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smooth stroker
11-21-2012, 04:08 AM
Why not woman and men compete together? They should be equal in every respect in billiards. Has this been covered before?

weakfingers
11-21-2012, 04:29 AM
I always thought billiards was a male-centric sport only because there are more men playing it (for whatever reason, most likely cultural alpha-male dominance, the image of smoky pool halls back in the day).

I really believe if there were the same number of women playing as men, the playing field would be even. It's a game of finesse, not strength. The only advantage men have (and this has been discussed before) is the break IMO.

VIProfessor
11-21-2012, 04:42 AM
I always thought billiards was a male-centric sport only because there are more men playing it (for whatever reason, most likely cultural alpha-male dominance, the image of smoky pool halls back in the day).

I really believe if there were the same number of women playing as men, the playing field would be even. It's a game of finesse, not strength. The only advantage men have (and this has been discussed before) is the break IMO.

If, as many have estimated, the break amounts to one-third of the game, that's a pretty big advantage!

Cornerman
11-21-2012, 04:45 AM
Why not woman and men compete together? They should be equal in every respect in billiards. Has this been covered before?

Covered many times a year.

Whatever the reasons ( and there are many legitimate reason), the level of play for the average female is still below the men. As more ladies have been playing and more female mentors and inspiration are now available, I think the gap is closing. Actually, there's no doubt the gap is closing.

But, the gap remains. Lets not deny the women their own competitive arena. Their own division / league /association can only help to strengthen the overall women's game.

In many amateur events, it's open to both genders. The DCC is open to both etc.

Freddie <~~~ has no problem getting beaten by girls

scsuxci
11-21-2012, 06:41 AM
Why not woman and men compete together? They should be equal in every respect in billiards. Has this been covered before?
I've been hearing more and more lately about Women wanting to
compete with Men in the sports of there choosing.
Look,I watch some womens sports but from the debates I've heard,
its not even about the sport but about there''rights'' to play in them.

If they feel that beating a Man is so remarkable, then to me
its self admitting that there already putting the Man on a
Level above there own.

I feel keep them separated,way to much Drama if this crap starts
Damn Womens Lib:)

oldplayer
11-21-2012, 06:44 AM
let's take yesterday as an example.....while at the pool hall yesterday there was this young girl..about 20 yrs old with perfect C+s hanging out especially when bent over shooting......how would a guy compete against that, considering the need to "focus"? :wink: so unless the guys want to lose............

KoolKat9Lives
11-21-2012, 07:45 AM
Women are often permitted to play in "men's" tourneys. But men, to my knowledge, are never permitted to play in "women's" tourneys.

As contradictory as that is, that's ok by me.

Signed,

Renee Richards ;)

Pete
11-21-2012, 08:11 AM
Women are often permitted to play in "men's" tourneys. But men, to my knowledge, are never permitted to play in "women's" tourneys.

As contradictory as that is, that's ok by me.

Signed,

Renee Richards ;)

Well if strong playong women can play in men's tournaments, then weak playing men should be able to play in the women's tournaments.:eek:

NO wait, that's sexist isn't it?:sorry:

Maybe we just need to really define skill level, and let that be the deciding vote on when you can play. Oh but no, then C players that try to step up won't be able to play.:frown:

Wow, what a tough subject this it...:p

naji
11-21-2012, 08:17 AM
Why not woman and men compete together? They should be equal in every respect in billiards. Has this been covered before?

I think the best to answer this question is women, hope the Black Widow sees this post!

My 2 cents , women by nature or by choice have different priorities than men, for sure when it comes to kids, if both man and woman play pool who is taking care of kids! or mom or pop!
For single woman, yes they can compete to a point, when clock starts ticking! the fun begins.

peteypooldude
11-21-2012, 08:23 AM
Why not woman and men compete together? They should be equal in every respect in billiards. Has this been covered before?

For some reason women just don't play as strong.
Seems like they could but I have yet to see it. To me I feel
Like they top out about an "A" player . They seem to be a couple balls off our top pros. Beats me

bdorman
11-21-2012, 08:32 AM
I'm new to the game and unsure about the current criteria for entry into a tournament. What I've gleaned from posts/threads is that you need 1) your entry fee and 2) some kind of track record. This thread adds the element of gender.

