PDA

View Full Version : mike segal


billf59
11-24-2012, 05:12 PM
does mike segal post on az forums if so under what name

Terry Ardeno
11-24-2012, 05:16 PM
does mike segal post on az forums if so under what name

No. Mike Sigel doesn't post here.
If he does it's under an alias.

David Segal does and he's a top class member here! :D

Pushout
11-24-2012, 05:18 PM
Not to my knowledge. You DO mean Mike Sigel, right??

Fatboy
11-24-2012, 05:26 PM
he is too busy running 200 & out to bother with AZB. :wink:

seven_7days
11-24-2012, 06:38 PM
No. Mike Sigel doesn't post here.
If he does it's under an alias.

David Segal does and he's a top class member here! :D
does he train with Steven Seagal?

jay helfert
11-24-2012, 07:16 PM
Mike Seagull was here just long enough to do a fly by! :grin:

George Fels
11-24-2012, 09:23 PM
...and stayed long enough to marry Barbara Hersey Seagull.

Maniac
11-24-2012, 09:28 PM
Didn't he sing with "Flock of Seagulls"???

Maniac

Johnnyt
11-24-2012, 09:48 PM
I always wonder if he pissed all that money away he made in the IPT. I knew Mike back in the day. He was a pretty smart guy when it came to money. But for some over 50 that hook-up with much younger women they lose everything. Johnnyt

GoBilliards
11-24-2012, 10:06 PM
I dont know what mike is doing now but rest assured he is doing it with a condecending tone.

cardiac kid
11-24-2012, 10:39 PM
Didn't he sing with "Flock of Seagulls"???

Maniac

Think he flew with Jonathan Livingstone Seagull instead! At least it's what Neil Diamond told me. Joni Mitchell said he was in Song to a Seagull. Mike was never much for a lot of hair (sic).

Lyn

ctyhntr
11-25-2012, 07:05 AM
You're not going to get a serious answer to your question. This thread is for the birds.

Run, flee.
And I ran, I ran so far away.
I just ran, I ran all night and day.
I couldn't get away.

cardiac kid
11-25-2012, 07:19 AM
You're not going to get a serious answer to your question. This thread is for the birds.

Run, flee.
And I ran, I ran so far away.
I just ran, I ran all night and day.
I couldn't get away.

Know Rene Sigel posted here for a while. Believe she is still in Florida. Mike is in Maryland last I heard. Doubt very highly Mike would post here. His ego would not allow the negative comments which are sure to come. Somewhat surprised CJ, Chris B, Dennis H and a few others still allow themselves to be bashed by our choir of experts. Talk about thick skins!

Lyn

Black-Balled
11-25-2012, 07:49 AM
I dont know what mike is doing now but rest assured he is doing it with a condecending tone.

no bet!!!!!!!!!!!

whitewolf
11-25-2012, 09:58 AM
does mike segal post on az forums if so under what name

Absolutely not. When I recently mentioned AZBilliards to him he said: "what's that?".

Mike is not that stupid to get on here and argue with a bunch of chumps.

jason
11-25-2012, 10:43 AM
No, this is a non-smoking forum.

cardiac kid
11-25-2012, 03:42 PM
Absolutely not. When I recently mentioned AZBilliards to him he said: "what's that?".

Mike is not that stupid to get on here and argue with a bunch of chumps.

Wolf,

I've known Mike for nearly forty years. Virtually since the day he walked into Ridge Billiards in Rochester and asked to clean tables for free table time. He knows exactly what AZ Billiards is and what type of information is posted. The fact he doesn't post does suggest he is not stupid. If I were in his position, I wouldn't post here either!

Lyn

ctyhntr
11-25-2012, 03:51 PM
I don't disagree. I just hope some can see past the level of negativity and disrespect from a vocal minority.

Know Rene Sigel posted here for a while. Believe she is still in Florida. Mike is in Maryland last I heard. Doubt very highly Mike would post here. His ego would not allow the negative comments which are sure to come. Somewhat surprised CJ, Chris B, Dennis H and a few others still allow themselves to be bashed by our choir of experts. Talk about thick skins!

Lyn

pt109
11-25-2012, 06:06 PM
Wolf,

I've known Mike for nearly forty years. Virtually since the day he walked into Ridge Billiards in Rochester and asked to clean tables for free table time. He knows exactly what AZ Billiards is and what type of information is posted. The fact he doesn't post does suggest he is not stupid. If I were in his position, I wouldn't post here either!

Lyn

Lyn, I've never thought it was wise for the top players to avoid posting
on AZ....just another long tradition of players not supporting their game.
They can mix it up in any good action room, it's no different on here.
At least Mike Sigel had a web presence...
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidepoolmag.com%2F201011%2F billiard-news%2Fbilliards-legend-mike-sigel-launches-official-web-site.html&ei=Z7-yUP2pEOKbyQGJsYHYAw&usg=AFQjCNHa6D6FABpxPaXttCfaM0h4pLkeug&sig2=JUKuhdeEv9n-ycEkrfcRnw

But he hasn't kept it up....maybe if he posted on AZ with a link, he'd get
a little more action.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikesigelbilliards.com%2F&ei=fLyyUOH1KKeZyAHK7IAY&usg=AFQjCNFvoyMQdPQ46jzvuVuD6fiSdJYxAA&sig2=T-hrT15ZT_p8ISXT1-Xi5Q

And I got a news flash for y'all...if you wanna get into a debate with
Captain Hook.....buy some back-up keyboards...;)

Ken_4fun
11-25-2012, 06:21 PM
I dont know what mike is doing now but rest assured he is doing it with a condecending tone.

