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View Full Version : Hitting softly but still 'firmly'?


Aten
11-19-2012, 08:29 AM
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?

oldplayer
11-19-2012, 08:42 AM
i too tend to hit the ball too hard many times but i am working on using more touch..i play with a friend who LITERALLY hits every ball with only pocket speed. i mean the ball hardly gets there....problem i witness with that is, he hardly ever makes shape on the next shot. he is a great shotmaker and makes most of the balls even with lousy shape but he could be a far better player using just a little more "hit". so i am trying to reach that happy medium between "banging" it and pocket speed....i'm doing better by conciously trying to not hit another ball unless necessary while making shape on the next ball. thanks for the post, i look forward to seeing what suggestions you get.

Pidge
11-19-2012, 08:59 AM
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?
When using your normal stroke, do you have a lot of wrist action or does it stay fairly locked? You still have to accelerate through the CB even with a slow smooth stroke and a good snap of the wrist right before you contact the CB allows a slow stroke to accelerate through the CB.

If you don't usually involve your wrist in your stroke, then there will be a learning curve. You'll over draw, under draw and put unintentional english on shots usually because the wrist movement is hard to master at first. A few days of play and it will become easier.

On a side note, what tip do you use? Its easier to apply more spin on a CB with less effort with a Kamui SS than it is with a Kamui H...obviously.

Personally I have little to no movement in my wrist when I shoot. Its easier to cue straight IMO. I'd rather hit the CB a little harder and contact the CB where I want.

dr9ball
11-19-2012, 09:03 AM
Pidge, when you said "On a side note, what tip do you use? Its easier to apply more spin on a CB with less effort with a Kamui SS than it is with a Kamui H...obviously. "

Do you have a way to quantify how much more spin you feel you get with a Kamui Super Soft Tip vs a Kamui Hard?

Aten
11-19-2012, 09:13 AM
I just got a Moori S installed today actually, not really sure if I snap my wrist or not... I think there's a little forward movement in my wrist when I stroke through the CB but it's not quite obvious

Pidge
11-19-2012, 09:13 AM
This is my personal opinion, and by no means fact. I've got a Kamui SS and H on the same type of shaft and when I've tested trying to use the same speed of stroke, same CB contact point, same balls same distance etc the SS would consistently draw back 1-3 diamonds further.

Now, this is by no means a fair or scientific test. No tip, even of the same brand and hardness are the same and all tips will play different. But its the best I can do.

SMG
11-19-2012, 09:22 AM
Try a lighter or heavier cue

duckie
11-19-2012, 09:29 AM
Try this little exercise for fun.

Setup for a shot. Get the tip of the cue touching the CB. Now just stroke forward, no back stroke.

Next, do the same setup as before. Now, just use a little amount of back stroke.

Repeat adding a little more back stroke each time.

It is amazing how little back stroke one needs. It is easier to control the speed of the cue with a short back stroke and less distance for the cue to go off line.

Also, practice doing pocket speed drill. This is the drill using only enough cue ball speed to make the OB barely roll into the pocket. Do this with various distances and cut angles.

It is interesting to see how cut angle affects the speed of the OB. Once you get a feel for pocket speeds, you then can better gauge how much more speed on the CB is needed for shape. I see people all the time overshoot their position because they used more speed that was needed to pocket a ball.

And they also do not understand how the cut angle affects the transfer of energy from CB to OB and as a result the CB seems to roll forever to them.

Time is the only way to get the level of sensitivity needed to feel the cue tip as it contacts the CB.

You must train yourself in being able to use whatever cue speed is needed, from super slow to very fast. This a wide range of cue speeds and requires great skill in using your shooting muscles. It is harder then you think to shot slow. Too slow everything down.

LHP5
11-19-2012, 09:31 AM
I guess I'll chime in but this is just my experience with hitting firmly yet softly. I too wondered how some people seemed to just float there cue into the cue ball very lightly and could get good action off it. I experimented around with different kinds of strokes and then one day just realized they were simply just really following through with their stroke. I've tried it and was amazed by the results. I know it seems really basic but you'd be amazed with the amount of action you get if you just push through with your stroke a little but more. I suppose I should of known that from the beginning, but I guess it just showed a couple of flaws in my fundamentals. Hope that helps.