I say let's eliminate the gender requirement. If you've got a track record and can pay your entry fee...you're in.

But I suspect that the top women players will believe they can win more prize money in a Women's Event than in an All-Gender Event.

CreeDo
11-21-2012, 08:46 AM
Popular question, and lots of theories about it, here's a list.
These aren't all things I necessarily believe, just that I've seen mentioned a lot.

While physical strength isn't an issue for most shots, it may have a role in the break, which has a big role in popular games like 8b, 9b, 10b.

Testosterone plays a part in how competitive and aggressive people are, and women don't have as much as men, so they may not feel the same urge to compete and win. They prefer to play socially.

The atmosphere at a pool hall is usually pretty male/macho and women may feel uncomfortable spending time in these places. Players woof, talk trash and match up, and when lots of males get together in a social setting, certain parts of their personality come out strongly. For example they might be more likely to make sexual comments about women, when hanging out with other males at the pool hall. Even in this thread it only took 5 posts before someone made a "hurrr, titties!" type of comment.

Somewhat related, but in any situation where there there's a lot more males than females, the female will get hit on a lot, and having to constantly fend off men's advances may be enough to keep them out of the pool hall.

There are subtle differences in brain chemistry. There was an interesting study cited in a documentary about the Polgar sisters (Judit Polgar was at one point ranked #8 in the world in chess, an activity that's very male-dominated otherwise). In the study, men did certain tasks such as navigating a maze differently from women. Specifically, the men wanted to visualize the overall maze while women relied on specific landmarks. It's possible men just 'see the angles' differently (maybe better?) than women.

Women, when they do compete, may prefer to do so on the team. They are taught early on to be social and learn how to get along with others. They might have plenty of enthusiasm for a team challenge (like league matches) but not so much for one-on-one competition.

It may just be a vicious cycle. There are already lots of men, which leads to women feeling out of place, which causes fewer of them to compete, which leads to the field being mostly men. If you could wave a wand and have half the field in any tournament be strong female players, would that situation persist for the next 10 years? Or would the women gradually drop out and the sport eventually become male-dominated again?

There are probably others I've seen and I'm forgetting.

My feeling is that it's not a physical issue (like the break). Cloth is getting faster, racks are getting tighter, soft-breaking is now A Thing. And pool is not rocket science, so I don't think it's because women might have some tiny issue that makes them 0.5% less able to 'visualize' than males.

I think it's just a mix of social factors (like the fact that the pool world is very macho) and possibly a brain chemistry thing that makes women less likely to badly want to dominate everyone else in the field.

decent dennis
11-21-2012, 08:46 AM
For some reason women just don't play as strong.
Seems like they could but I have yet to see it. To me I feel
Like they top out about an "A" player . They seem to be a couple balls off our top pros. Beats me

You think allison in her prime, Balukas inher's were about "A" players?

peteypooldude
11-21-2012, 08:54 AM
You think allison in her prime, Balukas inher's were about "A" players?

Yes, not trying to be shovenist about it.
But that how I see it. Maybe a little better than "A" in their case but still can't come within 2 balls of the top men

highkarate
11-21-2012, 09:15 AM
didn't jasmin get 3rd in some big 10 ball event like a year ago? some women can break 10 ball just as well as the guys, ive seen it. some of the chinese women could win men's pro events for sure. i think its only a matter of time

Luther Blissett
11-21-2012, 09:33 AM
Probably fifty years from now the idea of having separate pool leagues for men and women will be as unthinkable as having separate leagues for black people and white people.

parvus1202
11-21-2012, 09:52 AM
Isn't pool and billiards considered sports? Then it will be run like any other sports, men and women. Like ATP and WTA, or golf, diving, cycling etc. But that doesn't mean men and women cannot compete in one tour, for improvement purposes. Any organizer can invite both. But in world championships or WPA sanctioned, let them be organized separately, as it should be.

cueman
11-21-2012, 10:35 AM
If it was only the break then women would have won world championships in straight pool and one pocket against men. Now I know some have done well against the men in those games, but they still are not up there with the top men. Who knows why?

alstl
11-21-2012, 11:31 AM
They do compete together most of the time.

Pidge
11-21-2012, 11:44 AM
I don't know why they don't compete together. I could understand if women were at a physical disadvantage. Darts has kind of implemented a unisex approach lately. I remember a Dutch woman playing in a mens tournament against world class players and she wiped the floor with them!