I agree.

I wish the best for most pool players ...... some not so much.:rolleyes:

ken

seven_7days
11-25-2012, 07:34 PM
does mike segal post on az forums if so under what name

No. Mike Sigel doesn't post here.
If he does it's under an alias.

if mike sigel posts here under mike segal
...is it still an alias?

:scratchhead:

poolhustler
11-25-2012, 07:42 PM
He's smart not to post up here. Too many bashers and Haters.

cardiac kid
11-25-2012, 08:11 PM
Lyn, I've never thought it was wise for the top players to avoid posting
on AZ....just another long tradition of players not supporting their game.
They can mix it up in any good action room, it's no different on here.
At least Mike Sigel had a web presence...
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidepoolmag.com%2F201011%2F billiard-news%2Fbilliards-legend-mike-sigel-launches-official-web-site.html&ei=Z7-yUP2pEOKbyQGJsYHYAw&usg=AFQjCNHa6D6FABpxPaXttCfaM0h4pLkeug&sig2=JUKuhdeEv9n-ycEkrfcRnw

But he hasn't kept it up....maybe if he posted on AZ with a link, he'd get
a little more action.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikesigelbilliards.com%2F&ei=fLyyUOH1KKeZyAHK7IAY&usg=AFQjCNFvoyMQdPQ46jzvuVuD6fiSdJYxAA&sig2=T-hrT15ZT_p8ISXT1-Xi5Q

And I got a news flash for y'all...if you wanna get into a debate with
Captain Hook.....buy some back-up keyboards...;)

109,

Doubt very highly there is anyone out there in the entire pool community that has as much to offer our fellow Az'ers as Mike Sigel. His knowledge of the game, technical, physical and mental, is second to none. Whether he was the best ever, second best, fifth best whatever is not important. Mike is absolutely sure of his viewpoint. The lurkers and know-it-all's would have a field day at Mike's expense. I'm kind of glad he doesn't post. Some guy (or gal) hiding behind their keyboard spouting perceived pool knowledge would drive him nuts. Sometimes silence IS golden!

Lyn

pt109
11-25-2012, 09:52 PM
109,

Doubt very highly there is anyone out there in the entire pool community that has as much to offer our fellow Az'ers as Mike Sigel. His knowledge of the game, technical, physical and mental, is second to none. Whether he was the best ever, second best, fifth best whatever is not important. Mike is absolutely sure of his viewpoint. The lurkers and know-it-all's would have a field day at Mike's expense. I'm kind of glad he doesn't post. Some guy (or gal) hiding behind their keyboard spouting perceived pool knowledge would drive him nuts. Sometimes silence IS golden!

Lyn

I think Mike Sigel is one of the best things that ever happened to pool.
....and Efren would agree.
AZ has over 40,000 members and even more non-member regular viewers.
By my calculations, 99.83% of these readers are fine people and would
love to see Mike post on here....and Mike is known to perform well under
pressure, a lot more than that small minority can put him under.
So if you see Mike, Lyn, show him this post and the following clip...:smile:
https://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGQgh-RqQbXg&rct=j&sa=X&ei=veCyUKurIumWywHXmoHICA&ved=0CEcQuAIwBA&q=russell+peters+be+a+man&usg=AFQjCNEnXYiSmNqcGLbriJqf_1pXa50B1w

Terry Ardeno
11-25-2012, 10:03 PM
By my calculations, 99.83% of these readers are fine people and would
love to see Mike post on here



Professor PT,
That was funny! 99.83%, as opposed to 99.84% or, even worse, 99.82%!
You ought to box that number for the next few nights....

By the way, I agree with you that 99.8 something % here are fine people indeed.
That's why we stick around as lifers!:)

randyg
11-26-2012, 01:52 PM
Just left Champion Billiards in Frederick, Md. Had a great week teaching and just plain playing.

Mike has a personal friend fom Champions that keeps him "afloat" of all the happenings on AZ. That friend posts here once and a while.

randyg

Chopdoc
11-26-2012, 02:47 PM
Lyn, I've never thought it was wise for the top players to avoid posting
on AZ....just another long tradition of players not supporting their game.


Posting on AZB supports AZB. AZB is far from synonymous with pool and I would venture to say in fact the vast majority of the leading people on all ends of the sport do not post here.

Mike Sigel is one of the leading players of all time. He paid his dues in the sport and few people can claim to support the sport as much as any such caliber of champion.

Whether or not he posts here is irrelevant to probably just about anything.



.

pt109
11-26-2012, 03:05 PM
Posting on AZB supports AZB. AZB is far from synonymous with pool and I would venture to say in fact the vast majority of the leading people on all ends of the sport do not post here.

