your library.

Bluewolf
05-02-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by jjinfla
Laura, Pool is like typing, the less you talk about it and the more you practice the better you get.

In that case, it might take me a long time to get good at pool. My stamina is still not up to snuff, but getting better (i think) so am now up to one hour a day of pool. I think 2 would be better but I am not there yet.

Someone told me that you have to hit a million balls before you are any good. At the rate I am going, Ill be dead first...

I could still play one pocket in my 70s, even though I would get beat, by then I would not care.

Laura

1-P
05-02-2003, 03:35 PM
Laura, I am going to add my most gentle voice to those suggesting you stop worrying about all this junk--that's what it really is--and work on "your game". Period. While you're at it, stop dwelling on APA ratings, league play, competition, etc. etc. etc., because there is only one thing that matters; how well "you" play.

Now, I can just hear you saying; but I don't have a table, or I can't get to the pool room every day, or I can't afford all that practice. But those are just excuses. Nothing more than reasons for never being any better than you are right now!

You can do a world of good for your pool game right on your dining room table. That's right, no felt, no balls, no pockets. In fact, that is the beauty of it, there are no distractions--just you, the cue stick, and your brain (hopefully both sides).

Simply do the following for 15 minutes each hour you are awake:

1. Practice your preshot routine.
2. Practice your stroke.
3. Practice staying down after an imaginary shot.
4. Practice not thinking about your, or anyone else's, APA rating.

Repeat every day until you achieve every goal you have set for your pool game.

Don't thank me now. Come back in a month and blast me from here into the next galaxy if this wasn't the best free pool advice you have ever received!

Good luck,

1-P

Bluewolf
05-02-2003, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by 1-P
Laura, I am going to add my most gentle voice to those suggesting you stop worrying about all this junk--that's what it really is--and work on "your game". Period. While you're at it, stop dwelling on APA ratings, league play, competition, etc. etc. etc., because there is only one thing that matters; how well "you" play.

Now, I can just hear you saying; but I don't have a table, or I can't get to the pool room every day, or I can't afford all that practice. But those are just excuses. Nothing more than reasons for never being any better than you are right now!

Don't thank me now. Come back in a month and blast me from here into the next galaxy if this wasn't the best free pool advice you have ever received!

Good luck,

1-P

Well i will thank you and i will let you know what is happening. I do have a pool table and I do practice at least an hour a day. I pay special attention to my preshot, proper stroke etc.

Think I will one day play one pocket...I can see it now..and the young upstarts at the pool hall saying...there is that old lady stumbling up to the table on a cane and trying to get all her balls in one pocket. Cant she see the other pockets?

ROFL

Laura

boyPEKTUS
05-02-2003, 11:38 PM
creativity is a really big part of the game, but being able to execute your creative thoughts require lots of practice. you should not ponder too deeply about this, it will only mess you up. the best way is to be very observant of each shots. good luck!

maximillion
05-03-2003, 02:32 AM
read 'Cornbread Red' is a really good book, it will absorb some of that extra energy and give you a little pool moto

Hogman
05-03-2003, 06:56 PM
Wow that is a lot of people telling you to shut up in a lot of nice ways.

BTW, I am a psychologist and perception researcher and regularly think about pointless things like the relationship between EEG activity in Werneke's area and the ability to see a runout. However, psychology and actually playing pool are two related, but seperate things. When you play, relax and play. When you theorize, don't let it get in the way of your game.

maximillion
05-04-2003, 05:09 PM
"The Inner Game of Tennis" is a good book for all this brain stuff, and its not really about tennis, Got that on from az

Bluewolf
05-04-2003, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by Hogman
Wow that is a lot of people telling you to shut up in a lot of nice ways.

BTW, I am a psychologist and perception researcher and regularly think about pointless things like the relationship between EEG activity in Werneke's area and the ability to see a runout. However, psychology and actually playing pool are two related, but seperate things. When you play, relax and play. When you theorize, don't let it get in the way of your game.

I am a psychologist (non PHD) by training. I have been studying learning styles for years. Right before I started playing pool, my husband was relating to me his difficulty in teaching defensive play to certain people. He tried real hard but was not successful. Even though I did not know anything about pool, he knew I had learned a lot of learning styles and was looking for insight for teaching this to pool players.

The more I got into pool, the more I could see what he was talking about. i do not spend a lot of time thinking about this, but things like this do pop into my head on occasion.

When I am playing pool, it is kind of like art, in that other thoughts and worries fly out of my head.

Laura

jjinfla
05-05-2003, 06:19 AM
Laura, Until you reach a SL6 you will have no idea what people are saying. As a SL2 you should be a sponge, absorbing information from whomever is considerate enough to help you, not trying to convince them that they are wrong. People look to persons who are successful in their field and look to them as roll models. They do not pattern their life after the beginners. At least not if they want to become successful. In whatever endeavor they seek. Jake~~~but then, even a blind squirrel finds an occassional nut.

Bluewolf
05-05-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by jjinfla
Laura, Until you reach a SL6 you will have no idea what people are saying. As a SL2 you should be a sponge, absorbing information from whomever is considerate enough to help you, not trying to convince them that they are wrong. People look to persons who are successful in their field and look to them as roll models. They do not pattern their life after the beginners. At least not if they want to become successful. In whatever endeavor they seek. Jake~~~but then, even a blind squirrel finds an occassional nut.