Donny Lutz
11-19-2012, 09:38 AM
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?

Find someone (an instructor maybe?) who can watch you play and diagnose your stroke (etc.) IN PERSON.

It's rather difficult to assess someone's game and make meaningful suggestions without actually seeing them play...

crosseyedjoe
11-19-2012, 09:44 AM
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?

By the sound of your description, it looks like you are one of those players that likes to jab the cue ball.

As you termed it softly hitting the ball but still have a lot of cue ball, I assume you mean the stroke that hits the cue at ball the lowest point of your forward swing.

Unfortunately, jabbing and low point contact are both acquired habits. Either one of them will be your natural stroke and the other will be artificial stroke (the one that you need to think about which doesn't feel right most of the time). If your natural stroke uses a jabbing like motion then you will need a lot of practice to get rid of it.

VIProfessor
11-19-2012, 09:48 AM
I would say it seems like you need to learn the "medium stroke", and I strongly recommend the Bert Kinister "Shot # 1" for this. Set up an object ball and the cue ball about a quarter-inch from the long rail, with the object ball three diamonds away from the far corner and the cue ball two diamonds away from the near corner. What you're doing here is not quite a stop shot. You want the cue ball to roll forward exactly one revolution, thus replacing the object ball instead of stopping dead. You're hitting with center ball, but at the speed where it stops sliding just before it hits the object ball. This requires a somewhat firm, but not hard stroke, and will improve your stroke quality and accuracy. Do about 100 of those a day and see what happens over the course of a month. I think you'll be pleased.


And most important, make sure your grip hand is relaxed and follow through the ball!

o.g. (old guy)
11-19-2012, 09:50 AM
I think LHP5 hit it right on the head. A good follow through makes a world of difference when shooting softly.

thintowin
11-19-2012, 10:10 AM
in my opinion u maybe trying to over compensate from being a banger and someone who plays pocket speed. maybe your makeup is not condusive to a soft stroke. I have played many a player who didn't possess the "soft stroke", but they could still hand you your hat. I do possess the "soft stroke" but that skill came by way of necessity because 1 pocket was one of the first games i learned to play competitively (gamble). I understand the need to have another arrow in your quiver but i also don't think u should ditch your entire game just because you are not immediately proficient at the soft stroke. take your time and experiment with different advise and aids but remember there are worse things than not having a "pure stroke".

MitchAlsup
11-19-2012, 10:13 AM
Here is a practice technique to develop softness.

Take the CB and stroke the cue such that the CB rolls exactly 1 diamond (without hitting anything). When you get this one down, roll the CB 2 diamonds,...

You simply cannot hit the CB too hard and have it stop in 1 diamond (unless you are using lots of massť.)

ENGLISH!
11-19-2012, 10:23 AM
You must train yourself in being able to use whatever cue speed is needed, from super slow to very fast. This a wide range of cue speeds and requires great skill in using your shooting muscles. It is harder then you think to shot slow. Too slow everything down.

All good drills & advice from Duckie. That is also why I prefer a lighter cue as I feel I can always add power but it is harder to dial down a heavy cue.

Snapshot9
11-19-2012, 10:45 AM
for hitting a shot softly, especially when the cue ball has to follow the shot a certain amount of distance.

One is too simply use follow and too slow your stroke down to the proper speed for the cue ball to follow forward the amount of distance. This is how I do these shots and have no trouble with them.

The second method is to hit a stun or semi-stun shot firmer, and have the cue ball follow. I feel these type of shots is actually harder to perform where you can tell how far forward the cue ball will roll after performing them.

Either way you need to practice these shots, both ways, until you feel halfway comfortable with both methods.

duckie
11-19-2012, 01:08 PM
for hitting a shot softly, especially when the cue ball has to follow the shot a certain amount of distance.

One is too simply use follow and too slow your stroke down to the proper speed for the cue ball to follow forward the amount of distance. This is how I do these shots and have no trouble with them.

The second method is to hit a stun or semi-stun shot firmer, and have the cue ball follow. I feel these type of shots is actually harder to perform where you can tell how far forward the cue ball will roll after performing them.

Either way you need to practice these shots, both ways, until you feel halfway comfortable with both methods.

