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View Full Version : How does Simonis cloth compare for durability?


bdorman
11-23-2012, 03:20 PM
I've recommended to our condo board that we replace the existing cloth (unknown brand) with Simonis 860HR in Tournament Blue.

Since then, I've played at two pool rooms that had Simonis 860 (don't know if it was HR or not). It could be that the cloth was just old, but the wear really showed. Not just in the rack area, but also heavy "white'ing wear" from the cue ball paths on the side rails to the one-ball position.

The condo members will be disappointed if it shows that kind of wear within 1 or 2 years. The table gets about 25 hours of play a week but none of us are monster breakers, etc. We've already agreed that there won't be any jumping on the new cloth unless you put a spare piece of cloth under the cue ball.

So what's your experience? Is Simonis 860HR in Tournament Blue a durable choice?

Thanks.

Scott Lee
11-23-2012, 03:28 PM
Yes, it is a durable, quality product. All cloth will show wear. If you and your condo fellows want "perfect" cloth...don't play on it! LOL Just kidding...the cloth in the pool room gets a lot more play than 25 hours a week. Nonetheless, all cloth should last at least a year or more...Simonis certainly will. One more thing...make sure you have a mechanic who knows how to install Simonis cloth. It makes a difference.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

juegabillar
11-23-2012, 03:30 PM
I've recommended to our condo board that we replace the existing cloth (unknown brand) with Simonis 860HR in Tournament Blue.

Since then, I've played at two pool rooms that had Simonis 860 (don't know if it was HR or not). It could be that the cloth was just old, but the wear really showed. Not just in the rack area, but also heavy "white'ing wear" from the cue ball paths on the side rails to the one-ball position.

The condo members will be disappointed if it shows that kind of wear within 1 or 2 years. The table gets about 25 hours of play a week but none of us are monster breakers, etc. We've already agreed that there won't be any jumping on the new cloth unless you put a spare piece of cloth under the cue ball.

So what's your experience? Is Simonis 860HR in Tournament Blue a durable choice?

Thanks.

Professional Cloths are too thin, and will wear quite easily. If you are saying that the condo members will be dissapointed if it shows excessive wear within 1 year, then Simonis is not the cloth you should install.

Just my 2 cents.

3RAILKICK
11-23-2012, 03:39 PM
Is the existing cloth a heavy nap, slow cloth?

Maybe do one in the existing cloth for continuity of playing conditions. The other 860HR..for the sports car enthusiasts.

Evaluate the wear and popularity of both.

Good luck with acceptance of change.

bdorman
11-23-2012, 03:55 PM
Is the existing cloth a heavy nap, slow cloth?

Maybe do one in the existing cloth for continuity of playing conditions. The other 860HR..for the sports car enthusiasts.

Evaluate the wear and popularity of both.

Good luck with acceptance of change.

The existing cloth feels very slow compared to the pool room tables I've played on.

We've only got one table, otherwise we'd love to have two different cloths to compare.

You've hit the nail on the head regarding "Acceptance of change" :wink: I'm still trying to get them to make 8- and 10-ball into call-pocket games.

Pidge
11-23-2012, 04:13 PM
I've got 860 on my table and have had for while now. I put around 20-30 hours in a week on it shows white marks in various high usage spots. its purely cosmetic and the table plays just as good as when it was new, and personally I don't care if my table had beers stains all over as long as it played great.

If its the white marks that are putting people off, I'm not sure but I guess Simonis have a light coloured cloth like white, cream or light grey. They won't show up nearly as much as tournament blue does.

Schwinn
11-23-2012, 04:49 PM
Yes 860 shows white spots right away, near the rail where you break 9 ball and tracks to the rack. And random other spots. They developed within a few days or weeks on mine. It's cosmetic as far as I can tell.

boyersj
11-23-2012, 04:58 PM
I have had both 860 and 860HR and the 860HR is REALLY showing no signs of wear after 6 weeks of very heavy usage. 860 would have begun to show the white or burn marks while this stuff hasn't It looks as good as the day it was installed. It also has a better silkier feel to it than does the 860.

My father had the old nappy cloth on his table and it didn't really wear that well either. It pills and as a result it degrades at a much faster pace. I very highly recommend 860HR.

One very important note, make sure to buy (if you do not already have) a brushless vacuum and a simonis x1 cloth cleaner - the importance of keeping cloth clean increases life cannot be ignored. Once a week, takes 10 - 15 mins and I am certain your cloth life will increase significantly.

arnaldo
11-23-2012, 05:42 PM
Anyone have comments about 860 HR in high humidity months compared to standard 860? I believe the HR has a higher nylon content.

(I seem to recall one mechanic posting something on AZB about 860 HR requiring re-tightening under those conditions even with good air conditioning.) Possibly the HR wasn't installed correctly initially, by a different table mechanic.

Arnaldo

ChicagoRJ
11-23-2012, 10:09 PM
I've recommended to our condo board that we replace the existing cloth (unknown brand) with Simonis 860HR in Tournament Blue.

Since then, I've played at two pool rooms that had Simonis 860 (don't know if it was HR or not). It could be that the cloth was just old, but the wear really showed. Not just in the rack area, but also heavy "white'ing wear" from the cue ball paths on the side rails to the one-ball position.