I think they should compete together. There isn't a woman out there at the moment to challenge being the best in the world but there are plenty who would give some of the best in the mens game a run for their money.

Cornerman
11-21-2012, 11:58 AM
Popular question, and lots of theories about it, here's a list.
These aren't all things I necessarily believe, just that I've seen mentioned a lot.

• While physical strength isn't an issue for most shots, it may have a role in the break, which has a big role in popular games like 8b, 9b, 10b.

Whenever this subject comes around, I always talk about physicality, balance and coordination, but not brute strength. The conversation usually goes nowhere.

There are probably others I've seen and I'm forgetting.

.Breasts. Men don't have to deal with them. Many women do. It can be dealt with, but let's face it: for pool the cue stick tends to stroke around the chest area. It simply has to be dealt with, which just adds one more obstacle (punny).

Freddie <~~~ has enough obstacles

naji
11-21-2012, 12:04 PM
Whenever this subject comes around, I always talk about physicality, balance and coordination, but not brute strength. The conversation usually goes nowhere.

Breasts. Men don't have to deal with them. Many women do. It can be dealt with, but let's face it: for pool the cue stick tends to stroke around the chest area. It simply has to be dealt with, which just adds one more obstacle (punny).

Freddie <~~~ has enough obstacles

watch it ! you gonna get nailed by woman ABer!! let me get zapped too! when woman bend down it might make them uncomfortable for lots of "dry men" looking!!!

the kidd
11-21-2012, 12:12 PM
Now the soft 9 ball break is used by many top players successfully. Beside Bustimonte is not that strong and has a powerful break. No I think the right answer is not as many woman as men playing. Plus

mikeyfrost
11-21-2012, 12:35 PM
Ib don't see much of a physical advantage in pool. Only answer is guy's don't wanna lose to women or women can't compete.

randyg
11-23-2012, 08:54 AM
A long, long time ago in a World far different from present we all existed together. How long ago? So long ago the WPBA had not yet formed. In that time long ago, Women & Men played in the same brackets, same game, side by side, maybe not fair but nevertheless....true......:eek:

UNTIL!

A fair young lass named Jean destroyed a monster lad named Steve in a very prestigious tournament. The monster had his feelings hurt....:embarrassed2:

Not long after that happening a proclamation went out (from the mighty PBA or whomever) to the pool World that only men could play in their sanctioned events......:sorry:

Shortly after that edict the fair lasses of pool bonded together and that group started their own pool organization (aka WPBA).....:p

Now we all live happy ever after........:smile:

In essense, blame it on the Bossa Nova.....:wink:

randyg

pt109
11-23-2012, 09:37 AM
A long, long time ago in a World far different from present we all existed together. How long ago? So long ago the WPBA had not yet formed. In that time long ago, Women & Men played in the same brackets, same game, side by side, maybe not fair but nevertheless....true......:eek:

UNTIL!

A fair young lass named Jean destroyed a monster lad named Steve in a very prestigious tournament. The monster had his feelings hurt....:embarrassed2:

Not long after that happening a proclamation went out (from the mighty PBA or whomever) to the pool World that only men could play in their sanctioned events......:sorry:

Shortly after that edict the fair lasses of pool bonded together and that group started their own pool organization (aka WPBA).....:p

Now we all live happy ever after........:smile:

In essense, blame it on the Bossa Nova.....:wink:

randyg
Yeah, I remember when the PBA became the MPBA....
...and I spoke against it...I felt the PBA should be open.

However, if you took the top 5,000 billiard players in history....
...I doubt any of them are women.

I look at these games as 'war' games...
..men are warriors
..women are nurturers
Vive le difference

Shazar
11-23-2012, 09:59 AM
Women and mention are currently not at same speed when comparing top players

Allison Fisher would get a really big spot from SVB

randyg
11-24-2012, 08:29 AM
We are not talking about winning or losing but the chance to compete against the opposite sex.

randyg

JC
11-24-2012, 08:38 AM
Probably fifty years from now the idea of having separate pool leagues for men and women will be as unthinkable as having separate leagues for black people and white people.

Probably not. From a competitive standpoint men and women will never be the same. Nature can't help that. And who would want it anyway? Black and white have always been the same in that regard however.

JC