Right. I live with a 7 and there are a few other sevens I talk to too to learn from.

Laura

Gerald
05-05-2003, 09:51 PM
There is an art teacher who teaches that method of still life drawing and painting at Cal State Long Beach. We have a picture in one of our bedrooms done in this manner. Your post certainly prompted some great advice. As they say master the fundamentals, such as Scott showed you, and rely on them without over analysing. Believe me there will be enough periods in your pool learning process that you will rack your brain for solutions only to find out that you already knew the solution and suddenly you are doing what you want to at the table.

Bluewolf
05-06-2003, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by Gerald
There is an art teacher who teaches that method of still life drawing and painting at Cal State Long Beach. We have a picture in one of our bedrooms done in this manner. Your post certainly prompted some great advice. As they say master the fundamentals, such as Scott showed you, and rely on them without over analysing. Believe me there will be enough periods in your pool learning process that you will rack your brain for solutions only to find out that you already knew the solution and suddenly you are doing what you want to at the table.

Yup. Funny think is that I am focussed in a match. I try to size up my opponents strengths and weaknesses as soon as I can and keep giving them their worst shots. Innings do not matter to me. Playing my best match and trying the hardest I can to win is the only thing that matters.

Practice. Lots of basics. Also work on weaknesses. If I am 50% on a certain type shot, I want it to become 80% so I have another weapon I can depend on.

To me a match is like a battle in a war. It is hiding striking, what ever you have to do to win the battle, regardless of how long it takes.

Laura

Bluewolf
05-09-2003, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by jjinfla
Laura, Until you reach a SL6 you will have no idea what people are saying. As a SL2 you should be a sponge, absorbing information from whomever is considerate enough to help you, not trying to convince them that they are wrong. People look to persons who are successful in their field and look to them as roll models. They do not pattern their life after the beginners. At least not if they want to become successful. In whatever endeavor they seek. Jake~~~but then, even a blind squirrel finds an occassional nut.

I have to respectfully disagree. From what I have seen of sl6, if I am typical of a 6, when i get there, I will STILL have much to learn. But then we are talking about pool, arent we, not whether a person has a brain.

I am better on safety that many of our field of 4s, better shape than some of the field of 4s, they shoot better. I have a spot, so sometimes beat them, most of the time they beat me. I am getting better at shooting because that is my weakest part of the triad being-shooting,safe, position.

I go to sl6 to sl7 for insight and knowlege or an sl5 who is very good on shape about that.

But, I just feel that even as a 6, I still will not know what many experienced pool players know. Think about it. If I am a six in say 3-4 years of play, that is not very much expereince in pool. How can that compare with someone who has played for twenty years and is a good player?

As far as convincing anyone on our team that they are wrong, my apa7 husband and i do discuss all of the players strengths and weakenesses, regardless of skill level. This is part of my training and enables me as a beginner to start practicing the skill of sizing up my opponents.

Sometimes when I come across the wrong way here, it is based on conversations my husband and i have had. perhaps I should clarify that more clearly.

It is my personal opinion from talking to him that shooting skills will come as i practice more and do drills. As far as the strategy part and the mental part of the game, the time to start that training is at an sl2 level so that when a person does reach a higher rank, those skills will be refined.

I think that we have kind of gotten away from the intent of my earlier post which in a roundabout ( and maybe I did not word my thoughts verywell) way was that my husband's hypothesis was that some players seemed to grasp strategy better than others. That he was able to teach some sl3 strategy while some sl4-5 did not grasp this and wondering why. And if anyone who has coached or is a teacher has run into the same thing and why do they think that is so? What techniques have been successful with these types of players who have difficulty getting past just putting the balls in the holes?

Much of this conversation occured before I picked up a cue. A person, me who was a psychologist and had worked extensively with learning styles and an apa7 who had tried very hard to teach his players to play smart, getting our brains together and seeing if we can figure this out. I guess that is why i learned safety concepts a little early. He had to explain what is was to me when I did not even yet play pool so that we could brainstorm, as he was hoping that some of my experience would give him insight.

This kind of unions in brainstorming is not that unusual. Randy g told us in pool school that there was a very good teacher who wanted to learn pool. So the teacher helped Randy learn to teach. Randy helped the teacher to learn pool.

In big organizations, they call them think tanks, there will be persons of different disciplines so that there will be more ideas.

Pool is a game. My husband and I were a 'think tank'. As I have learned a little pool, we have continued to brainstorm on this and continued to come up with strategies with he as a good pool player and me as a person who is an educatot who has worked with folks who learn and process information differently.

I could a 2, 3,x,y or z but that does not matter. I have my background of expertise, he has his.

With our new team we have a 6 who is very good at strategy,an sl4 who is good at strategy, my husband and i understand it although I am less skilled at it than they are due to their level of proficiency. We all come from differnt disciplines. One a psychologist and educator. one a cpa, one a person who has a very good marketing business and one an electrician. Very different in our fields but a very good think tank in my opinion. And by talking to all of us and others, my apa7 can gain insight into various techniques he needs to use to teach strategy to players who have a difficult time learning this.

Laura