The condo members will be disappointed if it shows that kind of wear within 1 or 2 years. The table gets about 25 hours of play a week but none of us are monster breakers, etc. We've already agreed that there won't be any jumping on the new cloth unless you put a spare piece of cloth under the cue ball.

So what's your experience? Is Simonis 860HR in Tournament Blue a durable choice?

Thanks.

You'll get several years out of it, maybe even more. Pool halls don't change their cloth every year, and ours uses Simonis, and usually 3 years or more before you see new cloth, and these are trables getting a lot of use...

I use simoinis at home and after 6 years I changed it only cause I got tired of the color, I could have gotten another 6 years out of it....

sammylane12
11-24-2012, 04:00 AM
At our local pool room (where I recover the tables) the owner has stopped using Simonis just because of the lack of durability. It is nice cloth but wears out faster than is economically practical. We have found that Championship Tour Edition, which is only slightly less expensive, lasts significantly longer and seems to play just as well according to all the good players around here.

fool4pool
11-24-2012, 09:23 AM
Hey Mr. Dorman,

We have two 9 footers at our senior center.
One has Championship which plays slower.
The other has Simonis which plays much quicker.

Insist that all players use the break pad for all games
except for One Pocket !

Hope that you can change some minds of your fellow players
to switch over to One Pocket or as some of us Old Timers call it
"Pocket Apiece" !

Noel

John Novak
11-24-2012, 11:32 AM
I've recommended to our condo board that we replace the existing cloth (unknown brand) with Simonis 860HR in Tournament Blue.

Since then, I've played at two pool rooms that had Simonis 860 (don't know if it was HR or not). It could be that the cloth was just old, but the wear really showed. Not just in the rack area, but also heavy "white'ing wear" from the cue ball paths on the side rails to the one-ball position.

The condo members will be disappointed if it shows that kind of wear within 1 or 2 years. The table gets about 25 hours of play a week but none of us are monster breakers, etc. We've already agreed that there won't be any jumping on the new cloth unless you put a spare piece of cloth under the cue ball.

So what's your experience? Is Simonis 860HR in Tournament Blue a durable choice?

Thanks.

Simonis 760 •Combed worsted wool and high thread count assure long lasting wear. Plays faster than 860. I played in a room that had this on 18 tables, lasted 4-5 years and still played great with a min of wear lines

Jaden
11-24-2012, 11:58 AM
Simonis 760 •Combed worsted wool and high thread count assure long lasting wear. Plays faster than 860. I played in a room that had this on 18 tables, lasted 4-5 years and still played great with a min of wear lines

I've had 760 on my table for about 5 years and while there are break lines and pressure marks, there are no little nap holes or anything like that.

Jaden

elvicash
11-24-2012, 12:02 PM
It is a great durable cloth. It is not iron it will show wear. It is an excellent choice for a pool room and will last a long time in a condo. I think you will like it.

3andstop
11-24-2012, 12:15 PM
I'm about ready to do my GC over. I play mostly straight pool and have very old 760 on it. Like you I'm not sure what to do.

I haven't pulled the trigger yet because I'm not sure which way to go either. 760 860 or the 860HR.

Someone told me the HR had a more slippery feel to it like it. The balls seemed to slide more.

Now I know this happens on brand new cloth and I can deal with it, but if the HR keeps this feel, I don't think I'll like the HR.

Hope someone can comment on that aspect of the HR as well.

KMRUNOUT
11-24-2012, 12:44 PM
My experience has been this:

Simonis 760: Very fast. Higher nylon count. Very durable. Not my favorite. It's just a bit too fast. A place near me put it on 8 footers. It plays good, but a little over-fast.

Simonis 860: My favorite playing cloth. Higher wool content (I believe 90/10 wool/nylon vs 70/30 for the 760). This cloth has a very slight "rough" feel to it when its new...it is definitely a bit "grippier" than the 860HR. Not at all slow, but certainly not super fast either. I think this is the ideal cloth for 9 ball. It lasts a long time, but develops white marks and lines more easily. It seems to not really affect play much, but it doesn't look nice.

Simonis 860HR: This cloth plays pretty good too. I understand that this has the same 70/30 wool/nylon blend that the 760 has, so it is indeed slipperier and faster than regular 860. Snookers pool hall in Providence RI redid the whole room in 860HR. It actually holds up really well against wear and ball marks. It isn't overly slippery...just a little...and obviously more so when its brand new. I think this might be the ideal solution. It doesn't play as fast as 760, but it definitely plays faster than 860.


Hope this helps!

KMRUNOUT

JuicyGirl
11-24-2012, 03:24 PM
I have regular billiard felt on my table, not Simonis. However, after 9 months of action in our house it started to get white streaks (everywhere). I cleaned it with the vacuum cleaner and I was shocked at how much crap was picked up. I also use the sticky tape rolls to pickup dirt and hair it helped tons. Point is I think the Simonis cloth should be cleanable too

3kushn
11-24-2012, 04:07 PM
Keep the cloth and balls clean and you should have years of use no matter 860 860HR or 760.
As far as slide is concerned it will subside with use.

I use Gorino M which is similar to Simonis 300 both are faster than 760 and I believe Gorino is a tad faster than 300.
Just my opinion. Both are very slippery when brand new but when broke in it calms down, although in 3C you want some slide. Without it many shots are simply not available.