The angle of the cut and distance from the pocket to the OB is key to how much speed is needed to make the OB. On a high angle cut shot, like 80 degrees or more and say 2 ft from the pocket, requires a lot of CB speed to make it even for just pocket speed.

Set up a ball on the center of the table. Setup a high angle cut shot into one of the side pockets. Shoot the shot and try to put the CB on the end rail.

Set it up again, this time stop the CB mid table.

Keep doing this having the CB stop a different places on the table. Remember 80 degrees or more for the cut angle.

TATE
11-19-2012, 04:30 PM
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?

It's not necessarily a bad thing to be a power player, but it's definitely a good thing to develop the finesse part of the game too. I, on the other hand, have more problems with the power game.

The players who hit soft shots that still get good cue ball action are usually due to generating more spin or playing a little further from center than you're used to.

Efren is a really good example. It shows up more when you're watching him play live. He looks like he's delicaltely caressing the cue ball, yet it motors around like a gyroscope. Jose Parica also comes to mind. On the other side, I consider Johnny Archer more of a power player. He uses more stun and directs the cue ball around on laser-like tangents.

The trick to the soft game is to understand the relationship between forward speed and spin. Spin off the rails is a lot more effective at lower speeds. The spin "takes" better at slower rail contact speeds generating motion when it's at a helping angle. The other thing is to get further from center of the cue ball and use less force. Say you want to draw the ball a foot or two on a short shot, just hit it easy but get the tip as low as possible.

Here's a good shot to practice using inside english to see if you're really spinning the ball as much as you think and to demonstrate that slower speeds let the english grab better. If you use enough spin and especially at a low enough speed you will be able to make the cue ball cross over the spot. If you hit it too hard, the spin won't take. The goal is to first get to shot A where the cue ball comes straight back, then shot B where the cue ball actually reverses direction off the rail. If you can master these shots, inside will never scare you again!

oldzilla
11-19-2012, 05:17 PM
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?

Oh man, I think I see a whole new sub-forum coming !

Your talking about feeling what you are doing and becoming one with the cueball.

This is galactic super advanced pool 1001.

IT IS whats it's all about !

Better wait for help, I haven't the time left to explain it all.

But I think you're on the right track. :cool::cool:

Besides you already have the key word, "feel". Feel it !

Dunnn51
11-19-2012, 09:30 PM
If you are talking about how a top player hits a ball with an "effortless" motion,.... that is top-follow.
They don't change their cue, or their stroke, or handle position on their cue; they change contact position on the cue ball. Just last night I played a top player in my pool hall, and he went into top follow against me playing 10 ball. He would run out rack, after rack, after rack with that "effortless" tap on the rock occasionally using 1 or 2 rails.
When good players use it, they make whitey on the felt look like a swan swimming on a still lake.

My swan stops, ducks, and goes in circles every so often !! :thud:

Dunnn51
11-19-2012, 10:00 PM
for hitting a shot softly, especially when the cue ball has to follow the shot a certain amount of distance.

One is too simply use follow and too slow your stroke down to the proper speed for the cue ball to follow forward the amount of distance. This is how I do these shots and have no trouble with them.

The second method is to hit a stun or semi-stun shot firmer, and have the cue ball follow. I feel these type of shots is actually harder to perform where you can tell how far forward the cue ball will roll after performing them.

Either way you need to practice these shots, both ways, until you feel halfway comfortable with both methods.

Sorry snap, I didn't see your post when I typed this. REP for You !!! :thumbup:

Arlene
11-19-2012, 10:36 PM
Firmly yet softly.....one is not banging the ball wildly or timidly hitting the ball hoping it might go in.
The fellow that taught me once said," hit the ball with authority."
It's the feeling that you are in control of the ball.

Patrick Johnson
11-20-2012, 02:11 AM
This is my personal opinion, and by no means fact. I've got a Kamui SS and H on the same type of shaft and when I've tested trying to use the same speed of stroke, same CB contact point, same balls same distance etc the SS would consistently draw back 1-3 diamonds further.
Tip hardness shouldn't matter - maybe you're more comfortable hitting lower on the CB with a softer tip (because it feels like it won't miscue as easily).