Mike Sigel is one of the leading players of all time. He paid his dues in the sport and few people can claim to support the sport as much as any such caliber of champion.

Whether or not he posts here is irrelevant to probably just about anything.



.

This game needs to take some lessons from golfers....
...they used to play for small money, also...
...but when they got their break, they were ready for it.
Lotta heroes at golf...
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CD0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.examiner.com%2Farticle%2Fthe-best-and-worst-professional-golfer-websites-the-world&ei=JbuyUPf8NIW6yAHj2IDABQ&usg=AFQjCNE_l0gONWUC7y25yGhFm6a6UNOkYg&sig2=JLqmt__FR_uxFwykJcP0SQ

KoolKat9Lives
11-26-2012, 03:23 PM
I think if Mike posted here, he'd post so many golden lines that every other poster would use one of them as a sig line. Think Schmidt's goat line - on steroids...

billf59
11-26-2012, 04:15 PM
what is the name and where is mike sigel current home pool room

randyg
11-26-2012, 04:28 PM
what is the name and where is mike sigel current home pool room

CHAMPION BILLIARDS
Frederick, Md.

randyg

EagleMan
11-26-2012, 04:31 PM
Lyn, I've never thought it was wise for the top players to avoid posting
on AZ....just another long tradition of players not supporting their game.
They can mix it up in any good action room, it's no different on here.
At least Mike Sigel had a web presence...
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.insidepoolmag.com%2F201011%2F billiard-news%2Fbilliards-legend-mike-sigel-launches-official-web-site.html&ei=Z7-yUP2pEOKbyQGJsYHYAw&usg=AFQjCNHa6D6FABpxPaXttCfaM0h4pLkeug&sig2=JUKuhdeEv9n-ycEkrfcRnw

But he hasn't kept it up....maybe if he posted on AZ with a link, he'd get
a little more action.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mikesigelbilliards.com%2F&ei=fLyyUOH1KKeZyAHK7IAY&usg=AFQjCNFvoyMQdPQ46jzvuVuD6fiSdJYxAA&sig2=T-hrT15ZT_p8ISXT1-Xi5Q

And I got a news flash for y'all...if you wanna get into a debate with
Captain Hook.....buy some back-up keyboards...;)

I agree! Generally, pro pool players have done a perfectly AWFUL job of marketing themselves and the game in general. I'm no sociologist but I suspect that the above is true due to the "lone wolf" nature of the game and the people who play it.

CJ obvioulsy has more of a "clue" about self-promotion (in the best sense) than the vast majority of the other pros.

He has some of the most posted to threads recently and clearly, not everyone agrees with everything he says. And just as clearly, that is FINE with CJ.

Sure....he's got product to sell. But so too does every other pool pro alive....THEMSELVES AND THE GAME OF POOL!

(-:

EagleMan

richiebalto
11-26-2012, 06:35 PM
I think Mike Sigel is one of the best things that ever happened to pool.
....and Efren would agree.
AZ has over 40,000 members and even more non-member regular viewers.
By my calculations, 99.83% of these readers are fine people and would
love to see Mike post on here....and Mike is known to perform well under
pressure, a lot more than that small minority can put him under.
So if you see Mike, Lyn, show him this post and the following clip...:smile:
https://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGQgh-RqQbXg&rct=j&sa=X&ei=veCyUKurIumWywHXmoHICA&ved=0CEcQuAIwBA&q=russell+peters+be+a+man&usg=AFQjCNEnXYiSmNqcGLbriJqf_1pXa50B1w

I agree PT, Sigel is one of a very few all around greatest pool players, and as we know he played super JAM up for the money!

Chopdoc
11-26-2012, 08:04 PM
This game needs to take some lessons from golfers....
...they used to play for small money, also...
...but when they got their break, they were ready for it.
Lotta heroes at golf...
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CD0QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.examiner.com%2Farticle%2Fthe-best-and-worst-professional-golfer-websites-the-world&ei=JbuyUPf8NIW6yAHj2IDABQ&usg=AFQjCNE_l0gONWUC7y25yGhFm6a6UNOkYg&sig2=JLqmt__FR_uxFwykJcP0SQ


What forum does Tiger post on?


.

pt109
11-26-2012, 09:46 PM
What forum does Tiger post on?


.

Golf is a lot richer than pool......Tiger has his own forum.
http://web.tigerwoods.com/video/20946851
http://forums.prospero.com/tigerwoods
http://web.tigerwoods.com/clubTiger/hangout

Chopdoc
11-26-2012, 10:33 PM
Golf is a lot richer than pool......Tiger has his own forum.
http://web.tigerwoods.com/video/20946851
http://forums.prospero.com/tigerwoods
http://web.tigerwoods.com/clubTiger/hangout


Again...what forums does he post on?


Of course he owns his own forum. He owns numerous such things. He simply owns things. That is what wealth and fame brings.

As far as the interview, I was told by a writer friend of mine that actually interviewed Tiger Woods that he was instructed what questions to ask Tiger.

Indeed, Golf is much richer....and much more separated from the masses than one might wish to think.

Is this meant to represent somehow that Mr Woods supports his sport "better" than Mr Sigel represents his?

Somehow I don't see it that way.

Mr Woods can simply afford excellent PR representation, nothing more....and this in the face of serious character flaws.

Mr Sigel is an excellent representative of his sport IMHO. Whether or not he posts on any forum or can afford a PR campaign that creates his own is in fact irrelevant.

How is he that? Play him and find out. Excellence in cue sports. That's it. That's what matters.

BCA HOF member. Won more major tournaments than most can hope to even compete in. Worked in the JOSS shop and went on to make his own custom pool cues. Does Tiger make clubs? With his own Hands?

The man played great pool, AFAIK still does. Knock him because he does not post in a forum? That makes me wonder what current pool players really are. When he "made it" there was no such thing as AZB. He not only pre-dates such a thing but such a thing owes it's entire existence to people such as him.





.

EagleMan
11-26-2012, 10:46 PM
Golf is a lot richer than pool......Tiger has his own forum.
http://web.tigerwoods.com/video/20946851
http://forums.prospero.com/tigerwoods
http://web.tigerwoods.com/clubTiger/hangout

And as recently as 2011 after his non-prize money income PLUNGED from prior years...all the way down to $64 million (according to Sports Illustrated) he still earns VASTLY more in a week than all the prize money in pro billiards events COMBINED!

He doesn't need a stinking forum...but as you point out, he has them and sits down to answer fan FAQs on video. And he has likely been villified more massively on a worldwide basis than any other professional athlete in history.

Any pro who doesn't post here because they're afraid of taking some flak...and yet who whines about the decline in the popularity of cue sports...is pretty pathetic IMHO.

In fact, I would bet that the ratio of AZ forum members who would be grateful for pro posts relative to the those who would flame them has to be 100-1...if not a MUCH higher ratio.

(-:

PS: Of course, the above comment would not apply to certain pros...we all know which ones...who might come on here posting flame like they know it ALL and the rest of us are idiots! (-:

pt109
11-26-2012, 11:12 PM
[COLOR="Black"

The man played great pool, AFAIK still does. Knock him because he does not post in a forum? That makes me wonder what current pool players really are. When he "made it" there was no such thing as AZB. He not only pre-dates such a thing but such a thing owes it's entire existence to people such as him.
.[/COLOR]

Not sure where the 'knocker' appellation is coming from, Doc.
It's true I'm bugging him about joining...I don't think Mike himself would
consider that knocking....and I did say that he was one of the best things
that ever happened to pool.
I've encouraged a few people to join...is there a quota I've surpassed?

Chopdoc
11-27-2012, 05:00 AM
Not sure where the 'knocker' appellation is coming from, Doc.
It's true I'm bugging him about joining...I don't think Mike himself would
consider that knocking....and I did say that he was one of the best things
that ever happened to pool.
I've encouraged a few people to join...is there a quota I've surpassed?


I would really dig it if he joined. He has been one of my favorite players for a long time.

Maybe I overreacted, I don't know. The thread seems to have collected some negative vibes about the man...and that bugs me I guess.




.

JAM
11-27-2012, 05:02 AM
I agree PT, Sigel is one of a very few all around greatest pool players, and as we know he played super JAM up for the money!

Yeah, but he still beats me! :grin-square:

JB Cases
11-27-2012, 07:29 AM
I think Mike Sigel is one of the best things that ever happened to pool.
....and Efren would agree.
AZ has over 40,000 members and even more non-member regular viewers.
By my calculations, 99.83% of these readers are fine people and would
love to see Mike post on here....and Mike is known to perform well under
pressure, a lot more than that small minority can put him under.
So if you see Mike, Lyn, show him this post and the following clip...:smile:
https://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DGQgh-RqQbXg&rct=j&sa=X&ei=veCyUKurIumWywHXmoHICA&ved=0CEcQuAIwBA&q=russell+peters+be+a+man&usg=AFQjCNEnXYiSmNqcGLbriJqf_1pXa50B1w

The problem is that the other .17% would be more than enough to drive Mike away within a few days.

Mike could not handle it here. This is not a forum that tolerates the type of personality that Mike has. He does have a lot to offer but I guarantee you he would not last a week. Not a week and I might give out odds on the money on that.

What I honestly wish could happen is if AZB would implement the same type of thing Jim Brennan does with the Ask the Cue maker section on his site. What happens there is that a thread is opened for questions and then the cue maker will come in and answer all the questions and then the thread will be closed. It would be great if this were done here with professional players, a moderated question/answer session that's protected from harassment.

What AZB would end up with would be a really great section with lots of great content straight from the pros themselves. We would get our fix and the trouble makers could be censored out so that what remains is good quality information that is timeless.

JAM
11-27-2012, 07:35 AM
The problem is that the other .17% would be more than enough to drive Mike away within a few days.

Mike could not handle it here. This is not a forum that tolerates the type of personality that Mike has. He does have a lot to offer but I guarantee you he would not last a week. Not a week and I might give out odds on the money on that.