I think the way to learn soft shots is simple and obvious: practice them.

pj
chgo

PDX
11-20-2012, 02:44 AM
I call it "stroking through the cue ball". It's a simple and pure stroke that took me years to realize. It's all about controlling the rock. Pocketing balls is secondary.

joelpope
11-20-2012, 05:27 AM
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?
If you grip your cue tightly you will kill all the action

Think of it as delivering the cue as opposed to hitting the cue ball

joelpope
11-20-2012, 05:29 AM
Pidge, when you said "On a side note, what tip do you use? Its easier to apply more spin on a CB with less effort with a Kamui SS than it is with a Kamui H...obviously. "

Do you have a way to quantify how much more spin you feel you get with a Kamui Super Soft Tip vs a Kamui Hard?
That's funny... Different strokes for different folks

I get more action from hard tips, much crisper hit with more precise energy transfer

CreeDo
11-20-2012, 08:34 AM
Aten, don't overthink it :) It's common sense physics.

Getting more action = getting more spin.
Getting more spin can be done in two ways:

1. Hit harder
2. Hit further away from center

You're trying to avoid doing 1. So what's that leave you?

Practice putting the tip a little further out than you're comfortable with, and make sure you actually hit where you intend to on your final stroke. A lot of players don't, especially trying heavy draw. An easy trick to detect this problem: Grab a striped ball, clean it off, and use it as your cue ball. Pick a point on the ball where you want your tip to hit. Now chalk up like mad and hit your striped cue ball. Afterwards if you pick it up you should see a chalk mark where you actually struck. Was it where you intended? If not, that's where you need to put your focus.

A fun way to test your ability to put maximum draw on a ball while stroking soft, is to figure out the minimum amount of force you need to do a stop shot at a certain distance (say, 3 diamonds). You'd be surprised at just how softly you can hit a ball and still make it stop dead. And you'll find you can hold slight cut shots without allowing the cue ball to move much.

Patrick Johnson
11-20-2012, 03:36 PM
CreeDo:
Getting more action = getting more spin.
Getting more spin can be done in two ways:

1. Hit harder
2. Hit further away from center
Hitting harder doesn't give you more "action"; only hitting farther from center does that. Hitting harder increases RPMs and CB speed together - for more "action" you need to increase spin more than you increase speed - that means hitting farther from center.

pj
chgo

Tramp Steamer
11-20-2012, 03:45 PM
Practice some simple bank shots, making each one softer than the one before.
Also, make sure you're not elevating the cue too much. Try keeping it as level as possible.
Remember: Soft, softer, softest. :smile:

3kushn
11-20-2012, 04:22 PM
Try to push the ball or try to keep the cue tip in contact as long as possible. Neither can be done. Just try.

Smooth follow "through the ball."

So many people have good follow through, but still punch or slap the ball. Follow through does not define a good stroke. Its just one result of a good stroke.

Slasher
11-20-2012, 04:27 PM
If you are not getting the desired reaction from the CB then you are not hitting where you think you are, "effect" to find the cause you need to look at your execution.

Grip: not too tight as to pull the cue off it's natural path

Sight: are you having one last look at the CB before delivering so you are sure where you are striking?

Tension: no tension in the forearm, wrist, bicep or grip as this will decrease cue speed and pull the cue off line.

Transition: from back-swing to forward, pause at back to allow smooth transition and accelerate.

Deceleration: requires tension and will pull the cue offline.

Siz
11-21-2012, 11:13 AM
The last 2 posts (3Kushn & Slasher) are spot on imho. The one thing I would add is to try to feel your arm accelerating as slowly as possible from its position at the end of the backswing.

duckie
11-21-2012, 11:49 AM
If you are not getting the desired reaction from the CB then you are not hitting where you think you are, "effect" to find the cause you need to look at your execution.

Grip: not too tight as to pull the cue off it's natural path

Sight: are you having one last look at the CB before delivering so you are sure where you are striking?

Tension: no tension in the forearm, wrist, bicep or grip as this will decrease cue speed and pull the cue off line.

Transition: from back-swing to forward, pause at back to allow smooth transition and accelerate.

Deceleration: requires tension and will pull the cue offline.

A cue does not have a natural path, only the path you give it and this has nothing to do with grip pressure,tension, deceleration.

There must be a certain amount of tension in any muscle in order for the muscle to work. The key is not to have too little nor too much. Watch how violinist use their bow arm. You do not to be too tense because this will impede fine muscle control. Too little, there is no fine muscle control.