What I honestly wish could happen is if AZB would implement the same type of thing Jim Brennan does with the Ask the Cue maker section on his site. What happens there is that a thread is opened for questions and then the cue maker will come in and answer all the questions and then the thread will be closed. It would be great if this were done here with professional players, a moderated question/answer session that's protected from harassment.

What AZB would end up with would be a really great section with lots of great content straight from the pros themselves. We would get our fix and the trouble makers could be censored out so that what remains is good quality information that is timeless.

That is actually a great idea. :smile:

Neil
11-27-2012, 07:50 AM
The problem is that the other .17% would be more than enough to drive Mike away within a few days.

Mike could not handle it here. This is not a forum that tolerates the type of personality that Mike has. He does have a lot to offer but I guarantee you he would not last a week. Not a week and I might give out odds on the money on that.

What I honestly wish could happen is if AZB would implement the same type of thing Jim Brennan does with the Ask the Cue maker section on his site. What happens there is that a thread is opened for questions and then the cue maker will come in and answer all the questions and then the thread will be closed. It would be great if this were done here with professional players, a moderated question/answer session that's protected from harassment.

What AZB would end up with would be a really great section with lots of great content straight from the pros themselves. We would get our fix and the trouble makers could be censored out so that what remains is good quality information that is timeless.

In other words, you just want to be able to "rub elbows" with the pros. You don't really care if the info they give out is correct or not, you just want to hear them speak. Maybe you could start an online fan club for some of them, since you don't seem to want a discussion forum.

JAM
11-27-2012, 07:57 AM
In other words, you just want to be able to "rub elbows" with the pros. You don't really care if the info they give out is correct or not, you just want to hear them speak. Maybe you could start an online fan club for some of them, since you don't seem to want a discussion forum.

Neil, I think what John was saying is that they could post for a short duration and then the thread would close. This would prohibit the unidentified trolls and banned members posting from adding their 2 cents.

Truth be told, Neil, I believe that just because a pool player or pro player is good at what they do, it does not mean they can teach what they do. That's a different skill set.

Look at Keith's side-arm stroke. Well, it works for him, but if somebody were learning from scratch, this would not be a fundamental to teach. One should learn the basic fundamentals on how to address a ball, stance, stroke, aim, and the whole 9 yards.

Because this forum has erupted into a playground for a few bad apples who like to hit-and-run with their mean-spirited posts, John's idea holds merit.

But bottom line is just because a player is a so-called pro, it doesn't mean he can disseminate proper instruction to all. What works for some may not work for others. Pool is such an individual skill set. Once you acquire the mechanical skills, the rest is the power of positive thinking. It's a complicated sport for sure! :)

whitewolf
11-27-2012, 08:00 AM
I agree PT, Sigel is one of a very few all around greatest pool players, and as we know he played super JAM up for the money!

This reminds me of what Barry Berhman had to say about Sigel in this 2012 US Open.

Barry was talking it up in the introduction of Efren as the best pool player on the planet. Efren was sitting stoically in his chair, apparently ignoring all of this BS being spouted. Barry told of Houston in 1985 when Efren offered Mike Sigel the 7 ball, and that after Mike refused Efren turned to one of his buddies and said in his native tongue: "I just wanted to make that big baby cry." Barry, laughing his a$$ off, turned to Efren to elicit a smile, but Efren was just looking off into the stars, completely ignoring this fool.

I haven't decided whether or not to tell Mike this, as I am sure he has heard this a million times.

whitewolf
11-27-2012, 08:10 AM
What I honestly wish could happen is if AZB would implement the same type of thing Jim Brennan does with the Ask the Cue maker section on his site. What happens there is that a thread is opened for questions and then the cue maker will come in and answer all the questions and then the thread will be closed. It would be great if this were done here with professional players, a moderated question/answer session that's protected from harassment.

What AZB would end up with would be a really great section with lots of great content straight from the pros themselves. We would get our fix and the trouble makers could be censored out so that what remains is good quality information that is timeless.

Fortunately, right now I can ask Mike any pool questions I want to as he is stationed in the Frederick Champions. Then, having posted what he said a few times on this forum, the AZ responses are typically so idiotic that I don't bother to post them any more.

After the way AZ treats professional pool players, it doesn't even deserve this 'great section' you are talking about. And go ask yourself, why do pros want to even bother posting stuff on here for free (with a few exceptions) when they should be getting paid for lessons?

JB, you are living in a dream world buddy.

JB Cases
11-27-2012, 08:30 AM
In other words, you just want to be able to "rub elbows" with the pros. You don't really care if the info they give out is correct or not, you just want to hear them speak. Maybe you could start an online fan club for some of them, since you don't seem to want a discussion forum.

Yes, kind of like when you go to lecture. You are there to hear the speaker speak and answer questions, not to get into a debate with him. If you disagree that strongly with anything that is said then simply start a thread to discuss the topic.

But no, the idea is not to rub elbows, it's to have a simple question and answer session without hostility.

For what it's worth Neil I personally have gotten to rub elbows with professional players for the past twenty years. I am not some starry eyed groupie as you seem to want to make me out to be. But what I do know with 100% accuracy is that the professional players have experiences and insights that regular players don't have. I honestly don't care how good you are you are not a Mike Sigel, not a Buddy Hall and not a CJ Wiley. You might be able to draw your ball with the best of them but you did not run around the country snapping off pro events, you did not gamble for days against the best in the world, you haven't been heralded as the best player in the country and the world for a day, or a week or a year. They have. For that reason alone they have earned the right to be treated with some respect and allowed to speak unmolested about how to play pool.

If they are wrong such as when Sigel claims throw doesn't exist then you don't NEED to confront him about it right then. Just start a new thread and discuss it. But in the Q&A you could make that your question. Such as for example, Mr. Sigel in the 1998 September issue of Billiards Digest you claimed that throw does not exist. It's been proven that it does but perhaps you could clarify for us what you meant by your statement?

And see what he says. Maybe the answer might surprise you.

pt109
11-27-2012, 09:02 AM
Look at Keith's side-arm stroke. Well, it works for him, but if somebody were learning from scratch, this would not be a fundamental to teach. One should learn the basic fundamentals on how to address a ball, stance, stroke, aim, and the whole 9 yards.


Well....here's a unusual situation, I'm gonna stick up for Keith against Jam.

The proof of any style is how one delivers the cue to the cue-ball.
When people tell me how unorthodox Keith is ( there were lots more in
history) I tell them to watch the cue between the bridge hand and the
cue-ball. That area tells you everything you need to know about how well
a player hits a ball.
It does not matter how you make that happen.

Keith would be a good teacher....he's got empathy...that's the main
reason people like to see him in action.
There are many that would rather watch Keith miscue than some clone
ran a rack out.

We have many mutual friends, but I've never even talked to Keith....
...so I think I have a pretty good objective appraisal.

cardiac kid
11-27-2012, 09:16 AM
Well....here's a unusual situation, I'm gonna stick up for Keith against Jam.

The proof of any style is how one delivers the cue to the cue-ball.
When people tell me how unorthodox Keith is ( there were lots more in
history) I tell them to watch the cue between the bridge hand and the
cue-ball. That area tells you everything you need to know about how well
a player hits a ball.
It does not matter how you make that happen.

Keith would be a good teacher....he's got empathy...that's the main
reason people like to see him in action.
There are many that would rather watch Keith miscue than some clone
ran a rack out.

We have many mutual friends, but I've never even talked to Keith....
...so I think I have a pretty good objective appraisal.

PT,

Interesting observation. The difference in stroke between Keith, Mike and Allen Hopkins is as wide as possible in the pool world. Yet all three are some of the best players ever. I've tried to make that point for years. You hit it right on the head! Thanks.

Lyn

pt109
11-27-2012, 09:26 AM
PT,

Interesting observation. The difference in stroke between Keith, Mike and Allen Hopkins is as wide as possible in the pool world. Yet all three are some of the best players ever. I've tried to make that point for years. You hit it right on the head! Thanks.

Lyn

You know the ones that mess me up, Lyn?
...players like Butamante...his stroke looks like he's trying to shake
something off his cue, it's crooked as hell.
I call them 'bees'....aerodynamically, it looks like a bee can't fly....
...but it flies very well.

And Francisco Bustamante is a very good player.

JAM
11-27-2012, 09:33 AM
Well....here's a unusual situation, I'm gonna stick up for Keith against Jam.

The proof of any style is how one delivers the cue to the cue-ball.
When people tell me how unorthodox Keith is ( there were lots more in
history) I tell them to watch the cue between the bridge hand and the
cue-ball. That area tells you everything you need to know about how well
a player hits a ball.
It does not matter how you make that happen.

Keith would be a good teacher....he's got empathy...that's the main
reason people like to see him in action.
There are many that would rather watch Keith miscue than some clone
ran a rack out.

We have many mutual friends, but I've never even talked to Keith....
...so I think I have a pretty good objective appraisal.


That is interesting for sure. You know, the owner of Black Boar Cues, Tony, told Keith one time that he had a "double fulcrum" stroke. He said Efren had it too. I wonder if the players who have the double fulcrum in their stroke succeed.

Can you explain that one? :p

pt109
11-27-2012, 09:47 AM
That is interesting for sure. You know, the owner of Black Boar Cues, Tony, told Keith one time that he had a "double fulcrum" stroke. He said Efren had it too. I wonder if the players who have the double fulcrum in their stroke succeed.

Can you explain that one? :p

To me, JAM, what your arm and wrist and fingers, et al, doesn't matter.
I think that any good player, regardless of his approach, does the same
thing when in dead stroke.
If you're AWARE of your arm or stance, you're gonna play under your
capability.....dead stroke is hitting the cue-ball with the CUE...your
BODY is subservient to this action.

It sounds like a Zen riddle, but I've had this in my notes since a teenager..
...a great stroke is like a tail wagging a dog...:confused:

Neil
11-27-2012, 10:06 AM
Yes, kind of like when you go to lecture. You are there to hear the speaker speak and answer questions, not to get into a debate with him. If you disagree that strongly with anything that is said then simply start a thread to discuss the topic.