Cue stick speed, cue angle of attack, playing conditions, and where and how the CB is stroked are what affects the action of the CB.

I can shoot one handed shots, put spin on the ball, getting the position needed for the next shot. The reason I mentioned this is because it goes almost against everything in the quote.

Pay more attention to your cue speed. Slow down, keeping a steady, not accelerating speed through the contact with the CB. If you do it right, it will not feel as if your hitting the CB at all, but more pushing it on its way.

A small change in cue speed has a great affect on how the CB reacts. 14.1 is good practice for learning how to move the CB around at slow speeds using just the right amount of spin.

ndakotan
11-21-2012, 12:10 PM
Sorry, but I completely disagree. Tension in the forearm and use of the shoulder/body tension completely change the track of the cue. You have to see someone line up correctly, then jerk stroke the ball and completely miss the object ball in order to see it, but it happens. When they jerk stroke, they tighten up their arm, flexing the tendons/muscles in the arm, causing the arm to move sideways, thereby affecting the line of the aim. If your statement were true, a jerk stroke would not cause a miss, just an ugly speed control. Jerk strokes are generally hit hard, causing a wider miss. It is difficult to badly jerk stroke a softly hit ball. I have absolutely seen other jerk stroke, and I've been known to do it on occassion. The action should not be pushing the cue through your bridge hand, but letting your arm fall forward with some bravado (can't think of a better word just now) and following through. Visually aiming correctly (which takes some practice and coaching for many) is also crucial. I wish you were correct, I'd be a much better player. I am hampered by my inability to consistently stroke the same way every time. Grip pressure, tension, and no deceleration are the 3 keys.


A cue does not have a natural path, only the path you give it and this has nothing to do with grip pressure,tension, deceleration.

There must be a certain amount of tension in any muscle in order for the muscle to work. The key is not to have too little nor too much. Watch how violinist use their bow arm. You do not to be too tense because this will impede fine muscle control. Too little, there is no fine muscle control.

Cue stick speed, cue angle of attack, playing conditions, and where and how the CB is stroked are what affects the action of the CB.

I can shoot one handed shots, put spin on the ball, getting the position needed for the next shot. The reason I mentioned this is because it goes almost against everything in the quote.

Pay more attention to your cue speed. Slow down, keeping a steady, not accelerating speed through the contact with the CB. If you do it right, it will not feel as if your hitting the CB at all, but more pushing it on its way.

A small change in cue speed has a great affect on how the CB reacts. 14.1 is good practice for learning how to move the CB around at slow speeds using just the right amount of spin.

Slasher
11-21-2012, 12:12 PM
A cue does not have a natural path, only the path you give it and this has nothing to do with grip pressure,tension, deceleration.
Yes these things do affect your ability to push the cue through in a straight line

There must be a certain amount of tension in any muscle in order for the muscle to work. The key is not to have too little nor too much. Watch how violinist use their bow arm. You do not to be too tense because this will impede fine muscle control. Too little, there is no fine muscle control.

Cue stick speed, cue angle of attack, playing conditions, and where and how the CB is stroked are what affects the action of the CB.
How has nothing to do with reaction, only speed, angle and point of contact

I can shoot one handed shots, put spin on the ball, getting the position needed for the next shot. The reason I mentioned this is because it goes almost against everything in the quote.
This has nothing to do with my points only that you have the talent to hit the CB where you want t o one handed, I have two hands so I like to use them, sort of fork vs chopsticks if you will.

Pay more attention to your cue speed. Slow down, keeping a steady, not accelerating speed through the contact with the CB. If you do it right, it will not feel as if your hitting the CB at all, but more pushing it on its way.
Not accelerating can cause you to effect the straight path of the cue.

A small change in cue speed has a great affect on how the CB reacts. 14.1 is good practice for learning how to move the CB around at slow speeds using just the right amount of spin.


Pretty much everything you suggested goes against the teachings of the majority of professional coaches.... odd?

ENGLISH!
11-21-2012, 12:37 PM
So I feel like this is the next big thing I have to change to step up my game... I think I hit the ball waaaaaaaaay too hard most of the time.