But no, the idea is not to rub elbows, it's to have a simple question and answer session without hostility.

For what it's worth Neil I personally have gotten to rub elbows with professional players for the past twenty years. I am not some starry eyed groupie as you seem to want to make me out to be. But what I do know with 100% accuracy is that the professional players have experiences and insights that regular players don't have. I honestly don't care how good you are you are not a Mike Sigel, not a Buddy Hall and not a CJ Wiley. You might be able to draw your ball with the best of them but you did not run around the country snapping off pro events, you did not gamble for days against the best in the world, you haven't been heralded as the best player in the country and the world for a day, or a week or a year. They have. For that reason alone they have earned the right to be treated with some respect and allowed to speak unmolested about how to play pool.

If they are wrong such as when Sigel claims throw doesn't exist then you don't NEED to confront him about it right then. Just start a new thread and discuss it. But in the Q&A you could make that your question. Such as for example, Mr. Sigel in the 1998 September issue of Billiards Digest you claimed that throw does not exist. It's been proven that it does but perhaps you could clarify for us what you meant by your statement?

And see what he says. Maybe the answer might surprise you.

The problem, John, is that this is not a "lecture" place, it is a forum. Now, let's use your example of Sigel saying there is no throw. Sigel started the thread, so people will naturally read it to see what he has to say. He obviously said something totally wrong, and your contention is to let it go. Thereby, many that don't know better themselves will forever be saying that there is no throw, just because Mike said it. If one were to start another thread about the subject, odds are it might not even be read by many that read Mike's thread because the person is a "nobody". So, the problem persists. However, if it is addressed right away in the discussion forum, then it can be addressed by both "sides" for the benefit of everyone reading the thread.

In any case, you already have the section you want. It's called "ask the pro's". Go look at it and see how much traffic it gets.

One more thing John, you say they have earned the respect because they have played at the top. I disagree. They have earned the respect as players, and that is all. Just because they can play great, does not necessarily equate to being able to explain to others what they are doing, and how you can do it too. Teaching and playing are as far removed from each other as making a lot of money playing pool, and having enough sense to know what to do with that money. Would you go to , oh, just for example that everyone can understand, let's say Cliff Joyner for financial advice? He sure knew how to make money playing pool. To me, it's the same thing.

JAM
11-27-2012, 10:08 AM
...In any case, you already have the section you want. It's called "ask the pro's". Go look at it and see how much traffic it gets.

Ain't that the truth! :embarrassed2:

JB Cases
11-27-2012, 10:26 AM
The problem, John, is that this is not a "lecture" place, it is a forum. Now, let's use your example of Sigel saying there is no throw. Sigel started the thread, so people will naturally read it to see what he has to say. He obviously said something totally wrong, and your contention is to let it go. Thereby, many that don't know better themselves will forever be saying that there is no throw, just because Mike said it. If one were to start another thread about the subject, odds are it might not even be read by many that read Mike's thread because the person is a "nobody". So, the problem persists. However, if it is addressed right away in the discussion forum, then it can be addressed by both "sides" for the benefit of everyone reading the thread.

In any case, you already have the section you want. It's called "ask the pro's". Go look at it and see how much traffic it gets.

Ok Neil, you are fully entitled to think what you want. And you obviously have already figured out what readers will think and do in any given situation. For me I think people won't read Sigel's view on throw and say ok that's it, done with the forum I have the answer now. I tend to think that they would read it and perhaps go looking a little more, maybe find some discussions and generally learn about throw.

Did I say my contention is to let anything go? I said, and I should not have to repeat this, that you should start a NEW thread to discuss ANYTHING you disagree with. Title it "Mike Sigel is WRONG" if you want and discuss to your heart's content. But IN the question/answer session you ask, he answers, that's that. This format works PERFECTLY in other venues and other forums.

I am fully aware of the current the ask the pros section. I think it needs to converted to the style I proposed and then I believe it would get a ton of traffic. As well the threads would all be informative and entertaining and numerous.

Then any pros who WANTED to hang out afterwards and become more active members could do that for as long as they could stand it. I am NOT saying that pros have free reign to be impolite. I am saying that they at least deserve some measure of respect for their status and at least deserve to be approached with civility. Let them be the ones to ruin it and not us.

justadub
11-27-2012, 10:41 AM
Ok Neil, you are fully entitled to think what you want. And you obviously have already figured out what readers will think and do in any given situation. For me I think people won't read Sigel's view on throw and say ok that's it, done with the forum I have the answer now. I tend to think that they would read it and perhaps go looking a little more, maybe find some discussions and generally learn about throw.

Did I say my contention is to let anything go? I said, and I should not have to repeat this, that you should start a NEW thread to discuss ANYTHING you disagree with. Title it "Mike Sigel is WRONG" if you want and discuss to your heart's content. But IN the question/answer session you ask, he answers, that's that. This format works PERFECTLY in other venues and other forums.

I am fully aware of the current the ask the pros section. I think it needs to converted to the style I proposed and then I believe it would get a ton of traffic. As well the threads would all be informative and entertaining and numerous.

Then any pros who WANTED to hang out afterwards and become more active members could do that for as long as they could stand it. I am NOT saying that pros have free reign to be impolite. I am saying that they at least deserve some measure of respect for their status and at least deserve to be approached with civility. Let them be the ones to ruin it and not us.

John, I think what you propose is an OUTSTANDING idea! :clapping::clapping:

It would be great to have a way to interact with these folks, in an environment where they dont have to brave facing the foolishness that undoubtedly would follow. I mean, why would any of them bother taking the time to hang out here, the way they would be treated? Certainly the offenders would be a very small percentage of the greater AZB population, but sadly they would be enough to drive many folks away. Sigh.

And you're right, perhaps some of them might enjoy it enough to participate in the open, general forum.

I hope you propose this to ownership. If they want to gauge support for such a sub-forum, just let us know.

pt109
11-27-2012, 10:54 AM
The problem, John, is that this is not a "lecture" place, it is a forum. Now, let's use your example of Sigel saying there is no throw. Sigel started the thread, so people will naturally read it to see what he has to say. He obviously said something totally wrong, and your contention is to let it go. Thereby, many that don't know better themselves will forever be saying that there is no throw, just because Mike said it. If one were to start another thread about the subject, odds are it might not even be read by many that read Mike's thread because the person is a "nobody". So, the problem persists. However, if it is addressed right away in the discussion forum, then it can be addressed by both "sides" for the benefit of everyone reading the thread.

In any case, you already have the section you want. It's called "ask the pro's". Go look at it and see how much traffic it gets.

I like this post.
AZ is a great place for SHARING ideas...'INFALLIBILITY' is not accepted.
...and players, no matter how good they play, can learn something here.
That's a reason some coaches can make a living...they may have a point
of view that the one hitting the ball can't possibly have.

..and to JB..
Pontificating by a top player may result in a very narrow point of view.
A good discussion is 'examination by argument'.

Let AZ be fertile ground....sure' there's going to be lots of crap.....
...fertilizer, natural or chemical, looks and smells disgusting....but
beautiful flowers and nutritious foods grow from this.
...sure there are weeds also, that's up to each poster to stay on top of.
(don't tell JAM that I ended a sentence with a preposition):eek:

JB Cases
11-27-2012, 10:54 AM
Fortunately, right now I can ask Mike any pool questions I want to as he is stationed in the Frederick Champions. Then, having posted what he said a few times on this forum, the AZ responses are typically so idiotic that I don't bother to post them any more.

After the way AZ treats professional pool players, it doesn't even deserve this 'great section' you are talking about. And go ask yourself, why do pros want to even bother posting stuff on here for free (with a few exceptions) when they should be getting paid for lessons?

JB, you are living in a dream world buddy.

It's a time honored sales technique to give away a little bit for free to whet the appetite. Many instructors here use this technique often and it pays off for them.

I do agree with those who say that any professional pool player who is looking to improve their visibility should participate with the fans. And in fact a lot of the pros do participate on Facebook and not here. With FB they can self-moderate and simply cut off anyone who gets out of line. Here they are at the mercy of the mods and we all know how that goes sometimes.

Yes, I do live part time in a dream world. I'd like to be able to move there full time.

JB Cases
11-27-2012, 10:58 AM
I like this post.
AZ is a great place for SHARING ideas...'INFALLIBILITY' is not accepted.
...and players, no matter how good they play, can learn something here.
That's a reason some coaches can make a living...they may have a point
of view that the one hitting the ball can't possibly have.

..and to JB..
Pontificating by a top player may result in a very narrow point of view.
A good discussion is 'examination by argument'.

Let AZ be fertile ground....sure' there's going to be lots of crap.....
...fertilizer, natural or chemical, looks and smells disgusting....but
beautiful flowers and nutritious foods grow from this.
...sure there are weeds also, that's up to each poster to stay on top of.
(don't tell JAM that I ended a sentence with a preposition):eek:

AZ IS a fertile ground. Just look at the amount of BS that is regularly spread around :-)

Ok let me prove to you that this works.

Remember a couple months ago when Justin had a few pros on TAR and he asked for questions to be sent in so he could ask them during the podcast?

What happened?

Questions were sent in, Justin asked them, the pros answered and EVERYONE enjoyed it. What else happened?

Some of the answers the pros gave in some of the podcasts resulted in EPIC discussions on AZB.

pt109
11-27-2012, 11:13 AM
I would really dig it if he joined. He has been one of my favorite players for a long time.

Maybe I overreacted, I don't know. The thread seems to have collected some negative vibes about the man...and that bugs me I guess.




.

It's all good, Doc....it's a pleasure to have you posting on AZ.
...you can not only play....
.....you probably have more degrees than a thermometer.
I always read your posts

Chopdoc
11-27-2012, 11:52 AM
It's all good, Doc....it's a pleasure to have you posting on AZ.
...you can not only play....
.....you probably have more degrees than a thermometer.
I always read your posts

You must have a short thermometer. :grin:



I used to play....now I just try to play. :wink:


Thanks for the props. :smile:



.