I hear a lot of people talking about hitting the ball "pure" or hitting the ball softly yet firmly. I have tried slowing down my backswing but I feel like I am not getting the same effect as those who do have a pure stroke. Their hits seem "light" yet the cue ball still reacts beautifully... when I try to hit "softly" all that happens is the cue ball seems to 1. not take spin and 2. react very lazily, usually resulting in a pretty shaky hit.

Does anybody have any advice on this point? How can I "feel" the ball better while still having a solid grasp of speed and spin?

This may be a little late, but what hardness of tip are you using & on what weight cue? I think they both affect 'feel'.

I have always used a soft tip & a lighter cue for this reason. I can always add power when I want but it is harder to hit soft enough at times. I 'feel' that the softer tip allows me to put more spin to speed in that ratio & it allows a bit more stroke without the Cue Ball exploding off of the cue.

I think the discussion has also perhaps splintered into a discussion of the typical stroke vs that of a specialty stroke. There is a certain soft shot that I have to hit with my bridge hand oscillating up & down a bit coordinated with the back & forth of the cue. I have tried to hit this shot without doing so but with no where near the same success.

Some of what Duckie says can be functional if not typical.

Regards,

Aten
11-21-2012, 05:02 PM
This may be a little late, but what hardness of tip are you using & on what weight cue? I think they both affect 'feel'.


Moori soft, 19 ounce cue

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

ENGLISH!
11-21-2012, 05:26 PM
Moori soft, 19 ounce cue

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

That certainly seems okay. I prefer a bit lighter cue but that's just preference.

Since I've been experimenting with CJ Wiley's athletic grip I've not yet been able to find what you are looking for. I have it with my grip & way of playing, but with the firmer more athletic grip I have yet to find the 'touch' & 'feel' portion. As with any change, I know it will take time should I decide to really go for the change.

That being said, maybe it is your grip or wrist that is keeping you from finding 'it'. Do you have the ability to post a video of yourself? If so, I'm sure you will get some very constructive critique.

Good Luck on the Journey & Best Wishes,

Aten
11-21-2012, 10:14 PM
That certainly seems okay. I prefer a bit lighter cue but that's just preference.

Since I've been experimenting with CJ Wiley's athletic grip I've not yet been able to find what you are looking for. I have it with my grip & way of playing, but with the firmer more athletic grip I have yet to find the 'touch' & 'feel' portion. As with any change, I know it will take time should I decide to really go for the change.

That being said, maybe it is your grip or wrist that is keeping you from finding 'it'. Do you have the ability to post a video of yourself? If so, I'm sure you will get some very constructive critique.

Good Luck on the Journey & Best Wishes,

After reading the 3 pages on this thread, I think the solution lies within my grip, backswing, and delivery. I'll try to record a segment when I hit the practice table tonight. Thanks for the blessings!

Here's a small clip from around last month that I uploaded a few days ago, I haven't been diligent about recording my practices but this was a quick segment captured by a friend. It doesn't manage to snap a direct view of my backarm + wrist during my stroke though so I'll post a new one today.

https://vimeo.com/53866059

Slasher
11-21-2012, 10:48 PM
I see a bit of deceleration, probably a by-product of trying to over extend the follow through with the elbow drop, most notable on the 8 ball. I would Look for a more positive stroke accelerating.

Siz
11-22-2012, 01:31 AM
Agreed - try to hit the white with more authority.

duckie
11-22-2012, 03:58 AM
Theres nothing wrong with what you are doing. What I feel is happening and this is from watching others practice is a lack of structured practice.

Most I see just put the balls out there, mostly 9 ball, and start playing. Seldom do I see anyone practice speed control, banks, kicks, caroms, combos and a few more. Seldom do I see them setup a shot they miss and do it at least 15 times.

I've yet to see anyone just put 1 OB on the table and practice going 2 rails to hit it and so on.

My suggestion is to practice 14.1 and do slow pocket speed drills, before changing anything. If you have a certain shot that gives you issues, spend some time on that shot till you own it.

By having a structured practice routine, you will naturally develop what works for you. For this structured routine to be effective, you must be honest with yourself about your true playing level. Meaning, you have to know your strengths and weakness. These will always be changing as you evolve as a pool player.

If you just are practicing your strengths, that is your biggest weakness.